Many people are educable; but shrinks are not
Their "education" prevents it. They truly believe that their naive attempts at classification of human diversity represent some sort of eternal underlying reality, rather than evanescent social labels.
I've experienced a lifetime of oppression from shrinks and "school psychologists". Even as an adult we are not free from them, because you need a "diagnosis" from them to get surgery. (And we used to need a "diagnosis" to get hormones, but the Internet and offshore pharmacies changed that.) For decades, they were in the business of denying hormones to people they didn't think would turn out to be attractive heterosexual women. Shrinks are gender police.
And I for one do not feel an obligation to educate our oppressors. This is like trying to educate your domestic abuser husband. You cannot educate someone who holds unjust power over you. Our progress comes on the mass culture front -- through media images and high profile people like Chas Bono or Lana Wachowski. It comes on the legal front by working as an activist. It does not come from futile attempts to "educate" individual idiot shrinks.
18 comments
To be fair, there are psychologists out there that will put a Trans person through all the hoops, a process that can take years, and still deny them treatment. I'm not really seeing conspiracy here so much as frustration at a system that has failed this person in particular.
I fully agree with Stonespiral. Psychologists can be as prejudiced as anyone else, but they're in a position where it has more consequences on other people's life. This post sounds angry, not paranoid or anything.
Hold on just a minute, guys. Justified or not, this trans person is using some pretty creepy language here. "Not educable?" "gender police?" "our oppressors?" If this was someone talking about the Jews, there would be no doubt. But this person is honestly sounding like- and I can't believe I'm actually using this word- a homofascist.
@Stonespiral
To be fair, the treatment is something that cannot be completely reversed so making damned sure the person really is suffering from dysphoria rather than anything else that the treatment wouldn't affect/"cure" is a very good thing.
As for those saying it's not being a CT?
"For decades, they were in the business of denying hormones to people they didn't think would turn out to be attractive heterosexual women."
Whether they are angry at something that has happened or not, that is claiming a conspiracy.
I lived with a trans woman for long enough, and that line alone is more than enough to show this person is no longer in touch with reality.
I agree that this person has clearly had a lot of bad experiences. However, claims that shrinks "were in the business of denying hormones to people they didn't think would turn out to be attractive heterosexual women", that shrinks are not "educable", that they are the "gender police", that "you cannot educate someone who holds unjust power over you"? You may sympathise with the reason behind this person holding these beliefs, but that doesn't change the fact that these beliefs are not sane.
There are legitimate gripes (and boy do trans people have reasons for them!) and then there's seeing a large agenda when there isn't one, except some sort of general climate (in my mind, a society that has by and large come to grips with homosexuality is still really struggling with transgender people, even as a concept).
It's really sad and still quite delusional.
I still don't see much that indicates a real off the wall conspiracy nut here. This is a person that's angry with how they've been treated and maybe they are being excessive about it but it's not noteworthy in the scheme of things.
I always go the idea that this section is supposed to be for conspiracy theorists that go beyond realm of possibility. Not angry, possibly overblown, posts about stuff we know does actually happen to people.
Stonespiral, obviously everyone here feels very sorry for transgendered people. They've been dealt a godawful hand in life, and it is an unimaginable cross for them to bear. BUT, we shouldn't let our sympathies obfuscate conspiracy theories as mere angst. This person clearly thinks that psychiatrists are all corrupted, evil things, who are all secretly out to get trans people. This person believes that so vehemently, s/he finds them not just repugnant but utterly irredeemable. How is that any different from other conspiracy theories?
@ J. James
There is not much you can say that will make me agree. Saying 'shrinks' here is no different than saying 'fundies' elsewhere.
To me, putting this post here is keeping the bar strangely low for how much crazy it takes to be a 'conspiracy theorist' worthy of tin-foil hat awards and the like.
And that's all I'm going to say any further.
So let me get this straight--a psychiatrist denied you horomone treatment out of concern for you mental health, and now he's oppressing you? Because concern for your well-being is so evil.
For those who think this isn't a conspiracy theory--she's accusing all psychiatrists of being in on a plot to prevent people from changing genders because they won't be hot enough. Doesn't that sound a little deranged to you?
@Stonespiral
"I always go the idea that this section is supposed to be for conspiracy theorists that go beyond realm of possibility."
Yep...
"For decades, they were in the business of denying hormones to people they didn't think would turn out to be attractive heterosexual women."
And there you go... or do you think it is possible that Psychiatrists have, for decades, been refusing people hormones because they didn't think they'd turn into a beautiful hetrosexual woman??
If you think that is possible, then I've got bad news for you...
"Not angry, possibly overblown, posts about stuff we know does actually happen to people."
Welp... you *do* think it's possible. The fact that there is no record of that ever happening shows you believe the conspiracy yourself.
i don't see anything suggesting there's a conspiracy.
"For decades, they were in the business of denying hormones to people they didn't think would turn out to be attractive heterosexual women."
i don't hear conspiracy with that. it'd be as if i said my long scraggly beard has cost me job opportunities. i'm not saying that there's an anti-beard conspiracy out there, i'm saying that there's a most likely not fully conscious bias against bearded men, at least in many office settings.
calling them oppressors and gender police seems hyperbolic, but not paranoid. and saying that someone knows too much to understand, that all the shit they know prevents them from understanding what's directly in front of their face... well, if that makes someone crazy, they're in good company.
anyway, sounds frustrated, not paranoid. but i probably just have a case of whacked out poo brain.
People sometimes make mistakes getting a sex change operation. If they didn't make them jump through hoops instead we'd be hearing about someone complaining about being mislead into a sex change.
I think they don't do enough. They should require a brain scan as part of diagnosis. Since that's what the theory is based on then we would expect that people reporting gender dysphoria that don't match the brain chemistry of most transsexuals probably have other things going on which if fixed may lead them not to want to change their sex.
@Stonespiral:
This is the language of a totalist. atana has divided the world up into three groups - the awake(such as atana), the sleeping (the masses, to be awoken through mass culture and legal activism), and the oppressors (every single psychiatrist).
There is no nuance in atana's belief. _All_ shrinks are oppressive authority figures - the gender police. Psychiatrists, in atana's viewpoint, are the same sort of scum as domestic abusers. They're monolithic in their hatred of trans people - "denying hormones" to everyone except people who would "turn out to be attractive heterosexual women".
atana is part of the oppositional milieu - the heretics of modern culture. That by itself doesn't mean much. In the oppositional milieu you'll find Neo-Nazis and destructive cults, but you'll also find (in American culture, at least) atheists, gay-rights activists, greens, and many other groups. It is the combination of oppositional milieu and totalist beliefs, however, that are toxic - it's what makes the difference between a pagan who wants his religion to be taken seriously and Varg Vikernes who burned down three churches for the glory of Odin.
Look again at the post. Not so much the content of it, but how it's used. It sets up a world of black and white, right and wrong.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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