Quote# 103161

Is abortion allowed in the case of an ectopic pregnancy?

Abortion is always evil - it intends to directly kill a child. It is never allowed even to save the life of the mother. The Church clearly teaches that “One may never do evil so that good may result from it” (Catechism, 1789).

The New Catholic Encyclopedia says the following:

“What is particularly noted in all cases of the discovery of a tubal pregnancy is that one is never permitted to remove or destroy the human fetus directly. The only legitimate surgical approach to any tubal pregnancy is based on the necessity of excising all or part of a seriously damaged fallopian tube in those circumstances in which the danger to the mother is already imminent and the chance for fetal survival is negligible.” (Vol. 5, pg. 88)

Catholic Answers Chastity Outreach, Chastity.com 39 Comments [9/4/2014 3:18:52 AM]
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Submitted By: Chris
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Miles

This is totally fucked-up. Written by an 80-something male virgin, no doubt.

9/4/2014 3:29:50 AM

anothga

What you're quoting is not a very good argument because, if fetus really is alive, a decision to perform or not perform the abortion is actually a question over whose life one wants to save, mother's or fetus'. I believe that's an example of "doing evil so good may result from it" because, since you defined fetus as alive, one is sacrificing one life for another, in the event that the pregnancy or giving birth might kill the mother.

9/4/2014 3:38:55 AM

ScrappyB

How convenient that the people making these rulings never have to worry about suffering the direct effects of them.

9/4/2014 3:42:45 AM

Mister Spak

"Abortion is always evil - it intends to directly kill a child. It is never allowed even to save the life of the mother."

This is why back in the old days women told each other never go to a catholic obstetrician - he'll stand there and watch you die before he'll do an abortion to save your life.

9/4/2014 3:52:53 AM

Canadiest

Y'now, since the church never led to the study and understanding of such things and in fact stood in the way of such ,,,STFU.

9/4/2014 3:59:09 AM

Swede

Doesn't the Bible say that life begins with the first breath?

Abortion intends to remove a "parasite" that grows in an unwilling host. In cases where the pregancy is threatening the life of the woman, NOT removing the fetus intends to directly kill a woman. Is that allowed?

An ectopic pregnancy has only two different outcomes; either the fetus is removed and the woman survives, or the fetus stays and both die.

9/4/2014 3:59:44 AM

Goomy pls

"not allowed even to save the life of a mother"

Whereas Jews are required to do so. Fewer lives lost, after all.

"One may never do evil so that good may result from it"

In this case it's a matter of evil vs. more evil.

9/4/2014 4:03:23 AM

NeoFaust

@Swede

Not only does the Bible say that life only begins with the first breath, the accidental termination of a foetus (with no further consequences for the mother) deserved penalties equal to a broken arm of similar injury; A fine decided by the womans family and the judges.

Actually reading the Bible, it is clear that an unborn foetus was not considered human by religious law.

9/4/2014 4:13:09 AM

Prager

Repeat: Women are just incubators.

9/4/2014 4:38:11 AM

Pule Thamex

The ancient desert bleating of an eye-wateringly insane pedophile cult.

9/4/2014 4:49:18 AM

Evgir Unslaad

Ectopic pregnancies aren't survivable without an abortion. Either the fetus dies or both die. You have to make the choice.

And no, waiting for things to get worse doesn't make anything any better.

9/4/2014 5:13:36 AM

Doubting Thomas

It is never allowed even to save the life of the mother.

This is just one of the reasons that, should I ever be a Christian again, I will never, ever go back to the Catholic church. I'm so glad my wife's sister (Catholic) didn't listen to this crap when she had her ectopic pregnancy. She lived to raise the son she already had and went on to have another child, which she couldn't have done if she had died.

The Church clearly teaches that “One may never do evil so that good may result from it” (Catechism, 1789).

Wouldn't that also apply to allowing a woman to die so that there will be one less abortion performed?

9/4/2014 5:29:22 AM

Nomen Nescio

for an organization with over a millennia of history, including centuries of collegiate-level scholarship, you really have to wonder what the fuck the leadership was smoking to enact such reeking sophomoric bullshit into their foundational guidelines. i mean honestly, by the early 1990's a freakin' high school kid (well, maybe not one of the stoners, but...) could come up with better ethical reasoning than that. and it's not as if they didn't have far better examples of ethics and morals to fall back on; for the past half millennium or so the Jews have been producing better than that at most every bar mitzvah, i should think, not to even mention the ancient Greek.

but yet the really worrisome thing is that it's now a quarter century later and the catholics STILL haven't FIXED THIS FUCKUP. it's a blatantly obvious fuckup, should have been so all along, and yet they still haven't come up with any excuse to dead-letter it the way institutionalized religions usually do when they want to sweep a past mistake under the rug. what are they STILL smoking?

9/4/2014 6:46:20 AM

SpukiKitty

BUT THE EMBRYO IS STILL KILLED!

IF YOU LET IT GROW TO FETUS-SIZE, BOTH MOM & FETUS ARE KILLED!


MY GAWD! I always assumed that, despite being sexually backwards & obstinate, the Vatican was still rather educated & intellectual...with all those libraries, an observatory & art...

But THIS is so stupid that even a backwoods, inbred, hillbilly would do a double-take!

Have these guys been drinking too much sacramental wine or what?

9/4/2014 8:03:26 AM

Mark Poe

More evidence that the God that they worship is a sadist.

9/4/2014 8:06:41 AM

SannaSanjouri

You value the "life" of an unthinking, unfeeling foetus who is going to die no matter what more than the life of a woman who is really alive and has friends, family, hopes, dreams, and everything to live for? I fucking hope there's a Rapture. At least it'll cleanse the Earth of these arseholes and their ilk. They're the scum of the Earth and they don't realise it, because they're so busy thinking they're super holy. Seriously, fuck them.

9/4/2014 8:20:11 AM

nazani14

Well, that's just nonsense. Typically, an ectopic pregnancy is discovered when the fallopian tube ruptures, at which point the fetus dies because its blood supply is cut. If somehow the ectopic pregnancy is discovered before the rupture, removal of the section of fallopian tube also kills the fetus, because its blood supply is cut. I'd call that "directly." Maybe there's been a case where an ectopic pregnancy was transplanted to the uterus, but I've never heard of it.

9/4/2014 8:20:58 AM



Nice to see that it's only evil if an embryo dies, but not if a lowly, disposable woman dies.

Institutional Catholic misogyny, part 789,564,932.

9/4/2014 9:08:53 AM

werewolf

This is the product of a standard bovine digestive process.

9/4/2014 10:17:14 AM

Anon-e-moose

"The Church clearly teaches that “One may never do evil so that good may result from it” (Catechism, 1789)."

The Church clearly taught - from a very early era - that "One may do evil to kids so long as nobody knows about it" (Gary Glitter 1997).

Your previous Pope, Ratzy the Nazi, was - prior to becoming Benedict XVI - head of the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith: the cuddly, user-friendly term for the Inquisition; effectively the Gestapo of the RCC: they knew everything about everyone, especially it's own clergy & all it's skeletons-in-cupboards.

Thus it was impossible for Ratzy the Nazi to have not known about the Paedophile Priests scandal; indeed, he is just as guilty for not making it a police matter, having those kiddy-diddling clergy arrested, tried then have the book thrown at them, ultimately washing his hands of them. And so fucking what if the RCC would've been destroyed in the process? Not my fucking problem, CACO.

...ahhhh, and methinks therein lies the nub of the entire gist, eh? The actual reason for your 'oposition' to abortion: More kids born for your clergy to diddle.

You lot don't have the right to so much as think of questioning any individual women's right to decide what she does with her body. And you lot know it.

Glass houses & stones, CACO, glass houses & stones.

9/4/2014 10:19:43 AM

Mister Spak

@SpukiKitty etc.


"MY GAWD! I always assumed that, despite being sexually backwards & obstinate, the Vatican was still rather educated & intellectual...with all those libraries, an observatory & art...

But THIS is so stupid that even a backwoods, inbred, hillbilly would do a double-take!"

In this case the Catholic chruch does a theological hair-splitting.

You are allowed to remove the diseased fallopian tube. This indirectly kills the embryo so it is allowed. They make the same claim regarding uterine cancer.

In the case of some kidney disorders where pregnancy will kill the woman the removal of the embryo directly will save the woman, in that case abortion is not allowed. The woman must die and take the "baby" with her.

This is not new. It has been standard theology for a hundred years. This is not
redneck morons or Pat Robertson burbling, this is educated bishops and popes and PhD in god types talking.

9/4/2014 10:26:50 AM

breakerslion

The Church clearly teaches that “One may never do evil so that good may result from it ... unless you're a member of the Clergy!”

Fixed, you control-freak assholes!





9/4/2014 11:05:30 AM

Hasan Prishtina

By having the fetus die and letting the mother die as a result, you are doing evil so that the "good" of not aborting a fetus can follow. How does that square with the Catechism?

9/4/2014 11:20:19 AM



"Abortion is always evil - it intends to directly kill a child. "

Just like your god in the old testament. Think of home many children (and pregnant women) he intended to directly kill during the flood...think of how many Amalekite men, women (incliding pregnant women), children, and infants he intended to directly kill...think of how many Caananite children he intended to directly kill....think of how many first-born of Egypt he intended to directly kill...

Reading the old testament, it sounds like your god likes killing children...

So if "abortion is always evil" because it "intends to directly kill a child", then by the same logic, your "god is always evil" because countless times he "intended to directly kill children". And you worship this god?

9/4/2014 11:22:00 AM

JGC

You're quoting from Catechism, 1789 as if it were known to possess some inherent moral authority--why?

You're also speaking as if at any all stage of development following fertilziation the developing zygote/embryo/fetus shared identity with a human child, such that terminating a pregnancy shares identity with killing a child. Again: why?

9/4/2014 11:28:41 AM

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