Quote# 44169

(So remember that quote a while back about soy making you gay? Well, RaptureReady read this site, and someone decided to back him up.)


I've done a bit of reading up on this. Soy contains a fair amount of phyto-estrogens - substances that mimic female hormone estrogen. So prolonged intake over a period of years could cause a reduction in male fertility.

So why haven't the Chinese and Japanese been affected, one might well ask? Well, because the soy products consumed by folks in these two nations are principally the output of a fermentation process that neutralizes much of the phyto-estrogen content in soy. China is chugging along at over a billion people and counting - evidently Chinese soy consumption has had no impact on male fertility at all.

By contrast, almost all soy products sold in the US have not undergone any fermentation process - leaving the phyto-estrogens to do their work, whatever impact and effects there may be. I am not speculating on the impacts here - will leave that to bolder souls than I!

SumSam, RaptureReady 25 Comments [8/4/2008 3:44:19 PM]
Fundie Index: 2
Submitted By: Smith
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Pup

A number of other foodstuffs that contain phytoestrogens include soy beans, tofu, tempeh, soy beverages, linseed (flax), sesame seeds, wheat, berries, oats, barley, dried beans, lentils, rice, alfalfa, mung beans, apples, carrots, wheat germ, ricebran, soy linseed bread, ginseng, bourbon and beer, fennel and anise.

And of course, there's this:

"In theory, exposure to high levels of phytoestrogens in men could alter their hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis. However, studies have shown that such a hormonal effect is minor. [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15735098] Isoflavones supplementation has no effect in sperm concentration, count or mobility and show no changes in testicular or ejaculate volume. [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11352776]"

8/4/2008 3:54:44 PM

Delmania

Well he's done some research, but in about 2 seconds of typing in "soy phyto-estrogens", the real concern is that they seem to be linked to cancer, not fertility.

Also, China and Japan consume far less soy than America does.

8/4/2008 3:56:26 PM

Savina

Not really fundie...just idiotic.

8/4/2008 4:18:29 PM

Allegory for Jesus

Yeah...except that males already naturally have at least a small amount of estrogen in their system and it actually enhances libido and fertility. So...you were close, but a little too simplistic on the estrogen=female thing.

8/4/2008 4:19:49 PM



At least this post is the product of a thinking person who sounds fairly rational, not a hysterical RR fundie.

8/4/2008 4:21:05 PM

Professor Cold Heart

Doesn't all this kind of fly in the face of the fundie position that homosexuality is a choice?

8/4/2008 4:25:29 PM

jc

Good job using google for about 5 minutes and copy/pasting the most basic info you could understand, probably from wikipedia.

8/4/2008 4:26:03 PM

John

We know about phyto-estrogens. What does that have to do with homosexuality? Large doses of estrogen (which can also occur naturally through genetic flaws) may cause various abnormalities in males (much worse, in females), such as abnormal growth patterns and the development of breasts. But there's no indication that it causes homosexuality.

8/4/2008 4:48:34 PM

aaa

Nor concerning me.

8/4/2008 4:50:30 PM

aqualung

citation needed, bitch!

8/4/2008 4:51:39 PM

Airbag

Not fundie at all really, and while inaccurate (or at least lacking detail and logical analysis) he's not as far off the mark as you might think.

8/4/2008 5:25:59 PM

Impious

@Professor Cold Heart

Yeah, but there are quite a few fundies that have been backpedaling on the whole "It's a CHOICE" thing, and this guy might be one of them. They're starting to realize that it's too stupid even for them and that they can profit off of a different viewpoint:
"Okay, maybe you didn't actually choose to like people of the same sex, but your desires are still morally wrong and disgusting and somehow linked to child molestation and bestiality. Your homosexuality is basically a disease cause by sin (and possibly soy and poor parenting). Don't worry though, we can cure you with 'reparative' therapy so you can be a normal heterosexual. If that doesn't work you'll just have to stay celibate for the rest of your life so as not to make Jesus sad."

Now, instead of homosexuality being strictly a matter of choice, it's more like an illness that you choose to have (however that works). For more on this, see NARTH.

Weird as it is, I've even seen a few fundies argue that everyone is attracted to both sexes but most people choose be hetero, which just sounds like an argument a closet-case would use. "All straight men secretly like penis! I'm not the only one!" Come on. >_>

8/4/2008 5:31:22 PM

Princess Rot

Jebus, what makes these men so terrified of everything to do with females they'll go out of their way to avoid coming into contact with it?

8/4/2008 5:31:24 PM

approximate

Teh gheys are fulla (soy)beans?

8/4/2008 5:46:43 PM

Eden

Beer contains phytoestrogens as well,
so make ready SumSam for your breasts growing larger and larger and call if you need a bra :D

8/4/2008 6:09:39 PM

Jay-Sus

Not Fundie. If it was there would be random shit about soy products causing homosexuality. This is just stupid.

8/4/2008 8:31:30 PM

Brian-sama

I guess soy is the new Yellow 5. At least these nutjobs can leave my Mountain Dew alone now.

8/4/2008 8:42:31 PM

Old Viking

I'm soy to hear that. (Truly bad, I know.)

8/4/2008 8:52:28 PM

ID82

There's um soy in a lot of food products. My friend can't eat a lot of foods because he is allergic to soy.

8/4/2008 8:54:05 PM

WMDKitty

Whut...

8/4/2008 9:17:00 PM

tracer

For a Rapture Ready post, this almost qualifies as rational and level-headed!

8/4/2008 11:55:32 PM



This doesn't belong here. There's nothing religious about it, and while he doesn't understand the subject matter, at least he's approaching it in a seemingly calm and low-key manner - which is probably the first such post in the history of RR.

8/5/2008 2:42:38 AM

Illuminatalie

What you're failing to take into account, SumSam, is the high MSG content of Chinese foods, which interacts with the soy to cover cells with a dense layer of soy-MSG complex, which acts as a barrier to those demons that infect you with ghey in the first place.

8/5/2008 3:57:57 AM



You have fun with that theory. ^^;;

8/5/2008 4:20:26 PM

Me

Pass the edamame!

8/9/2008 7:16:32 AM

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