Ray Comfort #fundie

Ray Comfort #fundie facebook.com

"Men never commit evil so fully and joyfully as when they do it for religious convictions." Blaise Pascal

Blaise Pascal was a Christian. He knew that idolatry (making up false gods--a violation of the First and the Second of the Ten Commandments) has historically been the basis for great evils.

Evils such as the Spanish Inquisition--Roman Catholics killing Christians for their faith in Jesus, rather than in the Roman Catholic Church.

And Adolf Hitler--committing atrocities in the name of God. But both fall way short of atheism, which (through atheistic communism) resulted in the slaughter of 110,000,000 human beings.

47 comments

old comment by Arceus

@CantStumpTheTrump

Not exactly. If you keep checking the anti-evolution/anti-atheist quotes on this website, you can see that many fundamentalists say "Hitler was an atheist!" or "Hitler believed in evolution", thus both of those things are wrong! We're just saying that Hitler was a Christian and banned the Origin of Species in order to wipe that smug smile off their faces. Pretty much every religion (and as NeoMatrix shows, even atheism) has some bad people in it, but they can't simply pull a No True Scotsman and shift the blame to another religion/lack of religion.

Hitler was politically motivated, yes, but he still used religion to pull the masses in.
So basically, we're not criticizing Christianity, but rather the fundamentalists pulling No True Scotsmans.

old comment by Canadiest

What a piece of shit you are Ray.
An incredibly purposely dishonest example of what dangerous cultism produces.

The Ten Commandments show up in Roman Catholicism from the Torah over a thousand years earlier than ANY VERSION resembling your bullshit Americanized rip-offs.

I'm no defender of them or the Vatican or the Rabbis of BC, but credit where credit (and other blame) is due. Your bullshit wouldn't exist without their centuries of concerted concentrated and coerced bullshit.

That quote, that was the admission of making killing Joyous and Pascal did not mean or specify "other" religion, he WAS referring to Christian ethics. It's just because he believed it was justifiable, even noble. "Blaise Pascal was a Christian" says it all, what Christian do, by default, had to be justifiable, even the atrocities of the Catholics over Soooo much more time then you shits have had.

He was, then, just the new breed having nothing in common with you or the fundamentlist retardism of Americas South. He defended then scientific method and produced many important strides in mechanical calculation devices. Like Newton and Carol he was famous for other things, not their religious bend, that produced nothing.

You. Ray. You talk shit all day and produce nothing but stupidity and misinformation as divine revelation.

old comment by Anon-e-moose

@[i]CanStumpTheTrump

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What was stopping him from having 'Hitler Mit Uns' on those buckles? He already had a religious-esque 'Cult of Personality': otherwise he would've forbade such devotion of him. He had no need to pander to the churches in Germany; Winston Churchill didn't do the same with the C-of-E & RCC in Britain during WWII.

Strange that it's only next year that Churchill will be appearing on the back of our new £5 note.

It is historical record that Churchill had a loathing of Hitler; it was well-founded & more than justified. After all: America didn't have a single Luftwaffe bomb dropped on it, and the only V-1s & V-2s that existed in the US were reverse-engineered from those that were captured in Europe post-D-Day, and test launched in empty firing ranges etc.

What was stopping Hitler from being the proto-Willy Brandt: a Social Democrat? Think: Norway, post-WWII; certainly post-worldwide recession created by the rightist Dumbya.

old comment by Bashkim

@Phil O'Macedon

In the twenties and thirties all kinds of repressive measures were taken by the Soviet regime specifically against the religious and specifically in the name of atheism. Children, organised at school in promotion-of-atheism societies, were encouraged to denounce family members for hidden religious beliefs. Cathedrals, churches and mosques were razed to the ground. Many religious ended up in the gulag and or dead simply on grounds of religious belief - although of course many people ended up in the gulag or dead for no identifiable reason whatsoever...

It's silly to deny that enforcing atheism and persecuting Christians and other religonists was an explicit part of Marxist-Leninism. The fact that they repressed other groups, or people for many different reasons, doesn't really change that.

old comment by Phil O'Macedon

@ Bashkim (and if that is your name I recognize it as an generally eastern Mediterranean one, usually Albanian.)-- I've read a lot of history, during the "Great Purge" of 1936-38 it is estimated that between 600.000 and 1.2 million people were eradicated by the Soviet Government. Saying this was done "In The Name Of Atheism!" is not something I agree with. Stalin was,of course, trying to eradicate religion. See other posts I have made about "problematic groups". But comparing the people who were done away with by these monsters for purely religious reasons, compared to all other reasons, is like comparing a shopping cart to a dump truck. You are fixated on the USSR killing and repressing religious people, okay that's your deal. They killed and repressed perceived "non team players" religious or not throughout the 20's and especially the 30's. But your incorrectly weighted assessment of the effort thrown against the religious is, I think, perhaps emotionally based. Stalin was leaning on the Russian Orthodox Church with every intent of eradication. But if you think they were the "main attraction" they were not. They were just on the list. I'm 58, and yes, I have always read history as a pastime and am not even sure how many books regarding WW2 I have actually read. You have a real fixation on Soviet persecution of religion, when it is the mere tip of the iceberg. Did you know that Stalin eased up extremely on religion during "The Great Patriotic War" because he belatedly realized its morale value? That didn't mean he had seen the light. It was a cynical manipulation just like his previous attempts to eradicate it, not a realization of the "falseness" of an atheistic outlook. Read a foot tall stack of books on the history of the USSR (a rather arbitrary and imprecise suggestion, I admit) and make very sure to read on the "The Great Purge" AKA the Yezhovshchina. Take responsibility for your own education.

old comment by Canadiest

@Phil O'Macedon

You know your history.
Now tell everyone how the Russian Orthodox church and connected royalty ran the country before Communism.

Not defending Stalin, mind, but Russia and history has to be seen in relative context. To get rid of a totalitarian government always requires nearly the same methods, even revenge of the previous dictators. Europe had to defang the Catholics, it took Russia a bit longer to cast their mad monks off as ruling class pricks.

You know your shit but let's not go the way of the Right in America who are trying to portray the French Revolutions casting off their oppressors as a bad thing for the people. It was Frances first taste of free law and existence. Related church practices by the by.

Yes, Stalin Russia pushed that religion is bad. Not a hard assessment, especially then.

old comment by Bashkim

@Phil O'Macedon

Once again, the fact that Stalin repressed other groups, or that it was 'just the tip of the iceberg' doesn't alter the fact that they specifically targeted the religious, and specifically in the name of anti-theism. This was not only during the Great Purge, but also during the 1920s. I never said they were the 'main attraction', but it's undeniable that this took place.

"Did you know that Stalin eased up extremely on religion during "The Great Patriotic War" because he belatedly realized its morale value?"

Yes I did in fact know that, and I suspected you would bring it up. Stalin softened a bit on Christianity during the war - because he wanted to rope in Christian national symbols for the war effort. But that was strictly pragmatic. After the war his line hardened again. In Eastern Europe the first victims of the first communist show trials were inter alia clerics. A huge big deal was made of encouraging atheism.

BTW I don;'t think the worse of atheism because of this (I'm atheist myaself from a mixed Catholic-Muslim background, I have no real emotional attachment to this topic) ...being an atheist doesn't automatically make people Stalinistss....but it's absurd to deny historical reality.

Since you correctly identify my name as Albanian, that leads me to another example. Atheism featured more strongly in Albanian communist ideology than in that of any other communist state. Albania declared itself the world's first atheist state. Any sign of religious belief, no matter how small, was punished with prison or death in the name of atheism. Even in formal terms, the penal code made even possession of religious literature punishable by imprisonment. Even giving your child a Muslim or Biblical name was risky. During those years, the government liquidated virtually all the clergy of the country in the name of atheism. Every mosque or church in the country pretty much was destroyed (or turned into a museum or sports hall if it was lucky).

old comment by CantStumpTheTrump

@Bashkim

Hmm a western leftist patronizing an Albanian and "minimizing" his experiences?

Looks like the enlightened western leftist didn't "check his privilege". LOL!

I'm kidding of course, but I love using SJW tactics against them. Might be the only way they'll ever learn.

@NonProphet

"I find it funny that CantStumpTheTrump keeps insisting on referring to the "socialism" part of "National Socialist" (which was, in fact, fascist rather than socialist) as if Hitler was some left-wing liberal.

The Nazis were about as socialist as the Democratic People's Republic of North Korea is a democratic republic."

Regardless of those differences, they are both collectivist ideologies. That is the group as a whole matters more than the individual citizen.

There wasn't exactly a free market either. Major industries were nationalized, businesses were only allowed to function as long as they served the country's interest.

old comment by Anon-e-moose

The Communist Party of America still exists to this day. Joseph McCarthy died a pickled irrelevance, reviled by even his own president, Eisenhower.

Not bad for 'Leftism', eh?

Three Labour MPs returned to Parliament with increased majorities; the anti-immigration & rightist neo-Nazi National Front & UKRAP got nowhere. Siemens of Germany expanding it's wind turbine production facilities here. City of Culture in 2017. My local football team now in the Premier League.

Leftist & Politically Correct Hull. Your argument is invalid, CanStumpTheTrump.

The Communist Party of America in your country. Karl Marx in Highgate Cemetery here in the UK:

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Winston Churchill's state funeral in 1965. He appearing on the back of our new £5 note next year. The fact he had a more than infinite hatred of Hitler. Speaking as someone whose more than infinite hatred of everything & everyone right-wing is based on the real Antichrist Maggie Thatcher (*spit*), I can see where he's coming from.

The rightists' 'God' Hitler burned ignominiously in a pit: like the inferior subhuman he always was.

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Inferior Subhuman rightists still worship him to this day.

Strange then, that - unlike Hitler & his hatred of 'Bolshevism' - Churchill had no problem with Karl Marx's 'Communist Plot' in Highgate Cemetery.

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/bust-of-winston-churchill-israel-s-forgotten-friend-unveiled-in-jerusalem-1.474111#!

'Winston Churchill was probably the most prominent non-Jewish supporter of the Zionist movement throughout the first half of the 20th century'

'Even before Adolf Hitler came to power in Germany in 1933, Churchill was one of the most adamant voices in Europe warning against the threat Hitler posed, citing mainly his anti-Jewish policies.'

Strange then: that for a Conservative such as he was, he certainly had no problem with Jews.

It's a case by case basis.

And in this case, as Hitler was a rightist, otherwise what was stopping him from being a proto-Willy Brandt: a Social Democrat?

Least of all not allowing any form of adoration - least of all worship, 'Cult of Personality' style - of himself. Why didn't he have 'Hitler Mit Uns' on those buckles?

Why doesn't Donald Fart forbid any kind of adoration of him...?!

He clearly can be Stumped. Otherwise, his invincibility wouldn't require your constant need to 'argue' against any perceived leftist 'Propaganda', as it is inevitable that your precious God-Emperor with hair of clay will get to the White House with a landslide majority. To the extent that the Democrats will be reduced to almost nothing, the Repubicans will rule over both houses in Capitol Hill, and Wiggy's word will be law, as he is elected president.

...won't he? So why ARE you here then, if any 'Propaganda' here in FSTDT will be to no avail against your invincible God-Emperor of you rightists: because your way of thinking is soooooo 'superior', you'd just sit back and wait for that inevitable result to happen.

Why so insecure that you need to feel so afraid of any perceived 'Propaganda', if - in terms of effect against your precious Wiggy - it'll be just like BBs fired at an M1 Abrams?

old comment by Phil O'Macedon

@ Canadiest-- right you are, but a Church hierarchy being allied with a secular nobility that was nothing more than a dual feudal system was in place for a long time. The stability provided by those who defended (when it suited them) and those who ensured salvation (nominally all the time as long as you literally thought what they told you to think) originated in the dark ages and this dual system of running the lives of the subjected ran all the way to the early 20th century with only mild revisions on the church side. The "tripartite" division of human society: those who work, those who fight, and those who pray was so long established that it had a social inertia that ensured it lasted longer than it should have. The real breakdown ,of course, was education and the centralization of monarchial power starting in and continuing after the Renaissance. The ecclesiarchs were still present but distal from the seat of power, except in Italy where they were sometimes killing each other to be pope. By the time Louis XIV uttered the words L'etat c'est moi, the church outside of Italy was useful to western rulers, and potentially problematic if its leaders disagreed with the nobility beyond a degree, but generally taught to sit, heel, and roll over on command. And so it went and so it goes, even today.( For this little mental jaunt I'm ignoring the reformation, and the French revolution was really just a hiccup for European Xtianity.) Canadiest asked me to comment on Russia regarding this subject. The story as I understand it is like this, the Russian Orthodox Church,(excluding the possibility of a few talented intellectual social climbers) was composed of non inheriting scions of the nobility. Just exactly like in the middle ages, but with fewer advancement opportunities for non-nobles. Russia managed a system of purest church-nobility fuedalism into the 20th century with a totally copacetic relationship between the nobility and the Orthodox Church because they were essentially the same group. This group, however kept the unlanded class of Russia de jure in serfdom until 1861 and de facto till the revolution. Those who don't own, do what those who do own say, or die of starvation. Like in the middle ages. The religious and noble owners of all they surveyed cheerfuly kept this rolling on till the revolution ended the party. Not that there wasn't a group of communist true believers ready to set up another party.

Ray Comfort #fundie facebook.com

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