There is no religious neutrality. EVERY government and set of laws reflects a religious point of view. Ours was founded on Christianity. It should reflect a Christian worldview without apology and without feeling the need to dumb it down in the name of false ideals of “diversity.” We don’t need a philosophy that agnostics, atheists and seculars can sign on to. They live in a Christian nation and if they can’t accept that, they can leave. They can believe what they want, but they don’t get to re-define America.
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If all governments embody a religion, according to you, then WHERE are atheists supposed to go, exactly?
America, in this instance, must refer to the continent rather than the US. The Founding Fathers were quite specific about what they believed their views rested upon. Clue: it wasn't Christianity.
No doubt this is an "atheism is a religion" clown.
The point of view that your laws represent, and the point of view that your laws were founded on are not the same thing, my friend. Laws represent the point of view of a country's populace at any given time. When your laws were first created they country's populace may well have had a Christian point of view as you describe it, but not any more.
Laws are constantly redefined according to the will of the populace. If the majority of Americans are becoming increasingly secular and irreligious, then yes, they have every right to, as you put it, 're-define America', every right in the world.
That's called democracy, baby, that's called freedom.
They are sort of right: The USA was founded in part on the ideals of the Christian tradition, if for no other reason than the guys who did it were raised and immersed in a Christian society. That said, it also seems pretty obvious that they were *also* influenced by Humanitarian ideals and concepts sometimes diametrically opposed to Christianity.
And all that said, it doesn't even matter one way or the other. The country should aspire to be the best possible place to be *for everyone*, and if they historically got it wrong through oversight or just a different Zeitgeist, then there is nothing - at all - wrong with changing it to better meet the ideal. The same is true of perhaps every European country - Christian history affects the present, but that doesn't and shouldn't stop us tinkering for the sake of liberty.
Yes, "nature and nature's God" sounds totally Christian, and not at all like Deism.
On a more serious note I think it's the way Americans are taught about our early history that leads to this kind of fundie revisionism. Back in elementary school it was more or less taught to us that there was a strong connection (both culturally and intellectually) from the original Pilgrims and Puritans to the Founding Fathers.
Not true of course but I can't count the number of time one of these godbots has waved a finger in my face boldly pronouncing the Pilgrims established a Christian Nation. When you point out to these people that no the Pilgrims founded an English colony and a century and a half later different people with a different worldview founded the United States the fundie will just stare at you without comprehension.
At least that's been my experience.
No, sorry. The majority of us realize that the first thing that would happen if the US ever became a Christian nation would be that the denominations would start fighting over whose interpretation was the right one. If you don't like that, then you are free to leave. I'll start a collection to buy you a one-way ticket as long as you agree to renounce your citizenship when you leave.
My planet is a small blue sphere that orbits a star called Sol, a member of a galaxy called The Milky Way in a universe that is billions of years old.
Get off my planet, christianist!!!
Pretending the government wasn't designed to be secular, with several of the founding fathers' philosophies being such, doesn't make it so. Sorry but you're the one who doesn't get to "re-define America."
"EVERY government and set of laws reflects a religious point of view. Ours was founded on Christianity.
Sure, that's why our Law Library consists of nothing more than a Bible, and we turn the other cheek when someone wrongs us instead of suing their asses off like a bunch of litigious crying babies. Or maybe we go all Old Testament on them and slice off body parts or stone them to death or kill their children.
Douche. When your clerics and their duped followers learn the difference between alleged authority and actual authority, we won't have to have these stupid discussions.
You might want to have words with the founding fathers then. They were the ones who made the first amendment stating religious neutrality and the gov't would not endorse a religion. Christian nation? Try the Treaty of Tripoli and first amendment.
"They can believe what they want, but they don’t get to re-define America."
Shiny fucking mirror
"Ours was founded on Christianity."
BZZZT! I'm sorry, that's incorrect, but thanks for playing our game. Next.
Well, GodAndCountryFirst, you can't blame us for being confused. The founders were so excited, what with creating a new country and all, that they forgot to mention in the Constitution that we are founded on Christianity.
They live in a Christian nation
No, we live in a secular nation. And you know those words "We the People" that includes everyone in America , even (horror of horrors!!!!!) the non-Christians too.
if they can’t accept that, they can leave. They can believe what they want, but they don’t get to re-define America.
So since you are the one who can't "accept that", when will you be leaving then? I'll even help you pack.
"We don’t need a philosophy that agnostics, atheists and seculars can sign on to."
Believe it or not, in other countries* there are conservative atheists.
"They can believe what they want, but they don’t get to re-define America."
America - like any other democratic country in the world - is exactly what the majority of it's citizens want it to be.
*I think Ann Coulter is more a libertarian-shrill than a conservative.
Really? Try this one on for size;
"all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land;" ~U.S. Constitution, Article VI, Clause 2
And what do we find in one of these "supreme law of the land" treaties?
"the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion," ~Treaty of Tripoli, Article 11
There you have it, the supreme law of the land says that the U.S. was not, as you say, "founded on Christianity."
Tell you what, we'll put it to the test. If God wants a America, let him turn the Washington Monument into gold, if he wants us to be atheistic let it stay as it is.
Let's both of us promise to abide by His decision.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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