Quote# 32506

I, in my opinion, try to respect the religion of others, but when the other Religions try to comdem what Christians have believed for since the Founding Fathers of the United States and for hundreds of years before that, gave us the Freedom of Religion in the Constitution. Herein lies the problem, our Forefathers were not Buddhists, Muslims, Hinduism but were God-fearing Christians as we know Christians. Thus we were given the right of Freedom of Religion as they knew it. I know other Religions are Centuries old also but most were unheard of by the Founding Fathers of this Country. I don't believe that the Founding Fathers realized what a mess the world would become or how so many Religions hate each other and the followers of those Religions. I believe it is time to realize that when an immigrant comes to the United States and becomes a United States citizen , that you adopt our beliefs and quit fighting Holy Wars. It is time to unite not divide . Come together and worship as one. Quit condeming. Enjoy the Birth of Christ.

James W. Davis, Chillicothe Gazette 32 Comments [12/18/2007 1:21:06 PM]
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Gemsabarmy

No - the founding fathers were VERY aware of the mess that religions can make of society. It has been going on for thousands of years, and these were educated (and in some cases, atheist) men. They were SO aware in fact that they put a clause into the document that this nation stands on to TRY and prevent fanatical religions from taking over this country.

Read the Treaty of Tripoli.

12/18/2007 1:29:40 PM

cyborgtroy

Trying to change people's religion based on political boundaries is a terrible, impractical idea. Not to mention how impossible it would be for them. Like if you were forced financially to work in the middle east but couldn't because you weren't Muslim.

12/18/2007 1:34:16 PM

Aethernaut

Homogenize or DIE!! It's what my fictional version of the Founding Fathers wanted because they all lived in tiny little boxes with blinders on and NONE of them were deists.

12/18/2007 1:56:30 PM

BreeStar

Ironic (adj.) - Doing exactly what the Founding Fathers of the United States intended to prevent in their name.

12/18/2007 1:58:03 PM

NonProphet

"Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination."

-Thomas Jefferson

12/18/2007 1:58:42 PM

Athar

You'll find the founding fathers came about during the time known as the enlightenment. It spawed many great thinkers and most of them, including the found father, were atheists.

12/18/2007 2:20:09 PM

gemsabarmy

Hey Athar - what do you think ever happened to the Enlightenment? I can't for the life of me figure out where it went.

12/18/2007 2:31:22 PM

Jezebel's Evil Sister

"...our Forefathers were not Buddhists, Muslims, Hinduism but were God-fearing Christians as we know Christians. ..."

Wrong again, fundifucktard. Christians, as you know them, didn't even exist prior to the inaccurately named revival movement of the 19th century.

12/18/2007 3:20:34 PM



Paine and Jefferson God-fearing Christians?, The Puritans gave freedom of religion?. Sorry if I don't laugh louder.

12/18/2007 3:42:06 PM



If an immigrant comes to a country and has to convert to a religion, that is not freedom of religion. Period. Make up your mind.

12/18/2007 3:52:01 PM

John

I don't believe that the Founding Fathers realized what a mess the world would become or how so many Religions hate each other and the followers of those Religions

They knew exactly that, and that's why they wanted the government to keep its nose out of religion and not start favoring one over the other.

12/18/2007 3:57:44 PM

Mudflappus

I can't believe these dipshits can't see the hypocracy in their own words. I guess it's easy if you go through life with your eyes firmly shut.

12/18/2007 3:59:37 PM

GigaGuess

@Mudflappus

Just hand the leash over to the first person that says pretty words and then you just follow along.

12/18/2007 4:16:33 PM

Lithp

Who died and made YOUR religion the one to center around?

12/18/2007 4:20:34 PM

Caustic Gnostic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Statute_for_Religious_Freedom

Jefferson says otherwise.

12/18/2007 4:30:01 PM

John_in_Oz

Oh Dear, Lithp, you'd really give a Fundie a straight line like that?
James Davis needs to be told that your Founders were well aware the World's SuperPower at the time of your Declaration of Independance was the Muslim Ottoman Empire.
They knew of Religous hatred going back to the Crusades.
Perhaps if he had his facts right, he'd be more sensible in his conclusions.

12/18/2007 4:36:42 PM

werewolf

Wasn't this tried before during the 100 Hundred Years War in Europe? Forced conversions, I mean. How do you think that turned out?

12/18/2007 4:41:49 PM

booley

Ahhh, so in short, Freedom of religion is the freedom to be what the rest of us say you can be. You have the freedom to do as your told by the majority.

Gotcha...

12/18/2007 4:44:49 PM

Goosey

Wait... you're saying second-guessing the principles on which America is based is the American thing to do, now?

What?!

Jeez, I sound like a Republican.

12/18/2007 5:04:41 PM

anevilmeme

"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church I know of. My own mind is my own church."

- Thomas Paine, the Age of Reason

Yeah, the founders sounded like real biblethumpers.

12/18/2007 5:30:21 PM

Jon

Freedom of religion, not as you understand it, was meant by the Founding Fathers to prevent the very nonsense you're promoting.

12/18/2007 5:42:09 PM

Dewey

They weren't any kind of Christian you'd recognize as being a Real True Christian (tm). For one thing, quite a few of them did not believe in the trinity. For another, they believed in natural theology, not your supernaturalism.

Second, they had indeed heard of Hinduism and Islam (hint: they called them Hindoos and Mahometans), and they were quite familiar with religious hatred, because they had up-close and personal experience with the religious persecution that comes from the state establishing a religion.

Asking immigrants to become Christian as a condition of becoming a citizen is more likely to start a holy war, not end one. Dumbass.

12/18/2007 5:44:34 PM

jsonitsac

The Virginia Statute of Religious Freedom is very unambiguous. It doesn't say any religion so long as it's Christian can be practiced in the state, it says all religions can be practiced in the state.

12/18/2007 6:48:09 PM

GigaGuess

"I, in my opinion, try to respect the religion of others..."
I sincerely doubt that, but continue.

"...but when the other Religions try to comdem what Christians have believed for since the Founding Fathers of the United States and for hundreds of years before that..."
The founding fathers were Theists at best. Many people fled the old country as they were deemed heretical for their LACK of belief. Care to take another swing?

"...gave us the Freedom of Religion in the Constitution."
Which you and yours seem intent on scrapping in favor of one almighty religion which miraculously happens to be yours. Why do you think that religious freedom is protected? It is so no group can impose their religion on another. Period.

"Herein lies the problem, our Forefathers were not Buddhists, Muslims, Hinduism but were God-fearing Christians as we know Christians."
No but they were aware of them, and were most likely FLEEING from that last one, or that time's equivalent thereof.

"Thus we were given the right of Freedom of Religion as they knew it."
So you're shoehorning Freedom of Religion to freedom of YOUR religion. Very nice.

"I know other Religions are Centuries old also but most were unheard of by the Founding Fathers of this Country."
Prove it.

"I don't believe that the Founding Fathers realized what a mess the world would become or how so many Religions hate each other and the followers of those Religions."
YOURS INCLUDED! Yours is just as bad as any, and just as guilty. Didn't Jesus say something about a mote and a plank?

"I believe it is time to realize that when an immigrant comes to the United States and becomes a United States citizen , that you adopt our beliefs..."
Because heavens forbid you have to encounter someone who's different. You're kinda hedging on a communist/theocratic hybrid here buddy.

"...and quit fighting Holy Wars."
Like, say, bombing abortion clinics, or beating up gays...hmmm...sounds kinda familiar there...

"It is time to unite not divide."
Which you seem to be doing an excellent job of. NOTHING says unity like marginalizing anyone who is different from or disagrees with you.

"Come together and worship as one. Quit condeming. Enjoy the Birth of Christ."
Yep! Who needs Freedom of Religion, when you're all free to worship MY religion. That sound you're hearing? That's the founding fathers spinning in their graves so fast that they are threatening to reverse the Earth's rotation.

12/18/2007 8:31:57 PM

Mister Spak

" but were God-fearing Christians as we know Christians."

God fearing christians as you understand them didn't exist until after the founding faters were dead. You fail.

"I don't believe that the Founding Fathers realized what a mess the world would become or how so many Religions hate each other and the followers of those Religions. "

They were very aware of this and wrote the first amendment, thus establishing a wall of separation between church and state for exactly that reason. The founding fathers were less ignorant than you by orders of magnitude. You fail.


"that you adopt our beliefs and quit fighting Holy Wars."

You first.

"Quit condeming. "

You first.

"Enjoy the Birth of Christ."

Enjoy the light of Allah.

12/18/2007 9:36:33 PM

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