Quote# 100719

Also, I find much more convincing cases that are specific, like the following one Mike Licona used in his debate with Stephen Patterson concerning a friend of his.

In June of 1987, he’s riding down a highway when he gets in a horrible automobile accident that places him in the hospital for 21 days in a coma. The 21st day in the hospital is the 4th of July. At 4:00 in the afternoon, his church is somewhere at a park having a 4th of July picnic when they stop and pray for Lloyd. Guess what happens at 4:00 with Lloyd? He comes out of his coma. Guess what else happens - there are a number of other people in the same room with Lloyd who were in a coma for 1-6 months. They all came out of their coma as well. That is a miracle.

How do we know this? Because it’s extremely unlikely by natural causes, and second it occurs in a context that’s charged with religious significance.

Our author has to conclude that this was not a miracle, it was just a coincidence. There are several more stories out there like this one, but they all have to be just chance. He has assumed his conclusion from the get-go.

Nick Peters, CARM 41 Comments [4/29/2014 3:25:30 AM]
Fundie Index: 20
Submitted By: Chris

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Grimsoncrow

No, they're just lying for Jeebus.

4/29/2014 3:30:06 AM

Creedence Leonore Gielgud

I'm assuming this event was well documented by the hospital, and that you will be more than happy to provide this corroborating evidence.

There's a reason why good preachers would have said "some man," or such, instead of providing an actual name. That's because "some man" is next to impossible to for anyone else to falsify, and that's more than enough evidence for the sort of simpletons who flock to such frauds in the first place.

4/29/2014 3:42:27 AM

MK

"There's a reason why good preachers would have said "some man," or such, instead of providing an actual name. "

My favorite that I hear all the time on fundie-radio is "a friend of mine" or especially "a dear friend of mine," though that's usually in the context of having some theological conversation that never actually happened. As if we didn't already know that sock-puppets go back to Plato.

4/29/2014 4:14:25 AM

Prager

I wonder how many facts were killed to make that story "true"?

4/29/2014 4:15:35 AM

Canadiest

All of them.

They can't seem to help themselves by going too far. One man coming out of a coma at the same time a prayer vigil is being performed is, indeed, a coincidence.
After all, in 21 days the prayers weren't working, Sooooo, he tags on several more coma patients to make it bigger.

Never mind that a room of several coma patients all coming around at once would be huge news and not a somewhere, sometime story. If someone in the flock asks "why haven't we heard of this before?" out comes the media hiding these miracles from us conspiracy.

4/29/2014 4:23:50 AM

Glandu

The inability of 99% of mankind to understand basic statistics will always impress me.

Throw a few thousand dices. Whatever the results, there will be patterns. Random ones, of course, but patterns. Now you just have to say "Gob & jeeeeeeebuuuuuuus!!!", et voilà!

(not even counting the fact that it could be pure invention - but even outruling lie, it's still just random events showing some pattern, as all random events do).

4/29/2014 4:47:16 AM

Hasan Prishtina

When you show me testament from all the people who came out of comas in that room, all the medical staff involved and show that there could not possibly be a scientific reason why these people came out of comas, I'll trust your story. And then you can tell me about a group of amputees whose limbs grew back.

4/29/2014 4:52:11 AM

Philbert McAdamia

It's a miracle! Like when Jebus arose from the dead and all the zombies for miles around got up out of the ground. If it wasn't for all those others, I'd find the story hard to believe, but by the sheer weight of numbers, it must be true.

4/29/2014 5:01:18 AM



Firstly, bullshit, and secondly, why that room alone? Why not a hospital full of patients cured of their ailments? Or a town? A country? Planet?

God is either not as superpowered as you claim, or an asshole.

4/29/2014 5:04:02 AM

Doubting Thomas

*tweet!* Bullshit! 5 yard penalty.


4/29/2014 5:15:12 AM

MK

Also.... a room full of coma patients? Doesn't sound like a hospital I've ever heard of.

4/29/2014 5:26:57 AM

anothga

Why do I feel like Nick is pulling this shit out of his ass?

4/29/2014 5:28:01 AM

EG

Proclaiming something a miracle should be your absolute last resort, since they are by definition the least likely explanation for any occurrence.

Anyway. People were praying for this guy to come out of his coma, and God woke up everyone in the ward instead. So did he not know who the person in question was and just woke everyone up just to be on the safe side? Or was he a bit rushed and just did a mass "rise from coma" and be done with it?

4/29/2014 5:29:46 AM

Joe Mama

there are a number of other people in the same room with Lloyd who were in a coma for 1-6 months.

Lying for Jesus. How many people to a hospital room do you think we have nowadays? Even back in 1987? The days of large hospital wards were back in the 1950's. In 1987 it was no more than 1 or 2 people per room. Now it tends to be one patient per room.

And a coma isn't a usual thing, what are the odds that a bunch of people in the same hospital ended up in comas for 1-6 months anyway?

4/29/2014 5:59:30 AM

Kuno

Well, Nick, I know for a fact that one of these other coma patients was a practicing Pastafarian, and in its endless mercy and wisdom the FSM decided to heal him. While at it, it thought, “Hey, I am already here, so what’s the harm?” and also touched the others with its noodly appendage. And lo and behold, they also were healed!

And now prove me wrong.

4/29/2014 6:26:03 AM

Kuribo

Even if it were true, so what?


Why would praying for one guy heal a bunch of others as well? Why were the prayers of their families not heard until the prayer vigil? Surely people prayed for the others too?

4/29/2014 6:32:39 AM

Anon-e-moose

And what further proof does one need that 'Truth' = LIES.

If we're talking about murder cases, it's been proven that eyewitness testimonies are extremely unreliable - certainly in the eyes of the court - thus only hard, solid, physical forensic evidence counts, certainly for prosecutors. 'My word against his' doesn't count for shit in the ultimate crucible of Reality; the defence would be torn apart by said prosecutor, if that's all the defendant had.

Just suppose a member of your family was murdered, Nicky-boy. Question: Would you accept the defendant's plea of 'I didn't do it!'? Because if you didn't insist on the full "CSI" treatment re. said murder scene & subsequent investigations - using the latest scientific forensic techniques available - your entire argument is equally dead.

Moral: Just the facts, ma'am. [/"Dragnet"]

And if your so-called 'Argument' has the right to exist, you may now proceed to give us just one example - with video evidence - of a missing limb regenerated purely by 'Faith Healing'. Because if you can't...! >:D

4/29/2014 6:43:07 AM

Papabear

With this awesome power at their beck and call, why did they let him languish for 21 days before praying for him. Or did they pray every day and it took 21 days for the omnipotent, omni-benevolent God to get off his butt and wake this guy up? And why only wake him up? Weren't all his injuries healed at once?

4/29/2014 6:58:33 AM

Swede

So, was that the only time in 21 days when people were praying for this "friend"? Why didn't they start praying earlier?
Besides, it takes a few minutes to say a prayer; oughtn't he to have woken up at 4:06, or something?
Besides 2, if a room full of coma patients all came around at the same time, it would be headline news. Which hospital did it happen in, and what ward? Even 27 years later, people ought to remember something like that.

Our author must conclude that until he has tangible evidence that this happened as described, it's just an anecdote. He hasn't come to any conclusion yet, silly. Only the ones who assume that it's a miracle can have a conclusion from the get-go.

4/29/2014 7:02:58 AM

rubber chicken

Weren't they lucky that they stacked all of those coma patients like cordwood in the one room. Just think of how disappointed everyone would have been if they'd been in a proper hospital.

4/29/2014 7:27:40 AM

Pip

Is that really the best he can do? Wake a few people up.

4/29/2014 7:29:46 AM

Thinking Allowed

If there were several people at the same time in the same room coming out of comas, there would a media frenzy over it. Something like this is a rare event and not likely to be seen by the medical field of "Oh well, it happens all the time." Some media outlet would jump on this.

4/29/2014 7:41:48 AM

nazani14

Affadavit from hospital staff, pls.

4/29/2014 8:10:00 AM

Big Jilm

Someone coming out of a coma does not break the laws of physics and nature. Sounds like your "miracle" is just your subjective experience.

I'd find it more miraculous if you'd shut your trap, but physicists say black holes don't work that way.

4/29/2014 8:32:25 AM

Goomy pls

There are also several cases of rare diseases out there, too. Are they miracles?

4/29/2014 8:37:13 AM

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