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[Transcript:MALE FANTASY .THEFT. (men cannot be women.)not women)]
14 comments
Honestly, the more I see/read TERF screeds like this bullshit, the less seriously I take them. Like, OK, they legit hate trans people and their trolling, insults, campaigning, joining forces with far-right etc... DOES have serious consequences in the real world.
And then they do cringe shit like this. Or the time they were discussing spirituality and it ended with one of them saying that demons she summons always eat all her ice cream: https://np.reddit.com/r/GenderCritical/comments/56zcop/goddess_focused_spirituality/d8pbbcp/ . Or all the threads where they say they "always know" whether a woman is trans or not, because they give off "male energy". Like, that's legit some leviathan-guy level insanity. And then I just stop taking them seriously. It's simply getting impossible at this point.
Some of the second-wave feminists had a revolutionary idea - that there's no such thing as gender, as gender is an entirely social construct created by the patriarchy, and that women and men were inherently identical beyond superficial physical differences. If this were true, then treating people as a second-class citizen for no reason other than superficial physical traits which they have no control over is a form of bullying... except worse because it's massively organized and there's no higher authority to put a stop to it. Well, more or less, as there were a lot of different takes on that general idea, but this one's mine.
Transgender people were seen by them as the ultimate expression of the patriarchy, the ultimate enforcement of gender norms. And they weren't entirely wrong at the time, as in order to be allowed to transition one had to prove that they're more stereotypically feminine than most women (or more stereotypically masculine than most men in the then-rarer case of transmen). And when trans people tried to join feminist spaces, they were seen as a toxic encroachment of the patriarchy's gender enforcement, which would have been largely true if their ideas were correct. Ironically, the anti-feminists of the day saw transgender people as the ultimate expression of feminism, as to them they represented the ultimate breakdown of gender norms.
In the end, it turned out to be wrong. Advances in psychology and neurology have pretty conclusively proved that gender is a real thing, though it also doesn't work the way most anti-feminists think it does. TERF-ism is a (hopefully fading) remnant of that once-revolutionary but now dangerous and obsolete way of thinking.
(By "now dangerous", I mean dangerous to feminism. It's always been dangerous to trans people.)
How the hell is identifying as a woman identity theft? Is it hurting anyone? Are they using your credit cards and taking out loans in your name? And as to the lipstick comment, I know a transwoman that despises makeup (though she doesn't mind my wearing it).
You're the one falling to stereotypes. Piss off!
I understand where some of this nonsense comes from, I think. It's women who say "Dammit, I put up with all that bullying and exclude-the-stinky-girls shit in my youth, and here is one of the bullies who now wants to claim womanhood without having gone through the decades of discrimination that we have had. They haven't gone through the initiation and that's not fair." Am I completely wrong about that, or is that thought part of the reason that women cannot fully accept trans women?
Another possible aspect: women perhaps don't feel as free to talk about men in the presence of a trans woman. And any transgender person brings the thought of sexuality into discussions that really have an entirely different focus.
@Kanna: Mostly. I'm not sure about today, but during the height of the second wave, among the type of feminists I mentioned in my previous post, there was a sense that what made a woman was being bullied into femininity and forced into second-class citizenship. Transwomen didn't experience that, so they believed, thus did not meaningfully qualify as women.
In one sense, they were technically correct. In another sense, what the average transwoman experienced was fairly similar to and worse than what the average cis-woman went through, even if they weren't out. They just couldn't see that... because transwomen were almost entirely excluded from feminist spaces, heavily downplayed in LGBT spaces, and completely absent from other spaces, so their voices were effectively censored and their "experiences" invented nonsense.
Back then, it was semi-reasonable based on what was known, harmful though it may have been. Today, there's no excuse, but there's also no excuse for believing in a flat earth, so...
If so called "transwomen" are real women then why don't they date each other instead of demanding sex from actual lesbians? Is it because they know that they are actually males who just want access to female bodies and spaces?
When you buy into the transgender fad, you are buying into the whole conservative gender role meme. "Boys like blue and cars and fighting while girls like pink and lipstick and make up and high heels. So if your interests do not coincide with your societal determined gender role, you must be transgender." The whole thing is stupid and arbitrary. In the past men wore high heels. In Scotland men wear skirts. What is considered a gender role is socially constructed and varies from time to time and place to place. If you are a boy who likes to wear make up....that is actually fine. Just be yourself. There is no need to cut your penis off or invade the women's restroom.
Please check out GallusMag's GenderTrender blog (google it)....all I ask is that you read it with an open mind.
@2084990
I`ll ask meanwhile that you fuck off with your TERFsplaining shit to other people.
Nobody "demands" sex from anyone, least of all a fucking TERFist scum. You perpetrate a failed canard to reinforce idiotic points which make no sense.
You have no idea about the medical aspect of the entire thing, evidenced clearly by your "cutting off the penis" quote and even less about the reasons for a transition. YOU read up about medical effects of gender dysphoria and educate yourself before going on about how it`s all social stuff.(hint: It`s not the interests, it`s the bodies themselves).
You have zero right to be taken seriously as you are, drop the fucking airquotes or you`ll be referred to as a man as well.
Actually I did not think of transwomen as men. I have friends that are transgender and they are the gender the have the brain for. One of my friends and I call her my sister is a male to female transgender individual. She is my sister. A woman.
One can check out GalluMag's blog. However if one understands gender they know 2084990 and GalluMag are both wrong.
One thing to note: Cis-lesbians make up about 2% of all women. Transwomen make up about 0.3%, and trans lesbians probably something like 0.05%. Given that level of disparity, and the significant difficulty lesbian transwomen have in finding anyone at all (even considering bi/pan women, which are more common than lesbians), do you really expect them to date each other at anything resembling the rate of them dating cis-lesbians? Especially when the cis-lesbian community in some areas already has issues with there being too few potential partners? It would be like that on steroids.
It's going to be extremely rare occurrence just on the matter of odds alone. That says nothing about their level of willingness to do so.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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