Quote# 14254

[Rape and slavery justification in response to the following verse: Numbers 31:18. "But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves]

The Numbers passage you cite should be taken in context. Israel was directed to attack the Midianites because of their earlier misconduct with the men of Israel. Through the urging of the prophet Balaam, the Midianite women had been having sex with the Israelite men and led them into idolatry. Instead of destroying these adulterous women, the Israelite men captured the women and children, plus other spoils of battle.

Moses was angry that Israel had disobeyed God's commands and ordered them to execute these women who had caused Israel to sin against the Lord. The young girls were spared execution because they had not been involved in the adulterous sin. It was not that they were spared so that Israel could have committed sexual crimes with them. The New Bible Commentary says of the sparing of these girls that "they became part of the nation." There is nothing impure in this motive - simply an extension of God's grace.

geneva man, WorldMagBlog 29 Comments [8/25/2006 12:00:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 3

Username  (Login)
Comment  (Text formatting help) 

1 2 | bottom

Napoleon the Clown

Whatever lets you sleep at night.

8/26/2006 4:12:31 AM

ND

Yes, but didnt' the Israelite men go ahead and fuck the young girls they spared. Oh, but if its RAPE its okay because then the men are not being lead into idolotry as they were by fucking willing women. Got it. God says its okay to rape young girls, but not have consentual ses with women. Glad you enlightened me on that one.

8/26/2006 4:31:42 AM

Amos

So, can I catch myself a cute European girl and make her part of this American nation? You know, after I kill her family?

After all, her sister fucked me and tried to change my religion...

8/26/2006 5:06:42 AM

Julian

Dang boy, which Chapter of the Klan do you hail from?

8/26/2006 5:33:02 AM

solomongrundy

'Through the urging of the prophet Balaam....'

Personally, I wouldn't take advice from anyone claiming to have a talking ass.

8/26/2006 6:24:32 AM

NotMe

I bet he didn't read shakespeare. To paraphrase a little piece of his work: \"Rape by any other name\". Or was it about roses? I don't remember.

@Karl: Yep, and if you can get a snake to keep them warm so they hatch, which has to be done on a manure pile, you get a basilisk. That's common knowledge amongst midevil people.

8/26/2006 7:27:11 AM

JadedRevenge

How nice, god had the girls raped and enslaved instead of killed...

8/26/2006 7:45:29 AM

Brain_In_A_Jar

What a pinnacle of civilised behaviour.

Hint: Having lots of complicated rules does not necessarily make you civilised. Is it OK if a cannibal uses knife and fork?

8/26/2006 9:57:13 AM

NotMe

Sorry Karl, wrong basilisk. I was talking about the one that can kill you (Or turn you to stone, depending on the regions you are from) with a gaze.

8/26/2006 11:35:09 AM

Brandon

simply an extension of God's grace. I feel all warm and tingly.

8/26/2006 11:51:22 AM

JustinGG

Ummmm...sure, that seems reasonable.

8/26/2006 2:01:01 PM

moog

They were deluded followers of a psycho god, and proud of it!

8/26/2006 4:17:01 PM

Berny

It must be nice to be able to justify genocide, rape, and slavery by writing your own Holy Book and saying God told you to do it, so it's OK.
Fuck you.

8/26/2006 6:57:43 PM

Papabear

\"The Numbers passage you cite should be taken in context. Israel was directed to attack the Midianites because of their earlier misconduct with the men of Israel.\"

So making war on one's neighbors is OK if one claims his deity directed him to do so?


\"Through the urging of the prophet Balaam, the Midianite women had been having sex with the Israelite men and led them into idolatry.\"

Or, more likely, because of their \"God-given\" libido, the men of Israel were having sex with any woman they could get.


\"Instead of destroying these adulterous women, the Israelite men captured the women and children, plus other spoils of battle.\"

So, the women and children were \"spoils of war?\" How enlightened.

These women, who you assert should be thankful for not being destroyed, were on the shit list because of their adultery with the men of Israel. Those men were equally adulterous.


\"Moses was angry that Israel had disobeyed God's commands and ordered them to execute these women who had caused Israel to sin against the Lord.\"

Though Moses didn't order any of the adulterous men of Israel to be executed, did he? It takes two to be adulterous. Also, it is unlikely that the women CAUSED the men to be adulterous against the men's will. More likely that the rapacious men of Israel forced the Midianite women into having sex.


\"The young girls were spared execution because they had not been involved in the adulterous sin. It was not that they were spared so that Israel could have committed sexual crimes with them.\"

And the little boys, old men and old women were executed because they HAD been involved in the adultery? \"God\" and Moses had the 12 y/o virgin girls spared because they weren't involved in adultery, but had the infant boys killed because the WERE involved?


\"The New Bible Commentary says of the sparing of these girls that \"they became part of the nation.\"

Yes, Bible commentaries like that are written by disingenuous asshats who are desperately trying to put a nice face on their treasured religious delesion.


\"There is nothing impure in this motive - simply an extension of God's grace.\"

So, you contend that there is nothing wrong with making war on one's neighbors in the name of one's \"good and loving God?\" And that adulterous women should be executed, but the men with whom they committed this adultery should suffer no punishment? And, that the elderly, and male infants and children should be executed as punishment for adulteries which they had no part of? And, that the virgin girls were simply incorperated into Israelite society as a magnanimous gesture by Moses and your \"God?\"

You are an asshole.

8/26/2006 9:22:55 PM

Mister Spak

So that guy in Iraq wasn't a murderous thug, he was just
extending god's grace to the heathen muslims.

8/27/2006 1:23:42 AM

Coffee

geneva man, did you screw your head on too tight or something? Nothing you say makes sense, as Papabear just explained. The Old Testament god is an evil monster; deal with it.

8/27/2006 1:48:44 AM

Matilde

Context, they wanted to conquer the land and treated the women as sex slaves, read the whole passage. And what about the kids and the men, guilty of taking men into idolatry(never mentioned this in the Bible, by the way)?. Besides, what stupid morons if they could not first, hold their pants(the fault is the woman´s of course), and they are not sure of their beliefs just because of sex.

8/27/2006 8:15:00 PM

LibKitten

You skipped the part where God ordered them to kill all the (non-adulterous) boy children. What did the boy children do, exactly?

It was okay for them to keep the female children because they could \"use\" them, but they had no use for the male children, so they killed them. Good on ya.

8/28/2006 12:24:22 AM

Redhunter

Papabear beat me to it. I like the fundie says the evil women \"led them into\" commiting sin. So they weren't punished, they are rewarded with fresh ones. Beautiful.

That would've been a neat trick to get everybody to confess whether they lost their virginity to a husband or an Israelite. No matter; had sex=death. God's grace. God's love. Nothing impure in slaughter or enslavement. Whottanasshole.

8/28/2006 8:03:32 AM

MK

Typical response of fundie when confronted with a nasty part of the Bible.

\"Now, see, um, this is one of those things you have to take in the proper context and understand with proper study and revelation from the Holy Spirit in order to understand that it's not literally saying what it seems to be saying....

unlike Genesis, which is literally and absolutely correct as written!\"

8/28/2006 6:49:08 PM

David D.G.

MK: Drat, I had planned to mention that very thing, but got sidetracked. Excellent job, though! That kind of split-brained, heads-I-win-tails-you-lose sophistry regarding biblical interpretation always makes me laugh (while simultaneously grinding my teeth in anger and frustration, so it's a pretty strange kind of laugh).


~David D.G.

8/28/2006 7:58:56 PM

Matilde

It is a military order coming from a man, not from God, that is why Jews don´t go now in the world doing that atrocity. That it is written in the Bible doesn´t mean that it is a God Command. The problem with fundies is that, if you question this, the whole Bible should be questioned, and they think that the Bible is inerrant.

8/29/2006 2:43:46 PM

John

The passage is vague about what actually happened to the girls. But it's suspicious that they killed all the boys and non-virgin women but kept the virgin girls.

8/31/2006 8:53:53 PM

Old Viking

I agree with MK. The warm, mushy parts of the Bible are to be taken literally. If it's a passage that would make Jack the Ripper queasy it must be taken in context.

9/1/2006 1:34:43 AM

EJ

Oh yes, the \"innocent\" were spared.

Which is why all the male babies were murdered.

EDIT: And, John, the passage is not vague at all. The girls' heads were shaven as a form of humiliation and they were sold to slavery. After a period of time, their male masters could officially marry them.

9/1/2006 10:19:44 PM

1 2 | top: comments page