Quote# 125554

[Comment under "Ranked Societies"]

@Jaegerss:
how they work


Your rank with in society would decide what rights you have, and how much you are allowed to earn and own. Moving between the ranks depends on your occupation, worth to society and the feats you have accomplished, for example a person from one of the lower ranks who invents a great invention would be upgraded to one of the higher ranks of society.

@Jaegerss:
how muchs ranks there would be


It depends on the person, I personally think 6-10 ranks is enough, but some people argue for more or less ranks.

@Jaegerss:
Any example of their implementation would also be appreciated.


I don't think a pure ranked system like some fascists advocate has been implemented yet, but close examples could be ancient Greece and Rome, and other ancient societies.

tizbit, Reddit - r/DebateFascism 23 Comments [3/20/2017 2:22:28 PM]
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Submitted By: JeanP
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Nicole

Because engineering is gonna be something that people of lower rank are gonna be allowed to do.

3/20/2017 2:30:04 PM

Gabriel LaVedier

And then one compassionate person shrugs off his privileged blinders while meeting one angry low-ranked person with nothing to lose and we get ourselves a new John Brown with better weapons. I'm all for it as long as you agree to be on the front lines and prove your superior manly manliness by going without armor or projectile weapons.

3/20/2017 2:52:06 PM

Uilleam

The closest I can think of for this in practice is the Indian Hindu caste system, and we all know how much shit that causes.

3/20/2017 2:52:41 PM

Ambulance Chaser

Isn't this just what we have now, except MORE rigid?

3/20/2017 3:09:08 PM



What he's suggesting doesn't appear to be a caste system. (At least not based on what's shown here, I don't feel like checking the source.) Rather what one has is a "citizen rank" which can be increased or decreased based on certain arbitrary standards. Presumably it wouldn't be directly tied to one's occupation, though some occupations might require a certain minimum rank. Unlike a caste system, which one's social rank and available occupations are fixed from birth.

In theory, this could be not too different from what we have already, mostly formalized. In practice... Wanna bet that such a system would be designed to allow the rich to "fast-track" their kids through the ranks, would blatantly discriminate against anyone who isn't a white male, and would strongly favor sociopathic behavior?

3/20/2017 3:32:00 PM

Kid Cthulhu

You beat me to it, Uilleam...

3/20/2017 3:56:31 PM



#2033003 :
Sound a bit like "Caves of Steel" , no?

3/20/2017 4:44:53 PM

No One In Particular

This sounds exactly like our current system, only worse. Why change it for the worse?

3/20/2017 4:49:18 PM

THX 1138

I find it funny how he thinks he'd end up in a high rank, or that there wouldn't be an uprising by the inevitibally abused lower classes.

3/20/2017 5:17:18 PM

Uilleam

I personally believe those going "lol how is this any different to what we have now lol" are being overly harsh on the modern world. The class system as it exists now has plenty of faults, that can't be denied (unless you're a rich asshole with no compassion), but it's light years better than how it was just a hundred years ago and even that wouldn't quite be on the level of tizbit's suggestion. Plus, I think there's a part of human nature that naturally gravitates towards a certain degree of class structure - probably the same part that makes us inherently competitive. You try to remove that by force, you end up with communism, and we all know how that went for the countries that tried it.

3/20/2017 5:49:43 PM

Kuyohashi

D'awwww, that's so cute, the chopper-tossers want to bring back the caste system. Alright, you boys go play Mussolini and the Hemp-Fiber Necktie over by the lamppost, we grown-ups have some civilizationing to do.

3/20/2017 6:05:47 PM

Insult to Rocks

So, how long do I have to grind to rank up to rank 6?

3/20/2017 7:10:25 PM

Kanna

How you rank people in your own mind is your business, but we wish you all success as you endeavor to outgrow that pastime. But the minute you discuss "implementation", that marks you as someone who bears watching - and not in a good way.

3/20/2017 9:56:19 PM

pip

Then we can have an upper rank that are all inbred cousins who start world wars through competition with each other. Mmm, sounds familiar.

3/21/2017 6:42:50 AM

Tempus

@THX 1138: For once, I'd like to see comments from someone advocating this kind of shit who acknowledges that most likely he'd be at the bottom of the shitheap, and is totally okay with it. I know they exist because I've talked to one or two in reality.

3/21/2017 9:55:40 AM

Mister Spak

In the Dungeons & Dragons fantasy roleplaying game, Mechanus, also known as The Clockwork Nirvana of Mechanus (or simply Nirvana in AD&D 1st Edition) is a purely lawful aligned plane of existence. It is one of a number of alignment-based Outer Planes that form part of the standard Dungeons & Dragons (D&D) cosmology, used in Greyhawk, Planescape and some editions of the Forgotten Realms campaign settings.

It is the plane of ultimate law and order (neutral or chaotic creatures take -2 penalty on Charisma, Intelligence and Wisdom-based checks), where the souls of people of lawful neutral alignment go after death. Mechanus operates on a strict schedule where every action is planned, measured and controlled perfectly. It is home to the construct-like geometric modrons, the law-enforcing inevitables and the regimented giant ants called formians.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanus



3/21/2017 11:04:24 AM

Pharaoh Bastethotep

It depends on the person, I personally think 6-10 ranks is enough, but some people argue for more or less ranks.

Only 6-10 ranks? You definitively need a higher level cap!

Also, what Uilleam said.

3/21/2017 11:55:37 AM

Anon-e-moose

The Minbari have a caste system: Warrior, Worker, Religious.

Yet, they're all equal.

They fought against the Fascism that was the Shadows. And the Vorlons.

Remember a little something called WWII: analogous to the final Shadow War in "Babylon 5"?

As Capt. Sheridan did with the last of the 'First Ones', we told your precious Shitler to 'Get the hell out of our galaxy'. Fortunately, he did.

You are like the Drakh: butthurt that your 'Masters' left you.

3/21/2017 12:49:50 PM

Meeeh

I bet most of these fascists think they will be in the upper ranks while in reality, they would occupy the lowest ranks.

3/21/2017 1:08:06 PM

ChrisBP747

The question is: What the hell has a ranking system to do with fascism? That really is kind of a problem today: No one knows what fascism entails anymore and this makes it hard to fight it.
Back to the point. Fascists wouldn't want such a "rational" structure. Fascists want strong leaders and weak followers. Doubt or criticism is equal to treason in the eye of a fascist, so how should any rational assessment of who should climb up a rank work? It wouldn't. Idiots who follow orders or manipulative bastards playing the system would rise and society would begin to weaken because of incompetency at the top. Hitler for example was great at manipulating the masses. But he was horribly incompetent in war strategy. But since he was the Führer and only people who were loyal (speak uncritical) to him were promoted to his staff no one questioned his orders. And as such he made quite a few devastating mistakes which fortunately (among other things) led to the Germany losing WW2.
How can you debate fascism if you don't know anything about it?

3/21/2017 1:15:56 PM

Demon Duck of Doom

You assume you'll be in the high caste.

3/21/2017 3:03:13 PM

Mathius_dragoon

I'm all for meritocracy if that's what you mean but putting put into strict "levels" would create more problems then it would solve, to put it lightly.

Also, to follow up on multiple commenters observation:

Mrs. Asimov: How pleasant it would be if only we lived a hundred years ago when it was easy to get servants.
Isaac Asimov: It would be horrible... We'd be the servants.

3/21/2017 4:58:00 PM

THX 1138

@Tempus
Would they by any chance also be the "eugenics for the greatest good" kind of people?

3/22/2017 5:57:36 PM

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