Quote# 44933

Learn about law and how Jesus fulfilled the law then think critically about how we are all equal under Law. You are free to reject God but then the State you live in is the law and your god.

I have plenty of basis in fact it's just that as the bible says: A scoffer seeks wisdom in vain, but knowledge is easy for a man of understanding.

Proverbs 14:6

I understand your need for cognitive dissonance against that which you do not believe. The fact that we are all considered equal comes from the Authority of God and that is where the equality concept came into being for the United States of America. Yet! If there is no god/s then there is no higher authority that will hold us all equal and accountable. If you hold to the law of this land then to recognize equality of being is to also recognize that there must be an Authority to hold all accountable. So even if you don't believe in God then the law of the United States is your god.

Jackanapes, StumbleUpon Philosophy Forum 29 Comments [8/15/2008 3:41:20 PM]
Fundie Index: 5
Submitted By: LeftCoastLibrul

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Delmania

Ah, attempt to sounds intelligent, a fun word salad!

However, nothing much to comment on, he stated that if you don't believe that equality came from God, it comes from the United States law. I guess the only real /headdesk is comparing the law to a god.

8/15/2008 3:45:21 PM

Empress

Okay, I didn't even understand most of that. But if you're claiming that the god of the Bible is where we get the idea of all being equal, I'd point out to you the passages where slavery was perfectly fine and women were practically chattel.

Of course, it wasn't much different when the US was born. It's been over 200 years of advancement and legal refinement to get us to the point where a woman and a black man could be rivals for the presidency.

So basically, you fail.

8/15/2008 3:51:03 PM

Waiting for God

What? Cite the bible verse which says that we are all equal under God.

I thought that God, was only interested in his chosen people (Jews) and Jesus, only those who believe in him. How can the rest of us still be equal? We despise God for being the megalomanical control freak Christians seem to believe he is.

Considering America was founded as a land of religious tolerance, open to all and with no claim to have any state sanctioned religion the declaration of independance is the first document to mention "All men are created equal".

It dosen't even mention women, that's how progressive they were in 1776. DOn't talk out of your arse and claim that the founding fathers took their inspiration from Gawd and the babble, 'cos we knows different lik'.

As for this logical gem:

If there is no god/s then there is no higher authority that will hold us all equal and accountable. If you hold to the law of this land then to recognize equality of being is to also recognize that there must be an Authority to hold all accountable

You STILL haven't grasped what circular reasoning is have you dick? X claims Y, Y = True because X says so.

Also, civil law is not God, it exists to protect me from deranged people like yourself.

8/15/2008 3:51:41 PM

agentCDE

A scoffer seeks wisdom in vain, but knowledge is easy for a man of understanding?

So, I take it you don't just dismiss Evolution out of hand?

8/15/2008 3:51:58 PM

Brent

"Cognitive dissonance..."

To quote Inigo Montoya, "You keep a-saying that word, i do not think it means what you think it means."

8/15/2008 3:56:55 PM

aaa

No, i don't follow any laws.

8/15/2008 4:04:10 PM

Godbuster

Really you people are just children who refuse to accept that the world isn't fair, which is why you believe in a great equalizer.
Grow up, god won't, doesn't and can't fight your battles.

8/15/2008 4:04:15 PM

Grigadil

Equality is not a biblical concept. That concept comes more from the philosophers of the Enlightenment.

The authority of secular law is based upon humanism, which is ostensibly common to all religions, and no religion at all.

The success of a republic depends upon the universal recognition of a social contract. Religions are not necessary.

8/15/2008 4:06:38 PM

Lulzmonger

Zealots are motherfucking dangerous.


This is the reason why church and state are separate, ''Only god holds us accountable''.

8/15/2008 4:21:58 PM

Doctor Whom

The god who supposedly created us equal is the god of 18th-century deism, not the god of the Bible, who did anything but.

8/15/2008 4:22:23 PM

HeathenAngel

The words I recognize as being English... but the syntax is all-a-fuck-anese. Could someone please translate?

8/15/2008 4:25:48 PM



You basically cobbled together a bunch of words and said nothing. But I love your screen name!

8/15/2008 5:01:29 PM

vampirehummingbird

"I have plenty of basis in fact it's just that as the bible says..."

So you have plenty of basis in fact but you're not going to tell us?


Follow those who search for truth,
flee from those who claim to have found it. -Mark Twain

8/15/2008 5:06:02 PM

anonymous_troy

I asked for soup, not salad.

8/15/2008 5:16:08 PM

Papabear

"I understand your need for cognitive dissonance against that which you do not believe."

Not that much of this post make a lot of sense, but what the heck does this sentence mean?

8/15/2008 6:18:23 PM

Beeblebrox

I understand your need for cognitive dissonance against that which you do not believe.


Main Entry:
cognitive dissonance
Function:
noun
Date:
1957

: psychological conflict resulting from incongruous beliefs and attitudes held simultaneously


You shouldn't use words if you're not absolutely sure of their definition.

The fact that we are all considered equal comes from the Authority of God...

I'm surprised your fingers didn't curl away from the keyboard when you typed this. You and I both know this is a blatant lie.

8/15/2008 6:29:12 PM

Typhon

LeftCoastLibrul: if you read this, please post my response in that forum, with a link to here or my nick at the top, as you wish. I don't want to create an account there, but I would like this read by him, assuming you agree with my thoughts at least partly.

Laws, like morals, do not require a divine source. A divine source might make those laws and morals absolute, but that's irrelevant to this case, as the USA doesn't require its laws to be absolute in order to run as it currently does.

Laws, like morals, can also be (and in my mind likely are) a result of our human survival instinct. Crudely put, relinquishing your power over others puts you in a place to demand that others relinquish their power over you. That's the materialistic, subjective value of all men being equal.

Notice however, that once they're in a position of authority, many are quick to successfully retake and (ab)use what power they had previously relinquished. Although it's by no means proof, this does strongly suggest that equality is not an absolute and innate quality, or at least not one that is plainly evident.

Now, if I understand you correctly, you claim that the definition of God is the higher authority that holds you accountable to the law:
"If you hold to the law of this land then to recognize equality of being is to also recognize that there must be an Authority to hold all accountable. So even if you don't believe in God then the law of the United States is your god."

Does this definition include the authority over laws which are malleable?
The laws of the US are subject to a judge's interpretation and the elected lawmakers' rule, change constantly, and even the constitution changes often enough. In extreme cases, the people can even more directly influence the law through demonstrations, lobbying and even coups.

If the laws are changing, then it is fair to say that the higher authority which holds you accountable to it is also changing, at least on the face of it, and is therefore susceptible to change by the whims and decisions of mortals.

This is, as far as I understand it, in contradiction with the common definition of God - by which he is infinite, absolute and unchangeable by any mortal standard, as are his laws, which may be subject to interpretation, but for which only God has final say (and being unchangeable, having final say means even more).

Considering all these differences, I wouldn't put divine authority on the same line with humans adhering to human-designed laws.

8/15/2008 6:46:36 PM

Jay-Sus

I don't think I can finish all this word salad.

8/15/2008 7:45:57 PM

Dark_Lord_Prime

jackanapes (n.):
1. an impertinent, presumptuous person, esp. a young man; whippersnapper.
2. an impudent, mischievous child.
3. Archaic. an ape or monkey.



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!


*gasp*
*wheeze*
*snort*

hahaha... heh.. ha..

Oh, man.. that is either a Poe or the funniest damned Freudian thing ever.

8/15/2008 8:24:49 PM

Geno

..We don't need an 'Authority' to know or do the right thing; it's called 'Free Will' and 'Altruism', which most people are born with. Oh, and the notion of 'all equal under the law' began with the Magna freakin' Carta- a document of British origin back in the 1100's, you damn southern redneck. Look up the history of your culture!

"I have gained this from philosophy: I do for myself what others only do out of fear of the law." ~ Some Greek philosopher.

8/15/2008 10:01:07 PM

Old Viking

Ah got them yamma-yamma-yamma, sho-wish-that-I-could-think- blues.

8/15/2008 11:18:23 PM

crazyroper

And we're the ones with cognitive dissonance.

8/16/2008 2:02:42 AM

Brain_In_A_Jar

I have plenty of basis in fact it's just that as the bible says: A scoffer seeks wisdom in vain, but knowledge is easy for a man of understanding.

The bible is full of shit. Knowledge is never easy to acquire unless it has no value to begin with.

8/16/2008 6:55:07 PM

no-genius

...what if I live in England? huh?

12/9/2008 5:21:00 PM

GoFast

I'd like some Bleu Cheese dressing with that please.

12/9/2008 7:55:41 PM

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