Various commenters #wingnut

Various commenters #wingnut reddit.com

(throwaway009335)
And this right here is exactly why we are pro LIFE and they are pro CHOICE.

They value freedom of choice over life, we value life over freedom of choice.

(HairLessChick)
Well they do have a choice they just can't rope anyone else into it such as doctors that's the one thing they don't seem to understand the people who want abortions are not going to go to jail it's the doctors and I remember seeing someone in the comments of this post saying that there's going to be more dumpster babies and that just means those people are going to jail for killing and disposing of their offspring because of their choices they just don't want any consequences that's why they keep trying to change the language so they don't seem like they're monstrous nobody wants to be a monster but murders murder

(biccat)
This is your basic "balance of interests" tests that pop up all over the place in the legal profession. You balance the harm one party will suffer if you don't do X, versus the balance the other party will suffer if you do X.

The woman:

Pregnancy is voluntary (in most cases)

Risk of injury is small (but not zero)

Minor risk (in most cases)

Deprivation of rights is temporary

The child:

No choice in the decision

Risk of injury is guaranteed

Serious risk (death)

Deprivation of rights is permanent

I cannot see how you can justify abortion in all but the most extreme cases. Involuntary pregnancy (rape) only changes the result of one of those factors.

(LostBob)
If you begin by defining the soon-to-be-aborted as a child, it’s hard to see the pro-choice position, since generally anyway, the pro-choice position does not consider the early stages of human life to be a child.

I’m not saying I agree. The life begins at conception position has the advantage of a clear demarcation, while the life begins at some arbitrary point in development is rather subjective.

The laws need to be clear and have exceptions for rape, unviable children, and health of the mother though, which some of these hastily passed laws do not have.

(soloespero)
Why does there need to be an exception for rape?

4 comments

Bonus comments:

(crazyDocEmmettBrown)
I’ve mentioned that I’m a medical student who won’t perform, participate, or refer patients for non-medically indicated abortions because I view it as a direct violation of my ethical duty to non-maleficence, and the amount of vitriol i receive was pretty funny to me.
I had one person tell me that I need a refund on my degree because “don’t even have a lay person’s grasps of the science”. (Literally what they told me).
I couldn’t stop laughing because I literally went it medical school to explicitly not have a lay person’s grasp of the science.
Had other people tell me I can practice based on my ethics, but can’t force my ethics onto others; I laughed because they wanted to have it both ways.
Had people tell me I’m a shitty physician because I don’t respect the right of body autonomy. My response to that was: from my perspective as a healthcare provider, the right of bodily autonomy is the right of the patient to deny any procedure/treatment from being performed upon them (and the right to informed consent); it is not the right to demand that I perform any procedure/treatment upon them, especially ones I believe are unethical.
Had people tell me I’m trying to control women’s bodies and that I think of them as subhuman. I laughed because I’m not preventing them from getting a second opinion and I treat every patient to the best of my ability.
Had another person tell me it was wrong to practice based on ethics and that I have a duty to uphold access to abortion regardless of my views on it. I told them I know the law, and that I’m perfectly within my right to refuse to participate in abortion; I’m not obligated to uphold your worldview regarding abortion.
I had another person try and “get me” by asking if I also support forced blood donation. I said obviously not, because that’s a violation of bodily autonomy; which isn’t even close to comparable to refusing to participate in abortions.
Ive heard so many other ridiculous responses that I could go on and on.
I swear, some of these people are so tribalistic and angry that they can’t even reason that someone has a different opinion than them.
The amount of people with a high school/undergraduate level understanding of science telling me I need to get my money back for my degrees is frankly hilarious.

“The woman: Pregnancy is voluntary (in most cases)”

Wait, what? You think most cases of abortion, the pregnancy was voluntary? Then why are they getting an abortion?
YOU MEAN that the sex was voluntary, and if the steps they take fail (condom broke, pill failed, he lied about the vasectomy, the vasectomy grew back, etc.), they’re stuck with the undesired consequence because fuck the slut.

They value freedom of choice over life, we value life over freedom of choice.

Well, yes. It’s why I also think that the right of suicide or euthanasia are also as important as the right to abortion. Why should anyone be forced to live a life they didn’t choose for? If people cannot choose their life, at least let them choose their death.

If this was supposed to be some sort of insult towards me, then it failed miserably.

Also, if you truly valued life you wouldn’t be pro-abortion, assholes. A parasitic fetus does NOT have more rights to live than a fully grown human with a full life that might be endangered by said parasite.

Old hypocritical argument. If you were right, you wouldn't fight social programs to improve the lives of the living and you should abolish the death penalty. You would also attempt to improve the situation of future generations including protecting the environment and preventing weapons proliferation. You would care about all lives, not only that of the white or of Christians. Then you fail to acknowledge basic facts about embryos and women. Throwaway-nick troll.