Quote# 14008

(Actually homosexuality does catch on, check out the Romans for instance. It was literally culturally expected that men had several lovers; wives were almost strictly there to make babies and carry on the name.)

However I will list some other societies:

The Greeks
Sodom and Gomorah
Ancient India
The American Indians
(For more feel free to google it.)

History proves the moral degredation that occurs from it and furthur destroys the argument of "oh, it'll never catch on".
By the way, I asked whether or not people on the opposition were actually concerned with the catching on thing and I recieved the response I thought I would. Basically, they don't care if it catches on or not. Well, my point is that history does destroy any argument stating that homosexuality when permitted does catch on and history furthur destroys any argument stating the homosexuality doesn't degredate society. (Again, research it if you don't believe me)

narudown, Naruto Forums 24 Comments [8/18/2006 12:00:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 3
Submitted By: Winston Jen

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Klaus

What is Sodom and Gomorah? Never heard of them.

8/18/2006 12:41:57 PM

quantumspirit

History Revisionist of the Month? This isn't the first time I've heard that Rome fell because of homosexuality.

8/18/2006 12:53:20 PM

Wolf O'Donnell (SWHQ)

Ah, this old chestnut. Somebody should tell him that Rome didn't degrade because of homosexuality, that in Rome homosexuality was limited to the upper classes, that the average Roman was far more conservative than a Christian, that ancient Greece's society was \"destroyed\" by the Romans, that ancient India was conquered by Westerners and that its society did not degrade because of homosexuality.

Somebody should also tell narudown that he/she's a complete moron that should do his/her research better.

8/18/2006 12:53:53 PM

elnico

or maybe in societies where homosexuality is not stigmatized, people who are already gay do not feel the need to repress or hide it.

8/18/2006 1:15:07 PM

McCulloch

I'd like to see any bona fide historical research to back up this wacco's assertions.

History proves the moral degredation that occurs from supernaturalist redemptive religion and furthur destroys the argument of \"oh, it'll never catch on\".
By the way, I asked whether or not people on the opposition were actually concerned with the catching on thing and I recieved the response I thought I would. Basically, they don't care if it catches on or not. Well, my point is that history does destroy any argument stating that supernaturalist redemptive religion when permitted does catch on and history furthur destroys any argument stating the supernaturalist redemptive religion doesn't degredate society. (Again, research it if you don't believe me)

8/18/2006 1:27:43 PM

Papabear

Accepting homosexuality is only \"moral degradation\" if one starts from the premise that homosexuality is immoral.

To blame the decline of the Greek empire, ancient India and native-American societies on homosexuality is false. I'm sure narudown wishes that was the case, but it was not.

To include Sodom and Gomorah on the list is ridiculous. The Bible tells a story of their destruction, but there is simply no other evidence of how, why or even if they were actually destroyed.

8/18/2006 3:11:00 PM

Amish Trekkie

Well, my point is that history does destroy any argument stating that homosexuality when permitted does catch on...

Narudown got so caught up in his inflated, bullshit, trying-to-sound-smart writing style that he turned his argument around and didn't notice.

Duck season!
Wabbit season!
Duck season!
Wabbit season!
Wabbit season!
...Duck season!

8/18/2006 3:14:09 PM

Napoleon the Clown

Many of those societies actually were doing well before exposure to Christianity.

8/18/2006 3:21:57 PM

Jamasiel

American Indians?!?!

And it had nothing to do with, say, smallpox infected blankets and free-for-all killing? Reservations aren't know for their high fab factor.

8/18/2006 3:30:00 PM

CousinTed

Let's see here:
The Greeks-Fell when Alexander the Great died
American Indians- Fell when they caught smallpox from Christian settlers
Romans- Fell when they adopted Christianity

Nope, nothin' bought bumsex there.

8/18/2006 4:43:57 PM

Amigone201

Since when does the prevalence of homosexuality in vastly dispersed sections of the world prove that it's \"catching?\"

Wouldn't that prove, if anything, that it was inborn? Does this guy think Native Americans went over to India and spread teh gay?

8/18/2006 7:10:22 PM

TDR

go back to school, kid. And I mean real school, not the school of \"my dad always said\".

8/18/2006 7:38:07 PM

Nekhbet

Five to ten percent of the world's population can be expected to catch 'Gay', the rest of you are immune. There is no cure just lay back and enjoy it as the old saying goes.

8/18/2006 8:08:56 PM

Sandman

\"Degredate?\" I assume you mean degrade, but aside from that, your logic is assassinine.

The Greek empire fell because it was overrun by the Romans.

There is no actual archaeological evidence that Sodom and Gomorrah ever actually existed, and besides, the Bible states that the cities were destroyed because they were wicked, and homosexuality is just one of the vices practiced there. There were many, many cities at the time where homosexuality was common that did not recieve destruction, so it seems logical to assume that it wasn't homosexuality alone that brought about his rather cranky judgment.

Ancient India? You are going to have to define what you mean by that before you can claim destruction by homosexuality. \"Ancient India\" could refer to any of a dozen or more kingdoms and tribes.

American Indians? Um...the policies and practices of European immigrants (in the early days) and of the United States brought about the downfall of those cultures and societies. Well, the ones that inter-tribal warfare didn't eliminate, that is. And if you think that the American Indian culture depicted in the film \"Little Big Man\" is accurate, you really need to visit your local library.

And Rome? Rome fell because it became politically and socialy decadant and dependant on a slave labor force that vastly outnumbered the \"free\" citizens. Interestingly enough, the seeds for Rome's fall were planted when the executive branch of their government began to consolidate all power in itself, taking the authority of the Senate and the generals for themselves...

...does that sound familiar...?

8/18/2006 11:11:16 PM

whitewater55

Greeks : fell to Roman expansionism
Sodom&Gomorah : Mythical, No documented evidence for their existence.
Ancient India: Conquered by Greeks, Muslims, British, French, Portuguese
American Indians : See above, subtract Muslims.
History proves that civilizations fail for a variety of reasons, none of which have anything whatever to do with homosexuality.
As an aside, you wouldn't know \"research\" if it bit you on the ass.

8/18/2006 11:44:06 PM

Matilde

Well, by that logic, we have to asume that NEARLY ALL CIVILISATIONS WERE GAY. They don´t last forever. And talking about the American Indians, I feel particularly offended.

8/21/2006 9:33:50 AM

Redhunter

this is so ridiculous I almost didn't respond, but the American Indians were wiped out by 'the gay'? Are you out of your fucking mind? Yeah, American Indians were wiped out by their homosexual lifestyles like the dodo's were. I feel the urge to defecate now.

8/21/2006 10:00:44 AM

Maronan

Actually homosexuality does catch on, check out the Romans for instance. It was literally culturally expected that men had several lovers; wives were almost strictly there to make babies and carry on the name.)


I call bullshit. Care to show evidence that all Roman men were expected to be gay? Even then, what's this idea about \"catching on?\" 5-10% of the population is born gay, the rest aren't. None of them can change.

However I will list some other societies:


Societies destroyed by homosexuality? Societies that tolerated it? Societies you think are cool? What?

The Greeks


Yeah, the ancient Greeks. A lot of philosophers, and the world's first democracy. Wiped out by the Romans.

Sodom and Gomorah


Mythical. There is no reason to believe they ever existed.

Ancient India


Could refer to a number of cultures. Eventually wiped out by Christians.

The American Indians


Far too many tribes to name offhand. Wiped out by Christians and the diseases they brought.

(For more feel free to google it.)


No, lazyboy, we won't do your research for you.

History proves the moral degredation that occurs from it and furthur destroys the argument of \"oh, it'll never catch on\".


Homosexuality only causes \"moral degredation\" according to the Wholly Babble's warped morals, which declare homosexuality itself to be a crime. Since people cannot change their sexual orientation, there is no way that homosexuality could \"catch on.\"

By the way, I asked whether or not people on the opposition were actually concerned with the catching on thing and I recieved the response I thought I would. Basically, they don't care if it catches on or not.


You asked \"Are you concerned with the possibility that homosexuality might catch on?\" They said no. So you go on to claim: \"Homosexuality is going to catch on and people who want to give rights to gays don't care!\"

Let me explain this for you in simple words: No one cares about homosexuality \"catching on\" because no one needs to. Sexual orientation is inborn, therefore people cannot choose to become gay.

Well, my point is that history does destroy any argument stating that homosexuality when permitted does catch on and history furthur destroys any argument stating the homosexuality doesn't degredate society. (Again, research it if you don't believe me)


Typical fundie. Take an absurd position, pile up a bunch of bullshit \"evidence\" to support it, assert that your position is obvious and that history destroys any counterargument without providing a single example, and ask your opponent to disprove it if he is still skeptical.

9/2/2006 2:00:36 PM

Count Zapolai

So... ok....
Western Empire- lasts from around 750 BCE- 476CE, extraordinary military power etc. (& collapses within 140 years of adopting Christianity)

Eastern Empire- lasts until at least 1453 CE (arguably 1469 with Trebizond etc, but still)- probably the Western World's longest lived civilisation.

Classical Greece & India- two of the greatest civilisations ever in terms of cultural, scientific & technological achievement, with an exceptionally long political lifespan & more or less permanent cultural influence.

First Human population of Eurasia- c 40,000 bp
First Human population of the Americas c 10,000 bp
First civilisations in Eurasia c 6,000 bp (36,000 years)
First civilisations in Americas c 4,000 bp (6,000 years)
Native Americans produced sedentary states and empires 6 times faster than anyone else!

Would appear tolerance is a virtue
Anything to add?

3/25/2008 8:35:24 PM

ProudSecularist

The Romans, Greeks, Ancient India, and the American Indians were all around for a much longer time than any European country and especially longer than the United States.

And what a terrible thing to say that the American Indians' societies were destroyed by their own moral degredation. They were destroyed, because morally degraded Europeans thought they had the right to come here and force them off their land.

3/25/2008 8:47:36 PM

PirateFaafy

Oh ho, Narutard fundies! I'm quite sure that the "American Indians" fell due to homosexuality and not the Europeans. It's the only explanation, really.

6/5/2008 2:23:44 PM

wackadoodle

Yeah it was homosexuality that did in the Native Americans, not disease or conquistadors.

9/8/2008 1:36:37 AM

CanadianBroad

"degredate"!?

No.

No-no-no-no- >.<

9/30/2012 7:25:12 AM

Punch

Prove that moral degradation caused by homosexuality caused the collapse of any of those society. Saying it's so, doesn't make it so.

9/30/2012 11:21:14 AM

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