if evolution is true...how come our modern/post modern elitist, cell phone blackberry toting society isn't getting more and more 'civilized' as 'time and chance' go by
liberals have controlled our public policy in all the major 'media' government and educational arenas for about 40 years now....so...
why isn't our society better?
I know evolution = bunk -and- liberalism = bunk
56 comments
No, following the leader with no clue what the hell he stands for is bunk. Labeling half your society as idiots with no justification given is bunk.
Using a biological theory to describe modern social dynamics? That's obviously bunk as well.
Dude, modern western civilization is liberal by definition. That includes the USA. It's probably the most liberal North American nation.
Yet another fundie who has no idea what liberalism is.
So the fact that we just got over 8 years of conservative christian leadership, and piss poor leadership, doesn't show you that your views are a bit fucked? I can't fathom the mindset it must take to believe in that bullshit, it's mind boggling, and it hurts to try. Go read a book, OTHER than your fairy tale book, or a follower thereof. You might actually learn something.
"liberals have controlled our public policy in all the major 'media' government and educational arenas for about 40 years now....so...
why isn't our society better?"
You think American society in 2008 isn't any better than American society in 1968?
Well ... let's compare the rates of violent crime and theft, the average human lifespan, the standard of living, the ease of communicating, the air and water quality, and the per-capita incidence of injury or death due to traffic accidents.
You first...
@tracer: A LOT of people (extreme capitalists mostly, who aren't nearly as rare as one might think) don't think the social safety net is a positive thing. Most people don't realize how bad diseases like polio, smallpox, etc. used to be.
why isn't our society better?
Because a brain that produces a peaceful mindset hasn´t any evolutionary advantage in our society over a brain that produces a more aggressiuve and selfish mindset.
Humans have been around for perhaps 100,000 years. That's an eye blink in the evolutionary process, which, incidentally, has absolutely nothing to do with social progress. As to liberal predominance, I seem to recall Nixon, Reagan, old Bush, and this total moron we're just now getting rid of.
I agree with tracer: overall, society is getting more and more civilized.
I suspect Echoes meant "more and more xian " instead.
Actually you have it backwards, the greatest argument against evolution is conservatives like you. No intelligent human being could have possibly voted for Bush the second time or buy into the legend of how great Reagan's the "rich people piss on the poor people's back and call it rain" economy was.
"how come our modern/post modern elitist, cell phone blackberry toting society isn't getting more and more 'civilized' as 'time and chance' go by"
Because....EVOLUTION DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY!!!
If evolution is true, how come my XP-running computer hasn't evolved into a Vista-laden piece of shit yet?
I hate my computer, ergo, evolution is a lie. Also, Kent Hovind rocks, and something about homos.
"why isn't our society better?"
define better and give examples of how current government is not better than past or other governments
And then tell me how a "better" society would support more sex and babies than what is currently happening.
+1 to Darkloid_Blues re Canadian liberalism vs. American liberalism. In Ontario, it is legal for women to go topless, soft-core porn can be shown on regular TV after 10PM, possession of a single joint is rarely prosecuted, we have universal health care, a vast welfare safety net, and so on.
Can't ever imagine that happening in the US.
You dare question the government?
*cut to Echoes being guillotined*
That is a good question though. OH WAIT
a) chance leads to good as well as bad, that's why it's called 'chance' not just 'progress'.
b) Society is getting more civilised, hence hospitals, benefits for those who cannot work, tolerance of different lifestyles, allowing gays to get married etc. Oh wait, maybe that's just sensible places like Europe.
c) Liberals have never controlled anything in America. You're a moron.
"liberals have controlled our public policy in all the major 'media' government and educational arenas for about 40 years now....so..."
Even if I accepted the rest of your premise, forty years is, what, two generations?! Sociobiology and Behavioural Ecology can in principle be applied to the development of human social groups, but even if liberal policies conferred a significant selective advantage on the groups expressing them, you would be unlikely to see a effect on the population so soon.
Of course, sociologically it may be possible to spot a trend...
"Cross-National Correlations of Quantifiable Societal Health with Popular Religiosity and Secularism in the Prosperous Democracies" - Gregory S. Paul.
"if evolution is true...how come our modern/post modern elitist, cell phone blackberry toting society isn't getting more and more 'civilized' as 'time and chance' go by "
Perhaps there is a violent, bronze age myth still holding back the minds of men and the power hunger of politicans who wish to manipulate it...but maybe Im wrong.
P.S. - Evolution is about biology, but I understand what you were trying to say.
if evolution is true...how come our modern/post modern elitist, cell phone blackberry toting society isn't getting more and more 'civilized' as 'time and chance' go by
We have. Or do you want to go back to the time when black people had no rights and Polio crippled kiddies?
If you don't like mobile phones & Blackberrys (or should I say 'Crackberrys'- I hear they're so addictive, I'd never use one!) and liberalism, why not move to an ULTRA-fundy theocracy like Saudi Arabia?
...oh yes, I forgot, they have mobiles & Crackberrys there too. What the hell, just 'Rapture' yourself!
It isn't? Lessee, we no longer tolerate bigotry based on race and religion, we no longer kill children for disobedience, and we no longer condone slavery. Isn't that an improvement? Oh, wait...
Our society is getting better. We no longer condone slavery, women have equal rights to men, racism is slowly going the way of the dodo, our lifespans are lengthening, etc.
if evolution is true...how come our modern/post modern elitist, cell phone blackberry toting society isn't getting more and more 'civilized' as 'time and chance' go by
Because evolution is about what thrives in its environment, not what you or I or anyone else might think about the way things ought to be.
If creationism is true, why isn't the sky green? Same logic applies...
Oh, and by almost every measurable standard, our society is better. Less death, less disease, less starvation, longer life, ect.
Because society, while influenced by evolution, is its own separate entity?
You can blame our biology for all of the problems society faces. People are advanced on an intellectual levels, but we're still dumb, panicky animals (to quote "Men in Black") on an emotion one. Although there is an evolutionary advantage to being emotional (fear and selfishness help one to preserve themselves), the discrepancy often leads us to misuse out intelligence.
Society HAS been improving, especially from the late 19th century onward. Compared to the barbaric Monarchies and Theocracies of the dark ages, we're living in a god damn utopia.
if evolution is true...how come our modern/post modern elitist, cell phone blackberry toting society isn't getting more and more 'civilized' as 'time and chance' go by
Jay-Sus smash strawman with hands!
dg :
You probably noticed that the message of mine you responded to wasn't the same as the one that's currently posted.
This is because my original message talked about the eradication of many deadly diseases, the advent of Unemployment Insurance, etc. -- and then I re-read Echoes' quote more closely and realized he/she was only commenting on the last 40 years.
Compared to 200 years ago, yes, liberals control this country. Today's conservatives are yesterday's liberals. In another 200 years, maybe even today's liberals will seem conservative.
Funny how as civilization progresses, it necessarily gets more liberal.
1. Evolution is biological, not social.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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