[NOTE: Those are the most fundie-ish comments I could find on a well-known AMA thread on Reddit done by a man who had a sexual relationship with his mother since he was 14, up to when he went to the university]
If OP was a girl and had sex with her father, it wouldn't even be a question that this is wrong. Societal sexism: "because boys are so sexual, it's not really abuse if a mother fellates her son".
Replies_With_GIFs never said that it wasn't wrong.
I'm sure there are plenty of people who get off about hearing about father-daughter incest as well. They're just much less likely to voice it, because we're conditioned to think of girls as victims of sex, while males are active pursuants/participants thereof.
You're really raging about society's attitude that any time a guy gets some, it is positive (unless violent rape). That's all sorts of intertwined with tons of other social attitudes---including the ones where sexual prowess is the mark of a "real man" but the mark of a "fallen woman." The fact is that we support all of these fucking attitudes every single day with the random shit we say. Feel free to pick out one specific thing and bitch about it, but if you've ever made any sort of "doesn't matter, had sex" joke or maligned a male friend for not "manning up"/getting some or called any woman names for dressing/acting provocatively, then you've helped perpetuate the same thing that you're ranting about here.
The only argument you have is "fucking a relative is wrong." which you tie onto "manipulation." Well if you read about his experience, he feels he wasn't manipulated, and claims several things such as
she asked if he wanted to start
she asked him if he wanted to continue
she didnt give him special treatment or let the sexual part of the relationship spill into the other parts of his life
they are open to communicating about this on the dinner table
if he wanted to stop at any time, he could have
point is, you look at it as someone was brainwashed into liking something they wouldn't "naturally" like. Problem is there is no 100% absolutely natural whatever for everyone, I feel like this is a case of "gays are fucked up bc its not natural and its manipulation and people are being brainwashed into thinking its good." Not all people will have the same sexual boundaries as we do, and there are always so many exceptions because of hormonal exposure in the womb, genetics, etc. Freud often illustrated the oedipal complex which involves love for the mother and hate for the father, he says it a "complex" but I think the point to bringing up this concept is to show that it is prevalent in our society and that the desire for sexual intercourse with the mother isn't so farfetched and wrong as it sounds.
I think if this were reversed, dad on girl, if they both consented just properly and dealt with it like OP did with his mom...sounds fine to me. Let's say a brother and sister have sexual intercourse once...and use condoms and are on the pill and find it a great and fascinating experience. Would it be wrong? This is a question that is often asked in a lot of philosophy classes (of sexuality, morality) because there is no absolutely right answer, it stirrs up all sorts of controversy and discussion. but the point of bringing that up is that it shows that we are biased by simple concepts (incest) that bring about negative emotions about the possible repercussions (incest baby) but when you remove those negative repercussions, the negative emotions stay and when you point out that the emotions no longer have basis, you then question your beliefs.
I'm sorry about your rape at age 12 but this is a completely different issue and I feel that your feelings are clouding your judgment on a completely different issue with completely different circumstances :( Funny thing is, we can never be sure, because we didn't experience his experience...so you can't argue this 100% thing as much as I can't argue this is 100% okay...but I feel like I have better chances than you do.
Thank you so much for reading through this. I just really hate this mentality of generalizing and bias. I hope you got something good out of my response.
A 14 year old boy does not know what he wants. I was a 14 year old boy once too. Maybe 1/100 boys are truly able to consent at 14, but a majority isn't.
That's all. A 14 year old cannot consent. Not to mention, it's his fucking mother, whom he's been conditioned to trust as his protector. You cannot consent to anyone at age 14, let alone your MOM.
Is it so hard to accept that sex with a trusting and loving mother is not a bad thing? Just because it violates your societal norms doesn't make it bad. If he gained positivity out of it, who are you to argue that it was wrong?
Lots of 14 year olds consent to sex with each other. By your argument, they shouldn't even be allowed to consent to other people of their own age. But they do it anyways, and they're just fine. Sure, it's is mother, but it's not he was on the fence about it, or feeling wrong about it, he was attracted to her from before this (i can fish the quote for you if you want.)
Everyone's different. Some people think incest is wrong no matter what, some people think gay sex is wrong no matter what, some people think anal sex is wrong. Things are different now. There is very little universal morality, and our basis for moralities are being twisted all the time. Human history has seen weirder sexual shit than this. Just trying to get you to understand him. Not project your own feelings onto a different situation.
Sex with a child IS harmful. Just because the child doesn't see it that way, doesn't mean that it isn't. The adult is twisting and perverting an innocent relationship just to get his or her jollies off. This is regardless of how the "child" feels about it.
I didn't say that isn't what the adult is doing, I completely agree with you there. But I think it is more harmful to try and make the child feel bad about it if they do not. Why do you not want to consider what the child feels?
Once upon a time it was normal for children to be married at 14. Some 12/13/14 years olds have sex with others of a similar age. Some 12 year olds are more mature than some 17 year olds. All I am saying is that while the adult is ALWAYS at fault SOME 13 or 14 year olds WILL have the capacity to consent fully and will not be harmed by it. Some not all. We really have to take it on a case by case basis (from the child's point of view only).
People need to stop trying to make the OP feel bad and ashamed by his experiences at the hands of a dangerous adult. Nobody has the right to tell him how he SHOULD feel.
I disagree, although not in a million fucking years would I EVER do this. I think your stating how it would be for you, because you can't actually know how the OP feels. I see where you are coming from, but I also don't think I quite agree with you. I'm very open minded, if the OP did actually have a positive outcome from this then I think more power to him in life.
What a self-righteous prick. If the OP says there was no harm, you are way out of your bounds to claim there was, and the OP is just pretending.
You want to make people's lives miserable by pursuing them for a "terrible crime", when in fact the only crime was against your sensibilities.
If there was a hell, you, and folks like you, should die right now, and burn in it.
You don't really get it do you?
OP was 14. He was incapacitated and unable to jerk off on his own. His mom, knowing that he was very frustrated, asked if he wanted help. She offered to do it for him. ASKED.
Apparently they both enjoyed it, and over the years it escalated. OP is now a normal citizen in society.
Yes, you are completely jaded, and your opinion is just that - an opinion. Expressing it as though it is a fact makes no sense. The fact that you were sodomized against your will should not have an effect on the fact that this guy, old enough to make his own decisions, decided it was okay for his mom to get him off.
Would I do the same thing in his situation? hell the fuck no. But do I think a horrible, awful crime was committed and that OP just has to be a fucked up, abnormal person because of it? Of course not.
If this was a dad and daughter, this thread would have a very different tone.
Boys fantasize about sex with older female figures, but it usually isn't the same for girls and their counterpart older male figures. But if a female will do an AMA saying she had and wanted sex with her father, then well ...
Well, there's that. But there's also the fact that society is less tolerant of a older male with an underage female than the other way around.
Yes, but this may be because most girls don't want it and it would most often be abuse (against her will) if paternal incest ever happened.
reading this, and realizing the truth, blows my mind. It seems so impossible to for me to have the same feelings about a mans capabilities and a womans (referring to mostly ability to take responsibility for actions...) I mean a dad helping a daughter get off at 14? Rape and legal issues all around. I mean even after the years passed, even if consentual, etc etc... This just seems more allowable. Anyways, as weird as this is, good for you and your mom.
You can't be sure it didn't happen though; The same way she doesn't know what happened between you and the mother.
Im curious about the roles reversal here. Would it be the same if it was an older man (you father, 37) and a younger girl (your sister, 14) having sex? You know, just because the parents are a bit "adventurous" as you put it.
There SHOULD be a double standard in situations between adults and minors having sex. Males and females are NOT the same and people who try and act like they are have issues.
You act as if all minors are unable to process what the negatives of sex are at an early age, for the most part they are, but there are some who recognize what is happening and are able to see it for more than it's face value, incest isn't always harmful, though in vast majority it is.
Am I the only one who knew they were white the whole time?
various commenters, r/IAmA 10 Comments
[8/1/2018 3:30:46 PM]
Fundie Index: 5