Quote# 79902

[I draw your attention to the first amendment and his understanding of church and state]

Recently, President Barack Obama and others in his administration (including Secretary of State Hillary Clinton) have been using the term "freedom of worship." That's a significant departure from the constitutional phrase with which most Americans are familiar: "freedom of religion."

The truth is that changing the word "religion" to "worship" drastically changes what is protected. Read the words of the First Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." That "free exercise" wording protects those whose religion entails much more than worship.

The Left -- specifically the ACLU -- has been extremely successful in misleading the American public into believing that the "separation of church and state" is a constitutional principle. It is not. As a result, far too many people of faith, including pastors, have confined themselves and their worldview within the church walls while godless philosophies and agendas overwhelm the public square.

Christians are called to live our religion, not just observe services on Sundays. An attempt to bamboozle the American people again into believing that the First Amendment only protects the "freedom of worship" will lead to banishing religious expression outside of the church setting in all its forms.

David E. Smith, Illinois Family Institute 56 Comments [3/9/2011 8:50:45 AM]
Fundie Index: 51
Submitted By: aveskde
WTF?! || meh
Username:
Comment:



1 2 3
"Family" Values my ass

In other words, you want your religious freedoms to be religious privileges that trump the civil rights of those who don't share your fascist fundamentalist ideology.

These people can never present their totalitarian perspective honestly and directly; they have to use doublespeak and claim they're acting in the interest of freedom of conscience and religion; but in truth, they only care about their own and are dead-set on eliminating those same rights from minorities.

3/9/2011 8:59:09 AM

Anon-e-moose

"Recently, President Barack Obama and others in his administration (including Secretary of State Hillary Clinton) have been using the term "freedom of worship." That's a significant departure from the constitutional phrase with which most Americans are familiar: "freedom of religion."

So? Whatever, the simple fact is this. The real meaning of those words, added to the Constitution by the Founding Fathers - deists - is this: We won't interfere in how you worship - and whom - if you don't interfere in the State's business.

And I see a lot of the Religious Right's interference in the State's business (only reversed in recent years, via Kitzmiller vs. Dover, the overturning of Prop. 8, repealment of DADT etc). Therefore, give us just one good reason why we Atheists shouldn't have the legal right - with legislational teeth to match - to tell religions - especially right-wing Fuundamentalist Christianity - what to do. That all preachers must bow down and worship we Atheists; because as far as they're concerned we are God - and they must accept this. And we Atheists have the right to rewrite the Bible as we see fit, and according to our whims & fancies, at any time; again, you fundies must accept this.

...what's that? you can't face your religion being under absolute Atheistic control, as per legislation? Well then. Keep your fucking noses out of matters that have never concerned you - nor do you have the right to even have an opinion about such. Matthew 6:6 orders you to.

Four Words, fundies: Quakers. Unitarian Universalists. Amish.

"An attempt to bamboozle the American people again into believing that the First Amendment only protects the "freedom of worship" will lead to banishing religious expression outside of the church setting in all its forms."

Stop it, you're turning me on. Oh, and three words: Westboro Baptist Church.

Those tinfoil hats just not cutting it anymore, eh? And even if 'twere the case, from the point of view of we Atheists, that's a bad thing... how?

--EDIT--

@GigaGuess

"And with that, they tip their hands. They don't care about the freedom to worship, they care about the ability to force their religion on anyone and everyone they can, and see the inability to do so as persecution. Much like the kid that calls child services because he was sent to bed without dessert, really."

'The Puritans didn't leave England to escape persecution, but to find a country in which they could freely persecute others'

-Gore Vidal

3/9/2011 9:03:38 AM

GigaGuess

And with that, they tip their hands. They don't care about the freedom to worship, they care about the ability to force their religion on anyone and everyone they can, and see the inability to do so as persecution. Much like the kid that calls child services because he was sent to bed without dessert, really.

3/9/2011 9:14:03 AM

Zeus Almighty

"Christians are called to live our religion ..."

Aren't christianists also called to be a persecuted minority who go smiling into the arena secure that they will soon be on the left hand of Jebus? (And in the belly of a lion).

3/9/2011 9:18:19 AM

Greater Good

Freedom of worship sounds better anyway.

And no, free exercise doesn't mean what you think it does. It's pretty much the opposite.

3/9/2011 9:24:09 AM

Oat Paste

Stupid me, I thought the the Judicial branch interpreted the law.


3/9/2011 9:57:00 AM

Vesus

These people have turned persecution complex into an art form. Nothing can transpire without them feeling persecuted. Personally, I enjoy it.

3/9/2011 10:08:05 AM

Arctic Knight

"the constitutional phrase with which most Americans are familiar: "freedom of religion." "

Read the Constitution, you will not find "Freedom of Religion" in there. The 1st Ammendment is telling the government to stay out of religion and religion to stay out of government.

3/9/2011 10:12:32 AM

JonnyTruant

The free exercise of your religion protection does not extend to you inflicting your ridiculous views on everyone else.

Freedom of religion = freedom from religion for those who do not believe as you do.

3/9/2011 10:13:22 AM

Giveitaday

Recently, President Barack Obama and others in his administration (including Secretary of State Hillary Clinton) have been using the term "freedom of worship." That's a significant departure from the constitutional phrase with which most Americans are familiar: "freedom of religion."

Those words have been use interchangebly but politicians for decades by politicians both republican and democrat alike, yet you only make issue of it now, when it it's used by a president that people of your ilk like to paint as being "anti american", "foreign", and "anti christian".

The truth is that changing the word "religion" to "worship" drastically changes what is protected.

Now it doesn't, If for no other reason that the freedom of religion gurantees you the right to worship whatever the fuck you choose. Neither Obama nor anyone else has attempted too or so much as suggested that the wording of the 1st ammendment be changed.

Read the words of the First Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." That "free exercise" wording protects those whose religion entails much more than worship.

And no one, including President Obama and Sec. State Clinton has suggested otherwise.

The Left -- specifically the ACLU -- has been extremely successful in misleading the American public into believing that the "separation of church and state" is a constitutional principle. It is not.

The words "separation of church and state" may not appear in the constitution, but the priciple certainly does, Freedom of Religion absolutely requires freedom from religion. Without the latter the former is simply meaningless.

As a result, far too many people of faith, including pastors, have confined themselves and their worldview within the church walls while godless philosophies and agendas overwhelm the public square.

The public square? Were that the case then why is it that I cannot go a single day without seeing someone or other on the news telling me that <insert inane religious drivel here> must be made into law because thats the way "god" intended.

Religion hasn't been banished from the public square and to claim otherwise is a damnned lie, pure and simple. Moreover, the public square isn't what you are after, you want religion, and in particular your religion exclusively, to exercise undue and underserved influence over government and it's policies.


Christians are called to live our religion, not just observe services on Sundays

But what you are bitching about is essentially not being able to make everyone else "live" your religion and obey it's tenets by force of law.

An attempt to bamboozle the American people again into believing that the First Amendment only protects the "freedom of worship" will lead to banishing religious expression outside of the church setting in all its forms.

Expression, religious or otherwise, is and always has been protected by the freedom of speech and expression, not the freedom of religion which gurantees your right to follow the religion, or lack thereof, of your choice and to not have any one religion or that religions beliefs and tenets imposed on you by the government. I will also point out, once again, that no one in the current administration, or any other for that matter, has suggested or insinuated anything even remotely like the scenario you suggest.

This entire diatribe is nothing more than the typical fundamentalist persecution fetish card. A pathetic attempt to elicit anger, fear, and pity from some segment of the populace by inventing imaginary persecution of that segment. There is a name for that deplorable tactic, The Politice of Fear and the Warfare of Cowards.

3/9/2011 10:23:12 AM

Allegory for Jesus

What's a good mindless conservative conspiracy rant without bringing up the ACLU? Nothing, that's what it is!

3/9/2011 10:24:34 AM

Brendan Rizzo

I don't see the connection. If you have freedom of worship, then freedom of religion basically comes with thta. Of course, you're just pissed off that you no loner have carte blanche to do what you want and justify it by claiming that being a douche is mandated by your religion.

3/9/2011 10:24:43 AM

Alleyprowler

My, they do get worked up over nothing, don't they?

I almost wish I knew a fundie in 3-D space so I could ask them what would happen if we had a theocracy and the state god wasn't theirs.

3/9/2011 10:44:49 AM

Swede

You are free to live your religion as much as you want, as long as you don't interfere on someone else's rights.
That's the problem, isn't it? You want to be able to force others to follow your doctrine, right?

Move tho Iran, there people are forced to follow the religious doctrine of the State. You'll probably like Islam more than you think, if you really give it a chance...

3/9/2011 10:53:30 AM

Dr. Razark

"The Left -- specifically the ACLU -- has been extremely successful in misleading the American public into believing that the 'separation of church and state' is a constitutional principle. It is not."

Would you please explain exactly what the First Amendment means, then?

3/9/2011 10:57:57 AM

Mister Spak

"That "free exercise" wording protects those whose religion entails much more than worship. "

My religion requires christians be fed to lions. It's way past time to freely exercise it.

Alleyprowler: The responses I get are usually
1.that other religions gods aren't real so they don't get to force everyone to obey them

or

2. Satan always tries to persecute christians by taking over the government and making their religion illegal.

3/9/2011 11:19:51 AM

JohnTheAtheist

You are a stupid douche. Feel free to spread The Good News however you like. No one will stop you. However, if you want the government to spread it for you you have a constitutional problem. Why is this so hard to understand?

3/9/2011 11:24:07 AM

nazani14

I move that we replace both terms with "freedom of woo."

3/9/2011 11:31:14 AM

GigaGuess

@Alleyprowler

Do you one better. Ask them which branch of Christianity should be instated. Catholicism, Baptist Christianity, Protestantism...just to name a few, without even going into the podunk snake handling churches.

3/9/2011 11:40:01 AM

Godbuster

You see, I don't think it was such a good idea to allow the free practice of thinking like: everybody must be like us or burn forever.

But then again, limit one kind of thinking, limit ALL thinking.

3/9/2011 11:42:33 AM

feralboy12

Thanks for admitting that being able to worship in the way you want isn't good enough for you. Not every complete fucking asshole I run across is so honest.

3/9/2011 11:48:22 AM

TheJebusFire

[Christians are called to live our religion, not just observe services on Sundays. ]

I thought Christianity wasn't a religion but a relationship with Jesus? Make up your damn mind already.

3/9/2011 1:35:09 PM

Rat of Steel

(nazani14)
"I move that we replace both terms with 'freedom of woo'."


That's a good idea. In fact, I know just the guy who'd be perfect to get it going:


3/9/2011 1:43:07 PM

Murdin

"An attempt to bamboozle the American people again into believing that the First Amendment only protects the "freedom of worship" will lead to banishing religious expression outside of the church setting in all its forms."

The problem with "things in religion beyond worship" is that they almost always entail infringing upon other people's freedoms. Not that you fundies actually care about the freedoms of other people, of course.

3/9/2011 1:53:40 PM

Papabear

So, my religion is protected even though its major tenet is machine gunning all Fundies? Thanks, David. Now, up against the wall, please.

3/9/2011 1:58:01 PM
1 2 3