[=Context and Authors Note: This is regarding a social worker Felix Ngole behing fired from a University for posts regarding gay marriage. The following conversation also has other fundie qoutes, is trimmed save for the most stand outish and relevant ones.=]
Martin: Christians cannot trust judges to act in a fair way toward them. We’ve seen a number of judgements like this that demonstrate the bigotry of the judiciary. It is perfectly OK, apparently, for social workers to apply their beliefs as long as they coincide with this judges beliefs.
Perfect Love casts out fear: you don't speak for Christians, Martin, you only speak for conservative evangelicals - a tiny proportion of those who hold the title of Christian. It is you who demonstrates bigotry in this case, not the judge. How could this man ever be a social worker when he holds and proclaims views that gay people are not entitled to equality??
Snoring: No most Christians think same sex sexual relationships are a sin I used to think it wasn't a sin until May. Then Jesu audiably told me it is a sin and marriage is only for one man and one woman. Same sex attracted people need to serve the Lord and be celebrated is also what Jesus told me as per Paul's teachings. Christians trust God not man.
Sandi Luckins: Because he recognizes that there is something much more important to the homosexual - a relationship with Jesus. And, just because we care to see them in a relationship with Jesus, does not mean that we don't want them working, etc. We just want to see them on their way to Heaven.
2 Peter 2:18 For, speaking loud boasts of folly, they entice by sensual passions of the flesh those who are barely escaping from those who live in error. 19 They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves[h] of corruption. For whatever overcomes a person, to that he is enslaved. As far as equality, we are trying to make them equal with us - forgiven.
Perfect Love casts out fear: get over yourself, Sandi. Homosexuals don't have the monopoly on sensual passions of the flesh and heterosexuals don't have the monopoly on forgiveness. We are already all equal in the sight of God.
Mark Jones: OK, so when scripture is brought into play, the best you have is “get over yourself”? Let me ask you one question, can you show me just one verse in the Bible that affirms the LGBT lifestyle? But, the verse you choose cannot contradict scripture elsewhere.
Sandi Luckins: thank you :)
Perfect Love casts out fear: we aren't discussing "lifestyle" here, we are discussing one man's right (or not) to discriminate about another's sexuality whilst claiming to be a fit person to work as a social worker, where his views will almost certainly cause uncomfortable situations in his chosen career. How could he make the necessary compromises to his beliefs if he were to be assigned as a case worker to a gay couple with children, for example? He couldn't and wouldn't. I actually do believe that conservative Christians should have the right to refuse to bake a cake for a same-sex wedding or let their B&B to a gay couple - I have no problem with that - it should be their choice with whom they do business. Social work is a different beast - it is about people, not business - and there is no room for discrimination.
Mark Jones: Actually we are discussing lifestyle here. See Ngole raised that he stands by a Biblical worldview, something that any true Christian should do. And was kicked off his course for the acquiescing to the demands of the minority but popular culture. Having a different opinion is not discrimination, however being removed from a course of a study because of religious beliefs is discrimination, and religion is a protected characteristic in the Equality Act. So it is actually Ngole who has suffered discrimination here. But that reality will be missed because he is a Christian and the subject is the LGBT lifestyle.
Perfect Love casts out fear: it isn't a religious belief - it is a personal belief. I am a Christian and I don't hold the belief that one can criticise another for their born sexuality.
Mark Jones: Actually in terms of the legalities it is a religious belief. And you may believe what you choose to believe, that doesn’t mean it’s Biblical, right, or even true.
Perfect Love casts out Fear: that goes for Martin and Sandi as well as me.
Mark Jones: It does yes, however they are on the right side of God here ... you, are not.
Joan Martin: And many homosexuals who remain celebate will experience Heaven
Sandi Luckins: No. They will be Christians plagued by the sin of s/s attraction. Christians do not identify themselves as sin. What a slap in the face to Christ. See my next comment to you, please.
Mark Jones: Sorry, but Ngole actually held to Biblical beliefs. As is Martin here, so if we’re bigoted that means God’s word is bigoted. Is that what your saying “perfect love casts out fear?”
Perfect Love casts out fear: I'm a God believing Christian who does not accept the inerrancy of the Bible. I am guided primarily by the prompting of the Holy Spirit in my life rather than documents written 2000 years ago in a different society and context and translated (often badly) by mere humans. As has been said many times on Disqus, subjects such as slavery, polygamy and male domination are treated as normal and acceptable in the Bible passages but are now considered out of time and context by Christians and non-Christians alike. Yes, God's Word is perfect and unchanging - just be careful, though, that you are listening to that Word and not the "words" of flawed human beings.
Mark Jones: If you don’t accept inerrancy then you’re really not a God believing Christian. Because the Bible which is breathed out by the Holy Spirit (the one you claim guides you) states such, quite clearly. But to clarify polygamy is never condoned in scripture, it is recorded ... because the Bible records history. I listen to God, not people, this clearly is not the case for you in reality.
Perfect Love casts out Fear: polygamy isn't condemned in scriptrure - not anywhere. Hence,by definition, it is condoned. I accept God's inerrancy but not men's and definitely not yours.
Mark Jones: Actually we’re told in scripture that marriage is to between one man and one woman, therefor polygamy is not condoned as it does meet the terms God lays out for marriage in scripture. And just to correct you, you don’t accept God's inerrancy, because God’s inerrancy is His word. So if you don’t trust the Bible you don’t trust God. Therefore you are not a true believer.
Mark Jones, Premier Christianity 6 Comments
[10/28/2017 11:22:14 PM]
Fundie Index: 1