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Quote# 87818

["PIV" means "penis-in-vagina (intercourse)" among radical feminists.]

Well, PIV is natural for animals because they have hormonal drives which pushes them to copulate at given times, either during estrus or at given seasons, according to their biological needs. Since they copulate only when their nature/body tells them to, it can’t be rape in my opinion.

Humans on the other hand have no pre-ordained sexuality: there’s nothing in the human body that pushes us to copulate at any given time, we don’t have any hormonal drives during estrus that forces us to seek a mate for PIV and it’s not part of our basic and necessary body functions/needs like peeing or breathing. sexuality is completely social and learned. It’s been seen on some adults who’ve never learned about PIV not to know “how to make a baby” and it didn’t cross their minds to do PIV. PIV isn’t natural but socially institutionalised by men through compulsory heterosexuality, marriage and rape. It certainly isn’t a recreative practice either since men use it as a *weapon* against women to control them – and it IS a weapon of war given the harm it causes women. And as Feuerwerferin says, PIV isn’t even necessary for reproduction since sperm on the vulva is enough to cause pregnancy. Plus the trauma-bonding (trauma = survival mechanism to something wrong being done to you = that something needs to stop). Plus the fact that having something the size of an erect penis thrust into your body with a naked man all over you is in itself deeply invasive despite the genital stimulation that is most often just reactive or mechanically activated after years of grooming and is usually only triggered after some first seconds of pain. (PAIN!! that’s a normal body sign telling something’s *wrong!*). without counting that at the beginning of PIV grooming it’s most often just painful, irksome, or at best there’s not much sensation, and the girl usually feels she *has* to do it because she’s already groomed to believe her value lies in being fucked by men.

Anyway, these are many reasons that make me say PIV is in no way a natural human practice, and that women’s vagina isn’t meant to be penetrated at all, but only meant to expel a baby.

witchwind, Radfem Hub 101 Comments [6/14/2012 3:35:25 AM]
Fundie Index: 141
Submitted By: Wykked Wytch
WTF?! || meh
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Argle Bargle

Y'know, most women have penetrative sex because they enjoy it, not because there's some bizarre conspiracy made to brainwash women into accepting it.

Also, how can something that occurs in nature be somehow unnatural?

6/14/2012 3:46:49 AM

nutbunny

I don't know how you resist the urge to get off. Nerves of steel. After 3 days of not touching myself... well... it gets a bit difficult not to.

That's a drive. You're just like the religious nuts, separating us from animals as beings above and beyond base instincts, but we're not. We have a greater capacity for mind fucking ourselves into not fulfilling basic instincts but it only goes so far. That's when the atavist inside all of us decides to visit.

PIV increases the chances of fertilisation, hence the 'fits like glove' property. You also sound like you are not sexually attracted to males. So stop fretting about fucking and get a diving buddy.

6/14/2012 3:51:18 AM

michael3ov

"without counting that at the beginning of PIV grooming it’s most often just painful, irksome, or at best there’s not much sensation, and the girl usually feels she *has* to do it because she’s already groomed to believe her value lies in being fucked by men. "

What planet are you from? You can't possibly have many female friends.

I have known woman who are much more sexual than most men. Everyone is not exactly like you Mrs. solipsism.

6/14/2012 3:51:55 AM

Zimmer

This shit is as bad as the evo-psychs over in the raging MRA misogynist camp.

It's just like creationism. Ignore everything about biology and history, make shit up as if it were fact, and refuse to change your mind. Viola, instant crazy.

6/14/2012 3:56:13 AM

Percy Q. Shunn

*raises tumbler with four fingers of single-malt Scotch*

Here's to all that unnatural PIV sex I had with all those harlots who allowed me to thrust into their bodies whilst naked back in my rock band days!

6/14/2012 3:56:22 AM

whatever

So why does the vagina get wet when a woman is sexually aroused?

Also, stop being bitter just because no man wants you. If you keep on like this, you will never experience PIV. And I know you want PIV, no matter how much you say you don't.

6/14/2012 3:56:33 AM

fishtank

I don't even.

6/14/2012 3:59:43 AM

Pule Thamex

It might be considered commendable that you feel strongly enough about something to express keenly felt opinions. But need they include blatant lies and stupidity. You sound like an indoctrinated fundie.

You may say, "Yes but you're a man, you would say that". That may be true to some extent since I am a man. But I asked my wife, and she is a woman. Oddly enough, pain, domination, rape and rabid fundie wishful thinking have never been our bag.

6/14/2012 4:04:45 AM

Ebon

You know you're clinically insane, right?

6/14/2012 4:07:50 AM

Filin De Blanc

"and that women’s vagina isn’t meant to be penetrated at all, but only meant to expel a baby."

Erm, how exactly do you propose the baby get in there to be expelled without something having penetrated the vagina to start with?

6/14/2012 4:08:40 AM

Paler_Face

Yeah, dildos only exist so that masochist women can gratify their unnatural desires for penetration.

*sigh*

6/14/2012 4:08:41 AM

MK

"women’s vagina isn’t meant to be penetrated at all, but only meant to expel a baby."

Ummmmm....

6/14/2012 4:15:56 AM

shykid

"women’s vagina isn’t meant to be penetrated at all, but only meant to expel a baby."

What the fuck?? What planet are you on, you crazy bitch?! Just how the hell do you think a baby would get in there?? Do you think we've had in-vitro fertilization and artificial insemination since the dawn of humanity?

Maybe your vagina isn't "meant" to be penetrated and heterosexual sex doesn't come natural to you, but that would be because you're either a lesbian or asexual. And that's perfectly fine, but most people have at least some if not exclusively heterosexual attractions, so "PIV" comes natural to them. Deal with it. Yeah, honestly, sometimes heterosexual sex seems kind of weird to me too, but I'm not heterosexual, and I still know there's nothing wrong with heterosexuality or heterosexual intercourse.

Patriarchy and all its disgusting cohorts—misogyny, male privilege, objectification, rape culture, etc.—did not start because some guy stuck his penis in some gal's vagina. The fact that your vagina was biologically developed primarily for reproduction via coitus does not mean any of the things you've apparently associated with the idea: that fucking and baby-making are all women are good for, that women are obligated to make babies or have sex whenever their partner wants it, that rigid gender roles and male privilege are acceptable, or that rape and sexual objectification are ok. Hell, the value of a man can be similarly reduced to nothing more than a sperm bank if you think of people solely in terms of the function of their reproductive organs.

The notion that all penetration is "degrading" or "wrong" is the result of patriarchal culture incorrectly regarding: (1.) penetration as inherently feminine; (2.) femininity as degrading, inferior, and a sign of weakness and subservience; (3.) weakness or vulnerability itself as dehumanizing character flaws, which is already a very strongly misguided notion regardless of the fact that femininity is not a weakness or vulnerability in the first place; (4.) character flaws as a valid reason for dehumanization, which is similarly a very strongly misguided notion regardless of the fact that weakness and vulnerability are not character flaws in the first place; (5.) the value of females as being measured solely in terms of their sexual attractiveness, reproductive capacity, and other "usefulness" to men (i.e. the textbook definition of objectification), making them valid targets for rape and violence as a result of aforementioned dehumanization; (6.) and the systematic discrimination, violence, objectification, rape, and other injustices against those whom they oppress as a natural, acceptable, and deserved consequence of the perceived weakness that dehumanizes them.

I think that that pretty much covers the general gist of it and why I think you have some kind of internalized misogyny going on in that head of yours, but it's quite a bit of a simplification for the sake of brevity. This comment is already too long—sorry for the length and choir-preaching, guys, but as a male who self-identifies as a feminist, who genuinely works to support gender equality and expose patriarchalism, male privilege, and misogyny for what it is and does, and who owns up to his male privilege and tries to offset it instead of denying it as though it were some kind of coupon one can choose to redeem or an offer one can decline, the posts on this particular site tend to really push my buttons and spark a nigh-insatiable urge to write passionate and lengthy responses. It feels weird and kind of hurts to be attacked by your own camp, even when it's only by a small, crazy, and out-of-touch fringe minority not representative of the whole.

Heterosexual sex is perfectly possible without objectification, degradation, dominance, or rape. All it takes is a clear establishment of mutual consent, mutual respect of personal boundaries and each other, and both partners regarding one another as equals and as human beings who are worth more than their physical attractiveness, sexual abilities, and willingness to "put out." But those things apply to virtually all sex, not just heterosexual sex.

In case the people on that site actually stumble upon this, here is some more reading for the crazy man-hating, male-phobic, and heterophobic people who identify as feminists:

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex-positive_feminism
- http://jezebel.com/5361789/can-a-man-be-a-feminist
- http://www.xyonline.net/sites/default/files/DON%27T%20BE%20A%20DICK_ZINE.pdf

[size=16]TL;DR: Feminism, you're doing it so very wrong.[/size]

6/14/2012 4:16:26 AM

Grimsoncrow

Speak for yourself, you frigid weirdo.Then again, if your rant is anything to go by, anyones dick would propably freeze and snap off...

6/14/2012 4:39:25 AM

Brendan Rizzo

These women are very confused. Apparently projection is not a practice exclusive to fundamentalist Christians.

Also, they appear to have the definition of rape backwards.

6/14/2012 4:48:11 AM

Gawd

It's hormones that make humans do the PIV also, and I didn't bother reading anything after that.

6/14/2012 4:51:50 AM

Reynardine

I hate to tell you this, but there is no estrus/rut period in humans because we are always hormonally primed. What healthy adult human beings lack is anoestrum: there is no time when men's testicles shrink up and reascend and there is no time when a woman's vagina closes and her uterus shrinks. We're always so primed it's a wonder we're not doing it in the streets. It's a wonder we took time to make streets. Like our bonobo cousins, our permanent sexuality is a source of our social bonds. I'm sorry you had a bad trip. That's all.

6/14/2012 5:03:47 AM

beehummingbird

"PAIN!! that’s a normal body sign telling something’s *wrong!"

"women’s vagina isn’t meant to be penetrated at all, but only meant to expel a baby"

Ive never had a baby or sex, but I think that expelling a baby from my vagina would be a lot more painful than just having a penis inside it.

So, by your logic having babies must be even more unnatural than PIV.

6/14/2012 5:05:13 AM

Jezebel's Evil Sister

Most women enjoy PIV. I know I sure do!

If you find it painful, you need to see a gynecologist.

Then, you need to truck your nasty butt across the hall and see the psychologist.

6/14/2012 5:09:17 AM

GalvatronPrime

Radfem Hub = the Westboro Baptist Church of feminism.

6/14/2012 5:14:41 AM

Philbert McAdamia

"and that women’s vagina isn’t meant to be penetrated at all, but only meant to expel a baby."

Reminds me; back in the 8th grade when, for "sex ed." we watched cartoons about heredity, and the fetilization of sperm & egg, cell division, etc., ho hum. Pretty exciting stuff, I suppose, for a biology geek, but most of us 14 yeear olds would rather have gotten much more out of a John Holmes fuck flick. In the Q&A part one girl asked, "But how does the sperm get into the mother?"
That was in 1958, and to date the howls of laughter have subsided, somewhat.

6/14/2012 5:30:48 AM

Mister Spak

"Anyway, these are many reasons that make me say PIV is in no way a natural human practice, and that women’s vagina isn’t meant to be penetrated at all, but only meant to expel a baby."

How did that baby get there in the first place?


6/14/2012 5:35:11 AM

Nicole

About the only thing accurate in this is that society frequently treats single women as inferior. It is a problem, and it should be addressed.

...But holy crap, SOME LADIES JUST LIKE THE COCK.

6/14/2012 6:04:25 AM

Doubting Thomas

If sex is a pain in the ass, you're doing it wrong.

6/14/2012 6:12:08 AM

Apatheist

These ladies have a horrible understanding of biology. A vagina can't expel a baby unless there's been a dick in it at some point (disregarding artificial means).

6/14/2012 6:19:16 AM
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