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Quote# 93409

(For reference, this is from a response to a fellow Calvinist who felt agonized by his wife's barrenness, the thriving of the ungodly, etc., and the to-him-fact that God had directly decreed all this. To the point that his prayer frequency had lessened. The tone of the letter suggested he was imploring Cheung for a way to divine good out of all this so the agony would stop. If you somehow want to read the whole thing, start from p. 100.)

The question that Paul says we should not ask [in Romans 9] is precisely the one that you are asking: "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?'" If you are a reprobate, then the matter is simple. This passage says that God has made someone like you so that someone like me can learn about his wrath, his power, and his patience – that he would tolerate someone like you for so long – and in contrast, about his riches and mercy toward me. So if you are a reprobate, this would be a satisfying conclusion to my response.

However, our working assumption is that you are a Christian. Even so, the passage is relevant. Notice that God reveals himself to the elect not only through the objects of wrath, whom he has prepared for destruction, but those who are saved are objects of his mercy – they themselves have been sinners, only that God has decided to sovereignly show them mercy. "Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden" (Romans 9:18).


Vincent Cheung, Invincible Faith 39 Comments [3/28/2013 3:40:13 AM]
Fundie Index: 32
Submitted By: Skyknight
WTF?! || meh
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Passerby

Translation:

"God makes your misery for the benefit (and entertainment) of true believers like me... you are unworthy or an object lesson. I don't care which it is but the schadenfreude is fantastic."

3/28/2013 4:02:20 AM

MK

Summation: God is an ass.

3/28/2013 4:03:15 AM

UHM


3/28/2013 4:05:25 AM

Filin De Blanc

I bet when Cheung is feeling depressed he goes to a hospice so he can laugh about how the patients there are dying and he isn't.

3/28/2013 4:17:33 AM

the_ignored

Where are the lions when you need them?

3/28/2013 4:51:40 AM

Doubting Thomas

I'm guessing that this response did little to reaffirm the other guy's faith or make him feel better. And they wonder why people are becoming less religious.

3/28/2013 4:55:38 AM

Arts_Myth

Calvinism: Making God indistinguishable from random chance since the 16th century.

3/28/2013 5:01:30 AM

Reynardine

Well, Vincent, besides being vicious, you're grandiose.

3/28/2013 5:10:21 AM

Baked Goods

If there really was a God, replying as such, to a fellow Christian, who is already under considerable emotional distress, would have probably made Vincent's thingies fall off.

Incidentally, what I'd REALLY like to see is a public "debate" between this guy and someone like Ray Comfort. Holy monkey balls, just imagine, ol' Ray having to be the voice of reason.

3/28/2013 5:37:42 AM

Hasan Prishtina

The moral here is: don't go to Vincent Cheung for advice.

3/28/2013 6:19:38 AM

Joe Mama

"God makes you suffer so righteous people like me can see how great he is."

I'm guessing that if the other guy isn't an atheist yet, he will be soon.

3/28/2013 7:21:17 AM

Mister Spak

When god screws you over you should say "thank you sir may I have another".

3/28/2013 7:25:56 AM

Papabear

""Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden" (Romans 9:18)."

So, your point is that your God saves some people and damns others at a whim? You God is a sh*t.

3/28/2013 7:47:36 AM

fishtank

what an ASSHOLE.

But what can you expect from a calvin lover.

3/28/2013 8:24:47 AM

Xotan

Calvinists....ugh!

They have made their god in their own warped minds and there is no way of knowing god except through he their minds. They are aso into predestination. Those not predestined for heaven are damned to hell no matter how good a life they lead. Seems to me this is a passport to absolute libetinism. There is no point in being good. Logical clonclusion is to ignore such an unpleasant god and enjoy the present, since the future is going to be nasty anyway.

To note about Jean Calvin, he burned alive a man who was once his best friend. And you would call that man a friend?

3/28/2013 8:52:36 AM

Liberal Christian

Calvinists are all sociopaths in my view so I automatically dismiss everything they say with regard to Christianity.

3/28/2013 9:12:11 AM

SpukiKitty

Somebody better stop this subhuman psychopath!

I want to give the poor gentleman who wrote to this turd-sucker a big hug. I want to tell him that the God that he & Vinnie Chode-rot is false & Demiurgic & find another faith if he still believes in a higher power.

Not-So-Reverend Vile Chode is a PSYCHOPATH TO THE CORE! How could anyone follow him or read his books? I know the Jesus said "Love Thy Neighbor" & "Love & Pray For Your Enemies/Evil People" but DAMN...I can't help want to hear that Mr. Cheung was kidnapped & given the ol' "Black Dahlia Treatment". What an an evil little person.

Y'know what's frustrating? I'm trying to find articles debunking or refuting this guy. I haven't found one website that calls this jerk out!

Y'know, I have a big question for others. Have any of you guys tried to find a certain type of article & no matter what keywords or keyword combos you use, you can't find it? Why does that happen? Are the sites you're trying to find censored or blocked or do they just not exist?

I have Google. I know that Google can some times get censor-happy. They also have changed the filtering settings so it's all or nothing, no more "None-Moderate-Strict" settings. Can any of you suggest a search engine that's less censor-happy and with better search & filter abilities?

Sorry I'm asking this here. I don't know where to go. It's frustrating.

3/28/2013 9:15:00 AM

breakerslion

Yeah, well Paul was a dick, too. It's no surprise you like the god he imagined.

Fucking egomaniacs.

Oh yeah. "Sovereignly?" ... "Lemon Curry?"

3/28/2013 10:20:32 AM

Ironchew

@SpukiKitty
Y'know, I have a big question for others. Have any of you guys tried to find a certain type of article & no matter what keywords or keyword combos you use, you can't find it? Why does that happen? Are the sites you're trying to find censored or blocked or do they just not exist?

I have Google. I know that Google can some times get censor-happy...

When in doubt, blame the Googluminati and call it a conspiracy.

3/28/2013 10:46:36 AM

Skyknight

@SpukiKitty: You're probably better off just looking for sites that condemn and refute Hyper-Calvinism (or just Calvinism in general).

Alternately, just do a search for "Vincent Cheung" and "sociopath". You should find at least one or two sites with a poster admitting relief of getting out of the pall of him and similar Calvinist archons.

3/28/2013 10:47:41 AM

Sasha

Vincent seems to be on a crusade to demolish faith in the Christian god.

3/28/2013 11:38:49 AM



@SpukiKitty

Try this

Google has turned to shit lately, in a fair world it would soon be going into obscurity like the AltaVista and Yahoo search engines.

3/28/2013 11:55:02 AM

John

"Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden" (Romans 9:18).

So why not conclude that humans have absolutely no say over what God does, and therefore can simply be ignored?

3/28/2013 12:22:25 PM

Old Viking

Yeah, yeah, God's a badass. We get it, we get it. Geez, find yourself a hobby.

3/28/2013 12:58:13 PM

KittyKaboom

In general Vincent Cheung is a supercilious douchebag, but this in particular bothers me:


As I mentioned, since your difficulty requires not only informing you of the right doctrines, but leading you to believe and apply them aright, my usual prescription would entail a program of extensive sessions of counseling for spiritual assessment and for radical realignment of the mind to conform to biblical teachings.

Does this sound like brain washing to anyone else? What that statement implies is really rather scary, and someone should be looking in on Cheung's ministry. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see this guy on CNN because he was going all Heaven's Gate on people.

3/28/2013 4:30:06 PM
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