I've mentioned this before, Jeffery Dahmer accepted Christ before being murdered in prison. I find that awsome. The despicable horrible crimes he committed were forgiven by the Lord and he was saved. That same day as he was ushered into heaven by the angels, others were thrown into hell who may have devoted their entire lives to charities, good works, etc. they did not need to be saved they thought, they were good enough. Nothing unclean can be in the presence of God. Only the blood of Christ can make it possible to be in His presence.
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I guess this is one of those people who believes Luther and his "faith alone" crap - do what you want all your life then say you're sorry on your deathbed. Even Luther backed down later. What about James 2:24 "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." Luther's answer was to ignore James' "epistle of straw" because it disagreed with Paul.
So much for all that nonsense about "Christian morals".
You will have a hard time to convince people of such a scenario being just.
It is also interesting that you always claim to happen exactly what happens after a human dies. I tell you what happened:
IMHO this sounds extremly better than your story ;)
You're right about the unclean can't be in the presence of god. Read the bible, no cripples allowed, no folks with vision problems allowed, the list goes on.
You're a sick effing fark to mention Dahmers name with glowing praise, while his victims have been silenced forever.
Go fuck yourself Paul M
...if crazy fucks like Manson and Dahmer get into Heaven and fantastic people like Gandhi and Carl Sagan go to Hell, I know where I'd prefer to go! Doesn't matter if the former bunch were "forgiven"--I'd still prefer not to spend eternity with people who murder other people (and, in Dahmer's case, dismember and fucking EAT them). I'd have an eternal case of the heebie-jeebies.
But I'd like chilling with Mark Twain, Carl Sagan, and Freddie Mercury.
That kind of makes me want to throw up in my mouth a little bit. So Jeffery Dahmer gets to go to heaven, but then people he brutally murdered could go to hell. Yeah. Awesome...
Who would really want to go to heaven if Jeffery Dahmer was there, anyway? He's not exactly your average 'sinner.'
Actually, Brainy, my very fundie grandma says things like this all the time.
I'm going with Kathy Griffin on this one. I'll be sitting around with my friends going "it's not even that hot."
Yes, I'll restate this myself:
James 2:24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.
James 2:17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
So, Jeffery fucking Dahmer can go to heave, but if I were to drop dead right now, god would damn me to hell because I don't believe in the bible?
The nerve of amoral and clueless idiots such as you, Paul. You are walking, talking proof of the moral bankruptcy of your perverted brand of pseudo Christianity. It so happens that one is able to draw almost any conclusion from reading the Bible and cherry picking the passages that suit one. (The vast panoply of interpretations out there is proof positive of that assertion.) You believers in salvation by faith have chosen to give an interpretation which gives you a free ride to eternity at the expense of the vast majority of humanity. Then you have the gall to call yourselves the morally superior ones.
You have plucked the salvation by faith scenario out and ignored that bulk of the teachings of Jesus which make you uncomfortable. It is much as though I went into my local Kroger store everyday to chow down on the free samples. Then I leave without buying a thing all the time calling myself a loyal Kroger customer. My relationship to Krogers is quite parallel to your relationship to the words of Jesus.
I find that awesome. Great people were sent to eternal torture while horrible people were allowed in the presence of my loving god because he tolerates nothing unclean. Awesome.
Remember people. When meeting bloodthirsty, maniacal genociadal lunatics with delusions of grandeur, it is important to hastily wash away the blood on your hands with soap and don some new underwear.
Good job fundie, on showing how the fundamental teachings of your religion are worse that all the others on this planet.
And my parents wonder why I became an atheist <_<
"Only the blood of Christ can make it possible to be in His presence."
Blood for the blood god! Skulls for the skull throne!
Hey, somebody had to say it.
Also, Matthew 25:31-46 says that you fail.
'Awesome'? what sort of twisted fuck are you?
Fair enough, awesome that people can be redeemed, but surely not awesome that you think other good people go to hell? Surely you mean 'tragic'...?
If your imaginary friend accepts someone like dahmer over people who have never deliberately harmed anyone then your imaginary friend is not someone I want to worship. EVER.
I would prefer eternity in hell to eternal life with such a fucking hypocrite.
Luckily your imaginary friend is just that - Imaginary.
Christian justice at it's finest, ladies and gents. Just abandon your faculties, and start kissing Jesus' arse and all will be forgiven. If you don't, no matter how good you've been, you're gonna fry.
http://www.holysmoke.org/hs00/dahmer.htm
Jeffrey Dahmer is the son of a Born Again Fundamentalist (Church of Christ) father. Jeffrey's Born Again Fundamentalist home life led him to feel he could not acknowledge his homosexuality to his Fundamentalist father, and instead he developed an intense hatred of himself and of other gay men.
A number of the previous posts have implied or even stated outright that Paul_M is a POE or perhaps an aberration of the fundie line. Nothing could be further from the truth. The "messsage" that he conveys is at the heart and soul of the fundy line. It is calculated to draw in masses of people who are struggling with guilt over their own shortcomings. The underlying hook is that "if God can forgive a sinner like JD he can easily forgive one like me." For the "saved one" it offers an opportunity to feel generous and superior. It softens the internal torment of every fundamentalist who has ever been troubled in the least by the fact that their cosmology condemns millions/billions to hell due to never hearing the "word of God" about salvation by faith. They choose to focus on the generosity of their god and to ignore his obvious, blatant cruelty and inequity. The kicker is that most fundies are too inherently self centered to ever come to terms with the obvious fact that the god they have conjured up is a cruel asshole.
Do christians even realize how unjust and ridiculous this is?
This is only one of many reasons why I left christianity and became Pagan; this backwards, logic-starved sense of justice. Good people suffering eternally while rotten people go on to eternal bliss.
No thanks. I'd rather spend my afterlife hanging out with George Carlin, Richard Jeni and Charles Darwin.
I'll stick with Judaism, where good works count.
And I'll stick with atheism, where there's no god to decree salvation by faith or to order genocide.
To those responders who stated this was why they rejected Christianity. This reminds me of Lee Stroble's book "THE CASE FOR FAITH". He addressed what he thought were the eight toughest objections to Christianity. Five of the eight objections were (like this post) God not acting godly, i.e. killing babies, allowing evil to exist, letting His church commit atrocities in His name and condemning souls to Hell for eternity. That's like saying you don't believe in Santa Claus because a real Santa would have warehouse near highly populated areas. We are told there is a supernatural, magical supreme being that lives forever. He is not mass or energy as we know it, is invisible and totally undetectable. He notices everything we do, say or think, no matter what language we speak. He remembers all of this drivel from all of us because our spirits (which magically enter our cells at conception) will be judged on all this data. He alters natural events in response to prayers or for punishment. We are expected to believe this nonsense without any evidence because we need faith, not knowledge to get into Heaven. JD getting into Heaven is not even a small part of why I don't believe the ridiculous fantasies of any religion.
Their argument is one of lack of comprehension that comes with a rigid religion that is not introspective.
1. Their argument is that the "doctrine of works" is flawed. Because no one knows how good you have to be. And that its easier for some to be good. So we would have "douchebags" like Gandhi making the rest of us look bad.
2. Therefore they find comfort in the "doctrine of faith" which states that kissing up to God can get you in far easier than doing good deeds.
3. The irony is that they don't realise that the "eastern" doctrine of faith understood this problem by ensuring that the ability of people changes and its the intent. That a young child sharing is a good deed and the good deeds are done within the scale of things.
Therefore, the offer of Lot to the mob of his "daughters" is not a good deed "karmicly". The offer of the strangers is not good either. However barring the way of the crowd and fighting them would be the "good" option should the ability to drive them off verbally fail. The problem is that they don't understand the entire concept of a variety of answers to a single problem.
So this one approves of mass murder if Jesus says it's OK!
BTW, the word 'awesome is grossly misused. Check it's meaning in a dictionary.
Apart from the above, you need to give a citation for your claim regarding Dahmer, and also in respect of how you know god forgave him for killing people. Did god personally telll you? A telegramme from heaven? Speak up!
And so the murdering pedophilic necrophiliac rapist cannibal repents of his sins and is rewarded an eternity in the Everlasting Party House of the Blood God. Hooray?
Shann: Holy crap! I didn't even know Richard Jeni was dead! Damn, that sucks. He was funny. :(
(I know, it was over a year ago - I looked it up. Seems I'm always the last to know).
Well I guess the fact that his father is an AiG 'scientist' gives him bonus points in heaven too.
Of course his upbringing probably had a lot to do with what he turned into too. But hey, he only killed homos right? Wasn't like he was killing real humans. [/sarcasm]
Thank logic I never caught Xianity! Or any other religion for that matter, but Abrahamic religions have to be some of the worst ones: Zeus or Odin are pricks too, lying, stealing, raping and murdering pricks even, but at least their followers didn't feel the need to make excuses or to try to explain that their behaviour was actually just and good...
Presumably he won't molest, murder, and eat anyone in heaven, since he's up there. That would be very un-heavenly behavior.
"Presumably he won't molest, murder, and eat anyone in heaven, since he's up there. That would be very un-heavenly behavior."
He can if he says 'sorry' afterwards.
Mass murderer goes to heaven, good people go to Hell.
Where is the justice?
Bono's still here, but Freddie's gone.
Where is the justice?
The reasoning here is just so .... no words really.
Maybe Jesus is really a vampire, and drinking his blood makes you his forever, just like in Trueblood.
And...you believe a psychopathic, murdering cannibal who engaged in pedophilia, saved body parts, and routinely had sex with corpses when he said he converted.
I did a Google search on this Dahmer guy to see who exactly we're talking about here. I found a Wikipedia article about him and this is what it says:
Jeffrey Lionel Dahmer (May 21, 1960 November 28, 1994), also known as the Milwaukee Cannibal, was an American serial killer and sex offender, who committed the rape, murder and dismemberment of 17 men and boys between 1978 and 1991, with many of his later murders also involving necrophilia, cannibalism and the permanent preservation of body partstypically all or part of the skeletal structure.[1]
So, let me set the record straight. What you're saying is that a person like that can end up in heaven simply because they "accepted Christ" just before they died and you see no problem in that?
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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