Blood is not thicker than religion. You should get Christians out of your family and your life as quickly as you can. They're corroding and destructive influences on your atheism, and they're always trying to deceive you.
62 comments
@Hu's On First
Nah, just NeoMatrix
Okay, I have learned two things today:
1) NeoMatrix' real name is Eric,
and
2) Apparently my 80-year old widowed grandmother is part of some secret cabal out to eat away at my disbelief in magic.
that's... really not how atheism normally works. for most of us, it's not the sort of thing that even CAN be "corroded". not short of active brainwashing anyway, and even i won't claim more than a very few fringe cults do that sort of thing.
They're corroding and destructive influences on your atheism, and they're always trying to deceive you
Meanwhile in Westminster Abbey, the central place of worship of the Church of England:
image
I've posted the above pic many times previously. But someone hasn't got the message yet.
corroding and destructive influences on your atheism
Actually, I'd say Christianity is the main supporting force for my atheism.
@Nomen Nescio
The reason I'm suggesting getting away from Christians is that they will inevitably do the same to you. Remember, atheism has no place in Christian ideology, and any thoughtcrime against Christians leads to people like atheists and LGBT individuals being cast out as sinners and demons. My suggestion is that you break away from them first so you can embrace science instead. If you take action, they'll realize that you mean business and that you won't stand for their fantasies. You will never be good enough for them or become friendly to them, so why bother?
I remember first giving this suggestion to a friend of mine I met back in college. He was gay you see, and his parents didn't like it, so they cut off a lot of his finances and income. I recommended to him that he abandon them entirely - he didn't, and that was his personal choice, but to this day I don't understand why he didn't. His parents didn't love him and obviously were bad influences on his life.
@Kuyohashi
@NeoMatrix
So, then, I should cut my loving, supportive, awesome Christian mother who doesn't judge me for being an atheist out of my life? Along with all the other Christians I know that are just good people, while I'm at it?
Uh, I think I'll pass on that suggestion, thank you very much.
By the way, my mother was probably the happiest out anyone I personally know about the Obergefell decision.
@NeoMatrix I understand that possition is said christians are bigots and homophobic fundies, but if the christians in your family are part of the minority of decent people (yes, decent religious people are rare, but they do exist) then there's no reason to.
As a gay atheist, I disagree with you almost entirely.
Sure, cut out toxic relatives. I've never believed in the sanctity of mere genetic connection, and believe that love and respect (even familial) is earned, not unconditional. But moderate theists aren't toxic.
@AnonAtheist
OK, I gotta take issue with one thing you said, even though I think you have a good point there, mostly.
"Decent religious people" are NOT rare. For one thing, there's what I was just alluding to, how I personally know a lot of Christians who are good people.
Hmm....I'll ask you this: Do you think I'm decent? I'm religious. I'm a Satanist. (it's a n atheist/agnostic religion, but it's a religion)
Sounds an awful lot like the way christian fundies describe "satanic" influences such as atheists, other religions, other christian sects, 4th grade biology courses and Pokemon cards.
@KingOfRhye In my experience, decent religious people are rare, but not non-existant. I have known decent muslims, and decent christians, but they where few and far between. As for if I think your decent, I have no fucking idea. I've never met you. Of the religious people I have met, very few where decent, with about 80% belonging on this board which is why I say that they're rare it's also one of the major reasons I'm an atheist.
Having said that, I agree with broad strokes of both NeoMatrix's original thesis that atheists and LGBT people should cut toxic religious influences from their lives, and the broad strokes of people who disagree with him. I'm just gonna come out and say that this shouldn't aply to ALL religious people. The rare decent ones should get a free pass.
@Neo
Just make it plain that "No thanks, I don't care to accompany you to church, but have a nice time, Mom. I'll turn on the oven at eleven and lunch will be ready when you get home." Seriously, give that a try for a while instead of the surly-young-man resentment, and see if they learn to see you as someone who acts rather than as someone who reacts. Firm and friendly.
If it doesn't work, I'm sorry you have the stubborn and recalcitrant flavor of christianity in the family. But be sincere with the "firm and friendly" for a while, and see if that works. If you want them to treat you as an adult who has made up his own mind, you have to act the part of that adult.
You'll never poke a pinhole in their closed-loop delusion by running away from them.
"If you want to find a Granfalloon, remove the skin from a toy balloon." - Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle
@NeoMatrix
Okay, Eric, defensive loving grandson mode activated, so forgive me if I come off as a bit harsh, but fuck you, that's my fucking Oma you're talking about. The woman stood up to the fucking Nazis when they occupied her country, she could take you in a New York fucking minute. As for wiping out Non-Christians in the US, that would have been quite a trick, since she's never, to the best of my knowledge, been to the US, nor voted for the Lesser American Orangatan, given that we're fucking Dutch-Canadian.
I'm sure you see yourself as some noble protector of the Lack-Of-Faith, but son, you do not badmouth a man's Oma. That is the right way to an ass-kicking, and she has three farmboy sons and nine grandsons more than happy to do the job.
@AnonAtheist
From my own experience, the majority of christians do try to be decent human beings. The only problem is so many of them have been told that the atheist is evil incarnate, and they're rarely given room to question their values and beliefs, so they just never bother stepping forward when another member is hurling abuse. There's a reason our churches seems more willing to associate with poor kids in Africa then the city we live in.
I've found over the years something that you guys have probably figured out, but the church still needs to learn. Question what the bible says. You don't just read it and learn to regurgitate it mindlessly. If that means accepting that the guy who wrote it had some blatantly wrong ideas, then so be it. Otherwise, you get beliefs that rival the quotes we've stored on this website.
@Doubting Thomas
They will never, ever see you as nothing more than a monster.
@Kuyohashi
My local atheist Meetup group had a guy like this - perhaps not surprisingly, he was also a libertarian, but was always calling for help moving his belongings out of various failed lining arrangements.
Blood may not be thicker than religion, but neither one comes close to the thickness of Neo's head.
Eliminate the toxic people from your life, based on their words & actions. Not superstition. Even a crank like me can see that.
I'll be visiting my best friend in Surrey next month.
He's a long-time Church of England Christian .
So how can you reconcile that with the fact that he's a collector/player of RPGs/tabletop wargames, Sci-Fi & Fantasy books/films/TV series, and anything to do with his favourite animals, Wolves: including documentaries on VHS/DVD, and books: including their evolution .
He's never tried to push his faith on me. 'Deceive' me? Why hasn't he tried to do so, since we first met - at a military museum (as he was a writer for a military magazine at the time, prior to becoming an adminstrator at the Ministry of Defence) - in 1990?
Your call.
"Trump is the result of trying to play nice with Christians" is an erroneous sentiment.
Trump is the result of a massive backlash against "SJWs" (you know, like you tend to complain about) and "PC Culture" (you know, like you tend to complain about ) as well as the longest smear campaign I've ever seen in my entire life against a woman before she even managed to decide to run for president.
That, combined with the fact that Trump won enough key states that, even though he lost the popular vote by quite a bit, he won the electoral college, is what won Trump the election.
Religion only had a minor impact in this. Because a lot of atheists of the "too smart to be PC" category voted for Trump, and the only difference between you and them is that, well, you're actually becoming more of a "religious extremist" yourself, minus the religion.
If anything, it's the anti-SJWs you should be blaming, not Christians. Don't be a fundie and start scapegoating a convenient enemy of yours.
@Some_Christian_Anon A good freind of mine made the mistake of kissing her girl friend in the park while a church softball league was playing nearby. Later that same night she was vicously attacked and gang beaten with bats. Her spine was beaten so badly she is now in a wheelchair for life. Her own family, because of their religion tried to make it out like it was somehow "her fault" because she was a lesbian. That's what I mean when I say that, in my experience decent religious people are rare.
@NeoMatrix
"B-B-BUT MUH TRUMP SUPPORTERS"
God, you're pathetic. And this is coming from someone who has a low opinion of Trump and his followers.
@NeoMatrix
@Zachski
@AnonAtheist
@NeoMatrix not all christians. Note I said that decent religious people are rare, not non-existant. But yes, personally knowing a victim of religion makes it harder to ignore the dangers or religion. Even so, I do know some christians and muslims who have been decent people, just misguided, so I wouldn't push them out of my life, but nor would I ignore the threat religion represents. My enemy is an ideology, not the poor misguided people who get caught up in it.
nearly every Christian in the US voted from [sic] [Trump]
Religion is a set of ideas, it's not even tangible. Blood is much thicker than ideas.
Non-Christians and atheists also deceive you. There are bad people in all groups, and there are good people in all groups.
@Zachski
@Swede
THX 1138
Well you count the people Trump appointed to his cabinet as attacks against atheists then he has. Jeff Sessions has even said that Atheists are not covered by the constitution (he later back petaled.) not in those exact words.
A man should be judged by the company he keeps and the company Trump keeps as president are very pro fundamentalist Christianity, very pro tea party republican, and very pro big business, at the cost of everyone else.
Now Trump hasn't done any damage yet because the courts and the constitution are not in his favor but he is trying.
@Creativerealms
@Shepherd Solus
We did have someone on here under various names legitimately believe that
I wonder if NeoMatrix knows that many Christians are democrats. One of my best friends from college ended up convincing me to vote Kerry in 2004 rather than the libertarian candidate. There are Christians of the Rapture Ready sort who do seem to worship Trump but saying they represent all Christians is like saying the atheists who go around wanting to lock up those that are religious represent all atheists. It's not even close to true. Neither group is represented by the worst in the group
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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