Quote# 131477

you are working off a fantasy in your mind because you reject God .......... if there is no God then there is no objective morality .... if there is no objective morality ..... then it is ALL just your opinion .... no matter who or how many you may convince to agree with you .... if there is no God .....

1. The Nazis were not wrong - its just your opinion

2. Love is no better than rape - might be unfashionable but not wrong

3. Blowing up innocent people watching a marathon is no morally
different than feeding the poor - it just your opinion

4. Religious crusades are not wrong - because there is no standard for
righteousness

5. Tolerance is no better than intolerance - why tolerate anything

6. There are no human rights - it is just your opinion

7. Atheist cannot justify morality

Amos Moses, Christian News Network 25 Comments [9/10/2017 1:02:14 AM]
Fundie Index: 6

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Pharaoh Bastethotep

if there is no God then there is no objective morality

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

9/10/2017 1:04:04 AM

SomeApe

Again with the plagiarizing:

http://picbear.com/bibleman_1

Edit: Now, it's gone.

9/10/2017 1:06:03 AM

Happy Atheist

Even if there is no objective morality, there is still subjective morality. Things are still right and wrong, just subjectively.

To the Nazis, the Nazis were indeed not wrong. To the rest of us, they were.

To an unstable, violent sociopath, love may not be better than rape. To the rest of us, it is.

To a terrorist, blowing up people perceived to be the enemy would be a highly moral act. To the rest of us, it is abhorrent.

To crusaders, killing people perceived to be the enemy would be a highly moral act. To the rest of us, it is abhorrent.

To the selfish, tolerance is worse than intolerance. To the rest of us, tolerance makes the greatest number of people happy.

Human rights, like laws, are created by us. That doesn't make them any less real.

And to counter your seventh point, see the above.

9/10/2017 1:10:46 AM

Malingspann

"if there is no God then there is no objective morality .... if there is no objective morality ..... then it is ALL just your opinion"

Does that mean that if there is a God, there is no objective morality, it is ALL just God's opinion?

Oh, of course! To anyone like Amos Moses, God's opinion IS objective morality.

9/10/2017 1:22:30 AM

Norman

If morality was objective wouldn't everyone have the same opinions about everything?

9/10/2017 1:25:18 AM

Pharaoh Bastethotep

...and ...,,,, random ........ overly ........................... long ................... e.....clip ........ ses ....................... would ...................... not ................be ............... wrong............................... - .............................. it .......... ..............s .................. just ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, your ..............................opinion ....................................

PS:
@Norman:
Extremists of all stripes often believe that their pet theories are self-evident and intuitively known to everyone, so anyone who disagrees is either lying/self-deceiving or brainwashed. Compare "False Consciousness" (Marxism) and "Blue Pill" (internet bigots).

9/10/2017 2:41:05 AM

Holey Head

Amos has some skeletons in his closest. He can't be a decent fucking human being without fear of sky-daddy!

9/10/2017 2:51:38 AM



There's no such thing as objective morality. There's no driving force out there telling us what is right and wrong. We as society decided what is right and wrong subjectively.

9/10/2017 4:57:17 AM

Jocasta McFucken

Now he's working from the WorldGoneCrazy playbook...if anyone remembers HIM. (And he is still around too...)

9/10/2017 5:20:21 AM

Quasirodent

...eclipses?

9/10/2017 6:18:21 AM

Kanna

Morality exists even in animals, as anyone can see who observes groups of animals for any length of time. It's the cost of living together, thus it's the cost of civilization. You seem to think that it's only god that keeps you from error. Try telling that to a traffic cop.

And once again, the lack of dots shows us exactly where you've cut and pasted from other authors.

9/10/2017 6:58:45 AM

Shepard Solus

Must be copied from someone else. It lacks his retarded watermark after every third or fourth word.

9/10/2017 9:55:43 AM

Salami

Genocide, especially when done under the reasoning of bettering the human race, is always wrong. It was wrong when people did it in the pre-biblical days, it was wrong when people did it in the post-biblical days, and it is wrong now. Yes its an opinion that some people deserve to genocided, but its not an opinion worth my respect or anybody else's.

And if morality cannot exist without God, explain Hammurabi's Code. It was carved into steles (think really big rocks) and tablets around 1754 BC in Babylonia, and is one of the earliest examples of an official law in a human civilization. Its important because while everybody had an idea of what was right and what was wrong, they didn't have any legal way of seeking justice. So they came up with their own, often violent, justice or just dealt somehow. Which has a tendency of reducing a civilization's population and causing a lot of stress. So Hammurabi, then the king of Babylonia, laid down what were to be considered suitable punishments for varying crimes as well as how much you should pay people for various jobs, how to handle divorces, and other stuff. He also established a police system and a very basic judiciary system (which was largely unfettered and not exactly the greatest, but still better than nothing). In fact, he considered himself, as the kings before him, as being chosen by God to take on God's task of enlightening civilization, and interpreted his task to do so as needing laws and law enforcement. Meanwhile, Judaism had yet to begin to form and wouldn't gain several of its key traits such as monotheism until hundreds of years later. And yet, Hammurabi was able to come up with a rather enlightened legal system that was very ahead of its time considering that he did the best he could think of to make the punishment fit the severity of the crime, set a minimum wage for the jobs at the time, and gave poor people a chance to actually bring the criminal to justice if they were a victim of a crime.

9/10/2017 10:22:47 AM

Philbert McAdamia

@ Quasirodent
...eclipses?

Sure, don't you remember the ellipse of the sun we just had,
when it went all ovate?

9/10/2017 10:26:35 AM

Phil O'Macedon

World history indicates that people do, and always have practiced moral and ethical treatment of their fellows in the complete absence of your particular favorite mythology. As usual Xtians attempt to lay claim to everything. Nice pathetic try.

9/10/2017 10:49:28 AM

Alencon

Morality is determined by what the majority determines to be morality and is willing to enforce.

9/10/2017 12:16:42 PM

Chloe

As opposed to what society considers moral? Because that's pretty much what it is.

9/10/2017 1:48:57 PM

Anon-e-moose

I think this covers all points...:



...objectively.

Because everyone else now knows you're a Nazi-lover, Amess.

Unless you'd like to deny that fact: but then, admit to everyone else that you are eternally wrong.

Enjoy your paradox.

9/10/2017 1:57:59 PM

Jocasta McFucken

Regarding point 7 - does it drive anyone else besides me COMPLETELY FUCKING INSANE when people don't know how to pluralize "atheists"?

It's like, oh look, a herd of atheist...

9/10/2017 8:26:53 PM

Bob J

@Jocasta - It a good thing Amos cut and pasted this, otherwise it would have been A-theist.

9/10/2017 9:20:14 PM

CrowFood

The full thread is interesting as Amos has been pushing goalposts. He seems to think that you either have objective morality or none. As with many things, he's got no response (literally won't answer) why God ordering genocide is OK.

9/11/2017 2:16:26 AM

Swede

Have you visited a sale of punctuation marks, or what?

No, WE are working with reality in our minds, because we reject imaginary friends.
God has no objective morality either, dearie.
We humans have agreed on a list of rights and freedoms, called Human Rights, or Civil Rights. Those are not opinions, those are part of an agreed contract, that all nations have signed.

Most people live by the Golden Rule, which is much more objective than God's supposed "morality". Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

1. I don't want to be annihilated - the Nazis were, and ARE, very, very wrong.
2. I don't want to be raped, but I want to be loved. Rape is bad, love is good.

Unfashionable? UNFASHIONABLE? Let's be a bit unfashionable to you and see how not wrong you find it, you horrible excuse for a human being.

3. Again, I don't want to be killed, so blowing up people is wrong.
4. Again, killing people is wrong.
5. Tolerance is a step towards love. Intolerance is close to hatred. Love feels better than hatred.
6. Like I said in the beginning, ALL countries have agreed on Human Rights, they are NOT opinion.
7. We CAN justify morality, you can not. The only thing you say is "because God says so". But God says "Go out and smite the Amalekites, man, woman, child, cow and sheep.". That's his opinion, is it?

9/11/2017 2:56:06 AM

Lauge

"#2094496
Swede

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

....unless you're into stuff with whips, chains, gags and stuff. The you might want to just ask first.

[q.v. the eighth of The Eight I'd Really Rather You Didn'ts].

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Luxembourg

9/11/2017 7:05:16 AM

Canadiest

1) Nazi: Not only Christian but a Christian based social order. Hitler and his crew were not bad Christian, they were supported by American Christians as well, they were bad people.
2) Bible has very little issue with rape, you could make a woman your wife by raping her. Ideas of love in the Bible are whack by todays civil standards.
3) Only a Theist would make a comparison like that, or a psychopath. often same guy.
4) No religious ones because passive peaceful religion don't do those. See psychopath
5) See psychopath
6) Just laws are just
7) I'm beginning to think we may be the only ones that can

9/11/2017 7:47:25 AM

conscience

Amos cannot understand morality. Or anything else

9/11/2017 9:46:53 AM

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