Quote# 137769

All those systems failed because they attempted to use the state to keep one ethnicity oppressed/segregated. That just doesn't work. The reason it doesn't work is that white people are very empathetic even pathologically altruistic.

Therefore, all you had to do to break apartheid, Jim crow south and English colonization is massive non violent protest which can easily be organized with a few communist infiltrators. South Africa and the American South were basically shamed and guilted by the rest of the world to give up their power and it all starts with communist subversion.

So if the Alt right wants an ethnostate it can't be a South Africa model it has to be an Israel Model. I.e. strict marriage laws, white only birthright citizenship, and tightly controlled borders.
So you can't really go back to a US ethnostate dream you have to find a part of the country (PNW?) that's 90% white and create a new constitution that from the get go controls borders and slowly eliminates non whites through very passive methods. You also have to force employers not to import cheap non citizen labor.
Let's call this new state 'Cascadia.'

Another tactic I'd use is to allow
white Cascadians to marry non whites on the condition that their children do not get voting citizenship until they grow up and marry a Cascadian. So if you do choose to have a mixed race child you're taking a risk; if they don't assimilate and don't get a citizen to marry them they have to live in society as non voting citizen until they have skin in the game (being married to a voting citizen). The children of those couples would get full citizenship because they are 75% white.
This seems like the most flexible non aggressive way to protect white demographic trends while at the same time not turning into a dangerous purity spiral.

If anyone is worried about non whites being mistreated that's bullshit. We have lot's of non-voting people on green cards in the US now and they aren't mistreated at all.

I would even be up for allowing some non white merit based immigration under certain circumstances but they'd again live as non voting citizens until they married.

JackGetsIt, Reddit 8 Comments [4/10/2018 7:52:04 AM]
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Happy Atheist

It would require more than finding a 90% white part of the country, but a 90% white nationalist part of the country. Two very different things.

4/10/2018 7:54:53 AM

Anon-e-moose

So you can't really go back to a US ethnostate dream you have to find a part of the country (PNW?) that's 90% white and create a new constitution that from the get go controls borders and slowly eliminates non whites through very passive methods. You also have to force employers not to import cheap non citizen labor.
Let's call this new state 'Cascadia.'


Many's the time I've said 'Don't watch "XYZ" film if you know what's good for you', but in this case I'll make an exception:

Watch the Ealing Comedy film "Passport to Pimlico", if you know what's good for you.

Good luck in finding any landmass that you can actually buy to create this Alt-Shite 'Utopia' of yours. Then there's the little matter of creating an infrastructure equal to that in the country you're currently living in.

Because as that film demonstrated, if you're an independent microstate within an existing country: what's to stop that country cutting off your electricity, gas: and water...?!

Can't eat, cook with & drink dreams. Just ask fellow Alt-Shitist Jon Ritzcracker & co: and he's still having to eat Bags of Dicks.

4/10/2018 8:26:46 AM

Prager

Jack doesn't Get It!

4/10/2018 8:54:03 AM

HS

@Anon-e-moose

Because as that film demonstrated, if you're an independent microstate within an existing country: what's to stop that country cutting off your electricity, gas: and water...?!


You know, I actually happen to have read a few books from Harold Covington's "Northwest Front" series, and in one of them, exactly this issue is addressed. There's a scene where, after creating their "White ethnostate" in the northwest, and realising that they can be easily sanctioned to hell and back and left to starve, our "heroes" devise a very cunning plan. A plan consisting of inviting 6 energy CEOs/oil barons to a teleconference, and, after tensions inevitably start to boil, have a member of their Mary Sue intelligence agency assasinate one of the CEOs, specifically the one who was most antagonistic to the "heroes". Because after 5+ years of continuous guerrilla warfare, during which they made it quite clear they want everyone not like them dead, threatening a few people with assasination, people who they made clear they want dead anyway, will apparently just cause those people to choose to betray their country so as not to harm the people , who, for years, have been killing people like them, people who have the nerve to threaten them with assasination despite already making it clear they want them dead anyway.

And I won't even seriously comment on the scene where a possible U.S. imposed travel ban is handwaved away because "liberals will be angry if they can't visit Aunt Mildred for holidays". Apparently, that's a strong enough reason for the U.S. not to choose to impose a travel ban on a country which was for years mercilessly killing U.S. citizens merely for daring to exist while not insane racist terrorist. Yeah, seriously.

Those books are retarded, is what I can say.

4/10/2018 10:31:05 AM

Vman

Hahaha, of course that an alt-rightist would get both history and present issues ridiculously wrong. I'll reply at length later today, when I'm on something less tedious to write long texts than a smartphone.

4/11/2018 1:24:53 AM

SomeApe

That's what you call "not turning into a dangerous purity spiral"?

4/11/2018 3:59:31 PM

Vman

All right, let's do this.

@JackGetsIt:
All those systems failed because they attempted to use the state to keep one ethnicity oppressed/segregated. That just doesn't work.


Wow, Jack actually does get it!

@JackGetsIt:
The reason it doesn't work is that white people are very empathetic even pathologically altruistic.


...or not. Definitely not.

@JackGetsIt:
South Africa and the American South were basically shamed and guilted by the rest of the world to give up their power and it all starts with communist subversion.


Heh heh. While I do wish it had been so, the unfortunate reality is that far too few white people in both of those places felt guilty about it (don't get me wrong though - some did). The actual main reasons for ending racial segregation were pragmatic, due to mounting internal and external pressure.
Let's start with South Africa.

In 1992, a whites-only referendum was held in South Africa, in which two thirds of South African white voters decided to end apartheid (which was finalized in 1994). Fear was a major factor - on both sides of the vote. The side you (Jack) favor was indeed afraid that a takeover not only by blacks, but by actual communists would follow, thus spelling disaster for the white population. The other side, which campaigned to end apartheid - included and was indeed led by the apartheid government itself.

The government, of course, did not want to relinquish power to the ANC and the black majority. To suggest they did so out of guilt is laughable. No, they did so because they knew that the alternative was even worse.
Let's take a look at the new situation they found themselves in back then:

1) The Cold War had just ended. While South Africa had been under sanctions for quite a while by then, they could and did find ways around some of them, partly due to the fact that countries like the USA and the UK were willing to drag their feet regarding South Africa. As usual, the reason were the apartheid government's genuine anti-communist 'credentials'.
However, by 1992 the Cold War had ended, and suddenly South Africa was no longer useful. Now it was just a liability, a shitstain upon the face of the Earth that was a source of continuing embarrassment for the West. It had no friends, and the world's remaining tolerance for its system was running out fast.

2) The previous few years were marked by growing political violence. The neo-Nazi Afrikaner Weerstandsbeweging (AWB) was beating the shit out of people left and right, finally taking aim even against officials of the apartheid government; on the other side, the ANC was losing patience and seemed to seriously be considering outright war unless the government budged and started seriously negotiating.

And the government sure knew what war with the black majority would mean. They had ample time to see how that went for neighboring Rhodesia - the only other similar apartheid country. The whites there thought they could beat their blacks into submission. They failed. They died for nothing, and in the process ended up making a whole lot of angry black people which would later bite them in the ass (note: I don't condone Mugabe's or his fans' actions in any way).

Most white South Africans were smart enough to choose the option which wouldn't end in a bloodbath (and eventually their defeat). Fortunately, they had a willing partner in the form of Mandela and enough people who were willing to follow his example.

On a side note, here's the AWB's flag, because they are* wonderfully obvious and upfront regarding who their idols are:

* yes, are; they still exist and the oh-so-horribly repressive South Africa has not banned them!



Also, their emblem:



Anyway, let's move on - on to the American South.

I won't say much; besides, the Americans (and perhaps others) here can speak much better about the topic. Suffice to say that the white majority there at the time wasn't happy at having to give up their Jim Crow laws; they had to be "persuaded" through the application of the legal and sometimes armed forces of the US government. These southern whites had to be dragged kicking and screaming into civilization, where laws actually treat people of different skin pigmentation as human beings. (oh, the horror!)

@JackGetsIt:
So if the Alt right wants an ethnostate it can't be a South Africa model it has to be an Israel Model.


*headdesk* You went there. But of course, why put bounds on the level of your idiocy and ignorance?

@JackGetsIt:
I.e. strict marriage laws, white only birthright citizenship, and tightly controlled borders.


1) These 'strict marriage laws' are an endless source of tension within Israeli society. For one, secular Israelis (the largest Jewish group!) are far from happy at having to at times abide by the fundies' playbook. Secondly, there indeed is no civil marriage within the State of Israel. But only *within*. See, they have this deliberate loophole where they accept marriages - civil or otherwise - conducted in other jurisdictions. Meaning, you can, say, go to Cyprus for a weekend, marry someone from another religious group, come back to Israel with your marriage certificate and the authorities will ok it, no problem.
So basically, the fundies have a marriage law they like, but only on paper. This is not perfect as far as we liberals are concerned, but it's hardly the 'strict segregation' you imagine.

2) You are of course referring to the fact that Jews born anywhere in the world may obtain Israeli citizenship and move to Israel. That much is true. But this is nothing special - many European countries that are defined as nation-states have something similar.
Other (non-Jewish) people can also move to Israel and become citizens (unless they're from a country that has hostile relations with Israel). It's just that the process is not that simple and short for them. Again, hardly unique.
Arab Israelis (those living within the pre-1967 borders, that is, the internationally recognized borders of Israel) are... guess what? Israeli citizens by birth. Not quite your ideal vision of an ethnonationalist paradise, eh?

And what is this bit about "white only birthright citizenship"? I hope that you're just applying (wrongfully) the Israeli example to a different (white nationalist) context, rather than suggesting that Israeli birthright citizenship is whites-only. Because if it's the latter, you're even more stupendously ignorant than I thought.

See, about 60% of Israeli Jews are of at least partial Mizrahi descent. (Mizrahi Jews refers to Jews who came to Israel from the Middle East, and the term is sometimes extended to include North African Jews)
These Jews tend to look like the other people from these countries - so, like your average Arab, Iranian etc. So, your chosen beacon of a country is mostly brown. Whoops.

That is not to say that Mizrahi Jews, and even more so Ethiopian Jews (who are very much black) don't experience racism. They certainly did and still do, and it's a major sore point and source of tension. But mainstream society frowns upon such mistreatment.
That Arabs (especially Palestinians) can be treated like shit is of course a matter of common knowledge for any Westerner who doesn't live under a rock. However, their skin tone tends to matter a lot less than their religion and ethnicity. When Lehava thugs harass and attack them, it won't be because they're brown; it'll be because they speak with an Arabic accent. (indeed, your skin can be lily-white, but if you're wearing a hijab...)

@JackGetsIt:
So you can't really go back to a US ethnostate dream you have to find a part of the country (PNW?) that's 90% white and create a new constitution that from the get go controls borders and slowly eliminates non whites through very passive methods. You also have to force employers not to import cheap non citizen labor.


Heh, good luck with that. I can already imagine the reaction from Seattle and Portland to your idea:



Worse, you'd have the full force of the US government against you. You know, once upon a time a whole bunch of states did try to secede... and fell on their face. They did manage to get Jim Crow after a while, as a poor man's substitute for slavery - but even that got nuked in the 60s. And all their tears and tantrums were useless in the face of Washington's "Deal. with. it."


Feel free to imagine the sweet sound of LBJ laughing in your face.

And not only do you intend to go directly against the rest of the USA, you even want to launch an attack against capitalism itself at the same time and win. That sort of bravado is impressively delusional... and dumb as a sack of bricks.

@JackGetsIt:
Let's call this new state 'Cascadia.'


And its political system we shall name 'idiocracy'.

Well, that's all the time I'm willing to spend on this pile of steaming feces. Jack won't benefit from it anyway; indeed, with his erudition, it would be appropriate indeed if he renamed to 'JackDoesn'tGetADamnThing'.

4/11/2018 4:08:43 PM



The most appropriate palce for a "white" ethnostate would be in South Africa. 400 years of bad blood on both sides has left the Afrikaners, their coloured communities, and other European communities kind of in the hands of a cultural seperatist movement, similar to quebecois movements. They just don't have their quebec. And to be far to the white South Africans, having to check your cars and garbage bins every day for bombs and teach your children what landlines look like can be frustrating, and can make social progress seem less appealing.

8/3/2018 6:19:45 PM

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