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Quote# 86177

Since the war, 1,600 medical papers have been written on "The Psychological and Medical Effects of the Concentration Camps on Holocaust Survivors."

This so-called "Holocaust Survivor Syndrome" involves "group fantasies of martyrdom and heroics." Reportedly, half the 20,000 survivor testimonies in Jerusalem are considered "unreliable," not to be used in trials.

Finally, the death engine. During the war, the underground government of the Warsaw Ghetto reported to London that the Jews of Treblinka were being electrocuted and steamed to death.

The Israeli court, however, concluded the murder weapon for 850,000 was the diesel engine from a Soviet tank which drove its exhaust into the death chamber. All died in 20 minutes, Finkelstein swore in 1945.

The problem is: Diesel engines do not emit enough carbon monoxide to kill anybody. In 1988, 97 kids, trapped 400 feet underground in a Washington, D.C., tunnel while two locomotives spewed diesel exhaust into the car, emerged unharmed after 45 minutes.

Demjanjuk's weapon of mass murder cannot kill.

Pat Buchanan, The Holocaust History Project 16 Comments [2/23/2012 4:42:22 AM]
Fundie Index: 19
Submitted By: Rabbit of Caerbannog
WTF?! || meh
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Amadan

Tell you what, Pat: we'll just hook this diesel engine up to your window there and go for a little walk while you take a few deep breaths.

Shouldn't do you any harm, right?

Mind you, the hot gas that you emit is definitely noxious. I'd avoid talking and just enjoy the diesel fumes.

Off we go now...

2/23/2012 5:13:05 AM

\m/>_<\m/

try it then, see how you fare. go on, i'll watch
(remembering the politician who got waterboarded)

2/23/2012 5:17:23 AM

Bollox

Noxious bastard. Why did it take so long for MSNBC to drop him?

2/23/2012 5:38:17 AM

Matante

Health class for today: hemoglobin has 200 times more affinity for carbon monoxyde than oxygen.
There is 20% of oxygen in the air around us. 20% X 1/200 = 0,1%
This is the concentration of carbon monoxide a person can breathe before it begins to replace oxygen in one's blood. Twice that is deadly.

2/23/2012 5:50:57 AM

aaa

Mind if you test this hypothesis? Seal your garage airtight, put a large-displacement diesel tank there and start it. Please, do it now.

2/23/2012 6:32:34 AM

Brendan Rizzo

I didn't know Pat Buchanan was a Holocaust denialist. We have to spread this around as much as possible.

Why does it matter exactly how they were killed, Pat? The important thing is they were killed. And do you know why they were killed? Because of bigots like you.

Oh, how I wish for the day when Americans like Pat Buchanan are seen for the nutjobs they are, and don't have any massive, loyal followings. If he lived in Europe and said what he said, he would have committed political suicide. And this is why I hate my fellow Americans.

2/23/2012 7:28:39 AM

Doubting Thomas

Who cares whether it was a Soviet tank or Zyklon B? The simple fact is that the Holocaust happened, it was a terrible thing for humans to do to other humans, and any idiot who denies that it happened is just a racist idiot asshole. I'm guessing that's the angle Pat is trying to go for.

2/23/2012 7:40:53 AM

J. James

What's the point here? The holocaust still happened, you know.

2/23/2012 8:44:18 AM



Man up and try it out, then.

2/23/2012 10:06:47 AM

zipperback

Taken from The Washington Post by way of Wikipedia.

When asked for his source, Buchanan said, "somebody sent it to me." Critic Jamie McCarthy says this claim may have come from the German American Information and Education Association's newsletter, a publication he accused of anti-Semitism and Holocaust denial. He also argues that:

Unlike the locomotive engineer in Buchanan's example, who was concerned with saving the lives of trapped people, the Nazis had no qualms about opening the engine's throttle and restricting the air intake.[154]

The Washington Post reported in 1989, before the controversy, that:

An Amtrak train had been stalled in a tunnel for half an hour, and smoke from the diesel engine had filled the first car, where there were 97 fifth-grade pupils and 27 adult chaperones. [EMT Cynthia] Brown boarded the train, guided the passengers — most of whom suffered from smoke inhalation — from the car and assisted those who needed immediate attention.[155]

2/23/2012 12:43:41 PM

Unbeliever

Oh come on, its Pat Buchanan. Anything he says can be safely posted here. Just like shooting a fish in the barrel.

2/24/2012 7:42:38 AM

Colgate

Reminds me of the joke that Pat Buchanan had a relative who perished in the Holocaust - his uncle fell off a guard tower at Auschwitz.

2/24/2012 9:17:55 AM

Jockaira

A diesel motor properly tuned and used usually cannot emit enough carbon monoxide to kill humans except after several hours or perhaps days. It is probable that humans and a diesel sharing the same atmosphere would "die" at pretty much the same time as both require a minimum oxygen content in the air to sustain their respective "metabolisms".

Carbon monoxide is usually formed as the result of incomplete burning of hydrocarbon-based fuels. The high burning efficiency of diesels usually makes this formation unlikely or of such low concentrations that burning of oxygen will deplete the air of oxygen before levels of carbon monoxide become deadly.

However the fuel-air mixture of a diesel can be adjusted to an over-rich condition that would yield large concentrations of carbon monoxide because of incompletely burnt fuel. This can easily be done in equipment such as a military tank of WWII vintage (before computer-controlled mixture and fuel injection) where mixture had to be adjusted manually according to load conditions, weather, etc.

It's not likely that a diesel could kill people under these conditions through carbon-monoxide poisoning alone in such short time, nevertheless victims could be overcome by low oxygen levels, high carbon-dioxide levels, and insufficient blood-oxygenation due to less than fatal levels of carbon monoxide which would prevent blood oxygenation. At first they would become unconscious due to lowered oxygen after a few minutes, and then over a period of hours succumb to lack of blood oxygenation because of the persistance of carbon monoxide in the blood.

Nazi tank commanders and mechanics certainly had the expertise to handle such ad-hoc executions regardless of the exact physiological mechanism, and the cost of this "final solution" would have been very attractive to the bean-counters in Berlin. Much cheaper than bullets and probably more environmentally benign than Zyklon-D.

2/24/2012 8:11:56 PM

Papabear

C'mon Pat, bend on down and have a few big tokes off my truck's exhaust pipe. Then we can talk about you revisionist histories.

2/25/2012 9:22:06 AM



"The Israeli court, however, concluded the murder weapon for 850,000 was the diesel engine from a Soviet tank which drove its exhaust into the death chamber. All died in 20 minutes, Finkelstein swore in 1945.

The problem is: Diesel engines do not emit enough carbon monoxide to kill anybody. In 1988, 97 kids, trapped 400 feet underground in a Washington, D.C., tunnel while two locomotives spewed diesel exhaust into the car, emerged unharmed after 45 minutes."

30 minutes, lots of them were in trouble, tunnels have fucking air vents instead of being airtight, and engines had gotten a lot cleaner between the mid 40's and the 80's.

Oh, and people have killed themselves by running a diesel engine in an enclosed space for a few minutes before now... how on earth do you explain that??

2/25/2012 11:44:18 AM

werewolf

All Pat ever needed was the mustache. The man was born too late and in the wrong country.

2/27/2012 8:55:38 AM
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