Catholics are not Christians. Catholics teach a false gospel of works that leads to eternal hell.
The first Christians were all Jews that believed fundamentalist doctrine. Catholics didn't exist for 300 years after that.
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Has anyone tried Pascal's Wager with these people?
I mean, if you live believing in salvation by faith and works, and that's what is required, then you get salvation. And if faith is all that is required, well you still get salvation.
On the other hand, if you're an evil bastard that believes you can do anything as long as you believe in the Holy Zombie, and you are actually judged on your actions, then you're bound for hell.
Though this makes me wonder... why not leave homosexuals alone? What they do is unimportant, so long as they have faith, right?
Bah. It is too much to expect consistency from worshippers of an inconsistent book.
Praise to Ilúvatar!
The "Christian" church did not exist until the Roman Catholic church was formed.
Uh, no. Modern fundamentalism dates to the publication of the original Scofield Bible in the late 19th century, and Dominionism derives (surprise, surprise) from the Catholic feudal theocracies it wishes to return to.
The original, pre-Pauline Christians could best be described as commune-living hippies.
The first followers of Jesus were Jews who still considered themselves to be Jews. It wasn't until the various Jewish uprisings were violently put down that Paul's gentile converts came to dominate and were allowed to define "Christianity."
If you want to follow the practices of the first Christians, you need to convert to Judaism first then believe that Jesus was the prophet sent to warn Jews to prepare for the Kingdom of God.
If you follow any other religion, your beliefs came out of Catholicism.
Tell me again how Christians are a majority in America.
Also, read the parable of the sheep and the goats and the Epistle of James and get back to us on this "false gospel of works" thing.
Same old argument. If they preach the Gospel, sorry, THEY ARE CHRISTIAN. And by the way, Catholics, my friend, exist since the first century AD, because they were the ONLY Christians on earth(compared to other fundamentalist, that exist only for 500 years, in the best case)
@Fanatic-Templar
I've often wondered all that myself. I mean, the "Praise Jesus!" thing sounds a lot like a get out of jail free card. Either God cannot be near sin, or that's false. If a homosexual believes in Jesus, he's going to heaven, by their standards, or Jesus isn't here to save us all. They seem to jump back and forth on this.
Agh...pre-coffee philosophy...
Catholics don't teach a gospel of works. At the Council of Trent they proclaimed,
If any one saith, that man may be justified before God by his own works, whether done through the teaching of human nature, or that of the law, without the grace of God through Jesus Christ; let him be anathema.
Catholics teach the same thing as other Christian faiths: salvation is given solely by the grace of God. The only difference is that Catholics explicitly state that one may lose salvation by failure to perform good works, while most Protestants fudge the definition of faith to include good works (i.e., if you don't do good works, you don't really have faith).
Some fundies claim "once saved, always saved", which is contrary to scripture (James 2: “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only”).
Chris should try reading the actual Bible instead of relying on Jack Chick comic books to explain it to him.
I've been over this bullshit already. Catholics are Christians, and were around a lot longer than Protestants. Your church is just a descendent of the Catholic Church.
And 'false Gospel' hey? Yeah, God forbid anyone believing you actually have to prove your faith using works too. That's so terrible.
Although, it is true that a lot of early Christians were Jewish converts. But certainly not all of them were, by any means.
The original, pre-Pauline Christians could best be described as commune-living hippies.
Pre-Pauline Christianity could best be described as essentially unknown. There simply are no pre-Pauline sources.
Dear troll type person:
Christians ARE the majority in America, a very powerful one, and add Central and South America into the mix and Christians totally dominate the western hemisphere.
And about 1 billion of those Christians are Catholics. To Fundies, Catholics only count as Christian when they're claiming persecution, or want to show that Christians are the majority. By the way, I'm converting to Catholicism, and I can safely say that Catholics are indeed Christians.
Although granted, Christianity *is* the largest religion in the world. But, it's possible a lot of these said Christians are simply labelling themselves as such beause they were raised in a Christian home, but don't really pay much attention to it, or even believe much (if any) of it.
Catholics don't count as Christians, until it comes time for some nimrod to claim a Christian majority in America. Then they undergo this miraculous transformation to become your brothers and sisters.
Okay. Now be a nice troll and go back under your bridge.
Damn it, Chris, this is still confusing. The Catholics say that Catholicism is the only sure path to salvation, and that you guys are merely a "community of believers," not a true church. And the Muslims think you're all full of heretical doo-doo.
Hey, troll:
Oh, and I love how you put in the subtle "Christians care about other people, as long as they're Christians too" bit. Looks like you've never read Jesus' teachings about loving others, even unbelievers. Good Samaritan, Sermon on the Mount - never heard of 'em, O Pharisee?
"One of the many burdens of the person professing Christianity has always been the odium likely to be heaped upon him by fellow Christians quick to smell out, denounce and punish fraud, hypocrisy and general unworthiness among those who assert the faith. In ruder days, disputes about what constituted a fully qualified Christian often led to sordid quarrels in which the disputants tortured, burned and hanged each other in the conviction that torture, burning and hanging were Christian things to do...."
Stogoe: Oops, I meant to say *one* of the largest. *Toddles off to Wiki* (I'm aware Wiki isn't the best source, but it's the quickest. :P) According Wiki's religion page, there's around 2.1 billion Christians in the world, and Roman Catholicism seems to be the largest major denomination , claiming about 1,120 million members (this includes Western and Eastern Catholic Rites).
Sophie:
As an ex-Catholic, I want to tell you that converting to Catholicism is only a worthwhile thing to do if you enjoy banging your head against the wall because of some moronic intolerance handed down from the Vatican. (You can take advantage of the intellectual heritage without converting by going to a nice Jesuit college like BC or Georgetown...)
So by this guys logic. Catholics aren't Christian because their church wasn't formalised for 300 odd years after Christ. Although Ignatius of Antioch might disagree on the dates, what with him first citing the name Catholic Church in 107AD. But anyway the Protestant reformation didn't happen until 1529 (ish). So surely then, they are even less 'christian' than the Catholics.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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