What degree of being unclothed around each other is permitted to spouses before it becomes a sin against marital chastity? Assume that spouses can be unclothed during the marital act, although I've never seen this in writing. But what about incidental situations not related to the marriage debt, such as changing clothes in front of each other, sleeping in skimpy nightwear (or none at all), or even showering together? I'm currently bed confined due to surgery, and my wife has been washing me, but I was wondering if morality required that we get a male home health aide, as bed baths require me to be unclothed not in the context of the marriage act.
103 comments
Why would a man be better than your wife? I'm seeing a queer reasoning here.
Do you even like girls? Most of us would suggest a pretty young nurse to give our wifes a break, y'know.
Uh, I think if you've done the act necessary for the survival of the species it's OK to be unclothed in front of your spouse...
at least, I really hops so, because if you can't that's really sad.
How repressed can you get? This is sad.
If you're not an extremely repressed fundie, nudity is not dangerous whatsoever. If you're married, nudity should be freaking natural, and even if you're not married it won't hurt you.
But I guess it could be dangerous to a guy like this. I grew up very, very close to a nudist beach. If this guy would have spent a summer at that place, I think that his head would have exploded.
re Tracer: Well, former Catholic here, and I've never heard of this before. But then, we were never incredibly religious.
I'm not sure this isn't a troll over there. Even the regulars seem to be responding with "you've gotta be kidding."
The..."marriage act," you say?
Isn't that the bit where you get up in front of an audience and preacher and exchange vows and rings and whatnot?
WTF does that have to do with being naked in front of each other?
This guy is a complete parody of sex-fearing fundies. The question is whether he's doing it on purpose, in which case it's hilarious, or on accident, in which case it's just pathetic and sad.
I always wondered if it was a sin to do my wife in the butt.
Also, is it Biblical ok for a Christian to watch porn if the porn is of a married couple?
If this guy can't even leave bed to carry out basic sanitation, how is he managing to post on the internet? A matter of years ago, this would have been sufficient evidence of trolling; unfortunately, with the spread of wifi and laptops, we can no longer be certain. And we've definitely seen fundies stupid enough to hold this view before. (seriously, is there anything at all in the bible that could be construed to say "don't get naked, ever, even in front of your wife, even if you're actually doing the nasty?")
I'm an ex-Catholic and have never heard of the term, "marriage debt", but apparently it is used in the Catholic church. (it is a mortal sin to refuse your spouse sex, except under certain prescribed circumstances. Google is truly my friend.)
Either this is sophisticated parody or this guy is spending way too much time fantasizing about a "thponge bath".
@tracer: I guess it would have to be a real headache.
The "marriage debt" means that a married person is obliged, under penalty of mortal sin, to give his (or her) married partner sexual intercourse whenever it is reasonably asked for.
Lawful excuses for refusing: Adultery, sickness, drunkenness, insanity, non-support, danger to an unborn baby.
Catholic Apologetics
Sin to be naked?
Depends. You ugly?
(Brain_In_A_Jar)
"If this guy can't even leave bed to carry out basic sanitation, how is he managing to post on the internet?"
Two words: laptop computer.
Canadiest:
Do you even like girls? Most of us would suggest a pretty young nurse to give our wifes a break, y'know.
What do you have against young hot nurses?
Why would you want them to take care of this moron? That's cruel and unusual punishment for the hot young nurses!
What the fuck? Show me where, anywhere, in either Testament, that it's a "sin" for a husband and wife to lust after each other much less see each other naked. This is some seriously repressed bullshit. I'm surprised it's not coming from one of the Rapture Retards (this is for you Chris and Buzzardcunt!!!)
What are you? Amish? if so, what are you doing on the internet?
and this guys on a catholic site, I thought the catholics never got very upitty about sex. once your married your allowed, nay, encouraged to make as many babies as you can, but your worried about a sponge bath?
OMG, Mattapoisett is a town in my home state. Listen, guy, if you don't like girls, once the weather gets warm, head on out to the tip of the Cape. P-Town. You'll enjoy a day trip out there.
You know, you can have sex while fully clothed. Trust me, I've done it before. You should just shut yourself in your room for the rest of your life and live off rats and water from the bathroom sink. Trust me, it's the only way to stop from sinning. :D
I always thought that fundie hole-in-the-sheet-for-sex thing was a joke, but reading this, I'm not so sure. If anybody's ever done that, it's this guy. How sad.
If this is for real, it is just sad.
Good luck to anyone who figures out how to, uh, pay their marriage debt while still wearing clothes.
I was wondering if morality required that we get a male home health aide,
morality required?
You really need to have permission in writing so you can come out, don't you? Should be easy to find a gay priest around to write you a note to show your mommy wife.
Look, pick one--either your wife sees you starkers or another man does.
I think you want the man to do it.
Oh for Christ's sake, how old are you? How long have you been married?
Do you do it with the lights off and a slit in the sheet between the two of you.
Grow up, I have not patience for people like you.
Ok, this wasn't too bad, comparatively, until it got to the "bed confined" part... Oh. My. God.
I mean, if you're mormon, you can't even be nekkid when you're having sex. The magic underwhere has special holes in them. *barf*
As someone currently going through marriage prep in the Catholic church, I can tell you there are very few hang-ups about married sex in the American Catholic church. We've been very clearly counseled that it is good and important and for the purpose of strengthening the marital bond.
Don't blame the Catholic church for this moron. (That should be clear from the reaction of the people on the forum where he posted this)
What kind of moron does it take to question "what's right and wrong" about being naked in front of your spouse?
An adult whose brain failed to leave childhood when his body did, or regressed back to it.
Christianity in particular's got a lot to answer for here, since one of the most popular teachings attributed to Jesus is that his followers must think like little children. I've seen little children think; for all it can be cute sometimes, it's still weak and fallacious and easily skewed by the slightest emotion.
but I was wondering if morality required that we get a male home health aide, as bed baths require me to be unclothed not in the context of the marriage act.
So far, this has been one of the best quotes of the month. lmfao.
Haha, hahaha. This is ridiculous and made my dad :D. The natural human state is to be naked. Anyway...
Oh come on, you just have super low self-esteem and want a man to "wash" certain parts of you eh?
Tom S. Fox won the thread with the first comment, but since everyone else is soldiering on:
"Marital act"? Which one? Putting the garbage bag on the hood of the car so your spouse remembers to take it out? Smiling tightly as your mother-in-law's monologue approaches five minutes in length? Saying "Not tonight, honey, I have a headache"? So many to choose from.
I believe that in the mediaeval period, the Church taught that sex should only take place between a married couple, that it should be for procreation only (you must NOT enjoy it) and it should only ever be done fully clothed. I'm not sure how many people obeyed, even back then. I suspect not very many. People didn't tend to wash much in those days, though, so if you want to obey the ancient ways, just stop washing.
Oh my God (excuse the pun), those poor people.
Catholicism is especially evil at fucking up natural, wonderful human sexuality.
==I'm not sure how many people obeyed, even back then. I suspect not very many.==
Well, from what I read of history, they did obey. I was taught most (European) people never saw anyone naked, not even their spouses. It's hard to conceive now how deeply they believed what the church told them. Tonnes of medieval poetry & tales is about men flagellating themselves about having sex with their wives on Tuesdays and such. Knights were supposed to be virgins. The ideal was to never have sex at all.
@#924086: Virginity may have been promoted as an ideal of knighthood, certainly, but the average knight was generally no pious virgin - he was a thug in armour who was quite partial to a little rape and pillage when the chance arose. You only have to look at how many of them behaved on the Crusades, or in the English wars against Scotland, for example.
Once again it is proven that all fundies--regardless of whether they are Protestant, Catholic, Jewish, or Muslim--are sad, sexually repressed, poor excuses for human beings.
Ahem
I never knew it was a “debt,” but thanks for letting me into the truly, twisted variant of the heterosexual mindset.
As for acquiring a male home health aide: I know at least a couple of depraved queers, who would LOVE to take a sheet of P12 grit designation sandpaper and scrub your stupid ass raw.
Currently (and homosexually) shopping at Lowe’s,
DinDC
My guess is that you are pretty smelly and unattractive after surgery, so I don't think seeing you unclad will drive your wife mad with desire. Also, emptying your bedpan will kill any nascent smoldering lust in her.
WHY
ARE
YOU
ASKING
THIS???
WHY SHOULD THIS BE ANY SORT OF PROBLEM? IF YOU'RE NAKED WITH YOUR SPOUSE, YOU PRESUMABLY AREN'T NAKED WITH SOMEONE WHO ISN'T YOUR SPOUSE AT THE SAME TIME. THE BIBLE NEVER SAYS ANYTHING ABOUT TIMES WHEN YOU CAN'T BE NAKED WITH YOUR SPOUSE.
Let me get this straight. You feel uncomfortable being naked so your WIFE, WHOM YOU HAVE FUCKED AT LEAST ONCE can wash you, but you're PERFECTLY FINE with a RANDOM MALE STRANGER WASHING YOU NAKED???
"What degree of being unclothed around each other is permitted to spouses before it becomes a sin against marital chastity?"
My girlfriend wearing just a choker, black seamed stockings & high heels in bed gets me hot. Blue Balls, much, as you're bedridden? Or getting a stiffy at the thought of that male home help?
There they go again; making everything harder than it really is.
"related to the marriage debt", what debt is that?
The less you see of each other, the more enticing it is, of course. If you are used to seeing her naked, and she is used to seing you naked, the nakedness itself will not immediately inspire "wicked" thoughts.
Somebody else (like a male nurse) seeing you naked, isn't that almost adultery?
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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