Chris R16/R2730 #fundie

Chris R16/R2730 #fundie subchat.com

Atheism IS a religion, since it puts forth a doctrine as equally inflexible as any other faith. I think it is as foolish to believe there is no God than it is to believe the son of a carpenter and a Jewish teenaged girl was the son of God.

69 comments

old comment by Jezebel's Evil Sister

Nope, Project Hate is just as wrong as Chris.

The Theist-Atheist Scale discussed in The God Delusion is relevant to the real definition of "atheist." The rating system runs like this:

1.00: Strong theist. 100 percent possibility of God. In the words of C.G. Jung, 'I do not believe, I know.'

2.00: Very high probability but short of 100 per cent. De facto theist. 'I cannot know for certain, but I strongly believe in God and live my life on the assumption that he is there

3.00: Higher than 50 per cent but not very high. Technically agnostic but leaning towards theism. 'I am very uncertain, but I am inclined to believe in God.'

4.00: Exactly 50 per cent. Completely impartial agnostic. 'God's existence and non-existence are exactly equiprobable.'

5.00: Lower than 50 per cent but not very low. Technically agnostic but leaning towards atheism. 'I don't know whether God exists but I'm inclined to be sceptical.'

6.00: Very low probability, but short of zero. De facto atheist. 'I cannot know for certain but I think God is very improbable, and I live my life on the assumption that he is not there.'

7:00: Strong atheist. 'I know there is no God, with the same conviction as Jung 'knows' there is one.'

Dawkins says most atheists (himself included) (me, too!) rank 6 on this scale.

old comment by Chris R16/R2730

Don't be silly..... If it required any collecting to not collect those things, then maybe that could be considered a hobby. I expend no energy or time in not collecting the russian spacecraft. Your logic doesn't make any sense.

With atheism as well as religion, the act of believing is central to both. Both have different forms of evidence to support them, and their adherents are usually arrogant and unmovable in their views. Both atheists and religious people have made the choice to believe in something. The one in an empty universe, the other in a universe with some sort of higher intelligence.

And atheists, unlike the noncollectors of spacecraft, often come together and form social, political, and other types of groups. There are even a few atheist, yes atheist, churches, where I reside. They will gladly tell you they are practicing a religion.

old comment by Tomby Stone

Well Chris, I have to admit I see where you're coming from. I used to think this same thing (and used to consider myself agnostic) before I found out what an atheist actually is. The vast majority of atheists (this includes Dawkins ,the great atheist devil) do NOT 'believe there is no God', they lack belief that there is a God, there is a difference. Most atheists accept the possibility that there may be a God. HOWEVER, with no evidence (and there is no evidence, your 'different kind of evidence' wouldn't hold up in a basketball court) the PROBABILITY that there is a God is about the same as the probability of any other completely unsubstantiated claim. Like so ....

I AM JESUS, I HAVE RETURNED. You're a fool if you're 100 percent sure I'm lying but you're also a fool if you believe I'm telling the truth. It's best to accept the possibility that I may be Jesus but demand a little convincing before you believe I am.

P.s. I really am Jesus, honest. That enough convincing for ya ???

old comment by HeathenAngel

"Atheism IS a religion"

And NOT collecting stamps IS a hobby. Bald IS a hair color. Poverty IS a financial plan.

"..since it puts forth a doctrine.."

No doctrine. Your perception of one doesn't make it so.

"..as equally inflexible as any other faith."

Well at least you admit that your faith is inflexible.. I guess it's the first step to healing. However, Atheism.. or atheism, if you prefer (as I do) is simply the rejection of faith and dogmatic thinking. It is the embracing of reason, logic and rational thought and the using of critical thinking. Ergo, it is quite flexible. When something rational challenges a "belief" that is held by atheists, they are able to re-think and change their view. Religion is quite the opposite.. even in the face of evidence to the contrary, in all their beliefs.. they hold strong to the illogical belief that there's a sky-daddy.

"I think.."

That's a stretch.

"..it is as foolish to believe there is no God.."

Really? Is it foolish to believe there are no unicorns, leprechauns, faeries.. no Zeus, no Shiva.. no celestial teapot orbiting the Earth?

"..than it is to believe the son of a carpenter and a Jewish teenaged girl was the son of God."

And where's the proof for this silliness? No.. not a silly book of faerie-tales. Something that can be validated as real. You have none? Oh.. well.. then I guess until you do.. my "beliefs" are safe.

old comment by Chris R16/R2730

"atheism, if you prefer (as I do) is simply the rejection of faith and dogmatic thinking. It is the embracing of reason, logic and rational thought and the using of critical thinking."

Ahah, so you admit that atheism is more than the little "i believe there are no god or gods" definition.

As you imply, atheism is essentially an ideology that holds the human intellect in very high esteem. Once we have embraced atheism and begin to think "rationally", we can then begin to uncover all sorts of objective truths about the nature of the universe. As religion offers us an eternal life, atheism will give us the highest knowledge as our prize. And we can rightfully assume a superiorist mentality and look down on those who haven't come to atheism as complete and utter fools.

Thanks for being honest and expanding on what atheism really consists of. As an agnostic in all things, I really can't understand how people can have such strong beliefs. Especially regarding things as complex as the question of whether higher intelligence exists.

old comment by HeathenAngel

I admit that atheism is not believing in silly superstition and myth and that it is based on there being absolutely no proofs or evidences to support said myths and superstitions. Do you grasp that? *she asked already knowing the answer would be "no"*

Reason and logic win out over conjecture. Evidence and proof can take down blind faith and supposition. I used to be a faith-head... and then I reached the age of reason. Eventually "my" sky-daddy, and my belief in such silliness went the way of my belief in Santa and Peter Cottontail.

Conversely, I was once a "skeptic" too... a fence-sitter. I figured it would be best to keep an "open mind". Then I realized that the atheistic position was an open-minded position... I have no need to "hedge my bets" just in case. Science has proven all religions wrong. It doesn't have to prove the nonexistence of a deity.. just like you shouldn't and don't have to prove that I DON'T have a heatless-fire-breathing, incorporeal, invisible, floating, non-stick dragon living in my garage. The onus is on the one making the outrageous claim that said dragon... or invisible, sky-dwelling superman (men/women/spirits/animals) exist. Can religion, any of them do that? Can you? Then until it is proven... or until some kind of evidence can suggest that a deity of any kind exists, it would be illogical and irrational to believe that one does. And it would be, and is criminal to go around invading countries based on a perceived superiority based in that superstition.

You have already shown us your inability to grasp simple concepts such as definitions of words. You decide to twist them into something more simplistic and fitting to your preconceived ideas. Either because you attempt to raise intentional obtuseness to a zen-like status... or because you are actually that dense. Either way, it doesn't really matter to me. Your refusal or inability to grasp something as simple as the definition is not going to change the actual meaning of the word.

old comment by agentCDE

@Church of Reality

But there's already a religion that is like your's - it's called Atheism. How are you different than Atheists?
Atheism is not a religion. It merely states that one does not believe in God. Realism is much deeper than that. Realists actively pursue reality the way it really is. We have our Sacred Choices and our Sacred Principles to guide our lives. If God does exist and he comes out of hiding into objective reality where everyone can see him - then we all become Theists.

Whoops. I guess they have tax exempt status, too, because they're an actual religion, unlike, say, atheism. Unless I've been filing my taxes wrong the whole time.

old comment by NonProphet

Chris R16/R2730: "Err, you failed to see that behind the silly outward facade that the church is a serious organization and also tax exempt. They wouldn't give 501c status to an organization that was just a mockery of organized religion."

Of course, they are filed as a charity organization, not a church. According to their own site, they don't feel they quite meet the requirements to be a legally-recognized church.
And nonprofit status means nothing. FSTDT can get nonprofit status by donating to local homeless shelters once a month and filling out the right forms. Doesn't make us a church, does it?

Oh, and that's a web-based organization with no actual 'church' building. So your claim that there are several atheist churches in your town is still suspect. What would atheists go to church for, anyway? To not-pray to a god they don't believe in? To hold non-baptisms? Would they all just sit in the pews and blatantly refuse to worship anything?
Seriously, lying for Jesus is not your best skill, Chris.

old comment by Dyz

Atheism is not about believing something like a religion is about believing.

Atheism is about NOT believing stuff that theists say. Do not try to argue that NOT believing is also believing for that would make NOT eating the same as eating.

There is a big difference between "believing there is no god" and "not believing there is a god". The latter is the basic atheist point of view while the first can be seen as a "religous" stance (No scientific evidence to support it).

Further more it is never possible to consiously choose a belief. There is always an external factor that convinces someone to believe something. I would find someone who chooses to be religous OR atheistic rather weak minded. I myself have made up my mind on the subject (untill someone convinces me that I am wrong) and found the term "Atheist" to describe my point of view best.

I would like to meet the atheists that say atheism is a religion.

Excuse my english, it's not my native language.

Chris R16/R2730 #fundie subchat.com

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