Quote# 11489

They are the same breed of people that keep *insisting* that this country was not found on Christian values (which fails to explain why the pilgrims left England over "religious intolerance" towards Protestants by the church of England).

[Sorry Captain History, but the pilgrims that came over in the 1600s did not found this country.]

Yes, but that was the one thing that was most important to them, and it endured. The freedom of religion was established because of how England wanted to force the protestants to comply. The seperation of church and state was made to keep the Government from controlling the church. There is no seperation of Mosque and state in the U.S. When you read the things that they were documented as saying, they weren't saying "In A God we trust...." They didn't refer to generic "God"...they said GOD.

† Matt †, Myspace 30 Comments [5/8/2006 12:00:00 AM]
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Hadanelith

I agree with the guy who disagreed.

5/8/2006 3:05:01 AM

Huffers

when who said \"In God we trust\"? The puritans?

5/8/2006 3:40:46 AM

Talisman

\"The seperation of church and state was made to keep the Government from controlling the church. There is no seperation of Mosque and state in the U.S.\"

I know I've said this a few times before in reply to other fundies but I think it applies here as well so here goes: You're not very bright, are you?

\"They didn't refer to generic \"God\"...they said GOD.\"

Oh, that God. Well then, why didn't they make themselves clear?

5/8/2006 3:47:22 AM

Cicero

<<<(which fails to explain why the pilgrims left England over \"religious intolerance\" towards Protestants by the church of England).>>>

So the 'Protestant Church of England', showed 'religious intolerance' towards protestants - interesting.

5/8/2006 3:57:19 AM

Napoleon the Clown

Myspace, gathering place for the lowest common denominator of the human race (provided said LCD ha internet access.)

5/8/2006 4:44:13 AM

Skyfire

Religious freedom was a primary concern for many who came over here.

However, there were other primary concerns:

1. Economic opportunity - New land, new way of life, new start.

2. Criminals - Brittain viewed their colonies as a way to get rid of criminals. Georgia was actually set up as one big debtor's prison.

5/8/2006 4:58:23 AM

mad dog

My history is a bit rusty, but didn't 'In God we trust' not come until 1952, or am I thinking of something else?

5/8/2006 5:21:08 AM

NKF

Cicero,

In all fairness that is pretty true.

5/8/2006 5:50:09 AM

Rosie

Does this mean it's okay to persecute Christians in Muslim countries, because they were founded on Muslim principles?*

*the modern country is founded on those principles

5/8/2006 8:23:36 AM

Tiny Bulcher

How is it the New England colonists (who weren't Puritans, incidentally) get remembered, and all the other colonists don't?

5/8/2006 9:20:24 AM

Dante's Virgil

mad dog: I think you're right.

And I also love the fact that the Puritans didn't just want freedom of religion--they wanted to found a freakin' New Jerusalem. When you think about it, politics have come full circle, huh?

5/8/2006 12:15:53 PM

Papabear

Listen, Mutt, many of the actual founding fathers were, by no stretch of your warped imagination, Christians. Read the works and letters of Adams, Jefferson and Madison. Read (hold your breath, Mutt) Thomas Paine. Yes, Paine was a founding father of the U.S..

In God We Trust was added to U.S. paper currency in the McCarthy era of the 1950s. It is an inappropriate national motto and an insult to every person in this country who is not an Abrahamic monotheist.


Tiny Bulcher -- Excellent point.

5/8/2006 2:54:47 PM

MJW

'In God We Trust' didn't appear on coins until 1864, so there.

5/8/2006 3:20:50 PM

kmisho

Wrong anyway. The first freedom of religion law in the US was passed in Virginia, because of all the christian-on-christian violence IN VIRGINIA.

5/8/2006 3:41:52 PM

David D.G.

Well, we have a contender for the \"Historical Revisionist\" Award.

But what really cracks me up is the fact that he contends that the use of the term \"church\" in the expression \"separation of church and state\" can ONLY apply to a Christian type of church and NO OTHER RELIGIOUS INSTITUTION -- and then concludes that these others, therefore, should just be ignored entirely! That's about the most strangely warped reinterpretation of the phrase I have ever heard!


~David D.G.

5/8/2006 4:15:08 PM

Sierra

I asked if he thinks the government can just step in and control mosques, and he said:

\"does it say that they can't? No it doesn't... but they likely won't anyways... other than perhaps a well earned wire tap or two.

I have pennies from the 1900's....they all say the same thing- In God We Trust.\"

5/8/2006 4:47:20 PM

Hadanelith

I trust in the stupidity of the human race. Idiot.

5/8/2006 6:05:00 PM

Ace of Sevens

I'm not even sure what exactly he's trying to argue.

5/8/2006 7:10:42 PM

Papabear

In God We Trust was added first to the 2-cent piece during the Christian fervor of the civil war era. It soon was on all U.S. coins, but didn't appear on paper currency until the McCarthyism of the early 1950s.

5/8/2006 8:23:32 PM

Crosis

<<< There is no seperation of Mosque and state in the U.S. >>>

\"Church\", as used in the phrase \"separation of church and state\", is not limited to Christian churches - that word is used because it is the sort most familiar to Americans (both now and of the time of the quote) and there isn't a sufficiently pithy generic term.

<<< When you read the things that they were documented as saying, they weren't saying \"In A God we trust....\" >>>

\"In God We Trust\" was neither on our paper money nor in the Pledge until the Cold War. Thank you, come again.

5/8/2006 11:11:03 PM

Dante's Virgil

Mad Dog. I think we're both thinking of the change to the pledge of allegiance as well.

Perhaps we should join Captain History as his sidekicks, Memoir Mutt and Chronicle Girl...:(

5/9/2006 12:11:30 AM

NonHomogenized

\"That's about the most strangely warped reinterpretation of the phrase I have ever heard!\"

Indeed.

5/9/2006 6:36:21 AM

The Last Conformist

There's no separation between mosque and state in America? I'm sure the world's islamists will be thrilled to hear that.

5/11/2006 9:25:28 PM

Sandman

I love it when ignornat people make it glaringly obvious like this.

Firstly, the Pilgrims did not come to North America from England seeking religious freedom. Them came from Denmark. They went there seeking religious freedom and discovered that in Denmark, that's exactly what they got. So they came to North America not seeking religious freedom, but seeking religious isolation, so that their children would no longer be exposed to differing faiths and beliefs.

Secondly, as was noted above, the Pilgrims had about as much to do with the founding of the United States as I did. And the people who did found our nation did so seeking political freedom, not religious freedom.

As Twain was fond of saying: \"It is better to keep your mouth shut and have everyone think you are a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.\"

5/18/2006 2:09:32 AM

Renon

You do realize that there were other European colonists here first, right? That Plymouth was already an established colony? And that before all of that, there was a thriving civilization that was so appealing that Europeans actually CONVERTED to the natives' way of life?

You do realize this, right? RIGHT?

5/22/2012 4:36:18 PM

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