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Quote# 17547

J P Moreland an excellent Christian Philosopher responding to atheists claim that man is nothing more than brains and a body that ceases to exist at death has philsophically from science refuted that claim by giving a sound argument for the existence of an IMMATERIAL SOUL.

He has stated that from a LEGAL PERSPECTIVE if human beings were merely material, man COULD NOT be held accountable THIS YEAR for a crime LAST YEAR because physical composition changes over time. IOW everyday, we lose multiplied millions of microscopic particles-in fact every seven years virtually every part of our material anatomy changes APART from aspects of our neurological system. From a purely material perspective therefore, the person who previously committed a crime is PRESENTLY NOT the same person.

However, to attempt to use this reasoning as a line of defense would not get very far because the IMMATERIAL MIND (soul) that atheists claim doesn't exist in fact DOES EXIST because your mind stays with you even though materially you fully change.

Again atheism bites the dust.

Nucc, Reasoning 15 Comments [11/29/2006 12:00:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 2
WTF?! || meh
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NotMe

But the driving force stays the same. It's called \"memories\". You know, the little thing that keeps you from having to learn to walk everytime your body \"refreshes\" itself.

12/1/2006 7:19:22 AM

Julian

Oh, OK, so you're saying we should prosecute their fecal matter?

You mentioned the exception you fuckwit - the neurological system - the brain. Severely retarded or insane people are not held legally responsible. People have won nobel prizes studying the mechanism by which memories are stored. There is no 'soul'. YOU LOSE

Give up with your absurd strawmen! Seriously!

12/1/2006 7:56:07 AM

MessiahRefugee

Using arguments about the nature of matter to prove that something immaterial exists is pretty strange.

12/1/2006 7:59:43 AM

Michael

According to this very sound reasoning, we should be putting dead people in jail. Capital punishment for cadavers has its own special appeal, too.

12/1/2006 8:25:21 AM

Redhunter

So your proof against man being merely brains and no soul is that teh memories from the brain remain constant while ALL OF THE REST OF THE BODY IS REPLACED?

Atheism doesn't bite the dust, it's rolling on the floor laughing it's ass off at you and your stupid argument.

12/1/2006 11:57:33 AM

Eri

Ship of Theseus, Bitch!

Doesn't quite have the same ring as \"treaty of tripoli\" though...

12/1/2006 12:57:34 PM

Brain_In_A_Jar

He has stated that from a LEGAL PERSPECTIVE if human beings were merely material, man COULD NOT be held accountable THIS YEAR for a crime LAST YEAR because physical composition changes over time.

Here's an analogy for you - imagine a river floods its banks and destroys a town. People propose to dam the river to stop it happening again, but by your argument, they couldn't because it wouldn't be the \"same\" river - the river that did the damage has long since poured into the sea and now there's a different one in its place.

12/1/2006 1:36:02 PM

Rysith

What is even more rediculous is that he is arguing about a scientific matter from a legal perspective. Fortunately, the universe doesn't have to obey our laws, but we have to obey the laws of the universe.

12/1/2006 3:57:02 PM

Darwin's Lil' Girl

...But we don't change. Our DNA doesn't change. Our minds hardly change. Ergo, WE don't change.

11/10/2007 10:07:23 PM

Big Jon

This does give me some interesting ideas for if I ever land up in court though :)

4/4/2008 7:15:43 PM

Canadiest

The law DOES recognize a chabge in the person: Justifiiable Homicide, Temporary Insanity, Altered Perception (Previously undiagnosed Chemical inbalance)

The law just won't accept normal regeneration over time as a change of WHO you are.

Quit trying to move the goalposts or you're evicted from the game.

4/6/2008 3:01:12 PM

Draconiz

But the soul of man can change too isn't it? That's why Fundies claim you have to accept Jesus into your heart in the first place.

By this guy's logic that you can't try things that change over time. Does that mean I can commit mass murder and then become a born-again to escape my sentences?

The laws tend not to venture into the metaphysical because we live in a material world, that's why we jail the vessel that holds the consciousness that committed the crime. Not to mention that things that affect the consciousness (Chemical imbalances, psychological factors) are also put into consideration.

But law and punishment also has a wider scope than punishing the individual, they exist to discourage would-be wrong doers and maintain a functioning society, thus we still sentence the criminal even when the he/she is remorseful.

It's the brain, stupid!


4/6/2008 3:50:38 PM

apYrs

nope: wrong. The physical components may change, but the information doesn't (except for some degradation).

It's a bit like putting money in the bank; the notes you withdraw aren't the same ones as those you put in, but their value is the same (though degraded due to inflation)

4/6/2008 4:05:06 PM

Dr. Shrinker

Uh huh, and tell me Nucc, has any court of law anywhere accepted this "legal" argument? If anyone tried, they would end up sharing a cell with Kent Hovind.

2/7/2009 10:13:12 PM

TauRaven

Please correct me if I am wrong , but wouldn't Christian Philosopher be an oxymoron.

2/7/2009 10:21:24 PM
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