They are the same breed of people that keep *insisting* that this country was not found on Christian values (which fails to explain why the pilgrims left England over "religious intolerance" towards Protestants by the church of England).
[Sorry Captain History, but the pilgrims that came over in the 1600s did not found this country.]
Yes, but that was the one thing that was most important to them, and it endured. The freedom of religion was established because of how England wanted to force the protestants to comply. The seperation of church and state was made to keep the Government from controlling the church. There is no seperation of Mosque and state in the U.S. When you read the things that they were documented as saying, they weren't saying "In A God we trust...." They didn't refer to generic "God"...they said GOD.
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"The seperation of church and state was made to keep the Government from controlling the church. There is no seperation of Mosque and state in the U.S."
I know I've said this a few times before in reply to other fundies but I think it applies here as well so here goes: You're not very bright, are you?
"They didn't refer to generic "God"...they said GOD."
Oh, that God. Well then, why didn't they make themselves clear?
Religious freedom was a primary concern for many who came over here.
However, there were other primary concerns:
1. Economic opportunity - New land, new way of life, new start.
2. Criminals - Brittain viewed their colonies as a way to get rid of criminals. Georgia was actually set up as one big debtor's prison.
mad dog: I think you're right.
And I also love the fact that the Puritans didn't just want freedom of religion--they wanted to found a freakin' New Jerusalem. When you think about it, politics have come full circle, huh?
Listen, Mutt, many of the actual founding fathers were, by no stretch of your warped imagination, Christians. Read the works and letters of Adams, Jefferson and Madison. Read (hold your breath, Mutt) Thomas Paine. Yes, Paine was a founding father of the U.S..
In God We Trust was added to U.S. paper currency in the McCarthy era of the 1950s. It is an inappropriate national motto and an insult to every person in this country who is not an Abrahamic monotheist.
Tiny Bulcher -- Excellent point.
Well, we have a contender for the "Historical Revisionist" Award.
But what really cracks me up is the fact that he contends that the use of the term "church" in the expression "separation of church and state" can ONLY apply to a Christian type of church and NO OTHER RELIGIOUS INSTITUTION -- and then concludes that these others, therefore, should just be ignored entirely! That's about the most strangely warped reinterpretation of the phrase I have ever heard!
~David D.G.
<<< There is no seperation of Mosque and state in the U.S. >>>
"Church", as used in the phrase "separation of church and state", is not limited to Christian churches - that word is used because it is the sort most familiar to Americans (both now and of the time of the quote) and there isn't a sufficiently pithy generic term.
<<< When you read the things that they were documented as saying, they weren't saying "In A God we trust...." >>>
"In God We Trust" was neither on our paper money nor in the Pledge until the Cold War. Thank you, come again.
I love it when ignornat people make it glaringly obvious like this.
Firstly, the Pilgrims did not come to North America from England seeking religious freedom. Them came from Denmark. They went there seeking religious freedom and discovered that in Denmark, that's exactly what they got. So they came to North America not seeking religious freedom, but seeking religious isolation, so that their children would no longer be exposed to differing faiths and beliefs.
Secondly, as was noted above, the Pilgrims had about as much to do with the founding of the United States as I did. And the people who did found our nation did so seeking political freedom, not religious freedom.
As Twain was fond of saying: "It is better to keep your mouth shut and have everyone think you are a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt."
You do realize that there were other European colonists here first, right? That Plymouth was already an established colony? And that before all of that, there was a thriving civilization that was so appealing that Europeans actually CONVERTED to the natives' way of life?
You do realize this, right? RIGHT?
God, which god? Show us the book and quote that says specifically it was YOUR god.
So somewhere the founding fathers said "In Jesus Christ we trust"? Maybe it is right after the establishment clause?
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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