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Eric hyde's Blog #conspiracy ehyde.wordpress.com

I write very little in the area of Christian vs. atheist apologetics anymore, and for good reason.

It was in atheist chat-rooms and blogs that I first cut my teeth in theology many years ago. Since those days I have not heard anything new from atheists.

It seems that many atheists today (some like to use the title ‘New Atheists’ to distinguish them from the more profound philosophical atheists of yesteryear) have very little to add to the discussion. To be fair, the same goes with most Christian apologists.

However, I thought it would be fun to comment on the ten arguments I hear the most. My hope is that it will help expose some of the more obvious problems with them and maybe help both sides—atheists and Christians alike—to move on to more interesting debate material.

One additional note: another reason I do not enter into the atheist-Christian debate world much anymore is because of the sheer discourtesy that both sides tend to show the other. I will not delete any comments, no matter how uncivil or juvenile they become, because, for me, it is an important part of the article. The responses (if there are any) will demonstrate the current state of atheist vs. Christian banter. Also, I will not respond to rude posts. This is advanced warning so please don’t think me rude as well if I ignore them.

Okay, here we go:

1. There is no evidence for God’s existence.

There are a couple of problems with this line. Starting with the idea of ‘evidence,’ what exactly does one mean by evidence? What is sufficient evidence for one person is often not sufficient evidence for another. A court of law provides innumerable examples of how two parties can possess the same collection of data, the same power of logic and reasoning, yet argue for completely different interpretations of the data. The old saying is true: the facts do not determine the argument, the argument determines the facts.

When confronted with the charge that there is no evidence for God the Christian often does not know where to start with a rebuttal. It’s as G.K. Chesterton once said, asking a Christian to prove God’s existence is like asking someone to prove the existence of civilization. What is one to do but point and say, “look, there’s a chair, and there’s a building,” etc. How can one prove civilization by merely selecting a piece here and a piece there as sufficient proofs rather than having an experience of civilization as a whole?

Nearly everything the Christian lays eyes on is evidence of God’s existence because he sees the ‘handiwork’ of God all around him in creation. But this is hardly sufficient evidence in the court of atheist opinion, a court which presupposes that only what can be apprehended by the senses rightly qualifies as evidence (in other words, the atheist demands not evidence of God’s handiwork, but rather material evidence of God Himself). For the Christian who believes in a transcendent God, he can offer no such evidence; to produce material evidence of God is, ironically, to disprove a transcendent God and cast out faith. If one desires God to appear in the flesh, well… He already did. But even if one lived at the time and could touch Christ in the flesh, this would still not “prove” God’s existence in the scientific sense (science has no such categories).

The second part of the line is equally short-sighted. What does one mean by ‘existence’? If one means, ‘that which has come into existence,’ then surely God does not exist because God never came into existence. He always was; He is eternal. This was a famous assessment of the matter by Soren Kierkegaard (dealing with Hegel’s dialectic of existence). The argument is a bit involved, so for times sakes I’ll just have to state it and leave it there.

2. If God created the universe, who created God?

This is one of the more peculiar arguments I’ve ever come across. Those who use this charge as some sort of intellectual checkmate have simply failed to grasp what Christians understand as ‘eternal.’ It is an argument usually levied once a theist posits that God is required for the existence of the universe (a necessary Being upon which all other things exist by way of contingency). Some atheists then shift the weight over to the theist saying, “Well then who created God?” (which demonstrates a failure to understand God as the source and ground of being rather than God as simply one more being among other beings in existence, follow this link for more.) What is a Christian to do but smile at such a question? God is the antecedent of all things in creation and is eternal. If God had a Creator then His Creator would be God. God is God precisely because He does not have a creator.

3. God is not all-powerful if there is something He cannot do. God cannot lie, therefore God is not all-powerful.

Bang! Owned.

Not so fast. This argument would be fantastic—devastating maybe—if God was more of the ancient Greek god persuasion, where the gods themselves were subject to fate and limited to their specific roles in the cosmos. The Orthodox doctrine of God is much different. Christians (at least Orthodox Christians) view God’s ontology as subject to His perfect free-will. Why is He good? Because He wills to be good. Why does He not lie? Because He wills to be honest. Why does God exist as Trinity? Because He wills it. He could just as easily will to not exist. And yes, He could just as easily will to lie. The fact that He doesn’t is no commentary on whether He could.

(Note: Due to the immense amount of discussion that this point has raised, one clarifying statement is worth noting. An argument based on strict logical word games can render the idea ‘all-powerful,’ or ‘omnipotent’ self-defeating. When one considers the juvenile question, “Can God create a rock so big that He can’t lift it?” this point becomes clear. But in reality, such an argument winds up further solidifying what Christianity means by an all-powerful God. For the Christian it simply means that all power and authority are God’s. Following the logical word game above forces the believer to make a redundant proclamation in order to remain consistent: “God cannot overpower Himself.” But this fact is anything but confounding, it merely stresses the point that there is no power greater than God, so much so that one is forced to pit God against Himself in order to find His equal.)

4. Believing in God is the same as believing in the Tooth Fairy, Santa Clause, and the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

What I love about this well-worn atheist ‘argument’ is that it actually serves to demonstrate how vastly different a belief in God is to these myths and imaginations. When one honestly assesses the Judeo-Christian doctrine of God he will find multiple thousands of years of human testimony and religious development; he will find martyrs enduring the most horrific trauma in defense of the faith; he will find accounts in religious texts with historical and geographical corroboration; etc (these fact are of course not ‘proofs,’ but rather ‘evidences’ that elicit strong consideration). Pit this against tales of the Tooth Fairy, Santa, and Spaghetti Monsters and one finds the exact opposite: no testimony or religious refinement, no martyrs, no historical and geographical corroboration, etc. Instead, one finds myths created intentionally for children, for point making, or for whatever. It’s strawman argumentation at its worst.

5. Christianity arose from an ancient and ignorant people who didn’t have science.

Indeed, those ancient, ignorant people who believed in the virgin birth of Christ must have believed it because they did not possess the knowledge of how babies were born. Goodness. The virgin birth of Christ was profound and of paramount concern to the ancients precisely because they understood that conception was impossible without intercourse. Ancient man considered the virgin birth miraculous, i.e., impossible without divine action (and at the time most people scorned the idea), and the same could be said with every miraculous story in Scripture.

Indeed ancient people did not have the Hubble telescope, but they were able to see the night sky in full array, something almost no modern person can claim (thanks to modern lighting which distorts our ability to see the full night sky). On average, ancient people lived much closer to nature and to the realities of life and death than many of us moderners.

In terms of a living relationship with these things the ancients were far more advanced than we are today, and this relationship is essentially the nature of religious inquiry. If people lack religious speculation today, maybe it is because they spend more time with their iphones and Macs then with nature. Maybe.

But the claim that Christianity was viable in the ancient world because it was endorsed by wide spread ignorance is a profoundly ignorant idea. Christianity arose in one of the most highly advanced civilizations in human history. The Roman Empire was not known for its stupidity. It was the epicenter of innovation and philosophical giants. I would wager that if a common person of today found himself in a philosophical debate with a common person of first century Alexandria, the moderner would be utterly humiliated in the exchange.

6. Christian’s only believe in Christianity because they were born in a Christian culture. If they’d been born in India they would have been Hindu instead.

This argument is appealing because it pretends to wholly dismiss people’s reasoning capabilities based on their environmental influences in childhood. The idea is that people in general are so intellectually near-sighted that they can’t see past their own upbringing, which, it would follow, would be an equally condemning commentary on atheism (if one was consistent with the charge), but the idea is fairly easy to counter.

Take the history of the Jewish people for example. Let us say that to ‘be’ Jewish, in the religious sense, is much more than a matter of cultural adherence. To be a Jewish believer is to have Judaism permeate one’s thinking and believing and interaction with the world. But is this the state of affairs with the majority of the Jewish people, whether in America, Europe, Israel, or wherever? One would have to be seriously out of touch to believe so. The same phenomenon is found within so-called Christian communities, that is: many sport a Christian title, but are wholly derelict in personal faith. “Believing” in Christianity is a far more serious endeavor then merely wearing a church name tag. Indeed, being born in a Jewish or Christian centric home today is more often a precursor that the child will grow up to abandon the faith of his or her family, or at least be associated with the faith by affiliation only.

7. The gospel doesn’t make sense: God was mad at mankind because of sin so he decided to torture and kill his own Son so that he could appease his own pathological anger. God is the weirdo, not me.

This is actually a really good argument against certain Protestant sects (I’ve used it myself on numerous occasions), but it has no traction with the Orthodox Christian faith. The Orthodox have no concept of a God who needed appeasement in order to love His creation. The Father sacrificed His own Son in order to destroy death with His life; not to assuage His wrath, but to heal; not to protect mankind from His fury, but to unite mankind to His love. If the reader is interested to hear more on this topic follow this link for a fuller discussion.

8. History is full of mother-child messiah cults, trinity godheads, and the like. Thus the Christian story is a myth like the rest.

This argument seems insurmountable on the surface, but is really a slow-pitch across the plate (if you don’t mind a baseball analogy). There is no arguing the fact that history is full of similar stories found in the Bible, and I won’t take the time to recount them here. But this fact should not be surprising in the least, indeed if history had no similar stories it would be reason for concern. Anything beautiful always has replicas. A counterfeit coin does not prove the non-existence of the authentic coin, it proves the exact opposite. A thousand U2 cover bands is not evidence that U2 is a myth.

Ah, but that doesn’t address the fact that some of these stories were told before the Biblical accounts. True. But imagine if the only story of a messianic virgin birth, death, and resurrection were contained in the New Testament. That, to me, would be odd. It would be odd because if all people everywhere had God as their Creator, yet the central event of human history—the game changing event of all the ages—the incarnation, death, and resurrection of Christ had never occurred to them, in at least some hazy form, they would have been completely cut off from the prime mysteries of human existence. It seems only natural that if the advent of Christ was real it would permeate through the consciousness of mankind on some level regardless of their place in history. One should expect to find mankind replicating these stories, found in their own visions and dreams, again and again throughout history. And indeed, that is what we find.

9. The God of the Bible is evil. A God who allows so much suffering and death can be nothing but evil.

This criticism is voice in many different ways. For me, this is one of the most legitimate arguments against the existence of a good God. The fact that there is suffering and death is the strongest argument against the belief in an all-powerful, all-knowing, all-loving God. If suffering and death exist it seems to suggest one of two things: (1) either God is love, but He is not all-powerful and cannot stop suffering and death, or (2) God is all-powerful, but He does not care for us.

I devoted a separate article addressing this problem, but let me deal here with the problem inherent in the criticism itself. The argument takes as its presupposition that good and evil are real; that there is an ultimate standard of good and evil that supersedes mere fanciful ‘ideas’ about what is good and evil at a given time in our ethical evolution, as it were. If there is not a real existence—an ontological reality—of good and evil, then the charge that God is evil because of this or that is really to say nothing more than, “I personally don’t like what I see in the world and therefore a good God cannot exist.” I like what C.S. Lewis said on a similar matter: “There is no sense in talking of ‘becoming better’ if better means simply ‘what we are becoming’—it is like congratulating yourself on reaching your destination and defining destination as ‘the place you have reached.’”

What is tricky for the atheist in these sorts of debates is to steer clear of words loaded with religious overtones. It’s weird for someone who does not believe in ultimate good and evil to condemn God as evil because He did not achieve their personal vision of good. So, the initial criticism is sound, but it is subversive to the atheist’s staging ground. If one is going to accept good and evil as realities, he is not in a position to fully reject God. Instead, he is more in a position to wrestle with the idea that God is good. This struggle is applauded in the Orthodox Church. After all, the very word God used for his people in the Old Testament—“Israel”—means to struggle with God.

10. Evolution has answered the question of where we came from. There is no need for ignorant ancient myths anymore.

This might be the most popular attempted smack-downs of religion in general today. It is found in many variations but the concept is fairly consistent and goes something like this: Science has brought us to a point where we no longer need mythology to understand the world, and any questions which remain will eventually be answered through future scientific breakthroughs. The main battle-ground where this criticism is seen today is in evolution vs. creationism debates.

Let me say upfront that there is perhaps no other subject that bores me more than evolution vs. creationism debates. I would rather watch paint dry. And when I’m not falling asleep through such debates I’m frustrated because usually both sides of the debate use large amounts of dishonesty in order to gain points rather than to gain the truth. The evolutionist has no commentary whatsoever on the existence of God, and the creationist usually suffers from profound confusion in their understanding of the first few chapters of Genesis.

So, without entering into the most pathetic debate of the ages, bereft of all intellectual profundity, I’ll only comment on the underlining idea that science has put Christianity out of the answer business. Science is fantastic if you want to know what gauge wire is compatible with a 20 amp electric charge, how agriculture works, what causes disease and how to cure it, and a million other things. But where the physical sciences are completely lacking is in those issues most important to human beings—the truly existential issues: what does it mean to be human, why are we here, what is valuable, what does it mean to love, to hate, what am I to do with guilt, grief, sorrow, what does it mean to succeed, is there any meaning and what does ‘meaning’ mean, and, of course, is there a God? etc, ad infinitum.

As far as where we come from, evolution has barely scratched the purely scientific surface of the matter. Even if the whole project of evolution as an account of our history was without serious objection, it would still not answer the problem of the origin of life, since the option of natural selection as an explanation is not available when considering how dead or inorganic matter becomes organic. Even more complicated is the matter of where matter came from. The ‘Big Bang’ is not an answer to origins but rather a description of the event by which everything came into being; i.e., it’s the description of a smoking gun, not the shooter.

That’s it… my top 10 list. Thanks for reading. Cheers.

Sierra Wright #fundie quora.com

WE ARE NOT WRONG. ALLAHS HEAD IS FILLED WITH HATE, AND ENVY, THE DEVIL HAS GRASPED ONTO HIS HEART.

It should be noted that all the facts used by the Christian in the above hypothetical conversation are true. Yes, God is the first cause, the designer of life, the resurrected Christ, the Author of Scripture, and the Savior of Christians. Yet the way these facts are used is not decisive. That is, none of the above arguments really prove that God exists.

Some of the above arguments are very weak: appeals to personal experience, vicious circular reasoning, and appeals to a first cause. While the facts are true, the arguments do not come close to proving the existence of the biblical God. Some of the arguments seem stronger; I happen to think that irreducible complexity and information in DNA are strong confirmations of biblical creation. And predictive prophecy does confirm the inspiration of Scripture. Nonetheless, for each one of these arguments, the atheist was able to invent a “rescuing device.” He was able to propose an explanation for this evidence that is compatible with his belief that God does not exist.

Moreover, most of the atheist’s explanations are actually pretty reasonable, given his view of the world. He’s not being illogical. He is being consistent with his position. Christians and atheists have different worldviews—different philosophies of life. And we must learn to argue on the level of worldviews if we are to argue in a cogent and effective fashion.

The Christian in the above hypothetical conversation did not have a correct approach to apologetics. He was arguing on the basis of specific evidences with someone who had a totally different professed worldview than his own. This approach is never conclusive, because the critic can always invoke a rescuing device to protect his worldview.1 Thus, if we are to be effective, we must use an argument that deals with worldviews, and not simply isolated facts. The best argument for the existence of God will be a “big-picture” kind of argument.

God Doesn’t Believe in Atheists

THE BIBLE TEACHES THAT ATHEISTS ARE NOT REALLY ATHEISTS.

The Bible teaches that atheists are not really atheists. That is, those who profess to be atheists do ultimately believe in God in their heart-of-hearts. The Bible teaches that everyone knows God, because God has revealed Himself to all (Romans 1:19). In fact, the Bible tells us that God’s existence is so obvious that anyone who suppresses this truth is “without excuse” (Romans 1:20). The atheist denies with his lips what he knows in his heart. But if they know God, then why do atheists claim that they do not believe in God?

The answer may be found in Romans 1:18. God is angry at unbelievers for their wickedness. And an all-powerful, all-knowing God who is angry at you is a terrifying prospect. So even though many atheists might claim that they are neutral, objective observers, and that their disbelief in God is purely rational, in reality, they are strongly motivated to reject the biblical God who is rightly angry with them. So they suppress that truth in unrighteousness. They convince themselves that they do not believe in God.2 The atheist is intellectually schizophrenic—believing in God, but believing that he does not believe in God.3

Therefore, we do not really need to give the atheist any more specific evidences for God’s existence. He already knows in his heart-of-hearts that God exists, but he doesn’t want to believe it. Our goal is to expose the atheist’s suppressed knowledge of God.4 With gentleness and respect, we can show the atheist that he already knows about God, but is suppressing what he knows to be true.

Exposing the Inconsistency

BECAUSE AN ATHEIST DOES BELIEVE IN GOD, BUT DOES NOT BELIEVE THAT HE BELIEVES IN GOD, HE IS SIMPLY A WALKING BUNDLE OF INCONSISTENCIES.

Because an atheist does believe in God, but does not believe that he believes in God, he is simply a walking bundle of inconsistencies. One type to watch for is a behavioral inconsistency; this is where a person’s behavior does not comport with what he claims to believe. For example, consider the atheist university professor who teaches that human beings are simply chemical accidents—the end result of a long and purposeless chain of biological evolution. But then he goes home and kisses his wife and hugs his children, as if they were not simply chemical accidents, but valuable, irreplaceable persons deserving of respect and worthy of love.

Consider the atheist who is outraged at seeing a violent murder on the ten o’clock news. He is very upset and hopes that the murderer will be punished for his wicked actions. But in his view of the world, why should he be angry? In an atheistic, evolutionary universe where people are just animals, murder is no different than a lion killing an antelope. But we don’t punish the lion! If people are just chemical accidents, then why punish one for killing another? We wouldn’t get upset at baking soda for reacting with vinegar; that’s just what chemicals do. The concepts that human beings are valuable, are not simply animals, are not simply chemicals, have genuine freedom to make choices, are responsible for their actions, and are bound by a universal objective moral code all stem from a Christian worldview. Such things simply do not make sense in an atheistic view of life.

Many atheists behave morally and expect others to behave morally as well. But absolute morality simply does not comport with atheism. Why should there be an absolute, objective standard of behavior that all people should obey if the universe and the people within it are simply accidents of nature? Of course, people can assert that there is a moral code. But who is to say what that moral code should be? Some people think it is okay to be racist; others think it is okay to kill babies, and others think we should kill people of other religions or ethnicities, etc. Who is to say which position should be followed? Any standard of our own creation would necessarily be subjective and arbitrary.

Now, some atheists might respond, “That’s right! Morality is subjective. We each have the right to create our own moral code. And therefore, you cannot impose your personal morality on other people!” But of course, this statement is self-refuting, because when they say, “you cannot impose your personal morality on other people” they are imposing their personal moral code on other people. When push comes to shove, no one really believes that morality is merely a subjective, personal choice.

Logical Inconsistency

Another inconsistency occurs when atheists attempt to be rational. Rationality involves the use of laws of logic. Laws of logic prescribe the correct chain of reasoning between truth claims. For example, consider the argument: “If it is snowing outside, then it must be cold out. It is snowing. Therefore, it is cold out.” This argument is correct because it uses a law of logic called modus ponens. Laws of logic, like modus ponens, are immaterial, universal, invariant, abstract entities. They are immaterial because you can’t touch them or stub your toe on one. They are universal and invariant because they apply in all places and at all times (modus ponens works just as well in Africa as it does in the United States, and just as well on Friday as it does on Monday). And they are abstract because they deal with concepts.

LAWS OF LOGIC STEM FROM GOD’S SOVEREIGN NATURE; THEY ARE A REFLECTION OF THE WAY HE THINKS.

Laws of logic stem from God’s sovereign nature; they are a reflection of the way He thinks. They are immaterial, universal, invariant, abstract entities, because God is an immaterial (Spirit), omnipresent, unchanging God who has all knowledge (Colossians 2:3). Thus, all true statements will be governed by God’s thinking—they will be logical. The law of non-contradiction, for example, stems from the fact that God does not deny Himself (2 Timothy 2:13). The Christian can account for laws of logic; they are the correct standard for reasoning because God is sovereign over all truth. We can know some of God’s thoughts because God has revealed Himself to us through the words of Scripture and the person of Jesus Christ.

However, the atheist cannot account for laws of logic. He cannot make sense of them within his own worldview. How could there be immaterial, universal, invariant, abstract laws in a chance universe formed by a big bang? Why should there be an absolute standard of reasoning if everything is simply “molecules in motion”? Most atheists have a materialistic outlook—meaning they believe that everything that exists is material, or explained by material processes. But laws of logic are not material! You cannot pull a law of logic out of the refrigerator! If atheistic materialism is true, then there could be no laws of logic, since they are immaterial. Thus, logical reasoning would be impossible!

Laws of Logic

No one is denying that atheists are able to reason and use laws of logic. The point is that if atheism were true, the atheist would not be able to reason or use laws of logic because such things would not be meaningful. The fact that the atheist is able to reason demonstrates that he is wrong. By using that which makes no sense given his worldview, the atheist is being horribly inconsistent. He is using God’s laws of logic, while denying the biblical God that makes such laws possible.

How could there be laws at all without a lawgiver? The atheist cannot account for (1) the existence of laws of logic, (2) why they are immaterial, (3) why they are universal, (4) why they do not change with time, and (5) how human beings can possibly know about them or their properties. But of course, all these things make perfect sense on the Christian system. Laws of logic owe their existence to the biblical God. Yet they are required to reason rationally, to prove things. So the biblical God must exist in order for reasoning to be possible. Therefore, the best proof of God’s existence is that without Him we couldn’t prove anything at all! The existence of the biblical God is the prerequisite for knowledge and rationality. This is called the “transcendental argument for God” or TAG for short. It is a devastating and conclusive argument, one that only a few people have even attempted to refute (and none of them successfully).5

Proof Versus Persuasion

Transcendental Argument

Though the transcendental argument for God is deductively sound, not all atheists will be convinced upon hearing it. It may take time for them to even understand the argument in the first place. As I write this chapter, I am in the midst of an electronic exchange with an atheist who has not yet fully grasped the argument. Real-life discussions on this issue take time. But even if the atheist fully understands the argument, he may not be convinced. We must remember that there is a difference between proof and persuasion. Proof is objective, but persuasion is subjective. The transcendental argument does indeed objectively prove that God exists. However, that does not mean that the atheists will necessarily cry “uncle.” Atheists are strongly motivated to not believe in the biblical God—a God who is rightly angry at them for their treason against Him.

THE ATHEIST’S DENIAL OF GOD IS AN EMOTIONAL REACTION, NOT A LOGICAL ONE.

But the atheist’s denial of God is an emotional reaction, not a logical one. We might imagine a disobedient child who is about to be punished by his father. He might cover his eyes with his hands and say of his father, “You don’t exist!” but that would hardly be rational. Atheists deny (with their lips) the biblical God, not for logical reasons, but for psychological reasons. We must also keep in mind that the unbeliever’s problem is not simply an emotional issue, but a deep spiritual problem (1 Corinthians 2:14). It is the Holy Spirit that must give him the ability to repent (1 Corinthians 12:3; 2 Timothy 2:25).

So we must keep in mind that it is not our job to convert people—nor can we. Our job is to give a defense of the faith in a way that is faithful to the Scriptures (1 Peter 3:15). It is the Holy Spirit that brings conversion. But God can use our arguments as part of the process by which He draws people to Himself.

Got Questions Ministries #fundie gotquestions.org

Question: "Is there an argument for the existence of God?"

Answer: The question of whether there is a conclusive argument for the existence of God has been debated throughout history, with exceedingly intelligent people taking both sides of the dispute. In recent times, arguments against the possibility of God’s existence have taken on a militant spirit that accuses anyone daring to believe in God as being delusional and irrational. Karl Marx asserted that anyone believing in God must have a mental disorder that caused invalid thinking. The psychiatrist Sigmund Freud wrote that a person who believed in a Creator God was delusional and only held those beliefs due to a “wish-fulfillment” factor that produced what Freud considered to be an unjustifiable position. The philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche bluntly said that faith equates to not wanting to know what is true. The voices of these three figures from history (along with others) are simply now parroted by a new generation of atheists who claim that a belief in God is intellectually unwarranted.

Is this truly the case? Is belief in God a rationally unacceptable position to hold? Is there a logical and reasonable argument for the existence of God? Outside of referencing the Bible, can a case for the existence of God be made that refutes the positions of both the old and new atheists and gives sufficient warrant for believing in a Creator? The answer is, yes, it can. Moreover, in demonstrating the validity of an argument for the existence of God, the case for atheism is shown to be intellectually weak.

To make an argument for the existence of God, we must start by asking the right questions. We begin with the most basic metaphysical question: “Why do we have something rather than nothing at all?” This is the basic question of existence—why are we here; why is the earth here; why is the universe here rather than nothing? Commenting on this point, one theologian has said, “In one sense man does not ask the question about God, his very existence raises the question about God.”

In considering this question, there are four possible answers to why we have something rather than nothing at all:

1. Reality is an illusion.
2. Reality is/was self-created.
3. Reality is self-existent (eternal).
4. Reality was created by something that is self-existent.

So, which is the most plausible solution? Let’s begin with reality being simply an illusion, which is what a number of Eastern religions believe. This option was ruled out centuries ago by the philosopher Rene Descartes who is famous for the statement, “I think, therefore I am.” Descartes, a mathematician, argued that if he is thinking, then he must “be.” In other words, “I think, therefore I am not an illusion.” Illusions require something experiencing the illusion, and moreover, you cannot doubt the existence of yourself without proving your existence; it is a self-defeating argument. So the possibility of reality being an illusion is eliminated.

Next is the option of reality being self-created. When we study philosophy, we learn of “analytically false” statements, which means they are false by definition. The possibility of reality being self-created is one of those types of statements for the simple reason that something cannot be prior to itself. If you created yourself, then you must have existed prior to you creating yourself, but that simply cannot be. In evolution this is sometimes referred to as “spontaneous generation” —something coming from nothing—a position that few, if any, reasonable people hold to anymore simply because you cannot get something from nothing. Even the atheist David Hume said, “I never asserted so absurd a proposition as that anything might arise without a cause.” Since something cannot come from nothing, the alternative of reality being self-created is ruled out.

Now we are left with only two choices—an eternal reality or reality being created by something that is eternal: an eternal universe or an eternal Creator. The 18th-century theologian Jonathan Edwards summed up this crossroads:

• Something exists.
• Nothing cannot create something.
• Therefore, a necessary and eternal “something” exists.

Notice that we must go back to an eternal “something.” The atheist who derides the believer in God for believing in an eternal Creator must turn around and embrace an eternal universe; it is the only other door he can choose. But the question now is, where does the evidence lead? Does the evidence point to matter before mind or mind before matter?

To date, all key scientific and philosophical evidence points away from an eternal universe and toward an eternal Creator. From a scientific standpoint, honest scientists admit the universe had a beginning, and whatever has a beginning is not eternal. In other words, whatever has a beginning has a cause, and if the universe had a beginning, it had a cause. The fact that the universe had a beginning is underscored by evidence such as the second law of thermodynamics, the radiation echo of the big bang discovered in the early 1900s, the fact that the universe is expanding and can be traced back to a singular beginning, and Einstein’s theory of relativity. All prove the universe is not eternal.

Further, the laws that surround causation speak against the universe being the ultimate cause of all we know for this simple fact: an effect must resemble its cause. This being true, no atheist can explain how an impersonal, purposeless, meaningless, and amoral universe accidentally created beings (us) who are full of personality and obsessed with purpose, meaning, and morals. Such a thing, from a causation standpoint, completely refutes the idea of a natural universe birthing everything that exists. So in the end, the concept of an eternal universe is eliminated.

Philosopher J. S. Mill (not a Christian) summed up where we have now come to: “It is self-evident that only Mind can create mind.” The only rational and reasonable conclusion is that an eternal Creator is the one who is responsible for reality as we know it. Or to put it in a logical set of statements:

• Something exists.
• You do not get something from nothing.
• Therefore a necessary and eternal “something” exists.
• The only two options are an eternal universe and an eternal Creator.
• Science and philosophy have disproven the concept of an eternal universe.
• Therefore, an eternal Creator exists.

Former atheist Lee Strobel, who arrived at this end result many years ago, has commented, “Essentially, I realized that to stay an atheist, I would have to believe that nothing produces everything; non-life produces life; randomness produces fine-tuning; chaos produces information; unconsciousness produces consciousness; and non-reason produces reason. Those leaps of faith were simply too big for me to take, especially in light of the affirmative case for God's existence … In other words, in my assessment the Christian worldview accounted for the totality of the evidence much better than the atheistic worldview.”

But the next question we must tackle is this: if an eternal Creator exists (and we have shown that He does), what kind of Creator is He? Can we infer things about Him from what He created? In other words, can we understand the cause by its effects? The answer to this is yes, we can, with the following characteristics being surmised:

• He must be supernatural in nature (as He created time and space).
• He must be powerful (exceedingly).
• He must be eternal (self-existent).
• He must be omnipresent (He created space and is not limited by it).
• He must be timeless and changeless (He created time).
• He must be immaterial because He transcends space/physical.
• He must be personal (the impersonal cannot create personality).
• He must be infinite and singular as you cannot have two infinites.
• He must be diverse yet have unity as unity and diversity exist in nature.
• He must be intelligent (supremely). Only cognitive being can produce cognitive being.
• He must be purposeful as He deliberately created everything.
• He must be moral (no moral law can be had without a giver).
• He must be caring (or no moral laws would have been given).

These things being true, we now ask if any religion in the world describes such a Creator. The answer to this is yes: the God of the Bible fits this profile perfectly. He is supernatural (Genesis 1:1), powerful (Jeremiah 32:17), eternal (Psalm 90:2), omnipresent (Psalm 139:7), timeless/changeless (Malachi 3:6), immaterial (John 5:24), personal (Genesis 3:9), necessary (Colossians 1:17), infinite/singular (Jeremiah 23:24, Deuteronomy 6:4), diverse yet with unity (Matthew 28:19), intelligent (Psalm 147:4-5), purposeful (Jeremiah 29:11), moral (Daniel 9:14), and caring (1 Peter 5:6-7).

One last subject to address on the matter of God’s existence is the matter of how justifiable the atheist’s position actually is. Since the atheist asserts the believer’s position is unsound, it is only reasonable to turn the question around and aim it squarely back at him. The first thing to understand is that the claim the atheist makes—“no god,” which is what “atheist” means—is an untenable position to hold from a philosophical standpoint. As legal scholar and philosopher Mortimer Adler says, “An affirmative existential proposition can be proved, but a negative existential proposition—one that denies the existence of something—cannot be proved.” For example, someone may claim that a red eagle exists and someone else may assert that red eagles do not exist. The former only needs to find a single red eagle to prove his assertion. But the latter must comb the entire universe and literally be in every place at once to ensure he has not missed a red eagle somewhere and at some time, which is impossible to do. This is why intellectually honest atheists will admit they cannot prove God does not exist.

Next, it is important to understand the issue that surrounds the seriousness of truth claims that are made and the amount of evidence required to warrant certain conclusions. For example, if someone puts two containers of lemonade in front of you and says that one may be more tart than the other, since the consequences of getting the more tart drink would not be serious, you would not require a large amount of evidence in order to make your choice. However, if to one cup the host added sweetener but to the other he introduced rat poison, then you would want to have quite a bit of evidence before you made your choice.

This is where a person sits when deciding between atheism and belief in God. Since belief in atheism could possibly result in irreparable and eternal consequences, it would seem that the atheist should be mandated to produce weighty and overriding evidence to support his position, but he cannot. Atheism simply cannot meet the test for evidence for the seriousness of the charge it makes. Instead, the atheist and those whom he convinces of his position slide into eternity with their fingers crossed and hope they do not find the unpleasant truth that eternity does indeed exist. As Mortimer Adler says, “More consequences for life and action follow from the affirmation or denial of God than from any other basic question.”

So does belief in God have intellectual warrant? Is there a rational, logical, and reasonable argument for the existence of God? Absolutely. While atheists such as Freud claim that those believing in God have a wish-fulfillment desire, perhaps it is Freud and his followers who actually suffer from wish-fulfillment: the hope and wish that there is no God, no accountability, and therefore no judgment. But refuting Freud is the God of the Bible who affirms His existence and the fact that a judgment is indeed coming for those who know within themselves the truth that He exists but suppress that truth (Romans 1:20). But for those who respond to the evidence that a Creator does indeed exist, He offers the way of salvation that has been accomplished through His Son, Jesus Christ: "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God" (John 1:12-13).

David J Stewart #fundie #psycho #crackpot jesus-is-savior.com

HELL

Dr. W. Herschel Ford, 1969

Luke 16:19-31

We have come to a time when few people believe in a literal Hell. Yet it is still in the Bible, and it is still true because the Word of God is true. Men change their ideas but God's truth is always the same. The great Eternal God tells us that there is an eternal Hell for all those who reject Christ and live without God. Preaching on hell has diminished. We hear many light, fluffy sermons about peace, goodness, brotherhood, and the social gospel, but some congregations never hear hell even mentioned.

When Dr. Ramsay Pollard was pastor of the Broadway Baptist Church in Knoxville, one of his young people brought a boy from an Episcopal home to church one night. When the boy reached home after the service, his father asked him how he liked the sermon. "I liked it pretty good," said the boy, "but the preacher used a bad word right there in the pulpit. He used the word 'hell' over and over again." That boy had never heard the word used except in a bad sense. Yes, preaching about hell has cooled off, but hell is as hot as ever. The Bible that tells us of a wonderful heaven also tells us of an awful hell. God created hell just as sure as he created heaven. One is just as real, just as necessary, just as lasting as the other.

Reasons for Preaching on Hell

1. We must preach on hell because it's in the Bible. Do you want you preacher to preach his own ideas or the Word of God. You will reply, "Let him preach God's Word." Therefore he must preach the whole counsel of God. He must preach about heaven and delight in it. He must preach about hell even though he dislikes to do so. The preacher has not been called to tell what he believes, or what his church thinks, or what someone writes in a magazine. He must preach what God says. We know what God says is true. We know that there is a hell. We know that we must warn men to escape the "wrath to come".

So, let today's preacher preach on hell. But let him preach it in love. A great teacher once said, "Young men, you should preach on hell but let it be with a broken heart and tears in your eyes." We must tell men about the everlasting home of the doomed, but we must [sorrow?] over those who are condemned. And we must tell them of a loving Saviour whose death makes it possible for them to avoid hell.

2. We must preach on hell to awaken Christians. People all around us are going to hell. They are getting closer to the flames everyday. But we are asleep; we dont' realize what peril they are in. It may be someone very near and dear to you. If I can get you to see their lost condition and how hell is waiting for them, maybe you'll start praying and working for their salvation.

General Booth of the Salvation Army was speaking to a graduating class in the Army's training school. These young people had been there several years, learning how to work for God and win souls. The general said, "Young men, if I could have had my way, I would never have had you here for these years of training. But I would have put you in hell for 24 hours. I would have allowed you to feel the pains and pangs of the damned, to hear the weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth. I would have caused you to see how they suffer forever. Then I would have sent you out into the world to warn men to flee from the wrath to come." General Booth was right. If we really knew what hell was like, nothing could stop us from urging men to come to Christ. So we must preach on hell, hoping that people will get concerned for their friends and loved ones who are going there.

3. We must preach on hell to warn sinners. It's an awful thing to remember that you could be in hell in another minute. No doctor can guarantee you of even one minute of life. David said, "there is but a step between me and death." (I Sam. 20:3) I have looked out into my congregation and seen someone in good health, well and strong, and before another Sunday they had gone to be with the Lord. It could happen to you; it could happen to me. What if you are not ready? What if Christ is not your Saviour? This means that you would be doomed forever.

Some people had no use for the Gospel. They hated preachers and laughed at Bible truth. Now they are in hell. Let's talk to one of them for a minute.

"Did you intend to come to hell?"

"No," he answers, "I meant all along to become a Christian and get ready for death. But I waited too long. Death slipped up on me and the next thing I knew I was in hell."

"Were you a wicked man? Were you a drunkard, or a thief, or a murderer or adulterer?"

"Oh no," he answers, "I lived a pretty good life, but I left out the main thing. I left Christ out of my life."

So today we have to preach on hell to warn men. Look all around you, lost sinner. People are dying every day. Your hour is coming. I want you to realize the seriousness of it and come to Christ. This is the only way you can escape hell.

The Certainty of Hell

Today many learned men deny the existence of hell. We have come to a time when we talk glibly about the brotherhood of man and the fatherhood of God. We imply that everybody loves everybody else and that all men are saved. We think of God as a great big beneficient Santa Claus, smiling down upon all. But God is not the father of all. He is the Creator of all, but not the Father of all. He becomes our father only when we come to Christ. Jesus said in John 8:44, "Ye are of your father the devil...." He was thinking of lost people. John 1:12 tells us that "as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God....." These are the ones who can claim God as Father. They are saved, and they'll never go to hell. But remember this, you are not a child of God until you come unto Him through faith in His Son, Jesus Christ.

A preacher preached a sermon on hell and a woman asked him if he had any children. He replied that he did. "Do you love them?" she asked. "Oh yes," the preacher answered. "Well," the woman said, "what would you think of a father who could save his children from suffering and refused to do it?" "I would say that he was a tyrant and a monster," the preacher said. "That's what you're making God out to be. God would be a monster if He sent his children to hell instead of delivering them by his power." "But lady," the preacher responded, "you're making one mistake. God doesn't have any children in hell and he never will have. The people in hell are the devil's children. All of God's children are in heaven or on the way there. God has a home for His children and the devil has a home for his."

He was right. God is the Father only of those who believe in Jesus Christ....who have been born again. Too many people are presuming on the goodness of God as an excuse for sin. They say, "Let us live as we please. God is too good to punish us." One day they are going to have a rude awakening.

The Bible, God's inerrant Word, tell us that there is both a heaven and a hell. If we receive one and reject the other, we are reflecting upon the truth of God's Word. But we are not left to depend upon the opinions and speculations of men. We must rest upon the infallible truth of the infallible Bible.

You may deny the fact of hell, but that does not change the fact that it exists. Fire burns, whether you choose to believe that it does or not...poison kills, whether you believe it will or not. The world is round, whether you believe it or not....and hell is a reality whether you believe it or not. And if you reject the offer Christ is making today, you will go to hell, whether you believe you will or not.

Now listen to Jesus. He knew the truth about hell. He said that a certain rich man died and went down to hell, and was in torment. He said that the man cried out, "I am tormented in these flames." He said that the man was anxious for his brothers to repent, so that they would not come to that "place of torment."

If a man breaks the laws of the land, what else is there to do but punish him? He is put in prison or sentenced to death. And if men rebel and sin against God and trample his son under foot, what else is God to do but put them in the prison called Hell? Man must exact his penalty for a broken law and so must God.

Suppose that a train carrying 500 passengers was coming down the track and that you and I were 20 miles ahead of the train. And suppose that we found that a trestle over a mighty river had fallen in. As I think of the train approaching, I say, "I must warn them and save their lives." But you say, "I wouldn 't do that, it might scare the passengers. Some of them would faint. Be nice to them and don't disturb them." And the train rushes on to tragedy and the passengers are killed.

Have I done the right thing? Have I been prompted by love? No. If I loved people, I would warn them. And if I love lost souls, I must hold up my Bible and say, "This is God's Word. It tells us that there is a hell for those who reject Christ. Come to him and be saved from such an awful fate."

So I say to you, not out of my own wisdom but on the strength of God's Word, that there is a hell as surely as there is a heaven. And men who reject Christ go to hell as surely as those who accept him go to heaven.

The Bible's Description of Hell

Look for a minute at the biblical expression which describe hell. It is called a Lake of Fire - a bottomless pit - a horrible tempest - a devouring fire - a place of sorrows - a place of weeping and wailing - a place of torments - everlasting destruction - a place of outer darkness - a place where men have no rest - a place where men are tormented with fire and brimstone - a place where the fire is not quenched.

1. It is a place of separation from God. We couldn't exist here a second if we were cut off from God. But think of being in hell, cut off from Him forever. We can pray here; we can call on His name. But prayers will not help in hell, for men will be forever separated from God.

2. It is a place of unsatisfied desires. When we have desires here, we can usually satisfy them in some measure. If a man desires money, there are many ways to get it. If he wants liquor, he can get it. If he wants to satisfy his fleshly nature, he can do it. But in hell, he will be burning up with these desires, and there will be no way to satisfy them. The rich man in hell wanted water, but there was no way to get it. So man, with all of this cravings, will suffer in hell with unsatisfied desires.

3. It is a place of vilest companionship. The worst people, the meanest, cruelest, filthiest people will be there. Let me tell you something that will add to the horrors of hell for some people. They live clean lives, they are cultured and refined, they are good citizens, they are nice to their family and friends. But they reject Jesus Christ. One day they will be cast into hell, to live the rest of eternity with liars, adulterers, murderers, drunkards, homosexuals, and the vilest of creatures. This will be an awful thing for them and will last forever. They can never die and leave these people, and they can't get up and move away.

4. It is a place of hopelessness. Hope is the mainspring that keeps us going down here. When we are sick, we hope to get well. When we are poor, we hope things will get better. When we are unhappy, we hope soon to find happiness. When we have an unpleasant job, we hope to get a better one. But there is no hope in hell. There you just suffer and live in hopeless despair. Over the doors of an ancient prison were these words: "Abandon hope all ye that enter herein." That is nothing compared to hell. There is not one second of hope there. When you are cast into hell, it is forever.

5. It is a place of suffering. I don't think I need to dwell on that. Every Bible description of hell denotes suffering - intense, everlasting suffering. I know a woman who is now suffering greatly. She knows she is going to die soon, so she says, "It will soon be over." No one can ever say that in hell. There suffering there never ends.

6. It is a place of memory. When men are haunted by a bitter memory here, they can commit suicide. But you can't do that in hell; you must live on; you must remember. Your memory will be like 10,000 mirrors around you, recalling all the sins and follies of your life. You will remember how you sold your eternal soul for the pleasures of this world. You will remember every sermon and every song you ever heard, every invitation to salvation, every wooing of the Holy Spirit. You will remember how your mother prayed for you and your friends and family sought to win you to Christ. You will remember how you held back from any decision for Christ. As you remember all these things, this memory will be hell in itself. Oh, to be shut up in hell with memory always fresh.

You will remember that instead of suffering in hell, you could have been enjoying the happiness and bliss of heaven. You will remember the easy terms upon which you could have been saved. If it had been impossible for you to repent and trust Christ, this would have made the agony easier. But you will remember that you could have had eternal life for the asking, and you turned it down. You will remember how cheaply you sold out to Satan, and how you exchanged the joys of heaven for the sorrows of hell.

On this earth you sometimes blame Christians for your own sins. You say that they are a bunch of hypocrites. Then you turn your back on God and continue in your sin. You blame everybody else for you unsaved condition while you're here, but in hell you'll remember that you're the guilty one. Remember now that the issue is between you and God and no one else. You must account to Him for yourself and not for the hypocrites. It will be no one's fault but your own if you deliberately seal your own doom.

It isn't easy to go to hell. Before you get there you must climb over the church, the Bible, gospel sermons, your conscience, your better judgment, the Holy Spirit, and all the providences of God. Then finally you must climb over Calvary and trample Jesus Christ under foot. In hell, you'll remember that you did all of this.

When Does Hell Begin?

It begins at the end of a Christless life. If you go through life without Christ, your soul enters into conscious suffering when you die. I am not saying that you enter into the full measure of suffering at that time. This must wait until all the records are in. Then at the Great White Throne judgment, all the sinner's works will be judged, and the degree of punishment will be determined. Oh, man without Christ, you don't know how close you are to hell. It may be that before midnight your heart will stop beating and you'll go out to begin an eternity of suffering and anguish.

What do you have to look forward to if Christ is not your Saviour? At best, you have only a few more years in this world with its pleasures, its troubles and sorrows. Then comes a death without hope and nothing beyond but everlasting doom. How different is the outlook of a Christian! Just a little while longer here, then the door opens and he enters into the joy of his Lord and a glorious heaven. Oh, friend, what folly to go on without Christ and miss heaven.

How Can We Escape Hell?

You can never escape it through the good works of the flesh. You may do many things to gain the favor of God. You may join a church, be baptized, give your money, help people, live a good life. But these things will not save you. Salvation is an inner thing, a thing of the heart. The Bible plainly tells us that if we believe on Jesus Christ, the doors of hell will be forever closed to us.

You were condemned to die. But God's son could not be satisfied to see you die and go down to hell. He said, "Father, I'll pay the price for him. I'll suffer the pangs of death in his place. I'll satisfy the demands of the law on him." So he went to the cross and paid in full the measure for all of our sins. Now if we accept that payment, our sins are forgiven, we are saved, we become the children of God and heirs of heaven.

Your sins may have been as black as the pit, or you may have lived a good moral life. It doesn't matter - there is mercy for you with the Lord. He was bruised for your iniquities and wounded for your transgressions. He stands today with open arms saying, “Come unto me and I will give you rest.”

END

Old Man Montgomery #fundie oldmanmontgomery.wordpress.com

[=Authors Note: For the sake of trimming, some of the Bible verses in the original page have been removed=]

From the website of ‘johnshore.com’

These were published and dated December 16, 2010. I have only recently become aware of this ‘movement’ via Facebook. (One never knows what one will find there.) These are referred to as the “Sixteen Tenets of ‘unfundamentalist Christians’ , known also or previously known as ‘ThruWay Christians’. Being the old-fashioned, hard-nosed Bible thumper that I am, I disagree with some facets of this and the conclusions of the entirety.

Of course I have reasons and those reasons are published below. Just for convenience, I numbered the statements, replacing what appeared in my copy as a paragraph ‘dot’.

Just for the record, as the article was dated December 16, 2010, it is entirely possible Mr. Shore has completely changed his mind and recanted this whole document. On the other hand, I just checked Mr. Shore’s last blog entry and he’s still pitching the “UnFund” theme.

Caution: If the reader is not a Christian believer, much of this discussion will seem pointless. Feel free to read on, but if you’re confused, don’t worry, it happens to lots of folks.

Here beings the tenets:

1. Jesus Christ was God incarnate. He performed miracles; as a means of providing for the irrevocable reconciliation of humankind to God he sacrificed himself on the cross; he rose from the dead; he left behind for the benefit of all people the totality of himself in the form of the indwelling Holy Spirit.

So far, I’m in agreement. Jesus is God incarnate; the ‘Son’ who is God Himself. Jesus was executed and killed (no alternatives) on a Roman cross under Roman law. Jesus’ death was the final sacrifice needed to atone for the sin of all people who appeal to Him for forgiveness. Jesus rose from the dead on the third day showing Himself to be God and giving a promise to all of an Eternal life in Heaven with Him. He sent the Third Person of the Godhead, the ‘Holy Spirit’ to believers after His ascension.

2. Christ and Christianity are meant to be understood, appreciated, and experienced as galvanizing inspirations for living a life of love, compassion, fairness, peace, and humility. Period.

Now we’re disagreeing. The primary purpose and function of Christianity is to repair the breach between God and mankind due to mankind’s rebellion and disobedience. Being forgiven by Jesus and redeemed by His sacrifice, mankind can have a direct and proper relationship with God. The qualities of love, compassion, fairness, peace and humility are by-products of that proper relationship, not the primary aim.

Am I splitting hairs here? Not as much as one might think; the matter becomes clearer as we proceed.

3. The Bible is a collection of a great many separate documents written by different people in different languages over thousands of years. Properly understanding both the letter and spirit of the Bible necessarily entails taking into account the historical and cultural contexts that so greatly inform so much of its text. The size, density, history and complexity of the Bible render unfeasible the idea that not one of its words reflects more man’s will than God’s. The spirit of God is inerrant; people—even those impassioned by the conviction that God is speaking directly to or through them—are not.

The one starts out well and descends into heresy. The Bible was written over a period of approximately 1500 years. The Books of Moses, the Torah – sometimes Pentateuch, was written in the period between the Exodus from Egypt, around 1400 B. C. to the time of the Babylonian Captivity, around 600 to 530 B. C. (give or take a decade or so.) The book of Revelation, written by John the Apostle was written around 90 A. D. The rest was written somewhere in between, with the possible exception of Job. Job was one of the earliest sections written and may predate Moses. The Bible was assuredly written by at least forty different authors. (For instance, the books of Judges, Kings and Chronicles were written over periods of time and one author could not have written them all; they require accounts from events several hundred years apart. The Torah was more than likely written by a number of scribes with Moses or a later, Babylonian scholar as ‘editor’ and having final input. Genesis is obviously based on oral traditions of the Israelite nation.) The books reflect social conventions and cultural coloring of the times involved.

However, it is the message of Almighty God to humanity. No matter how much a human can foul up, the integrity of the message is based on God’s ability to ensure His message is properly passed on. No human can foul up or outright lie good enough to defeat God’s purpose. So as much as mankind wrote the words on paper (papyrus or whatever), the ‘Word’ (Greek ‘logos’, meaning idea, identity or concept) is that of God. As such, it is inerrant in message.

The idea of the Bible being ‘written by man and therefore possibly distorted’ is an old heresy. It was argued about in the earliest councils trying to settle on the ‘Bible’ and is the basis for several cults who claim to be Christian, but rely on teachings of extra Biblical origin. The heresy also finds much favor among those who wish to discredit any one particular facet of Christian doctrine. Under any version, the idea the Bible isn’t correct means either God really doesn’t care about the message or God is incapable of protecting His own plan. Christians cannot in good faith (no pun intended) accept either alternative.

4. Anyone seeking to mix church and state has failed to understand the nature and proper role of either. Belief that all people are created equal and are deserving of equal protection under the law is foundational to all modern democratic nations. To incorporate the inherently exclusionary imperatives of a particular religion into the determinedly inclusive system of democracy would be to undermine the very spirit of democracy by pushing it toward a theocracy.

This is a pretty silly statement and is highly ignorant of history. The ‘foundational’ belief of people being created equal and deserving equal protection under law is uniquely derived from the Judeo-Christian tradition. It is not found in Islam, Confucianism, Buddhism, Hinduism or any of the other ‘religions’ of the world. It is Christianity that fostered Democracy, not Democracy that fostered Christianity.

Additionally, it was Christian believers and supporters who founded the United States as a nation with no state religion. The United States was not founded as a ‘Christian nation’, but was indeed begun as a ‘nation of Christians’. To pretend otherwise is to ignore history and to invite serious question as to the point of the discussion. One must also note that all movements to ‘remove’ the influence of Christianity from the United States and civil laws result in the promotion of either Secular Humanism or Islam.

There are no moral vacuums.

5. It’s not possible to read Paul’s New Testament writings and remain unmoved by his open heart, intellectual prowess, and staggering bravery. And yet Paul (who, after all, spent years zealously persecuting and having executed untold numbers of Christians) must remain to us a mortal man. More than reasonable, it is incumbent upon those who claim to seek the deepest knowledge of Christ to subject the words of Paul to the same kinds of objective analysis we would the words of any man daring to describe the qualities, purposes, and desires of God.

This is a gentle, lofty and seemingly reasonable attempt to undermine the message presented by God through Paul the Apostle. What this statement does is deny the Divine inspiration and authorship of the Bible as a whole. It returns to the fore in a moment with more of the ‘villify Paul’ agenda.

6. With regards to the written identity of God, the pronoun “he” is a necessity of the English language, not an actual anatomical designation. God is neither male nor female; God contains all of both.

Again, agreement. In Hebrew, just as in English, the male pronoun unless specifically intended refers to both male and female. Jesus says (John 4:23 and 24)“But a time is coming – and now is here – when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father seeks such people to be his worshipers. God is spirit, and the people who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.” Also one notes in Genesis (chapter one, verses 26 and 27)
“Then God said, “Let us make humankind in our image, after our likeness, so they may rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move on the earth.”
God created humankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them,
male and female he created them.

So, both male and female were (still are, more or less, being distorted from the original model by mankind’s disobedience) created in God’s image; which manifestly means not a physical image, but a mental and spiritual image.

7. The Biblical scholarship supporting the idea that Paul never wrote a word proscribing natural homosexuality is at least as credible and persuasive as the scholarship (if not typical Bible translations) claiming that he did. Any person who uses the words of Paul in the New Testament to “prove” that homosexuality is a sin against God has either never themselves researched the matter, or has simply chosen to believe one set of equal proofs over another. Though laziness is easily enough understood, we remain mystified as to why anyone who purports to follow Jesus would choose to condemn an entire population over choosing to obey Jesus’ self-proclaimed Greatest Commandment to love one’s neighbor as one loves oneself.

Here’s the follow up to point 5. Once Paul is ‘questionable’, the condemnation of homosexuality can be dismissed as a personal quirk, or possibly an outright error on the part of Christianity (on the whole).

Here’s the premise of the tenet: Paul either really didn’t mean what he wrote about the practice of homosexuality despite what is clearly written in the original Greek manuscripts and all subsequent translations of the Bible, or Paul was mistaken and therefore not inspired by God. What an amazing statement.

Either God inspired and authored the Bible or not. If one chooses to deny God’s inspiration in part, then the whole becomes suspect. If God was lax in allowing Paul to write and publish errors, then what of the rest of the Bible is trustworthy? Conversely, if God did in fact inspire and author the Bible, then Paul’s writing is equally trustworthy.

Leviticus 18
This entire section (several chapters) deals with sexual sins and prohibitions. In part (I have inserted whole paragraphs to present an in context view):
19 You must not approach a woman in her menstrual impurity to have sexual intercourse with her. 20 You must not have sexual intercourse with the wife of your fellow citizen to become unclean with her. 21 You must not give any of your children as an offering to Molech, so that you do not profane the name of your God. I am the Lord! 22 You must not have sexual intercourse with a male as one has sexual intercourse with a woman; it is a detestable act. 23 You must not have sexual intercourse with any animal to become defiled with it, and a woman must not stand before an animal to have sexual intercourse with it; it is a perversion.
Leviticus 20
9 “‘If anyone curses his father and mother he must be put to death. He has cursed his
father and mother; his blood guilt is on himself. 10 If a man commits adultery with his neighbor’s wife, both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death. 11 If a man has sexual intercourse with his father’s wife, he has exposed his father’s nakedness. Both of them must be put to death; their blood guilt is on themselves. 12 If a man has sexual intercourse with his daughter-in-law, both of them must be put to death. They have committed perversion; their blood guilt is on themselves. 13 If a man has sexual intercourse with a male as one has sexual intercourse with a woman, the two of them have committed an abomination. They must be put to death; their blood guilt is on themselves. 14 If a man has sexual intercourse with both a woman and her mother, it is lewdness. Both he and they must be burned to death, so there is no lewdness in your midst. 15 If a man has sexual intercourse with any animal, he must be put to death, and you must kill the animal. 16 If a woman approaches any animal to have sexual intercourse with it, you must kill the woman, and the animal must be put to death; their blood guilt is on themselves.

These two passages are from the Torah, the first five books of the Old Testament. One can argue these are part of the Jewish or Mosaic Law and are therefore obsolete; in that case, general adultery, incest and bestiality are also permitted along with homosexual conduct. Or is that the point?

First Timothy 1 (written by that suspect Paul fellow)

8 But we know that the law is good if someone uses it legitimately, 9 realizing that law is not intended for a righteous person, but for lawless and rebellious people, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 sexually immoral people, practicing homosexuals, kidnappers, liars, perjurers – in fact, for any who live contrary to sound teaching. 11 This accords with the glorious gospel of the blessed God that was entrusted to me.

There is a note on the phrase ‘practicing homosexuals’ in verse 10 from the NET Bible: “…this term… ??se?????t?? states, “a male who engages in sexual activity w. a pers. of his own sex, pederast 1 Cor 6:9…of one who assumes the dominant role in same-sex activity, opp. µa?a???…1 Ti 1:10; Pol 5:3. Cp. Ro 1:27.” L&N 88.280 states, “a male partner in homosexual intercourse – ‘homosexual.’…It is possible that ??se?????t?? in certain contexts refers to the active male partner in homosexual intercourse in contrast with µa?a???, the passive male partner” (cf. 1 Cor 6:9). Since there is a distinction in contemporary usage between sexual orientation and actual behavior, the qualification “practicing” was supplied in the translation…”

First Corinthians 6 (also written by that questionable Paul)
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! The sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, passive homosexual partners, practicing homosexuals, 10 thieves, the greedy, drunkards, the verbally abusive, and swindlers will not inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Some of you once lived this way. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

This last passage strikes me an illuminating. Homosexuals are included in a list of sin categories which include heterosexual sexual sinners, idolaters, adulterers (distinct from ‘sexually immoral heterosexuals), thieves, greedy, drunkards, verbally abusive and swindlers. The phrase ‘verbally abusive’ is rather interesting. The NIV translates it as ‘slanderers’; I think ‘gossips’ might easily fit into the meaning. At any rate, people who say nasty things about others are lumped in with murderers, thieves and the sexually immoral (of any type).

The last verse in the paragraph implies a change of life in those reading the letter. “Some of you … lived… But you were washed… sanctified… justified…” So they were not just forgiven and allowed to continue; they changed their values and life-styles. The same implication applies to the sexually impure; they don’t do that sort of thing anymore; they avoid that sort of thing; they are ashamed of and denounce their own past behavior.

Therefore, the Old Testament writings prohibited homosexual conduct as does the writings of Paul, therefore the New Testament. The words used really do mean homosexual conduct and not just the generic ‘sexual misconduct’.

I’m really curious about the ‘equal scholarship’ which demonstrates what the Bible says isn’t what it means. I’d like to examine the line of thought and arguments.

The statement “…Jesus’ self-proclaimed Greatest Commandment to love one’s neighbor as one loves oneself” is incorrect and sloppy scholarship.

Matthew 22:
35 And one of them, an expert in religious law, asked him a question to test him: 36 “Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest?” 37 Jesus 44 said to him, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment.

This tenet goes past ‘unfundamentalism’ and is squarely non-Christian.

8. It is much more reasonable—and certainly more compassionate—to hold that throughout history God chose to introduce himself in different ways into different cultural streams than it is to believe that there is only one correct way to understand and worship God, and that the punishment for anyone who chooses any but that way is to spend all of eternity having the living flesh seared off of his or her bones.

More reasonable? By who’s standard? As a Christian, the only viewpoint that counts is God’s viewpoint. That ‘viewpoint’ is expressed in the Bible, which is – as noted prior – God’s message to humanity.

More compassionate? To whom? Not to mention under what definition of ‘compassion’? I find no compassion in patting someone in error on the head and say comforting words while allowing them to remain in error at the risk of Eternal Death.

So let’s go along with the idea of God introducing Himself into different cultural streams in different ways. Why would introduce Himself in a totally different manner if He’s the same, Eternal God? For instance, in the sub-continent which is now India, why would God decide not to be the Eternal God of Creation of the Jewish people, but instead be represented by a pantheon of conflicting gods which change over time? Why would Almighty God manifest Himself as the volcano god, demanding virgin sacrifices? Would God happily change Himself into the Great Green Arkleseizure of Viltvodle VI?

Is He still God? Is He bored and just experimenting? Can He not remember who He is, from epoch to epoch?

The idea appeals to the ‘open-minded’ who have no ideas about who God is, or what He should be or do. The concept flies in the face of the ultimate creator of the Universe and all things that exist, who is Eternal and changeless, who is omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent. In other words, God.

Again, not just ‘unfundamentalist’, but not very good thinking and doctrinally non Christian.

9. “No one comes to the Father except through me” does not mean that in the afterlife only Christians can get into heaven. It means that Jesus/God decides who does and doesn’t make it in.

From this one is forced to believe Jesus will not judge between those who accept Him and those who don’t, but instead will judge by ad hoc rules of ‘good behavior’. I say ‘ad hoc’ because no such rules are outlined in the Bible.

All that stuff about believing in the Son and relying on Him in tenet 1 are out the window, then? It is good deeds that really make the difference?

This heresy is remarkably old as well. It predates Christianity, in fact.

Jesus mentioned this concept in Matthew Seven, starting with verse 15:
15 “Watch out for false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are voracious wolves. 16 You will recognize them by their fruit. Grapes are not gathered from thorns or figs from thistles, are they? 17 In the same way, every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree is not able to bear bad fruit, nor a bad tree to bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 So then, you will recognize them by their fruit.
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of heaven – only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. 22 On that day, many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons and do many powerful deeds?’ 23 Then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you. Go away from me, you lawbreakers!’
24 “Everyone who hears these words of mine and does them is like a wise man who built his house on rock. 25 The rain fell, the flood came, and the winds beat against that house, but it did not collapse because it had been founded on rock. 26 Everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain fell, the flood came, and the winds beat against that house, and it collapsed; it was utterly destroyed!”
So then, what about “… the one who does the will of my Father in heaven…”? John 15, starting with verse nine makes it clear:
9 “Just as the Father has loved me, I have also loved you; remain in my love. 10 If you obey my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commandments and remain in his love. 11 I have told you these things so that my joy may be in you, and your joy may be complete.”

Nowhere in the Bible, nowhere in the quotations of Jesus, nowhere in the letters of the various apostles and elders in Jerusalem is any such doctrine mentioned or taught. In one setting (John 10:14-18), Jesus says,
14 “I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me – 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father – and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep that do not come from this sheepfold. I must bring them too, and they will listen to my voice, so that there will be one flock and one shepherd. 17 This is why the Father loves me – because I lay down my life, so that I may take it back again. 18 No one takes it away from me, but I lay it down of my own free will. I have the authority to lay it down, and I have the authority to take it back again. This commandment I received from my Father.”

Verse 16 is often used to ‘prove’ the heresy of various versions of God and or Jesus running about in human history, showing up in various forms and guises. One fellow seriously suggested it could indicate the existence of extra-terrestrial life. Actually, the statement simply indicates non-Jewish people were included. That’s all.

I personally don’t have any problem with extra-terrestrial life, or any of them being in Heaven. But it will be on the basis of an individual relationship with Jesus Christ.

I am also firmly convinced all the inhabitants of planet Earth will have adequate notice of the person and Deity of Jesus Christ. God is not the sort of being who looks for tiny excuses and ‘foot-faults’ to disqualify anyone from Heaven.

10. The question of whether or not hell is real is properly subsumed by the truth that a moment spent worrying if you’ll be with God in the afterlife is an opportunity missed to be with God in this life.

I agree. There is no point of wondering, let alone worrying, if Hell is real. Jesus talks about it too much to be in doubt. It isn’t pleasant, but it’s there. One is obliged to take note and do something to avoid residence.

11. God’s will and intention is to forgive and teach us, not to judge and punish us.

That is true, but only to a qualified extent. Jesus came to Earth as a mortal man to tell us what to do to avoid Eternal punishment and die in our place to pay the price for our sin. Obviously, God the Father was in on this plan as was the Holy Spirit.

God really does not want anyone to spend Eternity in Hell. However, since all mankind is in the default position of being in rebellion against God, mankind is by default condemned to Eternal Hell.

The words of Jesus in John, chapter three:
16 For this is the way God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world should be saved through him. 18 The one who believes in him is not condemned. The one who does not believe has been condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God. 19 Now this is the basis for judging: that the light has come into the world and people loved the darkness rather than the light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil deeds hates the light and does not come to the light, so that their deeds will not be exposed. 21 But the one who practices the truth comes to the light, so that it may be plainly evident that his deeds have been done in God.
God is loving and concerned. God is simultaneously honest and just. God is God and that means – in a long list of other things – He will always conduct Himself as God and be true to His own nature.

There are also a number of references warning that when Jesus returns – ‘The Second Coming’ – He will in fact judge all people according to their alliances.

12. The only person who should be actively endeavoring to convert non-Christians into Christians is God. Jesus does not need our help drawing people towards him. He does need, or could certainly use, our help in making sure that people know that they are, just as they are, loved.

This statement directly contradicts the command of Jesus.

Matthew 28:16-20
16 So the eleven disciples went to Galilee to the mountain Jesus had designated. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him, but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came up and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age

Acts 1
6 So when they had gathered together, they began to ask him, “Lord, is this the time when you are restoring the kingdom to Israel?” 7 He told them, “You are not permitted to know the times or periods that the Father has set by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the farthest parts of the earth.” 9 After he had said this, while they were watching, he was lifted up and a cloud hid him from their sight.

First Peter 3
15 But set Christ apart as Lord in your hearts and always be ready to give an answer to anyone who asks about the hope you possess. (“Hope” here meaning the expectation of Eternal life with God.)

So in this statement again, the concept is not ‘un-fundamentalist’ but ‘un-Christian’.

13. Getting a divorce is painful, and if at all possible should certainly be avoided. But ultimately the act in and of itself is not immoral.

This statement flatly contradicts Jesus’ teaching on the subject.

Matthew 5
31 “It was said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife must give her a legal document.’ 32 But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Matthew 19
3 Then some Pharisees came to him in order to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful to divorce a wife for any cause?” 4 He answered, “Have you not read that from the beginning the Creator made them male and female, 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and will be united with his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.” 7 They said to him, “Why then did Moses command us to give a certificate of dismissal and to divorce her?” 8 Jesus said to them, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because of your hard hearts, but from the beginning it was not this way. 9 Now I say to you that whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another commits adultery.” 10 The disciples said to him, “If this is the case of a husband with a wife, it is better not to marry!”11 He said to them, “Not everyone can accept this statement, except those to whom it has been given. 12 For there are some eunuchs who were that way from birth, and some who were made eunuchs by others, and some who became eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who is able to accept this should accept it.”

So yes, Jesus said divorce is an immoral act, save for the cause of adultery. Even then, the divorced man or woman is limited in options.

14. God does not want any woman “submitting” to anyone.

Another direct contradiction of Biblical teaching.

Ephesians 5
22 Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord, 23 because the husband is the head of the wife as also Christ is the head of the church – he himself being the savior of the body. 24 But as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. 25 Husbands, love your wives just as Christ loved the church and gave himself for her 26 to sanctify her by cleansing her with the washing of the water by the word, 27 so that he may present the church to himself as glorious – not having a stain or wrinkle, or any such blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In the same way husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.

Colossians 3
18 Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord. 19 Husbands, love your wives and do not be embittered against them.

Oh, wait! That’s that questionable Paul again! Since Paul is so very questionable, we can ignore much of his writings – especially the parts about moral conduct, sexual misconduct and general carryings-on.

First Peter 3
1 In the same way, wives, be subject to your own husbands. Then, even if some are disobedient to the word, they will be won over without a word by the way you live, 2 when they see your pure and reverent conduct… like Sarah who obeyed Abraham, calling him lord. You become her children when you do what is good and have no fear in doing so. 7 Husbands, in the same way, treat your wives with consideration as the weaker partners and show them honor as fellow heirs of the grace of life. In this way nothing will hinder your prayers.

That’s the summation of Peter the Apostle. He agrees with Paul the suspect.

15. There were no dinosaurs on Noah’s ark; Jesus didn’t have a pet stegosaurus. An all-powerful God and the theory of evolution are not incompatible.

Whooop! Whooop! Whooop! Strawman Alert!
So, just where do we find claims of dinosaurs on Noah’s Ark? Which gospel contains the story of Jesus and His pet stegosaurus? What kind of hairball ploy is this?

Okay, “An all-powerful God and the theory of evolution are not incompatible.” That part is reasonable enough. However, this isn’t a matter of doctrinal distinction; it’s a matter of textual examination.

Dinosaurs on the Ark? Sheesh.

16. The single most telling indicator of a person’s moral character has nothing to do with how they define or worship God, and everything to do with how they treat others.

So, a relationship with God isn’t important; what is important is ‘good deeds’.

Actually, this is a deceptive argument; somewhat strawman in nature. I’ll agree one’s ‘moral character’ is not always dependent on how one defines or worships God. However, one’s moral character has nothing to do with one’s Eternal estate, being in a proper relationship with God and spending Eternity with God in Heaven.

One can be a rotten skunk and be bound for Heaven, or a very decent, clean, honest and honorable person going to Hell.

I know for a fact that my moral character was – for that matter ‘is’ – not always as good and shining as it ought to be. After becoming a Christian, I have sinned grievously, often and cheerfully. But my eternal destination is already secure and in Jesus’ care. As far as God is concerned in Judgment, I am as pure as Jesus.

Which is not to say I’m content in my life that way, or at peace with God. I found I was a jittery, angry, depressed, unsettled maniac; at least some combination of two or three of those. I can hide it well, but it’s there and I am very aware of it.

What happens is this: God works on me to make me into who – the type of person – He wants me to be, fit for Heaven in Eternity.

To conclude:

“Un-fundamentalists” accept the Deity, Sacrifice, Resurrection and Redemptive nature and power of Jesus Christ. However, they also believe God has appeared in other forms and guises, seemingly revealing other versions of Himself. So Jesus really isn’t uniquely God at all.

“Un-fundamentalists” deny the Divinely Inspired nature of the Bible, strip Paul’s writing of authority and accept homosexual misconduct – and by inference, heterosexual misconduct – as both normal and moral.

“Un-fundamentalists” claim the goal of Christianity is to live a good life; ‘good’ being defined by not offending anyone, getting along with all and ignoring Biblical principles if adherence would cause a row.

“Un-fundamentalists” believe Christians should not vote in accordance with Biblical principles. Nor should laws follow the long held traditions of either Judaism or Christianity.

“Un-fundamentalists” do not assume responsibility for evangelism; in fact, evangelism is discouraged.

“Un-fundamentalists” believe God never criticizes or judges human conduct. They believe there is no Hell. After all, God isn’t going to punish anyone for anything anyway.

All things considered, “Un-fundamentalist Christian” is not a properly descriptive phrase. Citing the serious theological and doctrinal differences between this cult and mainstream Christianity, I would suggest perhaps “Nearly Christian” would be a better description. Since the first tenet does recognize Jesus as God, perhaps “Barely Christian” would do.

Now, I know some bright soul is going to jump on me with the Biblical injunction of “Judge not, lest ye be judged”. The statement comes in Matthew 7, starting with the beginning of the chapter. The whole paragraph reads as follows:

1 “Do not judge so that you will not be judged. 2 For by the standard you judge you will be judged, and the measure you use will be the measure you receive. 3 Why do you see the speck in your brother’s eye, but fail to see the beam of wood in your own? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye,’ while there is a beam in your own? 5 You hypocrite! First remove the beam from your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. 6 Do not give what is holy to dogs or throw your pearls before pigs; otherwise they will trample them under their feet and turn around and tear you to pieces.

This whole speech is addressed at being judgmental of other people in regard to their fitness or standing before God. I am not ‘judging’ any person, but a set of beliefs and how they measure up to Christianity, I am not violating any injunction. Indeed, I am following a warning given by John the Revelator in First John 4:

1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to determine if they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses Jesus as the Christ who has come in the flesh is from God, 3 but every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God, and this is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming, and now is already in the world.

So I am testing this ‘spirit’, this claim of revelation of God. I find interesting that tenet 1 claims to recognize Jesus as the Son of God in the Flesh, and then denies Jesus’ Deity in most of the subsequent tenets.

Matt Slick #fundie carm.org

Not to long ago, I was in an atheist chat room for about half an hour where I was repeatedly insulted, told that I was stupid, that I couldn't think properly, mocked, cussed at, etc. It was the usual fare from the atheists. I remained calm and eventually asked the question, "Why do you atheists hate God?" I knew the question would get an interesting response. It did. Foul language, insults, lies, misrepresentations, hatred, condemnation, and more. But woven throughout the numerous insults was the most common answer: "We don't hate what does not exist!"

I replied by asking how they knew that God did not exist. I told them that if they could not give me some rational reason for denying his existence, then their position is held by faith. In that case, why would they condemn me for my faith in God? That, of course, did not smooth things over with the obstreperous atheists. One person said that the God of Scripture could not exist because, and I paraphrase . . . "how God set Adam and Eve up for failure, gets jealous, smites people, sends lying spirits, sends strong delusions, provides instructions for slave ownership, and Jesus told the slave to obey their slave masters." When I asked if other atheists agreed with the sentiment (I asked several times), not a single atheist of the 30 or 40 in the room responded in the affirmative; neither did they deny it. I repeatedly asked for affirmation or denial with not a single response. Instead, for some reason they became even more agitated and vitriolic. Then, it finally occurred to me that they confirmed that they really do hate God even though they deny he exists. Let me explain.

When you hate someone, you speak evil of him, say negative things about him, call him names, accuse him of wrongdoing, lying, etc. That is exactly what they were doing to me. So, I pointed out that they were expressing great hatred towards me. And, since verbal condemnations reveal how a person feels about someone, I pointed out to them that their same behavior aimed at God demonstrated their hatred for God because they often condemn the God of Scripture. I told them that I have visited their room many times and read and heard their numerous hate filled condemnations for the God of the Bible.

Of course, this did not go over well with them since more insults followed.

Now, I'm not saying every atheist does this, but I've noticed it is pretty common for them to say they "lack belief in God" or "don't believe he exists" and then site Old Testament Scriptures where God does what they think is morally reprehensible (which is funny since they have no objective and absolute morals by which to make such judgments). They complain, mock, and pronounce ethical condemnation against the God of the Bible . . . just like you would do to someone you hate. Hmmm . . . So, they really do hate God.

But I'm sure atheists would simply say they only attack the biblical concept of God. Okay, but if they are only hating a concept of what God is according to the Bible, then they are hating the God of the Bible. Simple.

So, do atheists hate the God of Scripture? Well, according to my experience in various chat rooms on the Internet with atheists, I have to conclude that their regular condemnation of God, their accusations of his immorality, speaking evil of him, etc., clearly demonstrates that they hate God.

Dr. Jaafar Sheikh Idris #fundie call-to-monotheism.com

Atheists are Polytheists!

An atheist is said to be someone who denies the existence of the Creator. This is a good definition, provided that we mean by it that the creator whose existence they deny is the only God ofreligion, the one true Creator. Otherwise, atheists do believe in creators, albeit they do not recognize them under that appellation. This is so because atheists, in their endeavor to find alternatives to God for explaining the existence of the temporal things we see around us, invent some imaginary entities and give them some of the essential attributes of God.

Thus materialistic atheists used to believe in matter as such a god. But this matter-god of theirs is not the matter with which we are familiar in our daily life; it is something that is eternal and everlasting, hence the statement, which used to masquerade as a scientific fact, "matter is neither created nor destroyed." But when you ask them to point this eternal and everlasting matter you discover that they are only chasing a will-o'-the-wisp. The matter that we can recognize and to which we can point is matter in the form of the large heavenly bodies, in the form of earthly physical things, and in the form of the constituents of these things: molecules, atoms, subatomic particles, photons, etc., none of which is eternal. Atheistic materialists used to believe in an eternal matter behind all such material things which come and go, but the advent of the "big bang" theory shattered all hopes in the existence of such matter. Scientists now believe that everything - matter, energy, even space and time - had a beginning. In fact they speak about a moment of creation of all these things.

Another such imaginary god is Nature (with a capital N). The nature with which we are familiar is the totality of natural things. But when we are told that Nature does this or that, as atheists are prone to say, we find ourselves at a loss. What is this Nature? If it be the one we know, how can it cause or create itself? But if it is something else, then we want to have proof of its existence.

The same applies to Evolution. Now evolution, scientifically speaking, is "[t]he gradual process by which the present diversity of plant and animal life arose from the earliest and most primary organisms." (Concise Science Dictionary) But the Evolution of the atheists is not this process; rather it is the agent which brings about the process. Only in this unscientific and imaginary sense can evolution take the place of God; otherwise, a believer who accepts the theory of evolution can easily reconcile it with his belief in God, by saying that that process is itself the work of the Creator.

There are, on the other hand, atheists who say in a misleading way that they believe in God; but on inspection, their god turns out to be the god of the atheists. I am referring here to people like Einstein, who is said by some to have been a believer, but whose god was in fact not God the Creator in whom we all believe. Einstein declared that he believed in "Spinoza's god," i.e. in a god that is identical with the universe, and who does not thus interfere from outside in its working. "The man who is thoroughly convinced of the universal operation of the law of causation, "says Einstein, "cannot for a moment entertain the idea of a being who interferes in the course of events." [Quoted by Hans Kung, Does God Exist? Vantage Books, 1981, p. 629]

Thus all atheists are in fact polytheists, or mushriks. A mushrik, according to Islam, is one who believes in a god or gods besides, or to the exclusion of, the one true God, or who worships such gods, even if he also worships the true God. That perhaps is the reason why the Qur'an never talks about atheists, but only about mushriks (or polytheists).

David J. Stewart #fundie jesus-is-savior.com

Are You Hateful Enough?

By David J. Stewart

Psalm 97:10a, “Ye that love the LORD, hate evil.”

[RIGHT]image[/RIGHT] The unsaved world discourages hatred in all forms, but the Bible teaches that there is a good form of hatred—hatred against evil. In fact, God commands it in Psalm 97:10, "Ye that love the LORD, hate evil." Sadly, most professed Christians today don't hate evil like they should. Hatred is a strong word and every Christian should have a strong feeling of dislike against evil that makes us want to do something about it.

Abortion

Every born-again believer ought to hate evil in every form; such as the evil of abortion (i.e., murdering little living and growing babies). Abortion is brutal and demonic. When one stops to realize that America silently passed the 50,000,000 abortion mark in January of 2008, it's hard to fathom that 25% of our U.S. population has been holocausted. The official U.S. population for 1970 was 203,211,926.1 Since 1970, Americans have killed one-fourth of their own children. Tearfully consider that in 2004, there were 74 abortions for every 100 births in New York City. Can you imagine?

We ought not hate the people getting abortions, nor the people performing abortions; but we must hate the evil of abortion itself. To deliberately kill a child is evil. When you think of the blessings in your life, you should praise God that your parents didn't believe in abortion. Sadly, a mother's womb is the most dangerous place to be in the world today. This is a sad fact. There's not enough hatred today against abortion. God tells us to hate abortion, because abortion is very evil. If you don't hate the sin of abortion, then you DON'T love the Lord Jesus Christ.

Hateful Heathens

Ironically, it appears that some of the strongest hatred today is against Bible-believing, Christ-honoring, Christians who do hate evil as the Bible teaches. Flaming homosexual, Ellen DeGeneres, criticizes Bible-believers who “use the Bible to justify their hate.” Uh, Ellen, Psalm 97:10 does teach believers to hate, to hate evil. Hatred for sin and evil can be justified with the Bible. Ellen calls such faithful Christians, “idiotic” ...

"I don't see full-page ads saying `Stop the Hate, Stop the Violence." said DeGeneres. "These same evil, idiotic, so-called God-loving people who use the Bible to justify their hate, I'm sure still feel deep down that blacks aren't equal to whites because the Bible was also used to justify slavery."

SOURCE: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3827/is_199810/ai_n8815714

It seems that Ellen DeGeneres has quite a bit of hatred herself toward Christians who hate evil, which brings a Bible verse to mind... Proverb 29:27, “An unjust man is an abomination to the just: and he that is upright in the way is abomination to the wicked.” An “abomination” is hatred coupled with disgust. To the righteous man, he not only views “Sin City” Las Vegas as evil, but as repulsive and disgusting. I think Hollywood (or Hollyweird) is an abomination. It's not just saturated with sin and evil, it's a disgusting place of sick-minded perverts and demented God-haters. Walt Disney employs some of the most sick-minded, perverted, immoral, sin-loving, Bible-hating, Christ-hating, blasphemous, people in the world. That's why their shows and movies are so abominable. Most of the movies and programs Walt Disney produces nowadays are utterly offensive to any decent person. There's no garbage pail that wreaks with the stench of rot and maggots anymore than Walt Disney, Hollywood and all the other heathen movies producers of this sinful generation. Even so, come, Lord Jesus! Pay Day is Coming!

Before the Apostle Paul became a Christian, he hated the Church and persecuted and tried to destroy it (Galatians 1:13). The Word of God brings out the best and the worst in people. You either love God or you are his enemy. People either love the Bible or hate it. Jesus said that the same world that hated Him, and crucified Him, would hate us and treat us the same horrible way. Increasingly, American society and nations abroad are becoming hostile towards Christianity. People who live contrary to the Word of God know it, and therefore hate the Bible intensely. Romans 1:18, "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness." The Bible says that the wicked "hold the truth in unrighteousness." In other words, they are sinning in full knowledge of what they are doing. Ellen DeGeneres KNOWS lesbianism is a sin, and is against nature, and is abnormal and will eventually bring the judgment of God. I do not hate anyone, please know that. I only hate sin. I love sinners, because they are people whom Jesus Christ died for to pay for their sins. God loves humanity, which includes sinners too. God hates sin and evil, but he is waiting for men and women to repent (2nd Peter 3:9).

Immodesty and and Lewd Behavior

Our love for Jesus Christ is easily measured by the intensity of our hatred for sin and evil. Most people take sin lightly nowadays. It means nothing for a professed Christian woman these days to put on a miniskirt or wear a low-cut blouse. These are the sinful clothing styles of the world. 1st Timothy 2:9 and other Scriptures teach that a Christian lady ought to dress modestly as an expression of her chastity and virtuous behavior.

Hollywood female celebrities dress like sleazy-trash, whores and bimbos. I'm not trying to be unkind, I'm being moral. It is a shameful disgrace the sinful way in which American women dress immodestly nowadays, wearing tight blouses, exposing their thighs, causing men to lust in adulterous thoughts, which is adultery (Matthew 5:28). To such whorish women, it's game, a thrill a tease. They will answer to God. God tells women to dress in "modest apparel." Christian ladies ought to hate immodest clothing. Dressing seductively in public is sinful. Women and girls ought to dress in modest clothing. This is what God says in the Bible. It's rare nowadays to find women who adhere to strict Christian dress codes. Ladies ought to wear dresses. We live in a sicko society that is trying to turn teenage girls into whores. Walt Disney makes teenage girls look like whores by moral standards 50-years ago. America has lost it's respect for God, morality, the marriage, decency and Christianity. Now we've got a Muslim U.S. President who despises Christianity and won't even salute the U.S. flag during the national anthem. Sad.

What Do You Hate?

Everybody hates something. A lot of people hate the Bible. A lot of people hate Christianity. A lot of people hate a righteous person. What we ought to hate is evil. Hatred against sin is good. The unsaved world will always demonize Bible-believing Christians who hate sin. The Devil has successfully built a false religion today, that encompasses many denominations who have been taught that any form of hatred is bad. This is simply not true. God commands us as His children to HATE EVIL. That means we should hate drunkenness, fornication, whorish clothing, homosexuality, government theft and violations of the U.S. Constitution. We ought to hate lying and false advertising and cruelty to animals. We ought to hate the heathen public school system, CPS who thinks they own our children and the evil sin of divorce. We ought to hate indifference and false religion. We ought to hate movies that curse in God's name, songs and books that diminish, attack and belittle the Bible. It's seems that every movie made today has to have someone cursing in God's name. Someone told me that they like the Sylvester Stallone movie, First Blood; yet God's name is taken in vain no less than 10 times throughout the movie. The movie is evil, of the Devil and dishonors God. I hate any movie that takes God's name in vain. God created us, feeds us, gives us the health and life we enjoy, and then people go around making movies that insult God, curse in his name in anger and show utter disrespect for the Lord. No wonder America is going to Hell in a wheelbarrow. We ought to hate when anyone takes God's precious and holy name in vain.

The Jews have some crazy little thing they do, spelling God as G_d, claiming that is their way of respecting God. Yet, in total hypocrisy, they opening reject Jesus Christ as their Messiah. They are effectively atheists, because they reject Jesus as God in the flesh (John 1:1-3.14; John 10:33; I Timothy 3:16; Colossians 2:9; Revelation 1:8; John 14:1-6). We should hate the false religion of Judaism, which denies Jesus Christ as the Savior, and teaches in their Talmud that it's ok for priests to molest 3-year old girls. Why doesn't Jack Chick ever expose the Jew's false religion instead of attacking the Muslims for everything. The Muslims weren't the masterminds behind 911. We ought to hate the New World Order, which aims to destroy Christianity, eliminate true American freedom (i.e., out Bill of Rights) and bring to fruition a Communist Police State to smash resistance from Christians, patriots and those who defend the U.S. Constitution. It's frightening how insane many people get when you hand them a badge, a gun and give them authority over the common man. Then stuff like this happens. There's a million punks running around America nowadays, called police, including she-men women who belong at home baking cookies, who don't care about your Bill of Rights. They just want to smash you, take your kids and force you to comply with the New World Order's Communist agendas. You're now guilty until proven innocent. You don't have to be proven guilty to go to prison nowadays, the jury simply needs to "think" you're guilty and you're a goner. And they call that justice.

Conclusion

I could write a book on all the evils and sins which born-again Christians should hate, but that is not necessary. You have a Bible and I hope you read it. Most Christians neglect their Bible and don't read it enough (if at all). Hearing the Bible increases our faith (Romans 10:17). In discouraging times, we need to read the Bible to boost our faith. In times of loss, when our friends hurt us, family betrays us and the Devil comes after us to kill, steal and destroy (John 10:10), we ought to spend more time in the Scriptures and rest upon the promises of God. God will keep His Word, His name is at stake. You can rest assure on the promises of God.

Let us hate evil and expose it wherever it is found. You don't have to be unkind to people, but you don't have to go along with the evil either. Professed Christians all across America go to Walt Disney, Las Vegas casinos, Jack Daniel's brewery, Elvis Presley's mansion, et cetera. There are all shameful places. The need of this hour is for Christians to act like Christians and get angry over sin, because the Devil's crowd doesn't care.

JBrentonK #fundie atheistforums.org

Let me be honest with you. This doesn't mean I won't be sad. Are you ready? Everybody that doesn't believe in God goes to hell. You must believe in God, or else you take your weakness with you to hell. It's actually true, as per the definition of God as the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob--- the only God. God sets up definitions for his belief: You must believe in him is one example. And you must. Since when does a god actually set it about that you don't get something for belief? The christian God sets it about that if you don't believe in him, hellfire is your punishment. And this does include agnostics too. The reason is evident: If you do not believe in God, you go to hell. Why be a person who claims an attitude of unbelief? To smite the creator, and intentionally choose to prefer a more just manner of conduct (which is impossible). When you intentionally choose the attitude of smiting the creator, knowing full and well that you will go to hell for your conduct, you are in danger of hell fire. And when you smite him for the last time and intentionally prefer hell fire, knowing full and well that God does not exist, you will actually go to hell.

After all, no God comes along and promises belief to his followers and doesn't promise hell fire for the disbelievers. The main reason I post to this website is to try and convince atheists that they are in danger of hell fire. And the reasons that they have for being believers is interesting. Does crossless believe that he is a signifigant enough atheist to warrent the behaviors I have described as the only ones that are christian, and embraces an attitude of hatred against the creator? If he does, he is in danger of hell fire, and should read this post before he does anything else.

John Mark N. Reynolds #fundie patheos.com

Can you be moral without God?

Of course you can, if by being “without God” one means not believing God exists. One can breathe without thinking air exists, after all. Humans are very good at denying the existence of a thing they need and use. I have known many moral atheists and have learned important lessons about living a good life from a few of them. Obviously, you can deny the existence of God and still be a very decent person.

Can you be moral without God?

Of course you cannot, because God exists (and reasonable people know He exists) so that there is nothing a person can do without God. The attribute of omnipresence rules out doing anything God isn’t around to experience.

I think what the question probably means: is God a necessary component in living a moral life whether you acknowledge Him or not? God might be helpful in living a moral life by telling you when you are making moral mistakes for example, but is He necessary?

He is.

This is true for three basic reasons: His sustaining us, His law, and His revelation.

First, God sustains our very existence as beings. He is by definition “the ground of being.” There is nothing we can do without His involvement. He is and so we are. Because we are free will beings, God is not the primary reason for our decisions, but He is the overarching cause for our having free will and minds capable of choosing.

Second, God has created the world with natural and moral laws. We can discover both types of laws without referring to God and even use them to fly a plane or feed the poor. Our choices determine which we do, but it is God that created and sustains both types of laws.

I am not suggesting that God intervenes constantly to prop up the cosmos and morality. He exists and permeates the cosmos and the moral universe. He sustains, but He does more than sustain. He undergirds meaning and value. Our moral choices matter because He exists to provide the absolute standard of goodness. He has, in all fullness, the property of goodness and so becomes the standard by which all goodness can be measured.

God is also all knowing, including what might have been if we had chosen differently. We can measure the outcome of our moral choices based on this knowledge, but only God could reveal such truth to us. The cosmos is so complex that such knowledge would be too wonderful for us without His revelation.

Divine revelation is necessary for complete morality because being moral is (in part) unknowable. The universe is so complicated and our passions so messed up by our brokenness that we need God to tell us aspects of the moral law that would otherwise escape our notice.

As Aristotle pointed, out morality is not usually dealing with actions that are always wrong. Sane humans agree with the moral law that it is always wrong to torture people for fun. Fortunately, most of our moral dilemmas do not deal with such terrible choices.

Most actions we take are moral if not done too little (defect) or too much. Sometimes the outcome determines the morality of the action. For example, it is not immoral in itself to eat, but one might eat immorally! It is easy (for me!) to imagine eating too much and being a glutton or too little and becoming Scrooge about food. If God does exist and is not silent in our lives, then divine guidance would be necessary to live a fully moral life with confidence.

We might not ever be perfectly moral, but we should aspire to such goodness. Knowing how to love the people around me is not just more hopeful with God, but is possible. That we (almost always) fail (some great saints come close to success) does not mean that possibility isn’t there.

Best of all, God is not merely “good,” but goodness implies mercy and love for His broken children. We have chosen badly and only God can help us (whether we see it or not) do good with any consistency. Thank God for God!

Don Batten #fundie creation.com

Recently, I have had a lot of conversations with atheists. Many express a strong hatred of God. I have been at a loss to explain this. How can you hate someone you don’t believe in? Why the hostility? If God does not exist, shouldn’t atheists just relax and seek a good time before they become plant food? Why should it matter if people believe in God? Nothing matters if atheism is true.

Aldous Huxley (1894–1963), the brother of the atheistic evolutionist Sir Julian Huxley, advocated a drug-fuelled utopia. He gave the reason for his anti-Christian stance:

If God does not exist, shouldn’t atheists just relax and seek a good time before they become plant food? Why should it matter if people believe in God?

“I had motive for not wanting the world to have a meaning … the philosophy of meaninglessness was essentially an instrument of liberation, sexual and political.”1

Like Huxley, some people don’t like God because they don’t like moral constraints—you can make up your own rules, or have none at all, if God does not exist. They hate God and Christians because they are actually not confident that God does not exist and seeing Christians may remind them that they are ‘suppressing the truth’ (Romans 1:18).

What about atheists who had a church/religious upbringing? Some of them hate God because of evil things done to them by teachers in religious schools or by church leaders—people who on the face of it represented God. Antipathy towards God is an understandable reaction, sadly (although illogical).
Some atheists complain of Christian ‘intolerance’ in speaking about hell. But if those who spurn God’s forgiveness will suffer God’s wrath, as the Bible teaches, shouldn’t we Christians be warning everyone about the danger and how they can be saved? How is that ‘intolerant’?

Many complain about hell; they are angry at God because of hell. I understand that teachers in certain church-based schools, and parents in some ‘religious’ homes, commonly used the ‘fear of God’ to make children behave. “You are bad; you will burn in hell if you don’t behave.” But such a simplistic works-oriented approach not only trivializes this most serious of subjects, it negates the Gospel of God’s grace. (We are all ‘bad’ in God’s eyes, and ‘behaving properly’ will not save us—only Jesus can.)

A child who is having difficulties may well conclude that there is no way out for them, leading to years of nightmares about suffering in hell. Such a troubled teenager hearing an atheist say that evolution explains how we got here and that God is a myth2 could find this to be a liberating message, a release from their fears.

The Gospel (good news, see p. 41) is missing from all this. The Bible tells us that God is in the business of salvation. Though His wrath regarding sin is all too real (as seen in the Fall and Flood judgments; pp. 12–14, p. 15), we need not suffer it. Those who come to Him in repentance and faith will not be turned away (John 6:37). See also pp. 32–34.

“For God so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.” (John 3:16)

It is strange that people hate God, who loves so much.

Some atheists complain of Christian ‘intolerance’ in speaking about hell. But if those who spurn God’s forgiveness will suffer God’s wrath, shouldn’t we Christians be warning everyone about the danger and how they can be saved? How is that ‘intolerant’? It would be extremely unloving not to tell others of this. A gift of Creation magazine might be a good place to start.

RejectedDreams #fundie rejecteddreams.deviantart.com

How many times have you heard someone say:"I'm a Christian but..." and then say something unbiblical?
While in their own mind this person might feel the belief they hold is correct, but when compared to what the Bibles teaches-they are in serious conflict and error. So if you are a Christian, yet any of the following sounds like something that you would say;then you need to start paying more attention to what God tells us in His Word and not what the world and its popular opinions say.

Here are a few of the more common "I'm a Christian but..." statements:

-I believe that God used evolution to create life slowly over time.
-I believe that humans evolved from apes or had an ape-like ancestor millions of years ago.
-I believe humans are animals.
-I believe the great flood of Noah is just a story, and never actually happened.
-I believe the Bible isn't to be taken literally.
-I believe the Bible is just a book of stories or fairy tales.
-I believe the Bible is not actually the words of God.
-I believe the Bible was written only by humans;God was not involved.
-I believe the Bible has been rewritten so many times we can't trust it.
-I don't think the Ten Commandments apply to us today.
-I think the church needs to be more "tolerant".
-I believe the Bible has to be updated to fit our modern society.
-I believe some words/messages in the Bible have been changed or "mistranslated".
-I don't think that homosexuality is sin.
-I support homosexual rights.
-I support homosexual "marriage".
-I believe "love is love", regardless of gender.
-I don't have a problem with abortion.
-I don't believe that hell is real.
-I don't believe that God would send anyone to hell.
-I don't believe Satan or demons are real.
-I believe in Wicca.
-I believe in a "mother earth" type of spirit.
-I believe in reincarnation.
-I believe in ghosts("spirits" of dead humans).
-I don't have a problem with witchcraft.
-I think Halloween is just harmless fun.
-I think certain books/movies/games/TV programs that involve witchcraft are harmless fun.
-I don't have a problem with TV programs that blaspheme the name of God or Christianity.
-I think all pornography is normal.
-I think the ACLU is a good organization.
-I believe there are "many paths" to God.
-I believe there is more then one way to find salvation.
-I believe all religions/beliefs serve the same god.
-I think all religions/beliefs are equal.
-I believe God is whatever you want Him/her/it to be.
-I think truth is whatever you want it to be.
-I don't know if God really exists.
-I believe everyone is going to Heaven in the end.
-I believe there is no actual "right" or "wrong".
-I think having sex outside of marriage is perfectly fine.
-I think having sex with someone is okay, just as long as you "love" them.
-I think it's okay to live together with a person and not be married.
-I think divorce is a good thing.

Dennis Lopez #fundie dennislopez.com

I recently watched a video posted by a YouTuber by the username of “Truth96130,” that is basically telling people Hell is not real and that it is a lie of the Devil that works for his benefit. Yes, seriously, Truth96130 really believes this. In the video a renowned and once respected Pastor by the name of “Carlton Pearson” claimed that God told him Hell is not real. I watched the entire video and gave it the complete chance to convince me that his claim was true. What it did convince me of is what the Bible had already warned me about, thanks to Jesus. I will demonstrate to you, the reader, with Bible verses that you can go look up yourself (not my philosophy), and the words of Jesus himself, how this claim is a full-fledged doctrine of demons.
“Now the Holy Spirit tells us clearly that in the last times some will turn away from the true faith; they will follow deceptive spirits and teachings that come from demons.” (NLT, 1 Timothy 4:1)

This verse by itself should be sufficient evidence for anyone to see that the “Hell doesn’t exist claim” is a trick of the devil to deceive those who are not strong with the Holy Spirit. The Bible warns us of false doctrines, false Prophets, and false Messiah’s. Did Pastor Carlton test the spirits? Did he pray on it and ask God, Jesus, or the Holy Spirit for confirmation? I don’t think so, and neither did Truth96130. The devil is known for offering people things (sinful things) for instant gratification and happiness. God on the other hand is always patient and long-suffering, doing things at the right place and time. There is usually a lesson learned through a journey before you receive something from the Lord.
“Dear friends, do not believe everyone who claims to speak by the Spirit. You must test them to see if the spirit they have comes from God. For there are many false prophets in the world.” (NLT, 1 John 4:1)

Then you have Jesus telling you himself about hell, are the words of Jesus not sufficient? Truth96130 gave no credit to what Jesus said, and said that Jesus spoke in parables which are not historical events. So only the historical things that Jesus spoke about have value and not parables? Are you kidding me? Jesus was teaching lessons about Heaven and Hell, why would it need to be something that happened? Besides, hypothetically it was happening, people were going to Heaven and Hell after death.
It’s these type of people who cherry pick and choose what is convenient to fit their lifestyles, so that they can continue to do what they know is sinful and not feel convicted of it. They are only tricking themselves, but the worst part is they are trying to take others with them! (See Figure 1)
“So ignore them. They are blind guides leading the blind, and if one blind person guides another, they will both fall into a ditch.” (NLT, Matthew 15:14)

I refuse to let that happen, God ordered us to be the salt & light of the world.
“You are the salt of the earth. But what good is salt if it has lost its flavor? Can you make it salty again? It will be thrown out and trampled underfoot as worthless. “You are the light of the world—like a city on a hilltop that cannot be hidden. No one lights a lamp and then puts it under a basket. Instead, a lamp is placed on a stand, where it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your good deeds shine out for all to see, so that everyone will praise your heavenly Father.” (NLT, Matthew 5:13-16)

Here is another lesson about Heaven and Hell from Jesus Christ our Lord and savior.
“Jesus also told them other parables. He said, “The Kingdom of Heaven can be illustrated by the story of a king who prepared a great wedding feast for his son. When the banquet was ready, he sent his servants to notify those who were invited. But they all refused to come! “So he sent other servants to tell them, ‘The feast has been prepared. The bulls and fattened cattle have been killed, and everything is ready. Come to the banquet!’ But the guests he had invited ignored them and went their own way, one to his farm, another to his business. Others seized his messengers and insulted them and killed them. “The king was furious, and he sent out his army to destroy the murderers and burn their town. And he said to his servants, ‘the wedding feast is ready, and the guests I invited aren’t worthy of the honor. Now go out to the street corners and invite everyone you see.’ So the servants brought in everyone they could find, good and bad alike, and the banquet hall was filled with guests. “But when the king came in to meet the guests, he noticed a man who wasn’t wearing the proper clothes for a wedding. ‘Friend,’ he asked, ‘how is it that you are here without wedding clothes?’ But the man had no reply. Then the king said to his aides, ‘Bind his hands and feet and throw him into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ “For many are called, but few are chosen.” (NLT, Matthew 22:1-14)

Straight from the mouth of Jesus! This teaching illustrates how God sends his messengers and prophets to invite us to be saved, and to accept his Son, Jesus. We are constantly being invited to Heaven. The Bible is always referring to us (The Church) as the body of Christ and the bride of Christ, which is why this parable is about a wedding banquet for the King’s Son. The King being (God), the Son being (Jesus), the servants being (The Angels, Prophets, and Messengers), and the banquet representing (Heaven). I will let you guess who the invitees are.
Pay attention to the keywords, the servants were sent to notify “those who were invited.” This means not everyone is invited, so where do the uninvited go? I’m pretty sure they go to Hell. Let’s not forget “For many are called, but few are chosen,” that pretty much proves that some are chosen and some are not; meaning, some will go to Heaven and some will not.
Let’s continue on, the initially invited (The Israelites) rejected Jesus as the Messiah, some (The Pharisees) went as far as to kill him. From the beginning of the Bible all the way up to revelations, everyone that God has sent to warn humanity (His Prophets & Messengers) has been murdered or rejected all the way up to Jesus Christ and beyond. That covers the portion of parable talking about the invitees rejecting the invitation and some going as far as to murder the servants. Well, what about the King sending an army to destroy and burn their town?
I am glad you asked, throughout the Bible God turns his back on his people (The Israelites) when they reject him and rebel against him by doing such things as worshiping idols, breaking the commandments, and basically breaking their covenant with him. God removes his protection from them and even goes as far as to send other nations to attack them, as he did with King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon. (The destruction and burning of the town also represents the end times in revelations). Of course, he was merciful and gave his people ample time to turn away from their sins and repent.
Moving on, the king sending his servants to invite everyone good and bad represents how the sacrificial death of Jesus enables everyone to be able to go to Heaven, without having to perfectly follow the Law of Moses. God knew we wouldn’t be able to do it. The Law of Moses was nothing more than just a long-term lesson to show us that even when facing the penalty of death and similar penalties, we would still break the law. He basically showed us that Humanity cannot govern itself without the help of God. We would need more than Laws, we would need a change of heart, and we would need the Holy Spirit.
Finally, the man not properly dressed illustrates how those that accept Jesus Christ (The Invitation), but continue to live in constant Sin, can lose their salvation. Just because you accept Christ does not mean you are guaranteed to go to Heaven, it’s only the start of your salvation. The Bible doesn’t say to run the race and fight the good fight for nothing. Now, Outer darkness, weeping, gnashing of the teeth, does that sound like Heaven to you? I think Jesus was speaking in a gentle fashion instead of being blunt and giving it to us straight; however, there is scripture which is not so nice, and for a good reason.
“And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go into eternal life.” (NLT, Matthew 25:46)

Eternal means nonstop, no breaks, forever, everlasting. Some people try to claim it’s just the second death, meaning you don’t get eternal life, but clearly the scriptures say different. You get eternal life, but it’s not the type of eternal life anyone would ever want. This is why God designed this life to be experienced in time. Things in time begin and end. This teaches us what eternity is. That is how just and fair God is.
“They will be punished with eternal destruction, forever separated from the Lord and from his glorious power.” (NLT, 2 Thessalonians 1:9)

If there is no Hell, how can sinners be punished in eternal destruction or separated from the Lord? Where will they go if they can’t go into Heaven?
“Throwing the wicked into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (NLT, Matthew 13:50)

“If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It’s better to enter eternal life with only one hand than to go into the unquenchable fires of hell with two hands.” (NLT, Mark 9:43)

“But there were also false prophets in Israel, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will cleverly teach destructive heresies and even deny the Master who bought them. In this way, they will bring sudden destruction on themselves. Many will follow their evil teaching and shameful immorality. And because of these teachers, the way of truth will be slandered. In their greed they will make up clever lies to get hold of your money. But God condemned them long ago, and their destruction will not be delayed. For God did not spare even the angels who sinned. He threw them into hell, in gloomy pits of darkness, where they are being held until the Day of Judgment.” (NLT, 2 Peter 2:1-4)

That last verse is just blatantly clear that we will all pay for our sins, and that Hell exist, period! It is true that you can pay for your sins on Earth, but only to a certain extent. God knows that we will not be ultimately perfect without sin,
“Not a single person on earth is always good and never sins.” (NLT, Ecclesiastes 7:20)

“As the Scriptures say, “No one is righteous–not even one.” (NLT, Romans 3:10)

But this does not give you the green light to do whatever you want to. God’s mercy, grace, and forgiveness are determined and given accordingly. God knows when you are trying not to sin, compared to when you really don’t care and are trying to fall through the cracks. We should strive to have as little sin as possible, remember God knows what is in our hearts. He can see if your desire is not to sin, but you fall to it not by deliberate will, but by the evil we all inherited from Adam & Eve, there is a difference.

The devil knows this, which is why he uses clever lies to deceive people. Of course he will tell us that our sins are forgiven through Christ, so it doesn’t matter what we do once we accept Jesus, and OH’ yeah by the way, Hell doesn’t exist. That is not what the true Word of God tells us. The “There is no Hell” claim is a doctrine of demons, there is no doubt about it. If Hell isn’t real then why did Jesus go down to Hell for three days to console the spirits that were imprisoned there?

“Christ suffered for our sins once for all time. He never sinned, but he died for sinners to bring you safely home to God. He suffered physical death, but he was raised to life in the Spirit. So he went and preached to the spirits in prison, those who disobeyed God long ago when God waited patiently while Noah was building his boat. Only eight people were saved from drowning in that terrible flood.” (NLT, 1 Peter 3:18-20)

Truth96130 claimed that I am confusing the time of this verse. The verse above clearly states that Jesus went to preach to the spirits in prison (Hell) that disobeyed God during the time of Noah, basically all the people who died in the great flood; which by the way, is historically recorded in every culture around the world. If there is no Hell and I am confusing this verse, which I am obviously not, then why didn’t these same spirits go directly to Heaven? Why does the Bible say they are in prison? Why doesn’t the Bible simply say, “Jesus swung by the Prison (Hell) to bail these Spirits out?” Now let’s say there is no Hell, why are these Spirits in prison? What is this prison?
If you go back to (NLT, 2 Peter 2:1-4) which I mentioned earlier, you will see “For God did not spare even the angels who sinned. He threw them into hell, in gloomy pits of darkness, where they are being held until the Day of Judgment.” Key sentence “where they are being held,” doesn’t that coincide perfectly with the spirits in prison! You know, prison, jail, being held captive, I don’t know about you, but it sure makes sense to me. This is the perfect example of scripture backing up scripture. As the saying goes “the writing is on the wall,” and let’s not forget about the parable of Lazarus and the rich man. (See Figure 2)
And his soul went to the place of the dead. There, in torment, he saw Abraham in the far distance with Lazarus at his side. (NLT, Luke 16:23)

When I mentioned this to Truth96130 his response was, “well that’s just a parable, and it’s not a historical event.” That statement does not in no way, shape, or form prove that Hell is not real, in fact it diverts from the fact that Jesus used a parable to teach a lesson about Hell. Keyword, “lesson,” Let’s look at the definition of the word parable.

Parable –
A short allegorical story designed to illustrate or teach some truth, religious principle, or moral lesson.
A statement or comment that conveys a meaning indirectly by the use of comparison, analogy, or the like.
Well there you go, a parable is designed to teach a lesson of truth. Just because it’s not a historical event does not mean it is not true. I recommend reading the entire chapter of Luke 16. All words out of the mouth of Jesus, let me remind you. Over and over again in the Bible Hell is spoken about, illustrated, and re-cautioned to those that would believe, keyword believe. The Devil would love for people to not believe in Hell, that way people would just live how they feel and do what they want without having to worry about the repercussions.
Finally, Pastor Carlton and Truth96130 argue that God is love and he wouldn’t do these things to us. I mean how could an all loving merciful God send his people to eternal torture, right? Well once again, directly from Bible verses and not my philosophy, I will show you how God is justified in everything he does. He is the genuine holder of truth, he sets the standards, and he uses fair scales, weights, and balances. We would like to believe we know more than God, we would like to believe our ways are just, we would like to believe we can replace his laws with our own, but the truth is God is the Creator and we are the created. God set the laws of the universe, not us. Who are we but mere mortals.
“For just as the heavens are higher than the earth, so my ways are higher than your ways and my thoughts higher than your thoughts.” (NLT, Isaiah 55:9)

Do we really expect to have the same mental capacity as the entity that created us and the Universe? Seriously? If that were the case then why would we even need God at all? We would be just like him, which is the exact claim the devil made before he was found with sin and casted out of Heaven. The devil claimed he would be like the most high.
“I will climb to the highest heavens and be like the Most High.” (NLT, Isaiah 14:14)

The created cannot expect to comprehend and know as the creator.
“How foolish can you be? He is the Potter, and he is certainly greater than you, the clay! Should the created thing say of the one who made it, “He didn’t make me”? Does a jar ever say, “The potter who made me is stupid”?” (NLT, Isaiah 29:16)

Furthermore, as I tried to understand why God would send people to Hell for not meeting his qualifications, I learned some important truths. God has a standard, the one and only true balance of justice, and he will not break it for anyone. He will not be a hypocrite and break his word. Anyone who breaks the law is subject to the consequences, even the Angels.
Example of Truth: Anyone that is truly honest with pure integrity would understand that it is justified for their child to go to prison for murdering someone. Only hypocrites and people without standards would argue different.

People that go to Hell choose to go to Hell. People that go to Heaven choose to go to Heaven. (See Figure 3) God did not make us robots, he gave us self-awareness. I ask the reader, what has more value? A living being that was programmed to be righteous, or one that wasn’t but chose to be and now is? (Causality) There is a reason for everything, which is not just a “saying.” You might not agree with the reason, but who are we to tell God what is and is not fair. I am 100% sure if Jesus Christ disobeyed God, God would have sent him to Hell too.

Another misconception is that it doesn’t bother God to send people to Hell. That is a lie of the devil. The same way it hurts parents to discipline their children with the rod, it devastates our Father to sentence us (his children) to Hell. God does not enjoy this which is why he sacrificed his only Son.
“For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.” (NLT, John 3:16)

“The Lord isn’t really being slow about his promise, as some people think. No, he is being patient for your sake. He does not want anyone to be destroyed, but wants everyone to repent.” (NLT, 2 Peter 3:9)

There is no excuse, we are warned and given a lifetime to get it right.
Then comes the question? We’ll if God is all loving and merciful then why does he let such suffering happen on Earth? That one is easy. There is suffering on Earth because we have free will to do what we want to, and some of us want to continue to do evil things. Some of us want to follow the devil instead of God. Some of us love sin more than we love our creator.
“And the judgment is based on this fact: God’s light came into the world, but people loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil.” (NLT, John 3:19)

People judge God and they never even get to know him. We’ll what about the good people who have bad things happen to them? Why doesn’t God protect them? First of all, what good people? We are all born evil.
“For I was born a sinner–yes, from the moment my mother conceived me.” (NLT, Psalm 51:5)

We inherited evil from Adam & Eve. We have to be taught to be good. We have the knowledge of good and evil, but without the help of God we will always favor evil. We are self-serving and self-gratifying.
“For they loved human praise more than the praise of God.” (NLT, John 12:43)

Also, remember we are not just facing people with free will that choose to be evil. We are facing our adversary the devil, and we are also facing spiritual battles in the unseen world around us.
“We know that we are children of God and that the world around us is under the control of the evil one.” (NLT, 1 John 5:19)

“Stay alert! Watch out for your great enemy, the devil. He prowls around like a roaring lion, looking for someone to devour.” (NLT 1 Peter 5:8)

“For we are not fighting against flesh-and-blood enemies, but against evil rulers and authorities of the unseen world, against mighty powers in this dark world, and against evil spirits in the heavenly places.” (NLT, Ephesians 6:12)

And that my brother’s and sister’s is why there is pain and suffering in the world. Jesus made it very clear that we will suffer in this world, so why not suffer for him instead? Why not suffer to make it to the pearly gates?
“And all nations will hate you because you are my followers. But everyone who endures to the end will be saved.” (NLT, Matthew 10:22)

“Students are not greater than their teacher, and slaves are not greater than their master. Students are to be like their teacher, and slaves are to be like their master. And since I, the master of the household, have been called the prince of demons, the members of my household will be called by even worse names! (NLT, Matthew 10:24-25)

“Yes, and everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.” (NLT, 2 Timothy 3:12)

Jesus did not promise life without problems once you start following him. He tells no lies and gives it to us straight. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is not about infinite happiness in this life, but it is about trials and tribulations leading to infinite happiness in the afterlife. Jesus never said we had to be perfect, nor does the Bible. The Bible tells us to turn away from Evil, stride to change; and most importantly, to ask God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit to help us do it. We are incapable of doing it on our own. So make no mistake of misunderstanding that only perfect people make it to Heaven, which is another lie of the devil. Name one person in the Bible, besides Jesus, that didn’t sin. You can’t do it. Do not try to earn your salvation, instead embrace it. Salvation is a gift from God, it is meant to be received and maintained.
“Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it.” (NLT, Ephesians 2:9)

Believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God who sacrificed himself on the cross so that we can be forgiven for our sins, become reborn and move forward from there, and know that hell is a real place. Fear the Lord of Heaven’s armies and respect who he is.
“Fear of the LORD is the foundation of true knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and discipline.” (NLT, Proverbs 1:7)

“Fear of the LORD is the foundation of wisdom. Knowledge of the Holy One results in good judgment.” (NLT, Proverbs 9:10)

God can take our mistakes and help us correct them, he can help anyone, anywhere, anytime get back on the course he designed for them. It is never too late to turn to God through Jesus Christ. Simply lift your hands up to God and repeat “Jesus I repent of my sins and I accept you as my Lord and savior, Amen.” Then seek the kingdom first, read the Bible, continue to pray, and always talk to Jesus looking for guidance and answers, and remember we have the Holy Spirit to help us through it all.

“But when the Father sends the Advocate as my representative–that is, the Holy Spirit–he will teach you everything and will remind you of everything I have told you.” (NLT, John 14:26)

“Seek the Kingdom of God above all else, and live righteously, and he will give you everything you need.” (NLT, Matthew 6:33)

I encourage all my readers to fact check me, go look for yourself and make sure that I am not misleading you. Make sure that I am speaking from the lessons of the word of God and not from my own philosophy. Make sure that I am not twisting the word of God. I also invite my readers to comment and share your opinions down below in the comment section. May the Lord of Heaven’s Armies Bless you all!

I am currently reading and quoting from the New Living Translation version of the Bible.

The Beast of Revelation #fundie amazon.com

In reality, the proof of God's existence is so abundant and obvious as to be undeniable by any rational person. The world in which we live clearly would not exist except for an omnipotent God.

The only reason why atheists believe that God does not exist is that they want to believe that. Their belief is not based on evidence that God does not exist, nor is it based on a lack of evidence that He does exist; their belief has no basis. It has only motivation. The atheist has psychological motivations for believing that God does not exist.

All of the reasons that atheists claim to have for their atheism are really just rationalizations. They had a desire to believe that God does not exist; when they finally found arguments that could allow them to deceive themselves into believing that he does not exist, they did so. The people became atheists after engaging in self-deception.

All of their arguments are really self-delusion.

Atheism is very common among homosexual men; this single fact proves that psychology, not evidence, is the cause of atheism. One can not rationally argue that homosexual men have more evidence that God does not exist. Thus, atheism must be the result of psychological motivation.

Of course, in addition to homosexuality, paranoia and fear of authority result in atheism.

God's existence is manifest and evident. The proof of God's existence is far too plentiful to be denied by any normal person. Therefore, only an individual who has an abnormal psychology can possibly be an atheist.

These are all established facts about psychology. No rational person ever disputes them.

David J. Stewart #fundie jesus-is-savior.com


I believe with all my heart that God is disgusted and saddened about what Christmas has deteriorated into in the minds of MOST people. I sincerely believe that God hates Christmas in America. Christmas has become so synthetic, so phony, so meaningless.

It's a mad rush by businesses after Thanksgiving to make as much money as possible before Christmas day. Christmas has sadly become VERY commercialized in America. Money, money, money! Christmas isn't supposed to be about spending and giving, it's about the birth of Jesus Christ. It's about God's free gift of eternal life to a world of undeserving sinners. We all deserve to burn in Hell for our sins, but God in His wonderful love provided a way of escape for mankind, a plan of redemption. God wanted to redeem man back to Himself. So God sent His only begotten Son into the world to be rejected of men, despised, spit upon, beaten, mocked, tortured, bound and ultimately crucified to death as a criminal.

Oh that people would seek the truth. Santa Claus is a mockery of the Savior, who knows everything and can be everywhere at one time. Interestingly, Santa spells S-A-T-A-N if you rearrange the letters. Coincidence?


X-mas Has Become a Favorite Holiday of the Wicked Unsaved
Tragically, nearly all of the people celebrating Christmas aren't even saved. Most of the people observing the Christmas season don't know the Lord as their personal Savior. Even atheists celebrate Christmas by renaming it "X-MAS."

"Independence Day" is much longer than "Christmas," yet no one ever calls it "X-Day." "Thanksgiving" is much longer than "Christmas," yet we never call it "X-giving." Why is it that out of all the holidays in America, the ONLY place where people feel compelled to place an "X" is over our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. It is blatant evil. If you are reading this article and love the Lord Jesus, make sure to speak aloud to any business that displays the godless term "x-mas."

If it weren't for Santa Claus, reindeers, mistletoe, sparkling ornaments, tinsel, and a bunch of meaningless silly songs... the heathen world would abandon Christmas like a hot-potato.

So do you think that God Almighty is pleased with a holiday that EXCLUDES Jesus Christ? No way! God hates Christmas. And may I say again, there is NOTHING in the Word of God which leads us to recognize the birth of Christ in any way.

By the way, the Bible never lead anyone to recognize Mary in any way either. The entire Catholic religion is based upon the humongous lie that people are supposed to praise and adore Mary. Just as a child with candy all over his face who denies going into the candy jar, so are Catholics found guilty when they claim they don't worship or pray to Mary while continually bowing to her image and statue. The truth cannot be denied... Catholics worship Mary!

[...]

Christmas has become a joke in America. If we took all the money spent on Christmas trees, tinsel, ornaments, wrapping paper, snowmen, flashing lights, and everything else imaginable... we could literally feed millions of people in several starving third-world nations.

Are we really celebrating Jesus' birthday? Don't you think it would mean much more to God if you helped someone for Christmas instead of decorating your home inside and out? Sure it would. We are nuts in America! We go out of our way to teach children in the public school system the importance of recycling soda cans, while never a word is said about reducing the number of abortions. It's "save the whales, murder the children." Americans spend BILLIONS of dollars spoiling their dogs and cats at home, while people starve to death around the globe (2.8 BILLION people on this planet live on less than $2 per day). That's about half the population!

[...]

Satan Claus Has Come to Town!

Santa Claus the Great Imposter

The Plain Truth About Christmas (it's Babylonian occult origins)


Biblically, Jesus couldn't have been born in December (see the above article, The Plain Truth About Christmas). I am not against celebrating Christ's birth, not at all. I am against the Satanic deceptions which the Devil's crowd has integrated with Christ's birth to manufacture the worldly holiday of Christmas.
Santa Claus became extremely popular when Coca Cola really began promoting him in the 1940's. Today, Santa has replaced Jesus in the minds of most children. Ask any child what they know about Jesus, and then Santa, and see what answers you get. Most children know a lot about Santa from singing all the songs about Santa, but there are no Christmas songs for children which describe the Lord. The world's Christmas songs are designed to instill a picture into the child's mind of "WHO" Santa is.

Tragically, Santa is an exact clone of the Lord Jesus Christ. Children are taught that Santa (Not Jesus) watches them all the time, knows if they're bad or good, and will reward them if they are good. Children do believe these lies of Satan. The FACT that the U.S. Postal Service receives millions of letters each Christmas addressed to "Santa Claus" is proof enough of this fact.

God does NOT make a big deal out of Christmas and I think we would be wise to do the same. In fact, God does not make an issue of it at all. If God was concerned about us celebrating Jesus' birth, then He would have given us a date or time to celebrate, but He didn't.

I think God hates Christmas for many reasons:

1. The greed of Christmas. Let's face it, Americans alone spend billions of dollars just on Christmas.

2. The massive amount of money spent on decorations while the poor go hungry. Christmas to most people is all about having fun.

3. The heathen formalism of false religions like Catholicism. God doesn't care about mass or the seven sacraments...NOT AT ALL! God wants you to call upon Jesus to forgive your sins and come into your heart. God wants your heart, not religion.

4. The "give to get" mentality of most people. It's really quite sickening as I listen to all the Christmas music. Santa Clause is the hero of Christmas, not Jesus Christ. "What's Santa going to bring me?"...gimme, gimme, gimme!

5. The wicked diminishing of "Christmas" to "Xmas." This is so wrong! I see "Xmas" everywhere I go. Should it be any surprise that Christ would be removed from a holiday which centers around commercial greed.

6. Christmas charity is not righteousness. Just because you give some charity away at Christmas doesn't bring you one bit closer to God unless you have come through the blood of Jesus Christ. Your good works are filth to God (Isaiah 64:6). You need to ask Jesus to forgive you of all your wicked sins.

7. Worldly Christmas parties. All across America at Christmas time, booze flows and the whores take off their clothes. Every company I have ever worked for has invited me to their godless Christmas party. To date, I have never gone to one of them (and never will). All I hear afterwards is reports of nudity, booze, worldly entertainment, and immorality. No thanks Satan, I'll stay home with Jesus!

8. The utter hypocrisy of people. Everywhere you go throughout December in America, you will hear Christmas music. Openly homosexual singer, Elton John, has a Christmas album. Homosexuality is an abominable sin according to the Bible! Radio stations play his music all across America. When sinners living in wicked rebellion against God sing Christmas praises, do you think God is pleased? I tell you, God is extremely angry! (Psalm 7:11). God has no pleasure in the song of fools (Ecclesiastes 7:5). You'll hear "Holy, holy, holy" one song, and then godless Michael Jackson the next. The radio-waves at Christmas time are filled with the most ungodly and reprobate heathens singing Christmas songs...it is a horrid STENCH in the nostrils of God.

It is for these reasons and others that I believe God hates Christmas. God is angry with the wicked every day (Psalm 7:11). God is not pleased by a child-murdering nation. God is not pleased by a nation that invades innocent countries to steal their oil (Iraq). God is not pleased by a nation that loves witchcraft (Harry Potter). God is extremely angry with America for her many sins. We are a woeful people in need of God's judgment.

What right do we have to celebrate Christ when we spit on the Bible and disobey the plainest teachings in the Bible... "Thou shalt not kill." Some sinners even mock God by making a joke of abortion at Christmas time... see Planned Parenthood's "Choice on Earth" (instead of the Bible's "Peace on Earth"). America needs a serious whipping from God!

If you truly want to celebrate Jesus' birthday, then do it quietly without making the retailers richer. Use that money to help the poor. Jesus is in Heaven today, He wants us to help the poor. Don't be like the wicked world who only give ONCE a year, we should give to the poor at all times. Is it nothing to you?

Rational Christianity #fundie rationalchristianity.net

Does God force us to worship him by threatening us with hell?

If God were truly forcing us to worship him, 99-100% of the world's population would be Christian. Obviously, this is not the case, so perhaps God's intention is not to force us after all. Many people reject Christianity and even the notion of God, so clearly we have the freedom to believe God and hell don't exist. If God meant to force everyone to worship him, he would not have allowed people to doubt his existence or coming judgment.

But suppose that one believes God exists and will throw those who don't worship him into hell. When the scenario is depicted as a choice between flattering a despot or torture, it seems that one is unethically forced into worship. In reality, the choice is between choosing to do good by loving God and following him, or choosing to reject God and do evil. One is rewarded for doing good and punished for doing evil, but this is not necessarily coercion. In society, people are punished with fines or incarceration for doing wrong, yet no one would say that we're forced to obey the law; in fact, many choose to commit crimes, even when there is a great chance they'll be caught. In many other situations, people choose to receive immediate gratification despite knowing there will be negative consequences later. People get drunk, knowing they'll have a hangover the next day; students have fun during the weekend instead of doing homework, knowing they'll get bad grades on Monday; people conscious of their weight indulge in foods that are delicious but also fattening. In each case, there is a clear choice: self-gratification now and unhappiness later, or self-discipline now and reward later.

Coercion is more than the existence of a negative consequence: it is a threat or an irresistible force that causes a person to do something they would not have done otherwise. If someone becomes a Christian because they come to know Christ and want to follow him, they aren't being forced into that choice; they may not have even thought about hell. On the other hand, if someone becomes a Christian because they're afraid of going to hell, their position is similar to that of a child who doesn't do wrong because he's afraid of being caught and punished by his parents. Is the child being coerced? Technically, he's making a choice he wouldn't otherwise make because of fear. Ideally, he would do the right thing because he wanted to; but if the only way to motivate him to do the right thing is by threatening punishment, better that than his doing the wrong thing. Similarly, worshiping God is the right thing to do, and is in our best interests, and God would rather we come to him out of love instead of fear. If nothing else will get us to do the right thing, fear is a last-resort motivator. However, as there are people who freely choose not to worship God, and others who choose to worship out of a genuine desire to do so, it's clear that God is not forcing us to worship him.

cdevidal #fundie godlikeproductions.com

EvolutionVsGod.com has a free 38 minute film in which various evolutionists such as a PhD/associate college professor of Anthropology at UCLA, a PhD/professor of biological sciences and anthropology at USC, a PhD/professor of ecology and evolutionary biology at UCLA and PhD/associate professor of biology at Universiy of Minnesota Morris/famous blogger PZ Myers appear to be stumped by some challenging questions. It's an interesting movie and I recommend you check it out.

In observing responses to the movie, I saw lots of evolutionists mocking but I didn't see one person who answered the questions that apparently stumped the evolutionists. Accusations began to fly: The claim is that in his previous films, the evangelist had edited responses to questions to make the interviewees look bad. Thus the claim is that the stumped evolutionists in this film had simply been edited unfairly.

To which I replied, "OK, I'm sure we'll see a statement from PZ Myers soon explaining how he was misrepresented*, but what about you? Can you answer the questions?" The response often was, "What were the questions?"

Me: "I hadn't written them down so I didn't recall them. But you can see them again if you watch the movie."

Them: "No, I'm not watching that (blankety-blank)." (Which sounds dishonest, but I'll let that pass for now.)


* PZ Myers did claim he was misrepresented: [link to freethoughtblogs.com] But without substantiation. If he gave fuller answers during the interview, I'd like to see them, but he did not: [link to www.google.com (secure)]


So I promised to write down the questions from the film. And by the way, I don't pass any judgment on the quality of these questions. Maybe they're fallacious, and you can help demonstrate that. But before you answer, some simple rules to keep everyone honest.

RULES
* You must give a direct answer to every question or you've failed. Yes, some questions appear to be repeats but please answer them all as they are all slightly different.

* If you give an answer such as "It's not possible to know that" (or something similar) to any question you fail to demonstrate the validity of your worldview. Try harder before posting.

* You agree to the principles in this flowchart or you've failed: [link to www.jacoballee.com]

* You may not commit any logical fallacies or you've failed. Here is a list of some well-known fallacies. [link to www.informationisbeautiful.net] There may be others that I am not currently aware of.


If you don't agree with these rules, don't answer. If Darwinian macro evolution does occur in nature, these questions can be answered without resorting to cheating or underhanded rhetoric to uphold it. Right? I'm sure you'll agree these are fair rules.

Items beginning with an asterisk '*' are questions, and items beginning with an equal sign '=' are important statements which do not require an answer, but which inform the next question, so they must be read and understood.

OK, go!


= "Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence." ~Richard Dawkins

= "Live Science" says of Darwinian evolution: "It can turn dinosaurs into birds, apes into humans and amphibious mammals into whales."

* Do you believe in evolution?

* Do you think it's a belief?

* When did you start to believe?

* Are you a strong believer in evolution?

= A scientific method is based on "the collection of data through observation and experimentation..." ~Science Daily

* Could you give me some observable evidence that evolution is true? Something I don't have to receive by faith. Remember, events that occured 65 million years ago can't be observed. If you say "fossil record," please be specific: Give one example.

= "We are condemned to live only for a few decades and that’s too slow, too small a time scale to see evolution going on." ~Richard Dawkins

= "We see nothing of these slow changes in progress, until the hand of time has marked the lapse of ages..." ~Charles Darwin

* You've got the the canine 'kind' with the coyote and the domestic dog, and there's the feline 'kind' which is the cats, the tiger and the kitten and you've got humankind. So, Darwin said there would be a change of 'kinds' over many years so could you give me one example of observable evidence of a change of 'kinds'? I don't want something I have to accept by faith. I want it to be observable. I don't want to have to have faith in the experts, I want to observe it myself. Can you give one example of observable evidence of a change of 'kind'?

* Did we have lungs or gills when we came out of the sea?

* The scientific method must be observable and repeatable, so could you give me one piece of observable evidence for Darwinian evolution, not adaptation or speciation, but a change of kinds? If you say "stickleback fish", you must specify what other 'kind' have they become. These have remained as fish. Remember, Lenski's bacteria are still bacteria. The Galapagos finches are still finches. Their change in beak is adaptation, not Darwinian evolution. There's no different animal involved. I want something which shows me Darwin's belief in the change of kinds is scientific. Can you give me anything that I can see, observe, and test, which is the scientific method, for Darwinian evolution which is a change of kinds, so that I don't have to exercise faith?

* If you cannot offer any observable evidence for Darwinian (macro, change in 'kind') evolution, how do you know it's true?

* No professor or biology major in the film was able to give observable evidence of a change in 'kind'. Therefore, Darwinian evolution (a change in 'kind') is un-observable. You need millions of years. If Darwinian evolution is not observable, is it scientific?

* You're trusting that the biology majors and professors know what they're talking about and they can't even give evidence of a change of kinds. Do you realize that's called 'blind faith'? Remember, "Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence." ~Richard Dawkins

* Do you believe in intelligent design?

* How would you make a rose? A rose has a seed so you've got to start from nothing. Could you make a rose from nothing?

* No professor or biology major in the film was able to claim they were able to make a rose from nothing. For the purposes of this thread, I am going to assume you cannot, either. So if you say there is no intelligent design, where does that leave you on the scale of intelligence if you can't even make a rose?

= "The coccyx vertebrae is an extremely important source of attachment for tendons, ligaments and muscles..." ~Laser Spine Institute

= For years, the appendix "...was credited with very little physiological function. We now know, however, that the appendix serves an important role in the fetus and in young adults... Among adult humans, the appendix is now thought to be involved primarily in immune functions." ~Scientific American

= My note: This link discusses erector pili/most body hair and male nipples. [link to www.livescience.com] As a married man I have found a use for male nipples. If you know what I mean. (Ahem.) And I can certainly see that the organ would likely be present on a baby in the womb before its sex is selected with hormones, as the genetalia are identical before selection. Erector pili/most body hair I'm not so certain about. It's hardly earth-shattering evidence but I would like to read more. The first thought that comes to mind is that they're useful for sweat and a slight amount of warmth.

* So could you give me an example of vestigial organs? (I believe it is implied he is asking about human organs.)

* Skeptic websites often examples of famous atheists in an attempt to win converts. But more often than not, the famous personalities cited are not atheists. Aside from Earnest Hemingway (listed in the video), Can you think of any famous atheists which you can validate have never made a statement attesting to their belief in a deity? (At 18:32 in the video, quotes from Abraham Lincoln, Carl Sagan, Mark Twain, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Charles Dawrwin show clearly they are/were not atheists. For the sake of brevity I will not list them here.)

= No professor or biology major in the film was able to give an example of a famous atheist. Ray said, "It is important to know that even though some of these men claim to believe in God, that doesn't mean they are believers in the one true Creator revealed in the Scriptures, or that they're genuine Christians. However, when atheists use theists or agnostics to promote their godless agenda, they're being dishonest. Then again, coming from those who claim that morality is relative to each person, convenient dishonesty should not be a surprise."

* Do you believe in moral absolutes?

* Is rape always wrong?

= PZ Myers essentially answered yes, so the evangelist stated therefore there are moral absolutes.

* So who makes the rules?

* PZ Myers stated that we make the rules. I am going to assume you will say the same. If you did not, no need to answer this question, just ponder it: So if Hitler made the rules and he had the majority, he makes the rules?

= "Evolution is a very harsh and cruel process." ~PZ Myers

* Did Hitler put into practice survival of the fittest? Such as the lion eating the antelope.

* Your pet dog (or insert other beloved pet) and your rotten neighbor are drowning. You can only save one of them. Which would you save?

* The biology majors all chose to save the dog. I am going to assume you will say the same. If you did not, no need to answer this question, just ponder it: So you think dogs are more valuable than human beings?

= "Any fetus is less human than an adult pig." ~Richard Dawkins

* If you believe in evolution it's just a matter of survival of the fittest. Your neighbor's a primate and you've got a canine, and you like the canine more than you like the primate. If the grouchy neighbor drowns, he drowns. Survival of the fittest. Would that be correct?

* Are you an atheist who thinks God doesn't exist?

* An atheist in the movie stated that after we die we cease to exist. Ray Comfort said, "If you were a car and your motor were turned off that would be right, that's inanimate. But you're a living, biological human being with the life of God in you. .. Is there no life in you?" Atheist: "Yes there's life in me." "That's your soul." If you agree with the atheist, how do you know?

* Are you a good person? If there's a heaven, will you make it there?

* How many lies have you told in your whole life?

* What would you call me if I told lots of lies? You'd call me a liar, wouldn't you?

* So what does that make you if you've told lies?

* Have you ever stolen anything in your whole life even if it's small?

* That's called theft. So what are you?

* Have you ever used God's name in vain?

= That's called blasphemy, and it's very serious to use God's name as a cuss word. One atheist said he doesn't believe in God so it's not blaspheming. Ray responded, "Well, if I don't believe in certain laws and still violate them, ignorance of the law is no excuse. So we're still guilty even though we deny a law exists or even don't know about it."

* Jesus said that if you look upon a woman with lust in your heart you've committed adultery. Have you ever looked at another person with lust, such as with pornography?

= If you answered yes to those questions (and I don't know anyone who honestly can't answer anything but yes, myself included), to quote the evangelist, "then by your own admission you're a lying, theiving, blasphemous adulterer-at-heart, and that's only four of the Ten Commandments. Just not believing in hell won't make it go away. A judge must see that justice is done if he's a good judge, and it's the same with God. If we die in our sins God will give us justice. The Bible says that no theif, no liar, no fornicator, no blasphemer, no adulterer will inherit the kingdom of God. So if you died in your sins but God gave you justice, because He's holy and perfect morally, you'd end up in hell, and I'd hate that to happen to you."

* Would you sell one of your eyes for one million dollars? Both for 100 million dollars?

= Most would say "no." Your eyes are precious to you. How much more precious is your life?

= "Now let me tell you something you know intuitively. You know that creation is proof of the Creator, God has given you that inner light. So when you look at the genius of God's creative hand, you know God exists because of creation, and the reason you choose evolution is because it gets rid of moral accountability. Evolution lets you believe that lust and theiving are just primal instincts; You're just an animal. The Bible demands moral accountability and says those things are wrong and that's why it's not acceptable to you. That's why you're not seeking after truth. Am I wrong?" ~Ray Comfort (The biology major sighed, paused, and said, "I think you're wrong.")

= "You are a unique human being, made in the image of God with a sense of justice and truth and righteousness. God gave you a conscience. It's inherent. It's shaped by society but it's inherent. You know right from wrong. You've violated His law and I don't want you to end up in hell."

= To a struggling college student: "James, if you put your finger on it, and see if we can, your struggle at the moment is because of your love for sin, because of the pleasure that sin gives you and you don't want to give it up. You're like a man with a money belt filled with gold who's just fallen into the ocean. I'm saying, if you don't get rid of that belt which weighs 80 pounds it's going to take you under. Doesn't matter how much pleasure it gives you, it's not worth losing your life for."

= To a college professor: "You're not a beast. You're a human being created by God in His image with dignity and worth and purpose."

* Do you know what God did for guilty sinners so we wouldn't have to go to hell?

= "God became a human being 2,000 years ago, Jesus of Nazareth, and He suffered and died on a cross, taking the punishment for the sin of the world. You and I violated God's law and Jesus paid our fine. That means God can legally dismiss our case because of the suffering, death and resurrection of the Savior. God can say, 'You're out of here' because someone paid your fine." ~Ray Comfort

= "And then what God can now do is clothe us in the righteousness of Christ, so on Judgment Day you're safe from God's wrath and His justice, because of the death and resurrection of the Savior. If you repent and trust in Him, God will give you a righteous standing in His eyes. He'll wash away your sins in an instant, and He'll grant you everlasting life. His last words on the cross were, 'It is finished.' In other words the debt has been paid. He came to take our punishment upon Himself. So because our fine was paid by another, God can legally dismiss your case." ~Ray Comfort

* Does that make sense? (He was not asking if they believed it, just if the statements made a logical connection.)

* When are you going to die?

= "God knows the exact moment of your death. It could be today, it could be tomorrow. I'm not using scare tactics, this is just straight reality. 150,000 people die every 24 hours, and they were no doubt all making plans for next week, so please think about this." ~Ray Comfort

= "I'm not talking about a religion that says you have to strive to get to heaven, I'm telling you that the Bible says heaven is a free gift of God. You cannot earn everlasting life, doesn't matter how religious you are, how good you are. 'God commended His love toward us in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.' And then he rose from the dead and defeated death." ~Ray Comfort

= "This is how the Bible puts it: 'For by grace are you saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.' So eternal life is a free gift of God, and it comes because of God's mercy not because of anything we do." ~Ray Comfort

* Does that make sense?

= "I've been reading the Bible at home for over 40 years. There's no mistakes in it. Any mistakes that we think are in it are our mistakes, and you can trust God's Word. Think of how you trust professors and science books that tell you you're a primate? You trust and believe that so how much more should you trust a God who cannot lie?" ~Ray Comfort

* Are you going to think about this?

= "Soften your heart. Don't have so much blind faith in what science tells you and it's left you without any knowledge of what was in the beginning anyway. You haven't got a clue where you come from, you don't know what you're doing here on earth and you don't know what happens after you die."

* Could you be wrong about God's existence?

= An atheist responded, "Yes, but could you be wrong about God's existence?" "No." "Well then I think you're rather closed-minded." "Well if I said to you, could you be wrong about your wife's existence you'd say, "No, I know her. Don't be ridiculous. I know her and love her. And I know the Lord and I love the Lord, and He transformed my life 41 years ago, instantly, overnight, forgave my sins and gave me new desires when I had no desires or thoughts of God for the whole 22 years before I was a Christian."

= "The problem with those who are unable to see evolution, I think, is they don't have imaginations." ~Gail E. Kennedy, PhD, Associate college professor of Anthropology at UCLA

= "Human beings are still fish." ~PZ Myers

* Are you a talking primate?

* Are you a cousin of bananas?

= "I'm accepting that they did their science correctly." ~Biology major

= "I'm going to trust what those experts did, those experts came up with." ~Physics major

= "Darwinian evolution rests on faith. And once again, according to Richard Dawkins, 'Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence.' Darwinian evolution requires great faith. The knowledge of God, however, is clearly seen by all mankind. 'For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools.' (Romans 1:20-22)" ~Ray Comfort

Note to newcomers Despite the name, this is not a Christian website. It is simply a good forum for discussion because one does not need an account to post. (You can remain anonymous.)

David J. Stewart #fundie jesus-is-savior.com

[Re. the 2007 film, Bridge to Terabithia]

This movie is straight from Hell. To no surprise, they even deny the existence of Hell in the movie. While riding in the back of a pickup truck, Jess and Leslie begin talking about Hell. Jess is portrayed as being brainwashed, and believes that those who don't believe the Bible go to Hell. Leslie openly states that she doesn't believe people go to Hell for disobeying the Bible, arguing that God is too busy maintaining His creation to have time to, in her own words, DAMN PEOPLE TO HELL. Please keep in mind that this movie is targeted towards the youth, and clearly sends out a blasphemous message that open-minded people don't believe in Hell.

The entire movie is rooted in animosity against Christian churches, families, and beliefs. At one point in the movie, Leslie suggests that she would like to go with Jess to church on Sunday. Leslie is wearing pants, so Jess makes the statement... "Women aren't allowed to wear pants in our church." Leslie sarcastically responds by stating that she does own some dresses. At church, the old familiar hymn is sung, The Old Rugged Cross. It is shortly after this scene that Jess and Leslie are discussing Hell in the back of the pickup truck. Leslie makes the statement to Jess... "You believe what you believe because YOU HAVE TO, and hate it; I believe the same thing because I want to and it's so beautiful." Do you see the trickery in her words? She claims to believe the SAME thing as Jess, but she just denied God's judgment upon sinners, by refusing to believe that God would damn anyone to Hell. Clearly, she doesn't believe the same thing as Jess, but is made to appear as the wiser.

Terabithia Film Claims God Too Busy To Send Anyone To Hell

The Bible warns us in Proverbs 14:12, “There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.” Many people cannot grasp the reality of an angry God Who casts people into a burning Lake of Fire and brimstone, but that's exactly what the Bible teaches in Revelation 21:8, “But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.” Brimstone is sulfur. I don't know about you, but I'm not going to bet against God's Word. Here's some of the film's script, teaching children that God is too busy to send anyone to Hell...

Large excerpt from the Bridge To Terabithia script

As you just read, the Christ-rejecters at Walt Disney have much contempt and hatred against Christianity. Laura points to the trees and nature around her when she says “He's too busy running all this” in the preceding quote. God is not TOO busy! The Lord is not pressured, constrained by a demanding schedule or too busy to send people to Hell. Along with their support of gay-rights, Rock music and premarital sex, Disney refuses to believe that the Bible is true; specifically concerning the existence of a real Hell that burns with fire and brimstone, where Christ-rejecters will spend eternity (Revelation 20:11-15).

Walt Disney thinks they know better than the holy Bible—indoctrinating children to question, deny and hate the Bible for proclaiming the truth that God casts sinners who die in their sins into the Lake of Fire for all eternity. The Bible warns that anyone who died IN THEIR SINS (John 8:24) will be tormented, suffering God's angry vengeance (2nd Thessalonians 1:8-9; Romans 5:9). You had better obey the gospel, by believing the Bible's good news that Christ died for your sins, was buried and miraculously raised-up after three days. In fact, Laura in real life would have plunged straight into the fires of Hell in her unbelief! Hell is filled with liberals, Modernists and freethinkers who despise and reject the Word of God. God commands all humanity to repent, it's not an option!

Got Questions #fundie gotquestions.org

Question: "Does God hate shrimp?"

Answer: The essential argument of GodHatesShrimp.com is that we should not condemn homosexuality as a sin based on the Old Testament because the Old Testament also refers to eating certain kinds of seafood (including shrimp) as an abomination, yet Christians do not have any problem with eating shrimp or any of the other forbidden foods. Does the "God hates shrimp" argument have any validity? Yes and no.

First, it is important to note that the title "God hates shrimp" is a reaction to a particular group of anti-homosexuality protestors that are famous for promoting the saying "God hates fags." The argument is that if God hates homosexuals, based on the Old Testament Law, then God equally hates those who eat shrimp. The Bible nowhere says that God hates homosexuals, however. There are lists of things that God hates in the Old Testament (see Proverbs 6:16-19), and homosexuality does not make the list. Yes, homosexuality is a sin, and yes, God hates sin. But again, the Bible nowhere says that God hates homosexuals, or that homosexuality is any more difficult for God to forgive.

Back to the "God hates shrimp" argument - is it valid? Yes and no. First, a Christian should never make an argument exclusively using the Old Testament Law. Jesus fulfilled the Law, ending its requirements (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23-25; Ephesians 2:15). If you use the Old Testament Law as the sole argument for homosexuality being a sin, you should also declare that everything the Law outlaws to be sin: eating shrimp, wearing clothing of mixed fabrics, sowing different types of seed into the same field, etc. No, Jesus fulfilled the Law. Christians are not bound by the Old Testament Law, but rather are to be subject to the Law of Christ (Matthew 22:37-39; Galatians 6:2).

So, if the Old Testament Law cannot exclusively be used to argue for homosexuality being sinful, why then do Christians believe homosexuality is sinful? The answer is that the New Testament also clearly and explicitly states that homosexuality is both immoral and unnatural (Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9). The New Testament confirms the Old Testament command against homosexuality, explains why the command existed, and argues for why homosexuality should continue to be considered sinful. What then about shrimp? Does God still hate shrimp? No. Jesus Himself "declared all foods clean" (Mark 7:19). Jesus later confirmed this in a vision to Peter (Acts 10:15). While the New Testament confirms that homosexuality is sinful, it clearly indicates the food laws to be null and void. God never hated shrimp. Rather, God disallowed the consumption of shrimp to distinguish the Israelites' diet from that of the surrounding nations, and likely due to the fact that since they are bottom-feeders, shrimp are really not very healthy.

What should be learned from the "God hates shrimp" argument is that we should use the word of God consistently, "rightly dividing the word of truth" (2 Timothy 2:15, NKJV). As New Covenant believers, we are not to use the Old Testament Law as the exclusive basis for our morality. Rather, we are to study the whole counsel of Scripture and live accordingly.

David J. Stewart #fundie jesus-is-savior.com

That's right, Madalyn O'Hair was NOT an atheist! Shocked? An atheist by definition is: Someone who denies the existence of God. From O'Hair's own statements, it is clear that she DID believe in God, very much so, and she hated Him with a passion...

"We find God to be sadistic, brutal and a representation of hatred."

SOURCE: THE ATHEIST, by Bryan F. LeBeau, pg. 85 (a response from the self-announced "Maryland Atheist" to a Life magazine editorial)

You can't express utter contempt for a God Who doesn't exist. Madalyn O'Hair hated God and the Bible. It's irrefutable evidence against any professed "atheist" who curses in God's name, talks about how much they hate God, and spends their life attacking a Person that allegedly "doesn't exist." No one hates God as much as professed "atheists." Madalyn Murray O'Hair was no atheist. Her very hatred for God manifested her belief in God. Madalyn O'Hair was consumed with hatred and anger against a God that she claimed didn't exist.

...

"Mad Madalyn" lived out her professed atheism. No atheist should be ashamed of her and her profane life and words, for she was the epitome of every professed "atheist." She lived a reckless life of self-indulgence, wickedness and rebellion against the God of the Bible. No one curses God more than professed atheists. Truthfully, there is NO such thing as a genuine atheist, only wannabes, i.e., people who prefer to live as if there is no God in their unrepentant minds.

Ultimately, O'Hair's bad company brought her own tragic demise and that of her precious family...

"The dismembered bodies of Madalyn Murray O’Hair, Jon Murray and Robin Murray were found in January of 2000 in Camp Wood, Texas. One of the killers, David Waters, led the authorities to the site in return for a guarantee he would serve his time in a Federal rather than in a Texas state prison. He died of prison of liver decease in 2003. A second killer was sentenced to live in prison."

SOURCE: http://www.wjmurray.com

Madalyn liked hiring unrepentant, convicted felons — disobedient, lawless, reprobate persons — and one of them ending up stealing $54,000 from her and killing her. Her Mercedes, her mansion, and her fine liquor took her down that Highway to Hell way that so many people foolishly choose to go down.

Madalyn Murray O'Hair is America!

Ken Ham #fundie answersingenesis.org

Can Dawkins Disprove God in 5 Steps?

Can the idea of a Creator God be easily dismissed in just five steps? Well, atheist and anti-theist Richard Dawkins certainly thinks so!

He recently appeared on a Norwegian-Swedish television show called Skavlan where he quickly dismissed the idea of God by ticking off on his fingers five arguments for God.

Dawkins starts by equating God with fairies, and then says that “the onus is not upon an atheist to say why there is not something, the onus is on a theist to say why there is.” Well, Dr. Richard Dawkins, the onus will actually be on each person on judgment day when he stands before God. And no excuses will be enough when we stand before Him. In the end, every person will bow before Christ and acknowledge Him as Lord (Philippians 2:10–11). You can either do so voluntarily now or by compulsion later.

Dawkins then says that “there simply are no reasons for the existence of a God.” But, of course, this doesn’t mean there actually aren’t any reasons for God’s existence. It simply shows his anti-God bias. He then mentions a few of the common arguments used to demonstrate that there is a God.

Design Exists Because of Darwinian Natural Selection?

Dawkins begins with the argument from design. Now, Scripture is clear that everyone is without excuse for not believing in God because His creation clearly shows that He exists (Romans 1:20). But Dawkins dismisses the powerful argument from design in nature simply by saying that we should expect design because that’s what Darwinian natural selection does, “it makes them look as though they’re designed.” According to Dawkins, “Darwin has exploded once and for all the argument from design.” Dawkins recognizes that things do look designed, but says that the most likely explanation, a Designer, isn’t the case—natural selection simply does it. But what he never explains is how natural selection—a process that only works by decreasing or re-shuffling existing genetic information—is supposed to add the massive amounts of new information that are required to get the complexity we see today from a simple single-celled organism over millions of years. How do you get from simple pond scum to highly complex people without adding massive amounts of new genetic information? You can’t!

People Hallucinate or Are Fooled?

Dawkins next dismisses personal testimony by saying that people hallucinate or are fooled with relative ease. Now, subjective personal experience does need to be weighed carefully (see 1 Thessalonians 5:21), but what I would like to ask Dawkins is the same question Bill Nye was asked during our 2014 debate: where did consciousness (which is needed for our experiences) come from? Nye was at a loss to explain this “great mystery” as he called it and Dawkins likely would be too.

Of course, God’s Word tells us exactly where consciousness (and everything else!) came from—God Himself (Genesis 1:27, 2:7). And, furthermore, in a godless world, how do you even know what truth really is when you have no objective standard for determining truth? Who is to say who is right and who is wrong? As Pilate asked Jesus, without God and His Word, “What is truth?” (John 18:38). And if we are just random chemical accidents, why should we trust anything that comes from our brain anyway? If Dawkins’ worldview is true, then he can’t trust anything that comes from his brain either! It’s ultimately a self-defeating argument. We can only know what truth is because there is a God and He has ordered this world and has given us His Word.

If God Is the First Cause, Then Where Did God Come From?

Next is the argument of the first cause. This argument, in a nutshell, states that everything must have a cause, including the universe. Now, Dawkins dismisses this argument by saying that if God is the first cause, then where did God come from? Frankly, it’s a silly response. God is outside of space and time—in fact, He created these things. He didn’t have a beginning and He will have no end (Psalm 90:2). And if there was someone who created God, then it would be a bigger God, and then a bigger-bigger God would need to create that God, and then a bigger-bigger-bigger God would need to create that God, and so on to infinity. This is silly. If He needed to be created, He wouldn’t be God. But God doesn’t need a Creator; He is self-existent.

Darwin Explains How We Got Here Without God?

Dawkins then explains that Darwin shows how everything got here without the need for God. But Darwin was simply wrong because everything we see in observational science confirms the history of the universe from God’s Word, not Darwin’s ideas—kinds reproduce according to their kinds; we don’t see new genetic information being added to produce brand-new features; life only comes from other life, never from non-life. Life did not originate by itself; it was created by our all-wise Creator.

Pascal’s Wager a Silly Argument?

Lastly, Dawkins addresses the so-called Pascal’s wager, which says that it’s better to believe in God, live a godly life, and be wrong when you die than to reject God and die and go to hell. He says that this is a “silly argument” and that there is no way of knowing if you’ve bet on the right god or not. But I submit that only the God of the Bible makes sense of this world. God alone has left us a coherent Scripture that does not contradict itself and is historically and scientifically accurate in all it says.

But Dawkins does get one thing (sort of) right in his short video in reference to Pascal’s wager. He says that perhaps the God of the Bible would not prefer someone who “slavishly pretends to believe something.” Scripture is clear that God sees the heart, not external signs of worship or belief (1 Samuel 16:7). No one will get to heaven by “slavishly” pretending to believe in God. Salvation only comes by truly believing and trusting in Jesus Christ and His work on the Cross to pay for our sin debt (Romans 10:9–10). That’s the good news of the gospel—salvation is a free gift to those who will put their faith in Christ.

My heart breaks for people like Dawkins who are utterly lost and who, unless they repent and believe in Christ, will face an eternity separated from God in hell. All of their seemingly clever arguments against God will amount to nothing when they stand before His judgment throne. If you are like Dawkins, or even if you believe in God but have not trusted in Christ for salvation, I encourage you to listen to the good news and believe in Christ and be saved.

Thanks for stopping by and thanks for praying,
Ken

This item was written with the assistance of AiG’s research team.

Vincent Cheung #fundie vincentcheung.com

This is a summary of the biblical doctrine of hell. Some of the items below are vehemently opposed by many people, including those who call themselves Calvinists and Reformed Christians. They are so proud of their stance on divine sovereignty, but their doctrine is a severely weakened and compromised version of what the Bible teaches, and I have refuted them in various places.

1. Hell is a place created for reprobate spirits, both angels and men.

2. Hell is a place whose inhabitants are sovereignly and unconditionally chosen and created by God for damnation.34

(Footnote 34: Any condition that seems to correlate with God's reprobation of an individual has been sovereignly decreed to be part of that individual by God in the first place. A person is chosen for hell not by (or on any condition determined by) his own "free" will (which does not exist), but by God's sovereign will, which also sovereignly decrees and actively supplies all the conditions that God himself considers proper and necessary, such as sin and unbelief.)

3. Hell is a place in which God exacts non-redemptive but vindictive punishments upon its inhabitants.

4. Hell is a place in which God actively causes endless, conscious, and extreme torment for its inhabitants.

5. Hell is a place in which God displays his justice, righteousness, wrath, and power, and through which he glorifies himself.

6. Hell is a place that God has sovereignly created, and everything that God does is right and good by definition; therefore, it is right and good that God has created hell.35

(Footnote 35: We find an analogy in the existence or creation of evil. Although evil is evil (evil is not good), since evil exists only because God has actively and sovereignly decreed it (not passively or permissively), therefore it is good that there is evil. In other words, evil is evil (evil is not good), but God's decree is good – that is, his decree that evil should exist by his active will and power. Evil is evil and not good, but God did nothing wrong in decreeing evil; he did a right and good thing in decreeing evil. Likewise, God did a right and good thing in creating hell and in sovereignly, actively, and unconditionally predetermining the damnation of the reprobates.)

7. Hell is a place that God has sovereignly created, and through which he glorifies himself; therefore, it is sinful to disapprove of or be repulsed by its existence or purpose in any way.36

(Footnote 36: It is right and proper to consider and discuss the topic with fear and trembling, knowing the severity and power of God, but it is wrong and sinful to consider and discuss the topic in a way that implies disapproval of or repulsion toward hell, as if to say that God did something wrong in creating it. To disapprove of or be repulsed by hell is not a sign of compassion, but a sign of rebellion that desires human welfare and comfort even apart from faith and holiness, and apart from dependence on the grace of God.)

8. Hell is a place that God has sovereignly created, and through which he glorifies himself; therefore, it is right and good to offer reverent and exuberant praise and thanksgiving to God for its creation, existence, and purpose.

9. Hell is a place that God warns about in Scripture, and that Christ preached about in his ministry on earth; therefore, it is right and good for believers to preach about hell, and to preach about the only way to avoid it, which is faith in Jesus Christ, sovereignly granted by God to those whom he has chosen for salvation.

10. Hell is a place that God has predestined for the reprobates; therefore, although it is right and good to preach the gospel to all men, so as to summon the elect and harden the reprobates, it is wrong and sinful to preach as if God sincerely desires the salvation of the reprobates or as if it is possible for the reprobates to receive faith and be saved.37

(Footnote 37: This refers to the so-called "sincere offer" of the gospel.)

The Interactive Bible #fundie bible.ca

Does God Really Exist?
We should understand from the beginning that God's existence is completely unaffected by man's opinion of Him. Man's denial does not lessen the reality of God's existence, nor does man's belief prove that He is. Many have let others turn them from a belief in God, without carefully studying all of the evidence in the case.

But Where Shall We Begin?

If God has revealed Himself in nature, then in nature there must be some trace of God. If God has revealed Himself in the Bible, then we must also examine its Pages for whatever proof of God we can find. Let's first turn to nature in our search, and then we shall turn to the Bible. Let's start with the world that is already here, and the life that already exists. Our world and the life that is therein must have had an origin. There must have been a time when these things first came to be, for their presence cries out for an explanation.

Many theories have been advanced, but what is the most logical explanation? It is generally understood by all that the world has not always been there. How did it get here? Was it created, or did it evolve from something else? If it was created, who created it? If it evolved, from what did it evolve, and how do you account for such a process? There was a time when something had to appear which never before existed, or something has always existed. If something once appeared which never before existed, what was it? What caused it to appear? If something has always existed, what was that? Was it life, or was it matter? If it was matter, then life came out of non-life. How did this happen? What explanation can be given for such a unique occurrence?

Life, as we know it, brings forth life. Man, an intelligent being, with his scientific knowledge, and under the best of laboratory conditions, has tried, but has been unable, as yet, to produce life from non-life. Is it thinkable, then, that, somewhere along the way, non-intelligent matter, by itself, and without any help from any intellect, once brought forth life from non-life? Is this a plausible explanation for the beginning of life? This spontaneous generation of life coming from non-life would be by far a greater miracle than any we have ever heard of.

On the other hand, if it was life that always existed, then there must have always been a Supreme Being! Shall we say, "In the beginning God created", or "In the beginning matter brought forth life"? Which is more reasonable to believe?

Could the world have come into existence by accident or chance? This would be mere assumption, and an unreasonable one at that. Someone has said, "It would be just as logical to believe that Webster's Unabridged Dictionary resulted from an explosion in a print shop, as to believe that the world came into existence by chance or coincidence".

What about the process of evolution? Again, we are back to the same question, namely, what was the beginning of such a process, and what caused the process to start? There just had to be a beginning, and with what did the world begin? Where did that, from which everything else evolved, come from in the first place? The theory of evolution is not a satisfactory explanation. The disbeliever has more difficulty in rejecting God than the believer has in accepting Him. The disbeliever must assume three times more than the believer, for he assumes that such a thing as matter existed, that force existed, and that force acted upon matter; whereas the Christian has one premise upon which he builds his faith, namely, that an eternal God brought about life and all things.

Some have discarded a belief in God on the ground that they have never seen Him, nor has He appeared to them through any other of the five senses. On the same ground, what about a man's mind? Has anyone ever seen a man's mind? Can you prove through any of the five senses that man has a mind? To rule out God on this ground would be to rule out the fact that man has a mind. In the same way, it is not possible to prove a mother's love by using a slide-rule or a computer, but the fact that such things cannot be proven in this way does not show that they are not true.

Since God created the universe and all of the natural laws which govern the universe, it is obvious that God himself is not limited or bound by any of these laws. Matter, regardless of circumstance, is bound to respond to the Law of Gravity, but God is not limited in such fashion.

Since scientific proof in the commonly understood sense depends for its evidence upon the fact that all matter is subject to natural law, it is clear that

we would not use the same approach in proving the existence of God as we would in working a problem in physics, any more than we would prove the existence of a mother's love with an adding maching. God has, however, left throughout the universe, numerous indications of his existence (Psalms 19:1-3).

The Bible claims to reveal God and to be a revelation from God. It claims to give an accurate account of the way the world came into being. Can these claims

be substantiated? If not, surely they can be disproved. But, men have tried every way imaginable to disprove the Bible and have miserably failed. Many theories have been advanced which are in conflict with the Bible account of creation, but not one of these theories has been proved. If the Bible is wrong, and some other explanation is right, why can't such be proved? The Bible brings to us the most reasonable conclusions of all.

Let the Bible be disproved, and its account of creation will fall; otherwise, the only true explanation we have for the way things came to be is that there is a God who created all things. The Psalmist once said, "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God" (Psalms 14:1). in light of all that has been said, and the evidence thus given, how foolish to say "There is no God", since the Bible explanations of the creation is far more logical than any other ever advanced.

Does God really exist? Rather, How could it be that He does not exist?!!!

Andrew McCombs #fundie quora.com

Of course if God were truly good and WE were evil, an attempt by God to show us that we were not, in fact, good, would be met the majority of the time with hostility and rebellion.

Yet, since God in orthodox theory IS Good, there are two characteristics which He must embody: that of Justice and that of Mercy. If God were purely to act according to Justice, he has every right to destroy all evil. If, in fact, we are all evil, He has every right to destroy us without mercy.

Yet, God being Good, must also show Mercy. Therefore, it could be argued that if it were shown that in fact we ARE all evil, the more humble of us might see that they very fact that we have continued to exist and flourish DESPITE our evil, is proof that God is merciful, even if at times He has shown His wrath.

Jesus seemed to treat evil not as a wholly deliberate state, but more as a sickness. So… we must ask ourselves this: Is it possible that we ARE evil? If evil is a sickness, isn’t it a good thing that we know our true condition, so that we can seek a physician to heal us of our sickness?

If the Devil IS truly the adversary and destroyer of good, would he want us to know that we were evil? Or would he instead convince us that we were good, and that God was evil for judging us? Evil people rarely ever believe that they are evil. Hitler thought he was the savior of humanity. We all know that evil is highly unpleasant, and how pleasant is it for one who believes he is good to find out that he is, in fact, evil? I would assume it’s just about as pleasant as a seemingly healthy person finding out that they have terminal cancer. If it weren’t for the temporal authority of a medical doctor, we might well think that someone coming up to us and telling us we are going to die was evil for doing so, and we might react towards that person with hostility… not unlike they who believed they were righteous reacted towards Jesus.

Another thing to consider is this: If God created everything, everything is His to do with as he Wills. If, as it says in Genesis, He created everything good, and suddenly evil and death break out in the midst of his good creation, is it not within His perfectly Good authority to eradicate it? Some consider God’s wrath to be proof that God is evil… yet if Evil was destroying His good creation, it would not be God that was evil for destroying evil, but it would be those which were evil who were rebelling against Him, and in doing so, perpetuating the further degradation of His good Creation. Thus, God would still be Good if, by eradicating degrading elements from Creation, He was able to save His Creation.

Many people do not like the idea that they belong to God, and that they are both subject to His justice and at His mercy, but if this adversely affects them, why does that make God evil? If God is Good, and in fact they are evil, they have no basis for criticizing what God does with either them or the rest of His creation, because they seek to do evil and to destroy (whether or not they choose to see it that way).

Furthermore, it is logically inconsistent that God could possibly be evil, since if God were evil, everything that exists as a result of God’s will would also be evil, since there would be no other definition by which to counter an absolute evil source of all things.

Therefore, the claim that God is evil is self-refuting, since claiming evil presumes an absolute measure of good, yet an absolute measure of good implies God, thus proving that God is Good, not Evil.

Thus, to claim any moral superiority to God is also self-refuting, since claiming a moral superiority (especially an absolute one) depends on an absolute definition of Good, which implies the existence of God, the very being one is claiming moral superiority to. It is absolutely absurd to indirectly invoke God’s absolute goodness to directly condemn God’s supposed evil. Yet that is exactly what the argument presented in the post above does.

Whether or not one believes in God, one can use the logic of a hypothetical existence of God to come to the logical conclusion that, if God exists, He must be Good. Any conclusion other than that is either an appeal to emotion, an appeal to ignorance, or an appeal to absurdity.

As to whether humanity is inclined towards good or whether we are inclined towards evil, one only needs to study human history, especially the past 100 years, to come to the conclusion that it is extremely probable that humans are naturally bent towards evil, which is actually much more consistent with the Biblical view than it is with modern humanist views or even most other religious or philosophical views.

That being most likely the case, and since proving moral superiority inevitably rests upon an appeal to absolute transcendent goodness AKA God, could one really say they are in a position to declare that God is evil even in His wrath, when humans have shown themselves to be so utterly incapable of the goodness they hypocritically and hypercritically accuse God of lacking?

I thinketh not.

David J. Stewart #fundie jesusisprecious.org

My friend, if you are a professed “atheist,” I promise you that YOU WILL BELIEVE IN GOD after the very first 5 seconds of awakening in the horrifying flames of Hell beneath in the earth. There are no atheists in Hell.

One of the most celebrated, quoted and infamous atheists was comedian George Carlin, whom I liked; yet, he is sadly a believer in God this moment in the fires of Hell, as he awaits his final judgment at The Great White Throne Of Judgment (Revelation 20:11-15). The Bible teaches and warns in Revelation 20:11-15 that God the Father will bring up all the dead from Hell (Greek: Hades) and the dead, and He will judge the dead, casting them into the Lake of Fire (Greek: Gehenna) for all eternity without hope or end. 2nd Thessalonians 1:8 warns that God Himself will punish them, taking vengeance upon them with flames of fire. 2nd Thessalonians 1:8, “In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.” Only a total fool would dare say that these plain Scriptures are merely figurative, or mean anything other than exactly what they teach.

I don't write this article to be unkind; but rather, to WARN YOU OF THE JUDGMENT TO COME IN THE LAKE OF FIRE! Colossians 1:28-29, “Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.” Only one sin can keep a person out of Heaven, which is the unpardonable sin of unbelief. If you die in your sins without having received Jesus Christ as your personal Savior in your lifetime, you will go to Hell to burn forever. Nobody Is Laughing In Hell (a life-changing, red-hot, MP3 sermon by Evangelist Phil Kidd). Everyone who goes to Hell pays their own way, but every one that goes to Heaven has a free pass.

But you say, “I don't believe in Hell!” You are not alone, a USA TODAY poll shows 59% of Americans don't believe in a literal Hell. ARE YOU GOING TO HELL? (video). Whether or not you believe that a literal Hell exists doesn't change the fact that it DOES exist. Are you calling God a liar? God authored the holy Bible. The Bible teaches much more about Hell than it does Heaven. Research the Scriptures and you'll find an incredible amount of information on Hell. If you'd like to read an excellent Biblical study about Hell, I recommend “A BIBLICAL EXAMINATION OF HELL” (.pdf book by Dr. Max D. Younce). I assure you my friend, whoever you may be, that there are NO ATHEISTS IN HELL. Not a one!

But let's say for argument's sake that you don't know for certain that Hell exists. Are you willing to burn in Hell for all eternity if you're wrong? Common sense tells us that sin MUST be punished. Our very human soul tells us that there MUST be a God Who is going to judge every human being in eternity. The Bible warns in Ecclesiastes 12:14, “For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.”

Oboehner #fundie disqus.com

A test, I'll demonstrate gravity by dropping a bowling ball out of a tenth story window, you demonstrate evolution by standing under it and evolving into something that can withstand the hit.
Atheists don't merely not believe in God, they believe there is no God - a belief that has life directing implications. That is unlike the asinine examples you gave about unicorns. One could also state that believing in God is not a religion as believing that tomato's are a fruit is not a religion.

very good, now test gravitational waves. test a black hole. test dark matter. test human consciousness of a fetus in the womb. cant do it? those are some new religions for you to practice, I guess.
aside from religious texts, there is no evidence of any god existing at all. there is no reason to believe in something that provides no evidence of existing, like unicorns or god (any of them). if any god wants to pop in and throw us critical thnkers a bone, I would be singing a different tune.

Yet you blindly follow evolutionism as it is what you WANT to believe, your religion of choice.
aside from religious texts, there is no evidence of any common ancestor existing at all. there is no reason to believe in something that provides no evidence of existing, like unicorns or Piltdown Man (any of them). There should be thousands of example of hominid remains, yet all we get are fragments of baboons.

blind? no, there is over a hundred years of continuing reasearch and refinement. over a dozen different human ancestors have been discovered, and stories like the one we are commenting on display how science does not make a decision and stick with it despite new findings

i will also acknowledge how the bible continues to change. the laws of leviticus used to be absolute, however now some of them are literal while others are said to be analogies. christianity's willingness to reinterpret it's holy book to fall in line with modern morality is admirable, so i wouldnt call that entirely blind either.

Blind. There is always the fairytales about human ancestors which invariably end up being fabricated BS, and stories how someone points out the emperor has no clothes and it is reluctantly admitted.
BTW, the Bible has nothing to do with the utter pathetic lack of any proof for evolutionism. Nor does the apostate condition of mainstream "Christianity" have anything to do with the Bible.

Jessa Duggar #fundie facebook.com

One of the most quoted verses from the Bible is Matthew 7:1 "Judge not!" Whenever someone speaks out against something that God calls sin, "Don't judge!" can be heard coming from a thousand lips. People don't like to have other people disapprove of the way they're choosing to live their life.

I will speak to you a hard truth. I do not write this because I think that it will bring me popularity. It won't. But it is Truth from the Word of God: the Bible.
To not tell people this is to hide the truth from them. To keep silent is to not care for their eternal destiny! I care about you, and this is why I am speaking out!

In this world, people have seared their consciences. The standard of what is "ok" or "permissible" in our society today, hardly reflects God's standard.
People are content to live on in lying, cursing, pride, anger, bitterness, disrespecting of parents, lust, pornography, fornication, adultery, and other sexual sins-- and if anyone tries to confront them, their attitude and response is, "You live your life, I'll live mine. Don't you tell me what to do! Only God can judge me!"
They don't even realize what they're saying. God's judgement isn't something to be taken lightly! It should scare you! Man's "judgement" is a 1000x lighter... usually just a voicing of disapproval. But when unbelieving, sinful men die and stand before God, He justly condemns them to hell.

But people disregard the Bible, and instead use all kinds of human logic to try to justify their way of living:

Person #1: "I've been living this lifestyle for years, and I'm a 'Christian.' I don't feel that God is angry with me. I believe in a loving God, not one who would send people to hell."
The person speaking this is right-- their god is not angry with them. He can't be, because he doesn't exist. They are not talking about the God of the Bible. They have created a god in their own mind to suit themselves. They have removed any notion of the Justice of God, and have created a god of their imagination that they can be comfortable with.
The Bible teaches that God is a Just Judge, and He must punish sin. Every one of us have broken God's law, and hell is our deserved punishment. (Unless you're reading some very distorted "translation" of the Bible, you cannot get around the fact that there is a hell).

Person #2: "I have a 'peace' about this, and I'm listening to my heart. God doesn't seem to be judging me. If God didn't approve, why wouldn't He strike me dead right now?"
First off, our human hearts are bent toward sin and not righteousness. We shouldn't follow the inclinations of our heart, but rather we know what is right and wrong according to what we find in God's Word: the Bible.
Secondly, God isn't slacking to fulfill His promised Judgement on sin--it's coming. And the only reason you're are alive right now is because He is merciful and has kept your heart beating for another day. He is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish but that all should reach repentance. But He will not hold back forever. The hours of your time here on earth are ticking away. You're not promised another day, or even another breath. God's Day of Judgement draws near. It will come as a thief in the night--when you least expect it. Everything that you have done in secret will be exposed. Nothing we do is hidden from God's view. (1 Peter 3:9&10)

This should be concerning to you. I know it was for me! When I saw myself in light of God's standard, and I knew that I fell short. But I found hope in the Gospel-- the "good news" of Jesus Christ! I would still be lost today were it not for His grace!

Read what God has done so that you and I might be forgiven of our sins and saved from the punishment we deserve:

16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.
17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through Him.
18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.
20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.
21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God."
John 3:16-21

Repent! Turn away from sin, and to Jesus Christ today! Be saved from the wrath to come.

The believing man has Christ's perfect record put to their account.
God gives him a new heart and new desires.
If you find yourself a sinner in need of Jesus, then open your Bible today and begin to read the books of John and Romans. Let the Word of God root out the sins of your heart. Do not let up until you have found Salvation for your soul!

Pastor Patrick Boyle #fundie #homophobia #transphobia youtube.com

Look at verse number 14. You say, “I thought we were in church; we’re not supposed to hate anything.”

Well, we hate the things God hates, amen! And we love the things God loves. And God hates homos, amen. God hates the faggots and the queers and the LGBT crowd.

And you say, “Well, I don’t like it”.

[A couple of people can be seen getting up and making their way towards the exit, although many more people in the congregation are responding with “Amen”s.]

Well, God hasn’t changed. And God’s not changing. And if you don’t like it, there’s the door, amen. We hate homosexuals around here because God hates them, amen. And if anybody else feels compelled to follow those out, follow ’em out, amen. We’re gonna believe that all the way until Jesus comes back, and capital punishment for everybody that’s a homo, amen.

Dexter Dawson #fundie youtube.com

(This is a comment on a video titled "Jesus Christ Vampire Hunter - Jesus Christ vs The Atheists. I did not bother to read it all, why not you read it?)

Theists and atheists alike are so retarded!
Honestly, all people belonging to both groups are so arrogant, they actually believe they hold the truth of the universe and reality in their hands, they honestly believe they grasped the most important knowledge of all.
Why are there theist and atheist people?
Are they so unbelievably arrogant, that they somehow know anything, anything at all?
First of all, the universe itself may be just a hologram, you have no proof that reality exists, furthermore you have no proof that reality is "real".Think about it.Just think about it for a minute, any creature capable of thinking, of reasoning, of understanding its surroundings, automatically assumes that reality is real, that we can understand all of our environment based just on our senses and concepts, but we don't even have all the tools or the right tools for this.There are animals who can see better than humans, seeing more colors and so on and so forth.
Basically it all comes down to this, what if reality is not real?What if reality is ever changing?Who says that reality is real?What does it mean for reality to be real and why is it important?Who has definite proof that even though reality is real, that is also constant?For all you know, reality constantly changes its own physical laws.
Gravity still can't be explained, actually there are some good arguments that gravity may be not real and it doesn't work the way we assume.If something like gravity may not be real, than what does it say about our lives, about our reality?
Do you have proof that you're real?No you have none.You may think that you have, but is nothing more than an imprinted bias to instantly accept that somehow you are real.Prove to me that you're real.You can talk to me, but for all I know I may be hallucinating, you can touch me, but that can be easily a hallucination too, an optical illusion, people often imagine all sorts of things.You may punch me in the face, but I may be just as easily punch myself in the face while I assume there's someone in front of me doing it(you), while that someone(you) may be just a side-effect of multiple personality disorder(now known as Dissociative Identity Disorder).
See?You can't prove to me that you're real, just like I can't prove it to you that I am real.What reason and proof do you all have to believe that you're real?None, you just instantly buy it, you never even question it?What if I am not real?What reason and proof you have to believe reality exists, that your personal version of reality is real?None, you just immediately accept the reality you see, feel and experience through your senses as being genuine, but you have no proof of that and that's why you never ask yourself?Does the universe exists?Let's assume it does.If it does exist, does the universe still exist as of this moment?What if the universe disappeared and got replaced with a Fake Universe?What about that?And what would that imply?That we are also just as fake as our Fake Universe?How do you know space exist?Have you been outside the planet Earth?If not what is your proof, cause people indoctrinated the idea in your head your whole life, from your family to your school teacher to literally everyone in your life.For all you know, the entire universe may be just a hologramic projection made by some people on earth to make fun of every gullible soul here?Maybe the universe is just planet Earth, you have no definite proof otherwise.And even if you went to space, how do you know it's real?What basis did you have to claim that is genuine?What?Your senses?You mean those senses that are so easily fooled by any optical illusion?Those senses shared by all humans who have and had hallucinations and claimed they meet Satan and other fictional creatures.Are you real?What if you're fake?Maybe you don't exist, or maybe you were replaced with someone who looks exactly like you, thinks exactly like you and acts exactly like you, someone who has the exact same number of atoms and molecules building their body?Do you have any proof that didn't happen?What if it did?Would you be a fake?Would you still be real?What if you were a fake from the moment you were born and only now you've been replaced by the real you?Would you be real then, or a fake?And what does it mean to be real or fake?Can someone be real and fake at the same time?What if you're someone's dream?What if someone else's existence is your dream?Are there real or fake or both or none of those options?
Can you prove that you have a brain inside your head?You can't prove it to yourself, because you have to take your brain out of your head and show it to yourself, can you do that?For all you know you may have shit in your brain and just believe that you have a brain?I can see your brain if I cut you up, if I drill into your head, but you can never do it.So?No human ever can prove to themselves that they possess a brain, they just falsely believe it based on a stupid and fallacious assumption, if everyone has a brain, I must have one too, right?And it's not only stupid and fallacious, but also biased, how can I not be real?I must be, right?
Theists(people who believe in gods and worship them) are just like atheists(people who don't believe in any god), both stupid, retarded, foolishly arrogant and full of hubris, so much pride, every single one of their thoughts and concepts are so fallacious in nature and so easily countered.
Believing in a god or gods is stupid, not believe in any gods is just as stupid.Atheists these days are nothing more than condescending assholes who pretend they hold the ultimate understanding of our world and universe, they are so arrogant in their beliefs they are christian.That's right, atheists are just like christians, nothing more than a bunch of retarded people always claiming to know the truth, always arguing and debating who's right.Richard Dawkings is one of the stupidest people I have ever met, this guy spews so much bullshit, I am surprised he doesn't go on televisions and attempt to convert gullible people to his beliefs.Oh, he actually does like in this video right here.Just like the other guy.His arguments are so childish and unfounded, he doesn't even realize how lackluster they are.You have no proof that a god exists, nor do you have a proof that no god exists?You're just a shitty human just like any other human being that ever lived, is living and is going to live on this planet, you don't know shit, you just like to believe that you know, a common arrogance of all human beings.
Let's assume a god exists, does that automatically mean that he created the universe?No.See how easily I just proved all the debating on this subject and all those who debate it are stupid and retarded.I just erased all meaning in debating anything related to this subject.What if God exists and he just chills around doing nothing but godlike things(we may not know what godlike things are, we are humans after all) and the universe just is, or not?
Nobody knows anything, all the "knowledge" we "discovered", all the information we acquired over the years, all the things we learned are all meaningless, worthless and with no basis in any reality whatsoever.You can't even prove there assumed existance successfully.You can't prove anything, not even your existance or your thoughts for that matter.Are your thoughts real?How do you know they are, are you holding them inside the palm of your hand?Are your thoughts yours to begin with?Maybe they're someone else's?Nobody knows anything, we just assume we know, we just assume we can learn new stuff about our surroundings because we're all arrogant enough to instantly assume reality is a thing and not a concept, or a mere collective hallucination of mankind.
The only 3 ideas that make some sort of sense, the only 3 ideas that are closest to what may actually be, but not what we believe it is, are these:
- agnosticism, acknowledging that you're a worthless human being who has no certain way of ever knowing the answer to this dilemma or any dilemma for that matter
- solipsism, the idea that all reality even the concept of you is just a thought in your mind, or a mind and basically that mind is the only thing being something and all else is nothing
- nihilism, the idea that nothing has a meaning or a purpose and it's all just an accident, or a meaningless course of events

There it is, the only 3 ideas that all people who want to dub themselves as rational must adopt, these concepts aren't exactly real, genuine or true either, we have no way of knowing this or ever knowing this.
But, at the very least these concepts are the closest thing to what may actually be and not what we believe or what we want to believe or what we tell ourselves to believe.
Any other one that is not one of these is stupid, unfounded, can't ever be proven and only believed by stupid people.
Being a theist means being a retard,
Being an atheist means being a retard,
Both are self-righteous believing-in-their-own-bullshit fools
Oh my, my atheists, how foolish you accuse christians of being, but you're exactly if not far more foolish than them.
And I pick on the atheists because this is the new trend of the world, nobody takes christians serious besides themselves.
All atheists are retards.
Why are you all deluding yourselves into believing any bullshit or not believing bullshit?
Is this what you all are, atheists?Nothing more, than a bunch of people who don't believe in the bullshit of another bunch of people?
How can I take any of you seriously?Heck, how can you take yourselves, seriously?
Don't you all realize just how much of a retard every single one of you really is?
Do you really believe that if you're an atheist or a christian that you are smart, intelligent or clever in some way?Don't make me laugh, you're all nothing but posers.
Frauds, that's what all of you are.Nothing but a bunch of nameless sheep who follow the most stupidest and retarded ideas made by humanity ever.You're no smart people, you're no intelligent or wise people, you're nothing more mentally challenged people who waste their lives with what to believe or not believe in.
You are all bottom feeders, nothing more, nothing less.
Idiots, morons, people with shit-for-brains, retards, uneducated by yourselves to actually think for once in your life.
Annoying troglodytes, actually believing themselves to be someone, to have a an understanding of their surroundings, enough to make their own opinions, which are both illogical and irrational.
You are just like in Plato's allegory of the cave, you see the shadows on the wall and come up with the stupidest and most random things to claim and believe and then you go into this crusade for your entire life to prove to others, but mostly to yourselves that you are right, that you do understand "reality", whatever the fuck that is and all just because of your instincts to look for attention and approval, to look for acknowledgement from other retards just like you, to look for their acceptance of you, of the retard known as yourself.
Get your mind out of the gutter, you are not special, you are no unique snowflakes, you are just meat, made out of meat and thinking like meat.
As if being an atheist is closer to the "truth" than any religion.
Retards!
I am just a worthless human being not actually knowing anything or believing my own version of reality is genuine in any way, shape or form.
But I am not arrogant enough and I am reasonable enough to understand that I know nothing and that I don't have a certain way of ever knowing anything, for all I know anything is fake or constantly changing, thus what's real now, will not be real the next moment.
I am just a human being born among these arrogant fools who believe themselves to be gods, since they, apparently, know everything and anything, but they don't actually know shit, no one does.

Grow up.?

Nutrider99 #fundie freeconservatives.com

Definition of a "Theistic Evolutionist:"
1. One who believes in God but not in His word.
2. One who doesn't believe anything God said but believes He must exist because there is no possible way the universe could invent itself.
3. One who doesn't understand evolution or God, but who wants to go to Heaven without wasting his time reading the Bible.
4. One who believes in the goodness of God but couldn't recognize evil if he were drowning in it.
5. A self deluded person who believes truth and lies can co-exist.
6. A warm weather Christian who buckles under when others lie about creation, thinking that if those who are smarter than he believe it it must be true.
7. An agnostic who pretends to be a religious to impress his neighbors.

The only way to believe in both the Word of God and evolution is to have a firm understanding of neither.

The Beast of Revelation #fundie amazon.com

Lao Tzu, no human is born an "atheist" in any meaningful sense of the word. When a human is born, he has not yet heard of God, so he has not yet asked himself whether God exists or not.

Therefore, no one is born either believing that God does not exist, or believing that he can not know whether God exists or not, or even simply believing that he should not yet decide.

Yes, "atheism" can mean "without belief in a god". But then you could call a rat an atheist, because a rat has never heard of God either. Both a newborn baby and a rat have never heard of God. But it is ridiculous to refer to either as an "atheist".

However, it is correct to refer to an atheist as a "rat". A rat can not be an "atheist", but an atheist can be a "rat".

David J. Stewart #fundie jesus-is-savior.com

I do NOT hate anyone here at Jesus-is-Savior.com; on the contrary, I LOVE people very much. The whole purpose of my ministry is to HELP people. There is a war on for our minds and souls. I do not discriminate in any way. I simply present the truth, particularly the truth of God's Word, and expose those who seek to distort, confuse, and corrupt the truth. The Devil is a beautiful liar. The best way to expose the darkness is to shine the light. John 8:45, “And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.” —Jesus Christ

Galatians 4:16, “Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?” —The Apostle Paul I do NOT intend to be unkind to anyone. I simply speak the truth. My website preaches to me as much as anyone else. I do NOT hate anybody. What I DO hate is evil and damnable heresies that ruin people’s lives and lead them into Hell. "The fear of the LORD is to HATE evil..." —Proverb 8:13

I do NOT hate the sinner, no not one. As Christians we like people for their good qualities, but we are supposed to love them despite their faults. No one is perfect. In fact, Jesus only died for “the ungodly.” Romans 5:6... “For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.” —Romans 5:6

There is no sinner that God doesn't love. Only a hypocritical, self-righteous person would claim that God doesn't love the worst sinner. Christ died for the UNGODLY, which is what you and I are. There is hope for anyone who acknowledges their guilt of sin and looks to Jesus Christ for forgiveness. It's not what you're doing that gets you to Heaven, it's where you're looking. Look to Jesus!

No one hates sin any more than God, yet He sent His only begotten Son in the flesh to die for men's sins... "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." —Romans 5:8

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, HATRED, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” —Galatians 5:19-21

“Hatred” of people is a work of the flesh, it is sin. Hatred is normal for the unsaved or “carnal man” who is living in sin, but the Bible teaches that hatred of people is not acceptable with God. God wants believers to be “spiritually minded.” God's love is an unconditional love, which is not dependent upon how people live or treat us. Few people understand the love of God, that sent Jesus to die for the sins of a rotten world that deserves nothing better than eternal punishment in Hell. If God didn't unconditionally love sinners, including the unsaved, then all humanity would immediately plunge into the depths of Hell. The Bible teaches that humanity is prone to DISOBEDIENCE and WRATH...

“Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the CHILDREN OF DISOBEDIENCE: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the CHILDREN OF WRATH, even as others.” —Ephesians 2:2,3

God describes humanity as the “children of disobedience” and the “children of wrath.” Human nature is prone to disobey God. History evidences that mankind is destined to war and destruction. There is so much hatred in the world today. It's a dog-eat-dog world. We see much hatred in the manure-spreading newsmedia. We see much hatred in today's youth, who despise Christianity and have been taught to feel sympathy for godless homosexuals and abortionists. Very few people these days genuinely love the God of the Bible. "All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned EVERY ONE to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all." —Isaiah 53:6

As believers in the Lord Jesus Christ, we are NOT supposed to hate anyone. The Bible commands us to hate sin and evil, but never the people. This is not to say that we ought to sinfully compromise and yoke together with heathens, it just means that we are no better than anyone else and we'd all immediately plunge into Hell if it weren't for God's grace. As mentioned already, this is NOT a hate sight. It is actually a “Love Site.” My love for the Lord prompts me to contend for the faith and exercise my God-given religious freedom. Our rights do not come from the Bill of Rights or the U.S. Constitution, they come from God Almighty. The Constitution only outlines our rights. We are born with certain inalienable rights. One of these rights is the freedom of speech. Evil men may take that right away from us, but God certainly doesn't. We have a right to speak out against the evil and corruption hurting our community.

As a matter of fact, God commands us to refute evil. Ephesians 5:11, "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them." I mean no harm to anyone, nor do I seek to offend. The truth may hurt, but it needs to be spoken. The truth makes some people mad. The truth offends most people. Is it any wonder why God calls us “the children of disobedience?”

John 8:40, “But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth…” —Jesus Christ

Hopefully you will find this ministry a blessing and a benefit (as so many have). If you are offended, please know that it was not my intention. It is the truth that offends people, not me. I am not trying to upset anyone, though the truth often upsets people. I am just a voice. I am only expressing my heart-felt Christian beliefs. It is my hope that you will “have mercy on me” as you browse over my website, i.e., my ministry. Surely with all of the truths on a website this large, something will rub you the wrong way. I respect your right to disagree. It's ok to agree to disagree. I do not mean to offend anyone; however, I make no apologies for speaking the truth.

I do NOT enjoy upsetting people. There's hardly a day that passes when I'm not surprised by something new I've learned. My website is the accumulation of 7-years of things I have learned, and I've just scratched the surface. You needn't believe anything I say; but rather, verify the facts for yourself. I avoid topics such as UFO's that cannot be verified. There's a lot of deliberate misinformation on the internet, intended to discredit legitimate websites that promote the truth. I want to deal in FACTS, which cannot be explained away.

I praise God for the Constitutional right to express my opinion. This is every American's right. My purpose is NOT to attack people, God forbid. I am simply trying to expose false teachings and false religions, that send men and women to Hellfire by the tens-of-thousands every day. When you love someone, you tell them the truth, even if it makes you unpopular. I recently went to the grocery store. I had a nice conversation with a young man and a young woman who worked for the store. The young man helped to unload my groceries and place them onto the checkout counter. I thanked him. The young woman was working the register. He rolled the cart to the end of the counter and left a case of root beer in the cart. I mentioned the case of root beer to the cashier, but she didn't charge me for it. I knew they were trying to be friendly and I knew they were trying to give me a free case of root beer, but I couldn't allow them to do it.

I again asked her if she had charged me for the case of root beer and then she apologized for missing it. She couldn't look me in the eye when she handed me my credit card back. They had tried to steal from the store to be nice to me. I wanted to make friends with them and didn't like refusing their token of kindness, but it was wrong, it wasn't their food to give away. Although I felt bad, and they felt bad, I did the right thing. I spoke the truth. I would rather have no friends than have thieves as friends. I am not perfect, but I have enough things to answer to God for without adding more to it. At some point in life, we need to get serious about serving God. If we love God, then we'll make an effort to do right.

2nd Thessalonians 2:10, “And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.” The Bible teaches in 2nd Thessalonians 2:10 that many people will be deceived in the Last Days by the Antichrist because they received not the love of the truth. The truth is important. The Word of God is truth (John 17:17).

“Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath.” —Ephesians 4:26

May I say, it’s ok to be angry. Jesus became angry when the priests had turned God's house into a den of thieves. However, notice the next part of the verse we just read... “and sin not.” Jesus became angry, but he didn't sin. Jesus never sinned (2nd Corinthians 5:21). As an example: I hate abortion! I think abortion is cold-blooded murder. Less than .01% of total abortions are caused by incidents of rape and incest. Yet, these extremes are often used to justify all abortions. Ninety-nine percent of all abortions are simply the evil deeds of irresponsible people. HOWEVER, I don't hate anyone involved with abortion, not one bit. I love them because God has commanded us to love all people. Don’t you think that if God wanted to put an end to this mess, He could? Of course God could! And He will friend, in His own time.

Psalm 47:8, "God reigneth over the heathen: God sitteth upon the throne of his holiness."

I can't say much about blocking abortion clinics, because I would jump right in front of the door if it were my child about to be murdered. The Bible commands me to love my neighbor as myself (Leviticus 19:18). If that were me about to be aborted, I would want someone to save my life! Americans have hit a new moral low, now murdering their own babies? It is wickedness. Abortionists have the same sick philosophy as Adolf Hitler, i.e., that certain classes of people have a right to life, and others don't. Abortionists don't believe that the unborn fetus has a right to life. They effectively believe that the living are superior to the fetus in the womb. A society that will murder it's unborn is capable of any evil imaginable. Any evil imaginable!

The Scriptures teach, “Be ye angry, and sin not.” There is a fine line between faith and foolishness. We should be angered about abortion, day and night. However, we must be careful to channel that anger through constructive channels which will prevent further abortions, not put us in prison. The best way to fight abortion is by word-of-mouth and public education. We can all SPEAK OUT against abortion in an appropriate manner as civilized people. And we must speak out..."Who will rise up for me against the evildoers? or who will stand up for me against the workers of iniquity?" —Psalm 94:16

Anti-abortion signs are working great nationwide. Thousands of babies have been spared the tortuous death of abortion. God bless the efforts of the folks at Repent America and Operation Rescue. We can do many good things to fight the New World Order, feminism, abortion, homosexuality, etc cetera; but we must not become hateful of the sinner. The best way to stop abortion is to hold up the graphic posters of aborted pieces of children for expectant mothers to view, and to educate them about available Christian adoption services. The wicked politicians and judges in America, who have permitted the murder of tens-of-millions of babies, will give account to God, just as wicked King Herod had to give account for murdering thousands of children in an attempt to kill Jesus. Most of all, the American public is to blame, for tolerating such wickedness and remaining silent concerning evil.

Admittedly, there are many religious “nuts” in the world. As true believers, the Bible should create in us a “sound mind” (which is spoken of in the book of Second Timothy)…“For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a SOUND MIND.” —2nd Timothy 1:7

"Sound" meaning "clear in thought." We are to be level-headed while the world is going insane. The world has become a large insane asylum. If crazy people want to murder their children, we must NOT join the craziness. No "sound" individual would take the life of their own child. I have only used the issue of abortion as an example of how believers are supposed to behave themselves. We are to HATE sin; but not the sinner. Unfortunately, it's getting to the place where Christians won't even be able to speak out anymore against sin if the heathen get their way. We are living in a rotten society. I foresee the day when churches will lose their tax-exemption for speaking out against homosexuality, and be prosecuted for not hiring them. The Bible says the day is coming when the wicked will kill believers, thinking they are doing God a favor...

"They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service."
—John 16:2

We read that evil men and seducers will become worse and worse..."But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit." —Jude 1:17-19

"But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived." —2nd Timothy 2:13

God’s people are to be peace-loving people…“If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.” —Romans 12:18

God’s people are to be peaceful people…“Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.” —Hebrews 12:14

Dr. John R. Rice wrote a book entitled, “I Am A Fundamentalist!” In that book, there is a chapter called, “I Am a Fundamentalist, Not a Nut.” There’s plenty of nuts in the world; God’s children should NOT be in that group. Hating evil is a Biblical command (Psalm 97:10). Taking a stand against evildoers is Biblical (Psalm 94:16). I speak the truth in love as Ephesians 4:15 tells us to. Teaching the inspired Word of God is certainly not hatred. Abortion is murder and someone needs to speak out on behalf of those human beings in the womb. Genuine love speaks the truth.

So friend... having said all the above, I want to say once more... This is NOT a hate site, it is a LOVE site. May God bless you friend and always remember, GOD LOVES PEOPLE!!!

Michelle Meyer and another employee #fundie patheos.com

In a horrible case of real religious persecution, a 7-year-old boy in Indiana was punished and ostracized by his public school teacher after saying he did not believe in God.

Disturbing details are emerging from a lawsuit filed against teacher Michelle Meyer at Forest Park Elementary School who allegedly punished her 7-year-old student with “banishment” for not believing in God.

According to the lawsuit, Meyers forced a second grade boy (identified as A.B. in the lawsuit) to sit by himself at lunch for three days as well as ordering the boy not to talk to any of his classmates after the boy told another student he doesn’t go to church and doesn’t believe in God.

The following is an excerpt from the lawsuit, via the Washington Post:

"9. On or about February 23, 2015, A.B. and his classmates were on the playground during
the school day immediately before lunch when A.B. was asked by one of his classmates if he attended church.

10. A.B. responded by stating that he did not go to church and did not believe in God. He also stated that it was fine with him if his inquiring classmate believed in God.

11. The classmate said that A.B. had hurt her feelings by saying that he did not believe in God and started to cry.

12. A playground supervisor reported to Ms. Meyer what had happened.

13. At that point the students were going to lunch and Ms. Meyer asked A.B. if he had told
the girl that he did not believe in God and A.B. said he had and asked what he had done wrong.

14. Ms. Meyer asked A.B. if he went to church, whether his family went to church, and whether his mother knew how he felt about God.

15. She also asked A.B. if he believed that maybe God exists.

16. [The teacher] told A.B. that she was very concerned about what he had done and that she was going to contact his mother — although she never did.

…

22. On the day of the incident and for an additional two days thereafter, [the teacher] required that A.B. sit by himself during lunch and told him he should not talk to the other students and stated that this was because he had offended them. This served to reinforce A.B.’s feeling that he had committed some transgression that justified his exclusion."

In addition to Meyer’s punishing her student for saying he did not believe in God, another Forest Park Elementary School employee also harassed the little boy for saying he did not believe in God:

"8. A day or two after the initial incident, A.B. and his fellow-student who had become upset with his comment on the playground were sent to another adult employed at Forest Park Elementary School.

19. This person asked them what the problem was and A.B. indicated that his classmate had become upset when, in response to her question, he had said he did not go to church and did not believe in God.

20. Upon hearing this, the adult employee looked at A.B.’s classmate and stated that she should not be worried and should be happy she has faith and that she should not listen to A.B.’s bad ideas. She then patted the little girl’s hand.

21. This was, again, extremely upsetting to A.B. as it reinforced his feeling that he had done something very wrong."

To sum up, one student told another student he doesn’t go to church and doesn’t believe in God. Apparently that upset the other student, who said the statement hurt her feelings. As a consequence, the student was punished by his teacher and another school employee for simply articulating the fact that he does not believe in God and does not attend church.

The district, who for some reason is not named in the lawsuit, released the following statement about the unfortunate affair:

"It is clear that it is not the province of a public school to advance or inhibit religious beliefs or practices. Under the First and Fourteenth Amendments to the Constitution, this remains the inviolate province of the individual and the church of his/her choice. The rights of any minority, no matter how small, must be protected."

The most tragic part of the story:

"31. A.B. came home from school on multiple occasions crying saying that he knows that everyone at school — teachers and students — hate him.

32. Even now there are some classmates who will not talk to A.B.

33. Even now A.B. remains anxious and fearful about school, which is completely contrary to how he felt before this incident."

“He was publicly shamed and made to feel that his personal beliefs were terribly wrong.”

Coach #fundie christiannews.net

Actually, public schools teach direct opposition of Christianity. If I tell students they shouldn't have sex outside of marriage, I'd be told I was enforcing my beliefs on the students, yet when a boy wants to change in a girl's locker room, it's called equality.
I could show students a video of people having sex and that's educational, but if I say "the Bible says" I'm breaking the law and need to stop. If a student walks around the school and brags about how many girls he's been with, it's appropriate for a teacher to applaud him, but the student who walks around proclaiming the gospel of Jesus Christ, he must be stopped, because an evil world will tolerate the rape of women before hearing about Jesus Christ.
There's no such thing as being neutral when it comes to the truth.
He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters abroad. Matthew 12:30

You do the devil's bidding by calling good evil and calling evil good.

Isaiah 5:20 Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil;
Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness;
Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
21 Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes,
And prudent in their own sight!

I have to agree, that by teaching Christianity, he's violating the law, but when the law goes against the world's sin, they change the law and celebrate breaking it. How many principals are there who drive drunk, use illegal drugs, etc.

Fact is Christians take consequences for what we believe, chaplains being discharged, a local college student being expelled for his Christian beliefs not fitting those of his college's counseling program, no refund, nothing. Pastors being arrested for public proclamation of the gospel in ur "free" nation.
The cost of following Christ is high, but consider the even greater cost of going against Him.

The wicked shall be turned into hell,
And all the nations that forget God. Psalm 9:17

Psalm 7:10 My defense is of God,
Who saves the upright in heart.
11 God is a just judge,
And God is angry with the wicked every day.
12 If he does not turn back,
He will sharpen His sword;
He bends His bow and makes it ready.

You're saying there is no right and wrong, it's all subjective, so the principal shouldn't teach Christianity in a school of violence, because you don't like it. So according to your thinking, there's nothing wrong with kids being molested if it fits the general social norms.
Overall, you're saying, I'm a pretty good person Proverbs 20:6 Most men will proclaim each his own goodness,
But who can find a faithful man?
You sound like the average American "I do right by my fellow man, pay my bills, I'm not a bad person" Not intending that in a mocking way, but consider this, you're a criminal in the highest court in the universe. God who is eternally existing Father, Son, and Spirit; created all the universe, not out of necessity, but His good pleasure to do so. In the grand scheme of all the universe,the planet earth is but a speck, you exist as a speck on a speck and insult the God who created and sustains your life. You've violated every law He's gave. You've done evil while ignoring conscious and calling it good.
Consider
Surely You set them in slippery places;
You cast them down to destruction.
19 Oh, how they are brought to desolation, as in a moment!
They are utterly consumed with terrors.
Deuteronomy 32:35 Vengeance is Mine, and recompense;
Their foot shall slip in due time;
For the day of their calamity is at hand,
And the things to come hasten upon them.

Why, so much anger, you have no idea what the Bible says, you just know you hate God. You are arrogant in your unbelief. You love your sin and the Bible tells the truth about you. Your heart is full of evil, lust, envy, hatred of good, but what I hear you saying is Hey coach stop worshipping Jesus and serve the sin nature, forsake the truth, return to the darkness, don't you quote that Bible, I don't like it. Because of Christ, I am no longer a slave to sin, no longer blinded to the truth, no longer addicted to porn. I couldn't go back to the world even if God said I wouldn't be judged for it.

Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”Galatians 3:13

Galatians 1:11 But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. 12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ.

13 For you have heard of my former conduct in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God beyond measure and tried to destroy it. 14 And I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers.

15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb and called me through His grace, 16 to reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately confer with flesh and blood,

Answer me this question, is it wrong to murder? How do you determine your answer?

God has perfect knowledge of all things, but unlike your neighborhood church throwing Super Bowl parties to impress your carnal mind, God converts sinners, giving them a new nature as He has mercy on whom He wills and whom He wills, He hardens.

Romans 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

In real life, the empty tomb is there, the place where the temple stood that Jesus said would be destroyed. The Bible says in the last days there will be mockers, men will be lovers of themselves, etc. Those who desire to live godly lives are persecuted in some way, evil men and imposters grow worse and worse.
Research how the apostles died, tell me what you find prior to your next foolish statement, tell me if you'd endure that to defend your atheism.

Yes, I could see how that would be the conclusion of someone who's never read the Bible. Your willfull ignorance doesn't excuse the fact that you will stand before the Lord Jesus Christ, but you assume that by mocking and denying the truth, it goes away.
Jesus said "Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words never will" Consider how many revisions the average textbook goes through, yet the Bible's truth is unchanging. Every prophesy has been fulfilled exactly as prophesied, the apostles suffered immense persecution as Jesus said they would. Believers today suffer immense persecution and testify of being radically transformed by the power of the gospel.
I bear personal testimony of the gospel's transforming power. I was full of cursing and bitterness, envy, and perverted lust, but God has transformed me and though I am not perfectly sinless, nor will I be in this lifetime, I thank God that He's redeemed me from the depths of my sinfulness, so the idea of the Bible being fiction is completely foolish. You mock a holy God and praise a beverage brand, while cursing the God who gave and sustains your life. Repent and believe on Jesus Christ.

You can hate the truth, that doesn't change it, fact is God, who is infinitely holy commands all men everywhere to repent. You're a slave to sin and serve the desires of your master, the devil, as I once did, but have been set free by the power of Jesus Christ, who took on flesh and endured the wrath of God on behalf of sinners. You hate a man for proclaiming that truth and defend those who encourage human sacrifice to their false gods (I'm almost certain, you can't deny this)
As it is written:
There is none righteous, no, not one; There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God.
They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one.
Their throat is an open tomb; With their tongues they have practiced deceit; The poison of asps is under their lips
Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness
Their feet are swift to shed blood;
Destruction and misery are in their ways;
And the way of peace they have not known.
There is no fear of God before their eyes. Romans 3:10-18

You are condemned and awaiting judgement, I assure you it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. John 3:18-20

Your god is the god of this evil age, not the one true god, it's obvious that you're faithful to him, but I warn you, he'll be cast into the lake of fire at the judgement throne of Jesus Christ, along with everyone not written in the book of life. Repent of your sins and turn to Christ, the one who has the power to cast body and soul into hell, whom you've mocked your entire life, in spite of the fact that He's given you life and can take it away in an instant. Before you say "oh you're trying to scare me into believing", consider the fact that false converts will be cast into the lake of fire, many of whom go to church and appear to be godly. So unless you be converted, you will suffer the wrath of God that abides on you currently.
Jesus Christ, the sinless Son of God took on human flesh, was born into the world He had made of a virgin in a stinking stable, was despised and rejected by those who claim to serve God. He performed miracles, clearly seen by multitudes of healing, casting out demons, raising the dead. He was betrayed by one of His disciples, suffered the wrath of God at the hands of sinners and rose from the grave to be the mediator for all who will believe on Him. Why couldn't God just forgive people without Christ's suffering?, because that would make God unjust. Because God is good, He must punish every bit of evil. Because God is eternal, the offense is greater. If a boy lies to his teacher, he gets a 0, he lies to his parents, he gets grounded, lies to police, he gets arrested, but all sin is against an infinitely holy God. There's no neutral ground with God, you're either a savant of God having been saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, or His enemy.

Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates His love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Christ died for the ungodly that would later repent and believe on Him and one is saved by trusting Him alone, not "good" deeds, not reforming one's behavior, not repeating a prayer, not being baptized, no by faith alone in Jesus Christ. I suggest you start with reading the Bible. By mocking Christianity on a Christian site, you waste your life, which is as a vapor in comparison to eternity. I speak as one raised on the religion of the age along with some Christian teaching, who held to being a Christian and repeated tons of prayers, but God saved this religionists out of his sin, out of his bondage to pornography, I don't say that as a sob story, but as praise to the all powerful God, who is gracious to whomever He wills to be, not because of my so-called good deeds, but in spite of them. To God alone be the glory and He will be glorified in either saving you for Himself or casting you into the lake of fire. If you could but get a glimpse of His infinite worth and how you a finite creature have insulted Him. Repent and trust the Lord Jesus Christ. Have no confidence in yourself. You must be born again, by the sovereign grace of our Lord Jesis Christ.

This man is violating his role as a principal, doesn't he know there's a separation between church and state? Or maybe, he recognizes that God is sovereign and we ought to obey Him rather than men.

Troy Lacey and Ken Ham #fundie answersingenesis.org

Atheism Is Religion

Atheists Down Under Are Worried

Do atheists have beliefs? Of course they do!

Atheists believe that matter arose by natural processes. Can they prove this? Not at all!

Atheists believe the universe, all life, the laws of nature, and laws of logic arose by natural processes. Can they prove this? Of course not, but they believe it to be so.

Atheists believe they cease to exist after they die. Can they prove this? No, but they believe this is what happens.

Atheists believe no God exists. Can they prove this? Not at all—it’s their belief.

Merriam-Webster dictionary defines the word religion this way:

1. a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance

2: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices

3: archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness

4: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

Even though he has not labeled himself as such, Bill Nye, for all intents and purposes, is a practicing atheist. Look at this short video clip as I was speaking to him recently at the Ark Encounter where he admitted to believing life arose by natural processes—he has a belief, a religion. Atheists have a “system of belief held to with ardor and faith.” Atheists are very religious people.

Now, in the United States, atheists have conducted a propaganda campaign to try to brainwash the public into believing that people who believe in God are religious, but those who don’t believe in God are not religious. Because of this atheist propaganda, many have been indoctrinated to believe that when secularists get the Bible out of public schools, or crosses and nativity scenes out of public places, they removed religion so the situation could be neutral. However, the reality is that these secularists have imposed their atheistic religion on the schools and culture in general. As Jesus taught: “He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters.” (Luke 11:23) There is no neutral position. No person has no religion—everyone has a religion, and ultimately it comes down to those who are for the true God and those who are not.

ATHEISTS HAVE CONDUCTED A PROPAGANDA CAMPAIGN TO TRY TO BRAINWASH THE PUBLIC INTO BELIEVING THAT PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IN GOD ARE RELIGIOUS, BUT THOSE WHO DON’T BELIEVE IN GOD ARE NOT RELIGIOUS.

Now atheists from Down Under have been desperately trying to convince people in Australia that they have no religion.

Tuesday, August 9, is Census Night in Australia (though people have several weeks to complete it). Every five years, all Australian citizens are required to fill out the census form. As in America, census results help the government figure out where and how government funds are allocated. These allocations can seriously impact Christian organizations such as Christian schools, charities, chaplain offices, and other religiously affiliated organizations.

Of particular concern is question 19, which is the only optional question on the census form. This question is the religious identity question. Several different options are available, including six Christian denominations as well as Islam, Hinduism, and Buddhism. There is also an “other” category to mark, and then additional information needs to be supplied in a text box. But what makes this question stand out is that “no religion” is the first option to choose from. Now this is absurd, because no one can claim they have no religion! So that option should be totally deleted from the census form

However, according to the Canberra Declaration newsletter,1 the reason why this choice occurs first is that the Atheist Foundation of Australia lobbied for it three years ago. It’s possible that some people may select this box simply because it appears first, especially if they are hurrying through the form or if at first glance they don’t see their own religious affiliation listed. This would be detrimental to religious organizations, as government subsidies may be cut or diminished based on the answer to this question. But a religious affiliation is a totally different matter from claiming one has no religion anyway! As well as listing various denominations, Islam, and so on, atheism should be listed as the religion (as opposed to “no religion”) for those who choose this affiliation.

Much Campaigning about Nothing

In fact this potential cutting of government funding may be just the hope of the Atheist Foundation. In the weeks leading up to tomorrow’s census, the Atheist Foundation of Australia launched a “Mark 'No religion'” website and have been conducting an advertising campaign to encourage people to do so. Some of the tactics appear aimed at making “unsure” or “undecided” people use this option. There has also been an attempt by the Atheist Foundation of Australia to encourage teens and children to be counted as “no religion,”2 claiming that only adults can validly claim a religion. Of course, part of the atheist campaign is to try to indoctrinate young people in particular that atheists don’t have a religion. But young people need to understand that atheism is a religion—and it’s a religion of purposelessness, meaninglessness, and hopelessness.

The “other” box on this form has also been gaining momentum among some segment of the population. Apparently there has been an increase in the number of “Jedi” in the past few censuses.3 Ironically the aforementioned Atheist Foundation is trying to get people to quit claiming Jedi as a religion, as they claim it will falsely inflate the undefined religion category at the expense of their false idea of no religion. Apparently “the Force” is not strong with them.

ATHEISM IS A RELIGION. IT’S A RELIGION WHICH EXPLAINS LIFE WITHOUT GOD.

But when you really stop to think about it, why is there such a push by the Atheist Foundation of Australia for marking the “no religion” box? To get the “no religion” box put at the very top seems like it should be satisfaction enough; but no, an all-out media blitz has been (and still is) underway. As we’ve pointed out many times before, atheism is a religion. It’s a religion which explains life without God. As mentioned here (and outlined above), one definition of religion is “a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith.” Yes, atheism qualifies as a religion!

Furthermore, why should the Atheist Foundation even care? In an atheistic worldview, when you die that’s it (or as Bill Nye said at the Ark Encounter, “When you die you’re done”). There is no ultimate basis for morality, for life, or even for logic. And although Bill Nye falsely claims that he arrived at his belief in atheism (and life by natural processes) based on the evidence,4 why should he trust his senses anyway? What gives him the basis for accepting what he perceives as reality? What makes his interpretation of the evidence right and a creation scientist’s wrong?

Ultimately, to the Atheist Foundation of Australia, what difference should it make if one set of chemicals wrapped in a blanket of skin believes something different from another? In their worldview, our brains are just doing what the chemicals and electric impulses in them direct us to. They can’t even fall back on the relative morality of “what society decides goes” argument: at the last census (2011) only 22.3% claimed “no religion” as their option on the form.5 They also have to at least recognize that many of the religious organizations their strategy may impact are those that, even in an atheistic worldview, do good work. Homeless shelters, Christian-based hospitals, Red Cross centers, charities, and church food pantries all might be negatively impacted. So what does this show about their relative morality? It’s relatively worthless! And really what does it all matter in an ultimately fatalistic worldview?

James De Young #fundie burningdowntheshackbook.com

Warning To Pastors Re. Young’s Universalism

By Dr. James De Young, senior professor, Western Seminary, Portland, Or.

Recently I read a posting by a Southern Baptist leader from Oklahoma, Rev. Wade Burleson, who endorses Paul Young’s newest book, Lies We Believe about God. Burleson claims that Paul Young, the author of The Shack, expresses just another, optional viewpoint about the atonement. He cited Al Mohler and Paul Young as both believing in the atonement but differing only on the issue of its extent. Mohler, following Calvin, believes that the atonement, the sacrifice of Christ for sin on the cross, was limited to providing atonement for believers only. Young believes it is for all human beings. At least this is how Paul Young has explained it to pastor Burleson.

Recently, John MacMurray, a supporter of Paul Young (note that he is named on the last page of the book, Lies), argued similarly and criticizes those who fault Young’s theology.

Now my discussion is not just about what Burleson believes. For I suspect that many pastors are in the same position that Burleson is. They are influenced by their personal experience with Paul Young and give him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to understanding his theology. They fail to ask the right questions. But with his most recent publication Young has erased all doubt as to what he believes and how far apart he and Mohler truly are. For Burleson and other pastors to fail to recall their evangelical theology and church history is an inexcusable failure. They are uninformed how universal reconciliation has brought havoc to the church.

Paul Young’s History and Mine

Many pastors are being misled. I’ve known Paul Young probably far longer than most of them. Paul and I go back at least two decades. And in this time Paul has twisted the truth to accommodate his reputation as a “Christian” writer. Here is a summary of events. He renounced his “evangelical paradigm” and converted to universal reconciliation (UR) (in a 103-page forum paper in 2004); reaffirmed his new belief to me and my wife in a church foyer (probably in 2006 or so); wrote for his kids The Shack, which was full of universalism (about 2006); with two pastor friends took a year to remove the UR (2006-2007?); in my home before many witnesses said that he no longer believed UR (in 2007); published The Shack; then has written two more novels with UR as an undercurrent throughout (Crossroads, 2012; Eve, 2015). See my reviews and other articles at burningdowntheshackbook.com.

During all this time, I’ve tried to warn Christians about the subtle propagation of UR that exists in his novels and now in the movie. I wrote my book, Burning Down the Shack, to clarify both what universalism is all about and how it has deceived many in the church and to show how it is embedded chapter by chapter in Paul’s novel. Many people have neglected my warnings or downplayed them. Again my web site clarifies the heretical points of this universalism.

Now Paul’s latest release confirms all my warnings. In Lies We Believe about God, Young deliberately takes on 28 statements that we Christians affirm and he dismisses them all as lies. He openly confesses allegiance to “universal reconciliation,” that all people are already saved (p. 118). It is no longer a “hope.” He writes this under the “lie” stated as “You need to get saved” (chap. 13).

So I say to Pastor Burleson and others like him: the argument is not just about the extent of the atonement. It is a question about whether there was an atonement at all! Young does not believe that Jesus Christ took sinners’ place to make an atonement for their sins on the cross—to provide propitiation. Young explicitly rejects penal substitution. If you don’t believe me, ask him. Yes, Jesus died there. But it was not a place of judgment. Paul expands on this under a couple of other “lies”: “The Cross was God’s idea” (ch. 17; rather, Paul says that it was man’s idea); “God requires child sacrifice” (ch. 19; here Young denies that the death of God’s son was necessary to pay the penalty that God’s justice required); “Hell is separation from God” (ch. 15; no, God is in hell, and he uses “fiery love” to bring all people to himself from there); “Sin separates us from God” (ch. 27; no, nothing including sin can ever separate any human being, whether a believer or not, from God; no one has ever been separated from God; all are “in God”); “Not everyone is a child of God” (ch. 24; no, all human beings are children of God: all were in Christ in his death and resurrection, and because Christ is in God, then all are in God); and “God is One alone” (ch. 28; here Young rejects his understanding of the Trinity as derived from his “evangelical Christian fundamentalism”).

When Are Enough Lies Enough?

So now I speak more directly. Pastor Burleson, and others, do you not see how these attacks on what we Christians “lie” about go to the very heart of the Gospel of the NT? Do you not see that there is no gospel or good news for you to preach, of how God judged our sins on the cross (Rom. 3:23-26), if you embrace these corrections of the “lies” that Christians make? Do you still think that this is simply a matter of the extent of the atonement? Do you preach that all people are equally children of God? How many more “lies” would Paul Young have to attack before you have finally had enough? How can you be a faithful shepherd of your flock if you deceive them with Young’s teaching or downplay it the way you do? Note the Apostle Paul’s words about distorting the gospel in 2 Cor. 2:17 and 4:2ff.

Some Final Concerns

A couple other things you should note. First, you need to recall some history. UR has been a heresy propagated by heretics from the third century on, beginning with Origen. It was condemned as heresy in the 5th and 6th centuries. It declined. Then with the freedom of inquiry that the Reformers promoted it found new life. It came to Colonial America in 1740 in the person of John Murray and became so popular that one out of every five Baptist ministers, it is said, converted to it. But God raised up other Baptists, such as Isaac Backus, to begin exposing it. It went into decline from 1850 or so for a hundred years. Now it is experiencing a resurgence again, through the writings of Young, McLaren, Talbott, and Bell, and others, and their apologists. I’ve written an entire book refuting UR.

Finally, one more thing you should note from my history with Paul Young. In 2007 he said before many witnesses including my pastor that he had given up his universalism but refused to tell us what he did believe. Now, with the book, Lies, he confesses (p. 118) that he has believed UR all along.

Does this account not reveal deceit? Does this not identify the author of Lies as a liar himself? Should this affect our understanding of his character?

These are heart-wrenching questions. But as a pastor you need to clarify where you stand—with Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior as revealed in the Bible or with Paul Young? It is the truth vs. Lies.

The Lord Jesus will keep building his church, in spite of The Shack. But it may be without you.

Some of you say that you “hope” or wish that universalism is true. To hope for something that God has never said, and contradicts what God says, makes one a friend of Satan and an enemy of Christ.

And don’t ever align Paul Young with C.S. Lewis!

L T #fundie answers.yahoo.com

Atheist, do you not believe in God because there is not “physical” evidence of His existence?
Have you ever tried reading the Bible?
Has a Christian ever tried to witness to you but you cut them off or turned them away?
Have you ever thought that God does really exist?
Was there something specific that caused you to not believe that God exists?
If I told you that God loves you, you wouldn’t believe me because He doesn’t exist right? Why?
If I told you that God will judge you, you wouldn’t believe me right? Why?
If I told you that in the book of Revelations it says that Jesus will return for His believers you surely would not believe me right? Why?

I am not trying to be rude. I just notice that many Atheists really try and bring down the Chrisitan faith, (my faith). I would like to know why it's so important that you try and quiet us and make us believe that we are dilusional or something. I feel that you are a bit close-minded but you probably feel the same way about me.

Sam Storms #fundie crosswalk.com

8 Huge Myths about Hell

The reality of hell and eternal punishment is not a popular topic, even among Christians. Part of the problem is that the nature of hell has been horribly distorted in our culture and portrayed as an experience that is far from what we read in the NT. When I’m asked why I believe in hell, my response is three-fold.
First, I have such unshakable and robust confidence in the inerrant truth of every word in the Bible that the matter is already settled before I even read the text. I believe, as the Apostle Paul said in 2 Timothy 3:16, that “all Scripture [even texts such as Revelation 14:9-11] is breathed out by God and [is] profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness.”
Second, by God’s grace I have come to understand, at least to some degree, the immeasurable magnitude and majesty of God’s holiness and beauty and authority and the honor that is due to him from all of his creatures, including you and me.
Third, again by God’s grace I have come to understand the immeasurable horror and ugliness and self-centeredness of humanity’s sin and depravity and wickedness.

If hell strikes you as unreasonable or unfair...

So I can honestly say that to the degree that you and I struggle with the concept of hell and eternal punishment is the degree to which we don’t understand God’s holiness and honor, on the one hand, or the horror and depravity of mankind’s sin, on the other. In other words, if hell strikes you as unreasonable or unfair or disproportionate, it can only be due to the fact that either you don’t believe the Bible is inspired and true, or you don’t believe that God is infinitely holy and just, or you don’t believe that mankind is morally depraved and has committed cosmic treason and is thus deserving of eternal condemnation.
As noted, contributing to the problem of hell are the numerous myths or false beliefs that surround it.
Here are eight of them:

Myth #1: Hell is a place to be united with unbelievers.

There is widespread belief among non-Christians that hell is a place where they will be united with their unbelieving friends and drink beer all the time in an endless party. The fact is that hell is a place of utter isolation, loneliness, and deprivation.

Myth #2: Hell is a place where Satan and his demons reign.

Another false belief is that hell is the place where Satan and his demons exercise their authority to rule and reign. The fact is that hell is the place where Satan and his demons suffer eternal punishment. Satan and his demons are inmates in hell, not its warden or guards. See Matthew 25:41 for one clear statement to that effect:
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."

Myth #3: Satan and his demons will torment human beings in hell.

Directly related to the previous myth, there is the notion among many that in hell Satan and his demons torment human beings who also are there. No. There is not one text in the Bible that suggests Satan and his demons afflict or torment human beings. They themselves, instead, are the object of God’s punishment. There have been numerous books written by people who claim to have visited hell in which they describe a scene where demons are tormenting humans who have been consigned there. This should be the first indication to all careful, Bible-believing readers that such an experience is fabricated.

Myth #4: There are people in hell who want to reconcile with God.

Yet another misconception is that there are people in hell crying out for mercy who want to reconcile with God. Nothing in Scripture indicates this is so. Instead, those in hell are eternally defiant of God and hate him all the more with each passing moment.

Myth #5: There are people in hell who don't deserve to be there.

One of the more blasphemous notions about hell is that there are people in hell who don’t deserve to be there. Nothing could be farther from the truth. God’s justice is impeccable and he never consigns anyone to punishment in hell who does not fully deserve to suffer there.

Myth #6: There are people in hell who wanted to go to heaven.

A related myth is the notion that there are people in hell who wanted to go to heaven while they were still alive, but God wouldn’t let them. That is utterly false. Jesus himself made this clear when he said, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. . . . whoever comes to me I will never cast out . . . . For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day” (John 6:35, John 6:37b, John 6:40).

Myth #7: Hell holds people who will one day be released.

A seventh myth is that there are people in hell who will eventually be released and granted entrance into heaven. As much as we might wish this were true, it isn’t. The Bible does not teach the doctrine of universalism, that is, the idea that everyone will eventually be saved and given eternal life in the new heaven and new earth.

Myth #8: In hell, people will be rid of God.

Finally, there is the myth that in hell people will be rid of God and have no experience of him. That is not true. It is true they will have no experience of God’s loving and gracious presence, but they will most assuredly experience his presence in justice and wrath. In fact, we read in Revelation 14:10 that they will be tormented “in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb,” that is, in the presence of Jesus Christ. As John Piper has said, Revelation 14:10is not saying that “those in hell have the privilege of seeing what they enjoy, but that they have the remorse of seeing what they rejected.”

Hell should provoke anguish and urgency.

I’ll conclude with two brief observations. First, I can’t read biblical portrayals of hell and eternal punishment or think about it without feeling a deep and unrelenting agony in my heart. We should never talk about hell without weeping, for it is real and people are going there. This is not a subject for joking or lighthearted banter. It is an issue that should provoke within us both anguish and an urgent commitment to share the gospel with those who remain in unbelief.

Hell should provoke unfathomable gratitude.

My second reaction is one of unfathomable gratitude. When I read about hell in a passage like Revelation 14:9-11 I’m reading about what I deserve. God would have been perfectly just and righteous had he chosen to consign me to eternal torment. But in mercy he has drawn me to faith in his Son. In mercy he has poured out his wrath on Jesus in my place, a wrath and judgment that Jesus lovingly and willingly embraced and endured. Every single one of us deserves damnation. God owes us nothing but justice. The fact that he has given us mercy instead, and forgiveness instead of condemnation, ought to awaken in us the most heartfelt and passionate gratitude and praise.

Max #fundie lifeontheblade.blogspot.com

No, I don't think I would vote for an atheist; and I will tell you why: if one doesn't believe in God, then one doesn't believe in oneself; and if one doesn't believe in itself, then one doesn't believe in the people; and if one doesn't believe in the people, one cannot serve it properly. I know a few people who claim to be atheists and their speech is rather unclear, confused, in regards to their position...and if a politician is atheist, you can bet that most of his decisions will be of remaining sat on the wall, like humpty dumpty.

Anonymous Coward #fundie #ufo godlikeproductions.com

UFOs are the nephilim.

Tom Horne and Steve Quayle have alot of information.

I have a personal one too.

I met the greys. They abducted me for some years. This was btw before I was with God. But I all of a sudden got the idea to ask Jesus for help. As soon as I called on him and used his name against them, they disappeared.
Now that's power. They are terribly afraid of him.

Other new age friends have tried to get me to open up to spiritual guides. I've never trusted this however. Like I said, how do you know, you don't get contact with something you don't want. I was told, trust your feelings. Ha, feelings is the most treasonous. When it comes to that. I mean, anything could use it. So I said, I only trust God, that's all I need. You really don't need anything else. Talk about the new age friends huff and puff. I said, how do you know, that you are not decievied? They couldn't answer. Yeah, but they've helped me, they even saved my life, I was told. I said, the darkness comes as the light. Just because of this, how do you know, they won't turn the back on you. Have you tested them from being of God? I mentioned the testing God says. That was answered with more huff and puff. Then I knew. They were pushing so hard, and other people in my history have tried to push So hard. Yet I h never trusted it because of my innate knowing.
And here we go. Proof is shining in your face.

It's fake guys. It's all fake. There are no spiritual guides. There are only demonic beings. It's not just so simplified, as a fairy tale. These things are real. They reside in the fourth dimension. Humans have no power, when they go there, through mediums, fortune telling or spiritual guidance. None. They make themselves totally open to these things and they don't even know, that humans can't operate in their realm. And they are much more intelligent.

Father Malaki Martin and Father Amorth are two other men who would agree. They have seen and experienced these things. And experience God's power.
They just don't invent these things.
It does one thing however. It proves the existence of God. And, when God exists, hell exists.
Listen to God.
Turn to Him.
You don't know when it's your time.
He's the most miraculous, and I owe him everything.
He really is alive.
Yes you have benefits of finding a church but you don't need a church to experience him. Just ask.
These things are REAL.

Sye Ten Bruggencate #fundie #dunning-kruger facebook.com

Quotes from Sye Ten Bruggencate in [the 2014 Refining Reason] debate:

“Why is it reasonable to believe that God exists? Quite simply, because it’s true that he exists.”

“Premise One: It is reasonable to believe that which is true. Premise Two: It’s true that God exists. Conclusion: Therefore, it’s reasonable to believe that God exists.”

“People sometimes say, ‘You know you’re atheistic towards all those other gods.’ No, I’m not. There are no other gods. I’m not an idolater.”

“Sin is not a matter of how bad you are. It’s a measure of how good you’re not.”

“I don’t do bible studies with non-believers.”

“Logical absolutes reflect the thinking of God.”

(to the entire audience) “Your conscience is on my side. You all know that God exists.”

...

And those are mere drops in the bucket.

Jackie Sweeney, A Servant of Christ #fundie quora.com

It good your heart goes out for others that don’t believe. I feel as you do but it’s nothing that can be done about it. We all have a choice and freedom to make our own decisions. There are many reasons a person doesn’t believe or stop believing. We can only pray they change and continue to love all!

Some have stopped because they were forced as a child to go to church and maybe treated bad by their Christian parents.

Some don’t like how some Christians behaves and treat others. Some people in churches has done or doing things that taken away their beliefs!

Some don’t believing because they don’t understand the Bible and think God is evil. Since they don’t understand the reason God did the things He had to do, they assume wrong. Because they don’t know God, they see His Word wrong! Someone has interpreted the Bible to them in an unbelievable and sickening way. Making God like a monster instead of righteous and good like He really is!

Some think Jesus teachings were wrong because they don’t understand what Jesus was saying. They have taken Jesus word and twisted it around to make it sound mean. A person may read misleading or wrong things on the internet about Him and His disciples!

Some want to know what kind of God will send them to Hell for not believing or worshipping Him. God doesn’t make anyone believe or worship Him. He also doesn’t send anyone to Hell. His word is what condemns you! It is written and what written has power. Everyone chooses where they go. If you don’t believe what His Word says then you made your own choice. The Bible through Jesus teaching, teaches salvation!

Then you have the ones that want proof and won’t believe or stopped because evidence of His existence isn’t there. They feel the Bible must be made up. They think God is like Santa. He is in people imagination to them. They refuse to believe! Only believers have the evidence within!

Some blame God for sufferings in this world that man-kind caused to come because of sin. Some blame Him for the death of a love one when death was passed to all because of sin. Some blame God for the evil and bad things that happens in this world when sin brought all these things. (God can’t change what His Word says, what is written will be done.)

When an innocent child dies, they will go to Heaven. It’s the one left behind that stop believing that has to worry! God may allow a child or love one to die to save him/her from suffering or something else later on. Remember Gods sees the future and we see only now! What God knows we don’t!!

WHATEVER HAPPENS IN LIFE KEEP YOUR FAITH IN GOD AND ALWAYS BELIEVE! You can’t save others but you can save yourself. You can only lead them to God if they don’t know Him but it’s up to them to become a believer.

Atheism Fails #fundie facebook.com

GOD DOESN’T HATE HOMOSEXUALS — HE HATES SIN
No one is going to hell because they are homosexual. But some will go to hell for practicing homosexuality. Note the difference in language and meaning. In fact, it is biologically evident that no one is born a homosexual any more than one is born a rapist, murderer, alcholic or child abuser.

There is a difference between being and acting, just as there is a difference between biology and psychology. Today’s pro-homosexual movement wants to pretend that there is a genetic cause for homosexual behavior and equate it to inherent skin color or other ridiculous claims, but they have no evidence of such a biological claim. As much as they would prefer to have an excuse for their sin of desire, they are stuck without one.

If one believes God should ignore the sin of homosexuality, should God also ignore the sins of murder and rape, thievery and adultery? After all, what’s the difference? Was Jeffrey Dahmer sinning when he sexually molested then killed seventeen young men before cannibalizing them? Maybe he was just born with cannibal tendencies? Don’t be ridiculous! One may as well pretend that God loves sin.

Anna Diehl #fundie 924jeremiah.wordpress.com

Why does God let children die of cancer?

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AUDIO VERSION: YouTube  Podbean

Why does God let children die of cancer? To answer this question we need to understand some fundamental truths about how this world works.

THE INJUSTICE OF DISEASE

Why does it feel so wrong to us when a child slowly wastes away with disease? There are many reasons. It goes against the natural order of things: children aren’t supposed to die before their parents. It also hurts us and we hate things that cause us pain. We think that the things that hurt us must be evil, therefore cancer is evil. Who do we associate with evil? Satan, of course, therefore Satan is to blame for cancer. This is the theological trail many Christians go down: they end up blaming Satan or else they sigh heavily and say “It’s a fallen world.” Still others personify the disease itself and treat it like a conscious being. “#&%$@ cancer!” is a phrase we see posted on internet profiles by those who are feeling frustrated and helpless as their loved ones suffer in front of them. But is cussing out cancer really getting us anywhere? And is plastering colored ribbons all over the earth really rushing us towards a cure? Suppose they found a cure for all cancers tomorrow and began passing it out for free in every country. Do you know what would happen? A new, nastier, scarier disease would suddenly spring up in our midst. Why is this? Because the One who created this world wants disease to be a part of it.

THE ORIGIN OF DISEASE

The way Christians try to blame everything on the Fall is ridiculous. When we talk like Eve sent the universe spinning out of control the moment she bit into the fruit, we are completely denying what is right in front of our eyes. We need to start back at the beginning of Genesis and try again. No one forced God to curse Adam and Eve with pain, hardship, and physical death. He came up with the idea of making our lives a trial all on His own because this planet was always intended to be a place in which we grow through suffering. So what does this tell us about God? Is He some kind of ogre? No, He’s not. But from our perspective, His methods can seem very cruel.

GOD’S PRIORITIES

In order to understand why God inflicts kids with cancer, we need to understand what His priorities are. Keeping us comfortable, happy and healthy while we are on this earth is not at the top of His list of important things. If He had wanted this place to be a perpetual paradise He would have made it one. Instead, He made Heaven a paradise and arranged for almost our entire existence to be there, provided we properly submit to Him (see Understanding Salvation: Meeting the Demands of Three Gods). We’re only on this earth for a brief blip of time, and while we are here, we are supposed to be growing closer to God. Everything that He does to us down here is with our spiritual best in mind. That includes inflicting children with malignant tumors.

Whenever we find ourselves feeling enraged about some form of suffering, it is because we’ve zoomed the lens in far too close. When we get upset about kids dying of cancer, we are only thinking of ourselves and our immediate earthly happiness. We’re not considering the long-term view. We’re putting the temporary above the eternal in value and worth. God does just the opposite. He says the eternal health of souls is far more important than our momentary sorrow on earth. We say pain is pointless. He says pain is a catalyst for causing great change in people’s hearts. We see a child suffering and say that God is cruel. He sees one child’s experience affecting hundreds of lives and shocking souls out of a fatal stagnation. God hurts us in order to heal us. Everything He does is for our best, but too often we refuse to put any trust in His motives, even though He has proven Himself to be infinitely more loving, faithful, and wise than we are.

No one is more dedicated to the well-being of humans than the One who created them in the first place. This world isn’t something that God stumbled upon one day and took a mild interest in. We are His carefully crafted, intricate masterpieces. He hovers over us constantly, meticulously arranging every detail of our lives. Tumors don’t just happen to people because of bad genes or exposure to toxins. God creates tumors in bodies with the same precision as He creates all of our internal organs. Tumors grow because He makes them grow. They are detected late because He blocks us from finding them early. They are cured because He cures them, and they kill us because He wants them to. God works through medicines, doctors, and a host of other things, yet we must not get so focused on His methods that we miss seeing Him. No child comes down with cancer by random chance or because God abandoned them to the clutches of Satan. God personally selects all the victims of cancer with great care, and it is not because He hates them or is just trying to punish someone.

THE FATHER OF OUR CHILDREN

All children belong to God. He is their true Guardian and when He involves us in their care it’s understood that it will only be for a temporary amount of time. At some point, He takes all of His children back again to an eternal dimension where He parents them directly. On earth, we human parents are simply mediators whose primary job is to teach children who their eternal Father is. Sometimes He gives us a lifetime to love and care for His children on earth. Other times, He reclaims them after only a few years. Do we really have the right to accuse God of being unfair in taking back what is rightfully His? Yes, it hurts terribly, and we shouldn’t pretend otherwise. But to tell God that He was wrong to take what His own hands have made—well, that simply doesn’t work. Other souls are not our property.

DEATH

From God’s perspective, no one dies prematurely and no one dies late. We say they do because we have preconceived notions about how long people should live. We’ve decided that there’s a rule that all children are supposed to outlive their parents. God never gave us any such guarantee. We’ve decided that anyone who dies from diseases or violence has been cheated. This simply isn’t true. God is clear that He predetermines the number of days that each soul will live on this earth, and no one fails to complete their full assignment. This is because no one can end a life without God’s cooperation. He alone has the power to separate soul from body, and to withdraw the breath of life that He put into us.

Humans try desperately to control the lifespan of themselves and others, yet God says that no one can do anything without His cooperation. We can plot and scheme all day, yet it is God who ultimately decides whether our plans fly or flop. We come up with new miracle drugs for cancer, yet it is God who decides who they work on. Some survive chemo, others die from it. Some are cured and stay cured, while others get constant recurring growths. Why is every case so different? Why can’t we find a formula that always works? Because God is involved. He has a far more important goal in mind than curing our physical bodies. He is after our souls.

GETTING OUR ATTENTION

God wants creatures who willingly choose Him, He doesn’t want robots. So while He controls every atom in existence, He also gives us some degree of choice. On a soul level, we are given the option to accept or reject Him. God wants His relationship with us to be a two-way street, not something He rams down our throats. He then spends our whole lives arranging events and experiences that will entice us to seek Him out. What happens when we see a child dying in front of us? We start asking why. We start looking for a cosmic source of justice. We start wondering if life really is some random set of coincidences, or if there could be some purpose to it all. We reevaluate our own lives and wonder if we’re really living for what is important. When the child dies, we look for some external source of comfort that can fill the void in our hearts. We wonder what our child found on the other side of death. We wonder what we will find when our turn comes.

It is when we feel helpless and distressed that we remember God. Too often that is the only time we remember Him. If we had our way, we’d erase all pain from this world and thereby take away one of God’s most effective means of securing our attention. Then we’d all become completely self-absorbed and totally ignore His existence. Does God smile on this plan? Not hardly. Our Creator loves us too much to let us walk away from Him without a fight. He will do anything it takes to intensify our interest in Him

God is the One who makes pain feel stronger when children are involved. Any good parent would much rather suffer themselves than watch their children suffer. This is the way it is supposed to be. God has set up levels of suffering on this earth. All trials are not equal. Some we can easily cope with, others temporarily devastate us. God inflicts children with incurable tumors when He has determined that only extreme measures will accomplish the soul changes He is after. It doesn’t always mean people are fighting Him. Sometimes there is no rebellion at all, yet God has decided it is time to push souls on to the next level of maturity. In every case, He carefully arranges which lives will cross paths, and the intensity of each person’s exposure to the suffering child. Some will sit at the bedside in hospitals, up close to the agony, while others will only receive brief updates through the internet. Every position is carefully arranged by God to spark conversations between Him and us. When a friend of ours is hurting, our natural instinct is to pray for them and tell God to stop doing what He’s doing. Our advice is utterly useless, and our wishes often misguided, but by getting us to talk to Him, God hopes that we’ll be willing to do some listening as well. He has things He wants to teach us in these moments. He isn’t just stirring us up so we can tell Him how to better run His universe. If we want to grow from these experiences, we must be willing to let God lead us instead of trying to lead Him.

When souls cooperate with God beautiful things happen. We change into something better than we were before. Our trust in God deepens. Our perspective of life shifts closer to the eternal viewpoint. Our priorities improve. Even if the changes are only temporary, they are worth it, for we will be all the swifter to respond to Him the next time a crisis arises. It is only when we close our hearts to God that we stagnate. When we demand healing, and even threaten to walk away from Him unless He gives us what we want, we only end up harming ourselves. God is not going to take orders from us. He will continue to do what He knows is best for hundreds of people, even though we selfishly demand that He care only about our personal pain.

If we are to thrive through suffering, we must recognize that there is a bigger picture involved. God is a multitasker who is always accomplishing many things at once. Yes, our suffering matters to Him very much, but to ask Him to stop caring about every other soul who is being positively affected by our pain is going too far. Instead of accusing God of being cruel, we need to give Him the trust He deserves. God knows what is best for us. As parents, we should be well acquainted with the principle that what a child needs is not always what a child will enjoy receiving. It is the same with us and God. He has promised to do what is best for us, even when it requires some misery on our part. The question now becomes, are we going to trust His judgment? Or are we going to insist that we know better than He does and wallow in self-pity? If we are wise, we will not go through life defining ourselves by the pain we have gone through, and the loved ones we have lost. Instead, we will let pain accomplish its good work in us and then let it go. In this world, God uses evil to bring about a greater good. If we align with His Spirit, He will teach us how to thrive through all forms of suffering.

Stephenie Wolfstar #fundie quotev.com

This one should keep us thinking.
This is a true story of something that just happened a few years ago in USC.

There was a professor of philosophy there who was a deeply committed atheist. His primary goal was for one required class was to spend the entire semester proving that God does not exist. To prove that God couldn't possibly exist. His students were always afraid to argue with him because of his impeccable logic. Sure, some had argued in class time, but no one had ever really gone up against him because of his reputation. At the end of every semester, on the last day, he would say to his 300 students: "If there is anyone here who still believes in Jesus, stand up!" In twenty years, no one ever stood up. They knew what he was going to do next. He would say: "Because anyone who believes in God is a fool. If God existed, he could stop this piece of chalk from hitting the ground and breaking. Such a simple task to prove that He is God, and yet He can't do it." And every year, he would drop the chalk onto the tile floor of the classroom and it would shatter into a million pieces. All of the students would do nothing but stop and stare. Most of the students thought that God couldn't possibly exist. Certainly, a number of Christians had slipped through, but for twenty years, they had been too afraid to stand up.

Well, a few years ago there was a freshman who happened to enroll. He was a Christian, and had heard the stories about his professor. He was required to take the class for his major, and he was afraid. But for three months that semester, he prayed every morning that he would have the courage to stand up no matter what the professor said, or what the class might of thought. Nothing they said could ever shatter his faith...he hoped.

Finally, the day came. The professor said: "If there is anyone here who still believes in God, stand up!" The professor and the class of 300 students looked at him, shocked, as he stood up at the back of the classroom. The professor shouted, "You fool! If God existed, he would keep this piece of chalk from breaking when it hit the ground!" He proceeded to drop the chalk, but as he did, it slipped out of his fingers, off his shirt cuff, onto the pleat of his pants, down his leg, and off of his shoe. As it hit the ground, it simply rolled away....unbroken. The professor's jaw dropped as he stared at the chalk. He looked up at the young man, and then ran out of the lecture hall. The young man, who had stood, proceeded to walk to the front of the class and shared his faith in Jesus for the next half an hour. 300 students stayed and listened as he told of God's love for them and of His power through Jesus.

You have two choices:
1. Pretend you never read this.
2. Pass this along to your Christian and non-Christian friends, giving them encouragement we all need everyday.

When you choose option two, you have chosen to STAND UP.

In the light of jokes we tell to one another for a laugh, this is a little different.
but t
This is not intended to be a joke, it's not funny, it's intended to get you thinking.......

Isn't it funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world is going to hell?

Isn't it funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says?

Isn't it funny how everyone wants to go to heaven, provided they do not have to believe, think, say, or do anything the Bible says? Or is it scary?

Isn't it funny how someone can say, "I believe in God," but still follow Satan? (who, by the way, also "believes" in God)

Isn't it funny how you can send a thousand jokes through e-mail and they spread like wildfire but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing?

Isn't it funny how the lewd, crude, vulgar, and obscene pass freely through cyberspace, but the public of discussion of Jesus is suppressed in schools and work spaces?

Isn't it funny how someone could be fired up for Christ on Sunday, but be an invisible Christian for the rest of the week?

Are you laughing?!

Isn't it funny how when you tell someone this, you won't because you're not sure what they believe, or what they will think of you for telling them?

Isn't it funny how I can be more worried about what other people think of me than what God thinks of me?

Will YOU pass this on?

I did.

dumb dumb #fundie answers.yahoo.com

do athiests really believe?

God by the very nature of God exists. To disprove God, one must end communication, because the word God is the only proof that is logically necessary to argue for God's existence. The word is God and God is the word. So, by believing in disbelief they proove that they acknowledge language whis is logically proving that they, in fact, believe (all though they claim not to) in God.

Got Questions #fundie gotquestions.org

Question: "Why is the idea of eternal damnation so repulsive to many people?"

Answer: In the shifting winds of modern cultures, the idea of everlasting torment and damnation is difficult for many people to grasp. Why is this? The Bible makes it clear that hell is a literal place. Christ spoke more about hell than He did of heaven. Not only Satan and his minions will be punished there, everyone who rejects Jesus Christ will spend eternity right along with them. A desire to reject or revise the doctrine of hell will not mitigate its flames or make the place go away. Still, the idea of eternal damnation is spurned by many, and here are some reasons for it:

The influence of contemporary thought. In this postmodern era, many go to great lengths to assure no one is offended, and the biblical doctrine of hell is considered offensive. It is too harsh, too old-fashioned, too insensitive. The wisdom of this world is focused on this life, with no thought of the life to come.

Fear. Never-ending, conscious punishment devoid of any hope is indeed a frightening prospect. Many people would rather ignore the source of fear than face it and deal with it biblically. The fact is, hell should be frightening, considering it is the place of judgment originally created for the devil and his angels (Matthew 25:41).

A flawed view of God’s love. Many who reject the idea of eternal damnation do so because they find it difficult to believe that a loving God could banish people to a place as horrific as hell for all eternity. However, God’s love does not negate His justice, His righteousness, or His holiness. Neither does His justice negate His love. In fact, God’s love has provided the way to escape His wrath: the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross (John 3:16-18).

A downplaying of sin. Some find it shockingly unfair that the recompense for a mere lifetime of sinning should be an eternal punishment. Others reject the idea of hell because, in their minds, sin isn’t all that bad. Certainly not bad enough to warrant eternal torture. Of course, it is usually our own sin that we downplay; other people might deserve hell—murderers and the like. This attitude reveals a misunderstanding of the universally heinous nature of sin. The problem is an insistence on our own basic goodness, which precludes thoughts of a fiery judgment and denies the truth of Romans 3:10 (“There is no one righteous, not even one”). The egregiousness of iniquity compelled Christ to the cross. God hated sin to death.

Aberrant theories. Another reason people reject the concept of eternal damnation is that they have been taught alternative theories. One such theory is universalism, which says that everyone will eventually make it to heaven. Another theory is annihilationism, in which the existence of hell is acknowledged, but its eternal nature is denied. Annihilationists believe that those who end up in hell will eventually die and cease to exist (i.e., they will be annihilated). This theory simply makes hell a temporary punishment. Both these theories are presented as viable options to the biblical teaching on hell; however, both make the mistake of placing human opinion over divine revelation.

Incomplete teaching. Many contemporary pastors who do believe in the doctrine of hell consider it simply too delicate a subject to preach on. This further contributes to the modern denial of hell. Congregants in churches where hell is not preached are ignorant of what the Bible says on the subject and are prime candidates for deception on the issue. A pastor’s responsibility is “to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints” (Jude 1:3), not pick and choose what parts of the Bible to leave out.

Satan’s ploys. Satan’s first lie was a denial of judgment. In the Garden of Eden, the serpent told Eve, “You will not surely die” (Genesis 3:4). It is still one of Satan’s main tactics. “The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers” (2 Corinthians 4:4), and the blindness he produces includes a denial of God’s holy decrees. Convince the unsaved that there is no judgment, and they can “eat, drink and be merry” with no care for the future.

If we understand the nature of our Creator, we should have no difficulty understanding the concept of hell. “[God] is the Rock, His works are perfect, and all His ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is He” (Deuteronomy 32:4, emphasis added). His desire is that no one perish but that all come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9).

To contradict the Bible’s teaching on hell is to say, essentially, “If I were God, I would not make hell like that.” The problem with such a mindset is its inherent pride—it smugly suggests that we can improve on God’s plan. However, we are not wiser than God; we are not more loving or more just. Rejecting or revising the biblical doctrine of hell carries a sad irony, which one writer put this way: “The only result of attempts, however well meaning, to air-condition hell is to assure that more and more people wind up there.”

Got Questions Ministries #fundie gotquestions.org

Question: "Why is the idea of eternal damnation so repulsive to many people?"

Answer: In the shifting winds of modern cultures, the idea of everlasting torment and damnation is difficult for many people to grasp. Why is this? The Bible makes it clear that hell is a literal place. Christ spoke more about hell than He did of heaven. Not only Satan and his minions will be punished there, everyone who rejects Jesus Christ will spend eternity right along with them. A desire to reject or revise the doctrine of hell will not mitigate its flames or make the place go away. Still, the idea of eternal damnation is spurned by many, and here are some reasons for it:

The influence of contemporary thought. In this postmodern era, many go to great lengths to assure no one is offended, and the biblical doctrine of hell is considered offensive. It is too harsh, too old-fashioned, too insensitive. The wisdom of this world is focused on this life, with no thought of the life to come.

Fear. Never-ending, conscious punishment devoid of any hope is indeed a frightening prospect. Many people would rather ignore the source of fear than face it and deal with it biblically. The fact is, hell should be frightening, considering it is the place of judgment originally created for the devil and his angels (Matthew 25:41).

A flawed view of God’s love. Many who reject the idea of eternal damnation do so because they find it difficult to believe that a loving God could banish people to a place as horrific as hell for all eternity. However, God’s love does not negate His justice, His righteousness, or His holiness. Neither does His justice negate His love. In fact, God’s love has provided the way to escape His wrath: the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross (John 3:16-18).

A downplaying of sin. Some find it shockingly unfair that the recompense for a mere lifetime of sinning should be an eternal punishment. Others reject the idea of hell because, in their minds, sin isn’t all that bad. Certainly not bad enough to warrant eternal torture. Of course, it is usually our own sin that we downplay; other people might deserve hell—murderers and the like. This attitude reveals a misunderstanding of the universally heinous nature of sin. The problem is an insistence on our own basic goodness, which precludes thoughts of a fiery judgment and denies the truth of Romans 3:10 (“There is no one righteous, not even one”). The egregiousness of iniquity compelled Christ to the cross. God hated sin to death.

Aberrant theories. Another reason people reject the concept of eternal damnation is that they have been taught alternative theories. One such theory is universalism, which says that everyone will eventually make it to heaven. Another theory is annihilationism, in which the existence of hell is acknowledged, but its eternal nature is denied. Annihilationists believe that those who end up in hell will eventually die and cease to exist (i.e., they will be annihilated). This theory simply makes hell a temporary punishment. Both these theories are presented as viable options to the biblical teaching on hell; however, both make the mistake of placing human opinion over divine revelation.

Incomplete teaching. Many contemporary pastors who do believe in the doctrine of hell consider it simply too delicate a subject to preach on. This further contributes to the modern denial of hell. Congregants in churches where hell is not preached are ignorant of what the Bible says on the subject and are prime candidates for deception on the issue. A pastor’s responsibility is “to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints” (Jude 1:3), not pick and choose what parts of the Bible to leave out.

Satan’s ploys. Satan’s first lie was a denial of judgment. In the Garden of Eden, the serpent told Eve, “You will not surely die” (Genesis 3:4). It is still one of Satan’s main tactics. “The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers” (2 Corinthians 4:4), and the blindness he produces includes a denial of God’s holy decrees. Convince the unsaved that there is no judgment, and they can “eat, drink and be merry” with no care for the future.

If we understand the nature of our Creator, we should have no difficulty understanding the concept of hell. “[God] is the Rock, His works are perfect, and all His ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is He” (Deuteronomy 32:4, emphasis added). His desire is that no one perish but that all come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9).

To contradict the Bible’s teaching on hell is to say, essentially, “If I were God, I would not make hell like that.” The problem with such a mindset is its inherent pride—it smugly suggests that we can improve on God’s plan. However, we are not wiser than God; we are not more loving or more just. Rejecting or revising the biblical doctrine of hell carries a sad irony, which one writer put this way: “The only result of attempts, however well meaning, to air-condition hell is to assure that more and more people wind up there.”

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/eternal-damnation.html#ixzz3VMhetZD8

Michael Houdmann #fundie gotquestions.org

Question: "Why is the idea of eternal damnation so repulsive to many people?"

Answer: In the shifting winds of modern cultures, the idea of everlasting torment and damnation is difficult for many people to grasp. Why is this? The Bible makes it clear that hell is a literal place. Christ spoke more about hell than He did of heaven. Not only Satan and his minions will be punished there, everyone who rejects Jesus Christ will spend eternity right along with them. A desire to reject or revise the doctrine of hell will not mitigate its flames or make the place go away. Still, the idea of eternal damnation is spurned by many, and here are some reasons for it:

The influence of contemporary thought. In this postmodern era, many go to great lengths to assure no one is offended, and the biblical doctrine of hell is considered offensive. It is too harsh, too old-fashioned, too insensitive. The wisdom of this world is focused on this life, with no thought of the life to come.

Fear. Never-ending, conscious punishment devoid of any hope is indeed a frightening prospect. Many people would rather ignore the source of fear than face it and deal with it biblically. The fact is, hell should be frightening, considering it is the place of judgment originally created for the devil and his angels (Matthew 25:41).

A flawed view of God’s love. Many who reject the idea of eternal damnation do so because they find it difficult to believe that a loving God could banish people to a place as horrific as hell for all eternity. However, God’s love does not negate His justice, His righteousness, or His holiness. Neither does His justice negate His love. In fact, God’s love has provided the way to escape His wrath: the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross (John 3:16-18).

A downplaying of sin. Some find it shockingly unfair that the recompense for a mere lifetime of sinning should be an eternal punishment. Others reject the idea of hell because, in their minds, sin isn’t all that bad. Certainly not bad enough to warrant eternal torture. Of course, it is usually our own sin that we downplay; other people might deserve hell—murderers and the like. This attitude reveals a misunderstanding of the universally heinous nature of sin. The problem is an insistence on our own basic goodness, which precludes thoughts of a fiery judgment and denies the truth of Romans 3:10 (“There is no one righteous, not even one”). The egregiousness of iniquity compelled Christ to the cross. God hated sin to death.

Aberrant theories. Another reason people reject the concept of eternal damnation is that they have been taught alternative theories. One such theory is universalism, which says that everyone will eventually make it to heaven. Another theory is annihilationism, in which the existence of hell is acknowledged, but its eternal nature is denied. Annihilationists believe that those who end up in hell will eventually die and cease to exist (i.e., they will be annihilated). This theory simply makes hell a temporary punishment. Both these theories are presented as viable options to the biblical teaching on hell; however, both make the mistake of placing human opinion over divine revelation.

Incomplete teaching. Many contemporary pastors who do believe in the doctrine of hell consider it simply too delicate a subject to preach on. This further contributes to the modern denial of hell. Congregants in churches where hell is not preached are ignorant of what the Bible says on the subject and are prime candidates for deception on the issue. A pastor’s responsibility is “to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints” (Jude 1:3), not pick and choose what parts of the Bible to leave out.

Satan’s ploys. Satan’s first lie was a denial of judgment. In the Garden of Eden, the serpent told Eve, “You will not surely die” (Genesis 3:4). It is still one of Satan’s main tactics. “The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers” (2 Corinthians 4:4), and the blindness he produces includes a denial of God’s holy decrees. Convince the unsaved that there is no judgment, and they can “eat, drink and be merry” with no care for the future.

If we understand the nature of our Creator, we should have no difficulty understanding the concept of hell. “[God] is the Rock, His works are perfect, and all His ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is He” (Deuteronomy 32:4, emphasis added). His desire is that no one perish but that all come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9).

To contradict the Bible’s teaching on hell is to say, essentially, “If I were God, I would not make hell like that.” The problem with such a mindset is its inherent pride—it smugly suggests that we can improve on God’s plan. However, we are not wiser than God; we are not more loving or more just. Rejecting or revising the biblical doctrine of hell carries a sad irony, which one writer put this way: “The only result of attempts, however well meaning, to air-condition hell is to assure that more and more people wind up there.”

David J. Stewart #fundie #psycho jesus-is-savior.com

Every Christian should have a healthy hate life. This nonsense circulating in churches today about love, cooperation and unity that doesn't hate sin, false religion and the works of the Devil is demonic. You can't truly love anything without hating that which is harmful to what you love.

The wicked people in this world who live in unrepentant sin against God refuse to accept this truth. God hates evil and commands all believers to hate evil. Wicked and unreasonable people attempt to REDEFINE God by corrupting the Bible and twisting the truth (Romans 1:25). This is why so many corrupt Bibles have been marketed over the past few decades.

A good example is the Godless New Oxford Annotated Bible which was recently published. This work of darkness was written by pro-homosexuals; in it they REMOVE all Biblical passages condemning Sodomy to make it acceptable to the homosexual community. It is wicked! God hates a false witness that speaketh lies (Proverb 6:19). God is a Holy God and His love NEVER condones or permits our sin! It was God's love that sent Jesus Christ into the world to pay for our sins. Apart from the redeeming work of Christ upon the cross, mankind would have been doomed to Hell forever. Thanks be to God for His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ! Oh listen friend, it's Jesus or Hell!

Concerning God, you'll find the word "hate" several times more than the word "love" throughout the Bible. Yes God loves, but He hates wickedness and idolatry. Proverbs 6:16-19 teaches that God hates lying, a proud look, hands that shed innocent blood, a false witness that telleth lies, feet that are quick to mischief and he that soweth discord amongst brethren (gossip is the best way to do that). God hates gossip, whether true or false, because gossip destroys lives and causes MUCH emotional pain.

thinksee #fundie thinksee.wordpress.com

Occam’s Razor leading us to God
image
Well, I think Occam’s Razor (why we have to use it, I don’t know), itself leads us to existence of God.
The existence of me, myself, a conscious being is a big problem which has to be answered. The only way we can explain is that, there is one being, existed without the existence of anything else. Nobody uses Occam’s Razor this way. I do not know why! The question is always like this: “God exists or we created him.” resulting “we created him.” But this does not answer who created “me”? What is “me”? There is no easy answer to this.
What about “It is, because it is.”? Well, then “God is, because He is!”
“Nothingness results in existence.” Well, then what is a “result”? What is “resulting”? Are you sure you can understand the notion “nothingness”. Do you think anybody can? Nothingness is nothing! There is nothing in nothingness! (Can we even say that?) What a fallacy to think there is (I just said “There is”! Then it is not nothingness!) a resulting force in nothingness. (“In nothingness”, whatever it means!) This makes the nothingness God!
Well, we have to accept that there is an eternal being!
This leads us to that, this being, which can exist only depending his self, has to be perfect, because a perfectness like not having a beginning cannot be compared to anything else in any sense. Being not comparable to anything means being perfect then anything. (How true that is!) The notion ‘part’ is a part of our universe, which also our limits our thinking, and does not apply to the One. So, we come to that He is One, He is not like anything and He is above everything. Why? Whatever exists depends on Him to exist, so they can lose their existence by His will. Having a dependency for its own existence is the biggest weakness! Anything except God is like that.
“If there is God, why I do not see him?”
How can you see him? God is not imaginable and is not imprisoned in time and space? Seeing is a physical event done by eyes, ears, tongue, nose, skin! How can we think that, we can imprison God into such senses? In this sense, also the question “Where is God?” is illogical itself. We cannot even say God is inside the universe or outside. The notion “place” is a creation itself.
Thinking! Thinking is enough proof of God. I can think and nothingness cannot result in a concious thinking being! That is obvious and clear. My consciousness can only be given by One who is conscious.
Let’s come to the poetry of the existence, physics! Who wrote it? Why there is a consistency? Why this consistency never falls apart? What is the secret behind that a proton is connected to an electron, in the same way, with the same equations, everywhere? Or let me ask the question this way, an experiment (science is only experiments!) resulting in the same equations is the guarantee of this equations? Anybody who read some philosophy of science knows that science cannot give us facts, it cannot answer the question “what?” and “why?”, it only ‘tries’ to answer “how?”. It cannot tell you why there is a relation between A and B, tell you how the relation works. Science has no aims of truths or facts, it is not the way. If you ‘believe’ in science, you have a religion of the ’cause and effect’ god. Cause and effect relations are not provable, unless they are absolute, which is only the case when we accept the existense of God and know that He is the only Cause for any single thing. If after A, comes B, it is because every single time God wants so.
That is all clear, believe or not believe.
No power, no force but God. That is the simple, absolute truth.
(I would write more, but I think it is enough for the one understands.)

ArtNGame215 #fundie deviantart.com

(=A comic straw manning Universalism followed by the authors description=)

Christian upon appearing in Heaven: Yaayyyyy!!! I'm in Heaven! It's so amazing here! Praise God! Praise-

(*Christian stops with a dejected look on his face*)

Christian: Um...Lord why is this famous atheist here...in heaven ?

God: Oh...because I love him and he doesn't deserve Hell.

Christian: But he hated you! He fought you and your teachings. He attacked all Christians...

God: True...but he's a good moral man. He's a wonderful person and very, very intelligent.

Christian (*Looking More Dejected*): There's a scammer here to. He used the Bible to scam people and preach a false gospel. He scammed millions off your followers.

God: Yes, yes. But he was still following my laws and preaching the gospel anyways.

Christian: Oh my goodness...that famous dictator is here to...

God: Yes, everyone is here! Isn't that great! I love everyone! Don't judge my decisions.

Christian: He killed millions of people! Including many Christians!

God: I said don't judge my decisions.

Christian (*Looking absolutely mortified*): Wait a minute...Lord, you mean I could have lived my life any way I wanted to and still be in heaven ?

God: That's right! I said Hell is only for the devil and his angels! I love everyone and no one deserves Hell!

Authors description: If the belief of Universalism was true, then maybe God would be something like this? Where everyone goes to heaven, no matter what.

Many people can't believe God would send people to Hell and refuse to believe it, claiming God is a kind, loving god. Which He is, but God is also a God of justice and holiness, but they deny what the Bible clearly shows multiple times about Hell, that is where people will go if they don't follow Jesus.

If people deny God and His existance and refuse to follow His ways, or follow their own version of God, why do they deserve a place in heaven?

Sadly, the idea that Hell doesn't exist and that it's only a state of mind is starting to get more popular with Christians, especially with those in the Emergent Church movement.

Remember what Jesus said in John 14:6 "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

AnalogReigns #fundie freerepublic.com

Very odd for someone who believes God is non-existant, to hate Him so much. I for one know of no one who hates Santa Claus like this....

Pullman frankly sounds vile and evil—anti-Christ if you will. No one would have such motivation against a phantom; clearly Pullman knows God exists, and so therefore hates Him all the more....

This new militant atheist crowd ironically proves God’s existence more than the “I don’t know & I don’t care” agnostics.

mat740 #fundie youtube.com

Nicholas Copernicus- Believed in God

Johannes Kepler- Believed in God

Galileo Galilei- Believed in God

Isaac Newton- Believed in God

Albert Einstien- Believed in God

Stephen Hawking- Atheist,quadruplegic, unable to speak

Get the picture??

WorldGoneCrazy #fundie disqus.com

(attempting to prove God exists)

Kalam Cosmological Argument for the Existence of God:

Premise 1. Whatever begins to exist has a cause.
Premise 2. The universe began to exist.
Conclusion: Therefore, the universe had a Cause.

God is the (first uncaused) Cause. We know that since space, time, and matter had a beginning at the Big Bang, this Cause MUST transcend space, time, and matter. In other words, the Cause must be spaceless, timeless, and non-material. We also know that this Cause MUST be immensely powerful, right, in order to create 100 billion galaxies out of (literally) nothing?!? We can also surmise that this Cause must be personal, in some sense, as It has chosen to create, and only personal agents can create, to our knowledge. Moreover, this Cause has chosen to create (or allow the creation of) persons (that's us!) - indicating strongly that It is personal.

This Cause is also self-existing, right? We know that either the universe (or multiverses, if they exist) are self-existing OR the Cause of same is self-existing. (Those are really the 2 options we have.) But, since the secular data points toward the universe having a beginning (and overwhelmingly so), then we must conclude that the First Uncaused Cause is self-existing.
There is also a way to argue that this Cause is immutable or changeless. Let's not get into that too much, but it's worth thinking about on your own, OK?

So, we have: spaceless, timeless, non-material, immensely powerful, personal free will, self-existing, changeless. That sounds a LOT like Yahweh, no? All we are really missing is omnispresent, omniscient, and holy. There are arguments there as well, particularly for the first two. In summary, we have e stablished, through metaphysical analysis only, many of the prime characteristics of the Judeo-Christian God (the Father in Christian theology) Yahweh. So, He was there in the Kalam argument all along.

Moral Argument for the Existence of God:

Premise 1: If there is no God, then objective moral values do not exist.
Premise 2: Objective evil exists.
Conclusion 1: Therefore, objective moral values DO exist.
Conclusion 2: Therefore, God exists.

Here are 3 more reasons to back up Premise 1:

1. Under naturalism, the only things that exist are those things described by and measured with science. Objective moral values do not apply. You cannot locate moral values in a test tube.

2. Why would human beings, under Darwinism, have any objective moral value? We are, in that view, just byproducts of macro-evolution and social conditioning - no objective moral values there. In fact, rewind the clock and play evolution over again, and you will, based on the randomness involved, get something entirely different:

“If … men were reared under precisely the same conditions as hive-bees, there can hardly be any doubt that our unmarried females would, like the worker-bees, think it a sacred duty to kill their brothers, and mothers would strive to kill their fertile daughters; and no one would think of interfering.” Charles Darwin, “The Descent of Man and Selection in Relation to Sex,” p. 100.

3. As for moral duties, we would have no more basis for them than any other animal. That means that, as in the animal kingdom, we can kill or rape for any reason whatsoever - animals are not restricted by some sort of "traffic cop" in doing so. There is no one saying "OK, Mr. Lion, you can take out that gazelle, but only if you eat all of him." :-)

Conclusion 1 is based on identity with Premise 2. If objective evil exists, then at least one objective moral value (evil) must exist. So, it is a restatement of Premise 2 based on the identity function of logic, perfectly acceptable. All we have to show Conclusion 1 is to find just one objective mor al value, and we did - objective evil.

Once we have Premise 1 and Conclusion 1, then by Modus Tollens, we necessarily have Conclusion 2. That's the second proof for God's existence.

Fine-Tuning Argument for the Existence of God:

Premise 1: The fine-tuning of the universe is due to either physical necessity, chance, or design.
Premise 2: It is not due to physical necessity or chance.
Conclusion: Therefore, it is due to design.

Now, it must be noted that both Dawkins and Sir Martin Rees reject the possibility that it is due to physical necessity because the fine-tuning constants are independent of the physical laws of the universe. That is a key point: the G in the universal gravitational formula could, in theory, be anything - but if it were much different, no life whatsoever could exist - not just life as we know it, but no life.

Additionally, we would be forced, if what you say is true, to conclude that a life-prohibiting universe is a physical impossibility. That just seems to be a fantastic conclusion that would require some evidence. Why couldn't there exist a universe with no life whatsoever? Huge parts of our universe cannot support any kind of life. You would have to share some burden here yourself to provide a line of thought for why this might be true.

Even under M-theory, or superstring theory, the overwhelming number of possible universes are life-prohibiting. So, such a theory would seem to compound the need for showing physical necessity. It is an interesting line you are taking here, but I would like to see a little bit of evidence to support why that is true. I have provided several arguments against it, but I am open to your views in support of it.

Michael #fundie uk.answers.yahoo.com

Is Allah in Hell for not believing in God?
Since the Christian God is obviously the real one, does that mean Allah is in Hell for not believing in him?

Best Answer - Chosen by Asker

Allah, buddha, the god of Jehovah Witnesses works, the mormon god, all the 300 million hindu gods and other gods are there. Every knee shall confess that Jesus is Lord.

Asker's Comment:
Yeah, God's going to send all those other imaginary Gods to Hell for sure.

David J. Stewart #fundie jesus-is-savior.com

Lauren Daigle: Critics of 'The Ellen DeGeneres Show' Appearance 'Completely Missed the Heart of God'

...The Christian artist appeared on the mainstream show Oct. 24 and received criticism on social media over her involvement. Most of the critics argued Daigle was wrong to appear on the show because Ellen is a lesbian.

“I think the second we start drawing lines around which people are able to be approached and which aren't, we've already completely missed the heart of God,” Daigle told WAY-FM Radio.

“I don't have all the answers in life and I'm definitely not gonna act like I do, but the one thing that I know for sure is I can't choose who I'm supposed to be kind to and who I'm supposed to show love to and who I'm not, because that's the mission right?" she continued. "Be who Christ was to everyone.”

SOURCE: https://www.christianpost.com/news/lauren-daigle-critics-ellen-degeneres-show-appearance-completely-missed-the-heart-of-god-228354/

First of all, Daigle is NO Christian! As I showed you earlier, nowhere in her vague testimony does she even mention the cross upon which Christ died. She doesn't mention the Gospel at all. No one has ever been saved apart from faith alone in the Gospel. That is, the Good News of Jesus Christ crucified to death on the cross, buried, and bodily risen the third day (1st Corinthians 15:1-6).

Second, Miss Daigle uses love as an excuse to show support for homosexuality. It is very wrong for any professed Christian to appear on a lesbian's show. By doing so, Lauren endorses the Ellen DeGeneres Show, which is why Ellen praised her. You see, the homosexual community want to be accepted by the Christian community in their unrepentant state, which is as evil as the sins of abortion or adultery. Homosexuality is a filthy deathstyle, against nature and gross sin! Albeit, I do believe that homosexuals CAN still be saved.

Third, it is utter wickedness and foolishness for Lauren to say that critics of her appearance on the Ellen DeGeneres Show
“Completely miss the heart of God.” What a sinful thing to say!!! No, Lauren Daigle doesn't know God! The God of the Holy Bible is a holy God, Who does not cater to sinners, does not hobnob with the world. What saith the Scripture? James 4:4, “Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.” According to the Scriptures, Miss Daigle is an ENEMY OF GOD! We all have our faults. We are all sinners. I do not condemn anybody. God's law in the Holy Bible condemns all humanity, which brings physical death (Romans 5:12), and then eternal damnation in Hell (Revelation 20:15)! Lauren is God's enemy, yet she falsely accuses faithful Christians of missing God's love. Lauren is either woefully or willfully ignorant of the Scriptures!!!

Lauren speaks as a fool, because she is one! She says the believer's “mission” is to love everyone, but the Bible never says that. Although it is true that a Christian who is right with God will love everyone, love does not allow sinful compromise! it is not love what Lauren is doing by promoting her music on a queer television show. In fact, she loves the world, not the Lord Jesus Christ! The Bible commands every believer not to love the world, nor the things in the world (1st John 2:15-17), but to come out from among them and be ye separate (2nd Corinthians 6:14-17). If Lauren wanted to appear on Ellen's ungodly show, she never should have defended her actions, which is why I wrote this article. We all do wrong sometimes, but I'm not going to make excuses for it!

What Lauren did was wrong, period. Ellen DeGeneres is an ungodly heathen who is married to another lesbian, living in open defiance against a holy God. Do you really think that ungodly people who masquerade as Christians, appearing on Ellen's show, is going to win the sodomites to Christ? Not a chance in a million!!! The world is becoming more churchy these days, because the churches are becoming so worldly. That is way Pastor Steven Furtick of the Elevation Church in North Carolina leads his congregation jamming to Joan Jett's infamous song, “I Love Rock N' Roll,” on his electric guitar. That is of the Devil! Worldly people love a worldly pastor and a worldly church, but that is not Bible Christianity!!! John 7:7, “The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.”

A believer who truly walks with God abides continually in the Word of God, which we have in the inspired King James Bible. These modern Bible versions are all of the Devil! And a believer who abides in God's Word and loves the Lord, hates evil. Psalms 97:10, “Ye that love the LORD, hate evil: he preserveth the souls of his saints; he delivereth them out of the hand of the wicked.”

I did not write and publish this article to be unkind, but to shed light on the truth that there is nothing even remotely Christian about Lauren Daigle's testimony as given to the Salvation Army (which I shared with you earlier). And also, to expose the lies of Lauren Daigle on the Ellen DeGeneres Show, denouncing those who rightly criticized her for appearing on Ellen's ungodly show. Miss DeGeneres is an ungodly icon in the ungodly homosexual community, who is relentless doing her best to promote the ungodly abomination of sodomy. I sound like Jude (read the book of Jude and see how many times he mentions the word “ungodly”).

Lauren Daigle is ungodly too! Her opinions as expressed on Ellen's show are totally worldly and unscriptural. Love speaks the truth! Pastor Steven Anderson is considered to be a hatemonger by the ungodly world, for denouncing the homosexual community. Although I know that God loves everyone, including unrepentant homosexuals, I also know that God equally hates all sin! God hates homosexuality! If God hates homos, then He also hates the gossiper, the adulterer, the covetous person, the drunkard and the unjust critic!

Anton Bruckner #fundie puritanboard.com

I think the question of Ordaining versus Permitting is dependent on if we believe God owes mankind something or not.

The Ordaining people which I am a part of assumes that God owes mankind nothing, hence He can harden Pharoah and get him to do specific wicked acts by which God will glorify Himself by conquering. It is because God owes mankind nothing, that He could sent Lying Spirits in the mouths of prophets to deceive Ahab, likewise He can also send strong delusions that they may believe a lie. He can likewise speak in parables to shield the truth from then, least they be converted and their sins forgiven.

Permitting believes that God owes mankind something. This something that is owed, is to behave like a man and constrain oneself to the laws and ethics of which man are subjected to. Because mankind is not allowed to sin and is judged because of sin, many assume that God ordaining sin for His own purposes is like man sinning. So they take away the ordaining, and say that God permits sin, which is nothing more than a passive quasi ordination being made allowable by a loop hole.

Heck, but this thing is much more simple, if it is God's goal to manifest and to glorify Himself by exercizing His diverse attributes, of which one of these attributes is Justice, then it follows that God must make something liable for justice. Now if God makes something liable for His justice and executes His justice, how is that sin???????????????? "Endured with much patience the vessels fitted for destruction". God making something liable for such and such, and executing what that thing is liable for in no way impugns God.

People usually believe the permitting thingie because God becomes much more scary if He is an ordainer of all events, and that all events that He ordains are ordained for the sole purpose of glorifying Himself.

But a Scary God is a good thing for humans :D A Scary God puts them in their place and emasculates them, humbles them, and make them tremble, pricks there conscience and let them feel powerless.

graphicartist2k5 #fundie cinemablend.com

[This is a comment following a positive review of Bill Maher's film Religulous]


gee, so bill maher has "bar charts" explaining who is not "religious". wow, i'm so proud of little billy maher. he finally figured out how to be more of a jackass than he already was. seriously, though, what in the blue hell does this guy think he's going to accomplish by coming out with a movie/documentary about atheists are teh best, and everyone should be an atheist? newsflash: there is NO such thing as an atheist. just the simple statement that atheists believe there is no God proves they do believe there IS a God, and that He does exist. let me explain. in order for ANY person to believe something doesn't exist, they must FIRST know that whatever it is they believe doesn't exist ALREADY existed. this is why atheists are so freaking mad all the time, whether or not they want to say it, because deep down in their deceived hearts, they KNOW God is there. by the way, how in the world is it possible for "humanity" to judge the "idea" of God, when God is the One who created ALL of humanity? who, exactly, do you think you are, garyb, that you can judge God, because by saying what you've said, that's what you obviously think. i bet you ANYTHING that when you're on your death bed, you're not going to be so gung-ho about judging God, or the idea of God, i should say. you won't even be THINKING about ways you can disprove God's existence, because you will be crying out to Him to save your soul. have you EVER heard the phrase, "there are no atheists in foxholes"? it's the truth.

Tercon #fundie forums.carm.org

I believe God is truth.
P1: If God is truth, then it is incoherent to believe God is not necessary.
P2: The proposition "God does not exist" is incoherent, so God is necessary.
P3: If God is necessary, truth is contingent and possible.
P4: A contingent truth is dependent on God’s exists in all possible worlds / states of affairs, or in none. (maximal excellence).
P5: The truth is contingent upon God.
C: Therefore, the experiencing of God is contingent upon one believing the truth; that God is truth.

JESUS CHRIST DISCIPLE #fundie #conspiracy godlikeproductions.com

THE HARLOT CHURCH THAT RIDES THE BEAST WILL BE ATTACKED BY THE BEAST AND BURNED WITH FIRE!!!

WHO IS BABYLON THE GREAT THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS THAT RIDES THE BEAST IN THE BOOK OF REVELATION???

To help us understand who the Great Harlot of Revelation is who rides the Beast, first we need to look into biblical history and examine God's relationship with the nation of Israel.

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GOD'S RELATIONSHIP AS A HUSBAND TO ISRAEL...

(Jeremiah 3:7) I thought that after she had done all these things, she would return to Me. But she did not return, and her unfaithful sister Judah saw it.
8 She sawa that because faithless Israel had committed adultery, I gave her a certificate of divorce and sent her away. Yet that unfaithful sister Judah had no fear and prostituted herself as well. 9 Indifferent to her own infidelity, Israel had defiled the land and committed adultery with stones and trees. 10 Yet in spite of all this, her unfaithful sister Judah did not return to Me with all her heart, but only in pretense,” declares the LORD.

(Jeremiah 31:32) It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them, ” declares the LORD.

God’s marriage covenant with Israel (Eze 16:8-14) The covenant at Sinai was seen as a form of marriage. See also (Jer 31:32; Eze 16:59-60).

God as Israel’s husband (Isa 54:5) See also (Hos 2:7; Joel 1:8).

Israel’s early devotion (Jer 2:2) See also (Eze 16:43; Hos 2:15).

The breakdown of God's marriage and Israels unfaithfulness...

Ezekiel chapter 16 the whole chapter speaks of israels prostitution and harlotry to foreign nations-
(Eze 16:26-32) You prostituted yourself with your lustful neighbors, the Egyptians, and increased your promiscuity to provoke Me to anger.
Then you prostituted yourself with the Assyrians, because you were not yet satisfied. Even after that, you were still not satisfied. So you extended your promiscuity to Chaldea,a the land of merchants—but even with this you were not satisfied!
You adulterous wife! You receive strangers instead of your own husband!

Israel’s adultery (Jer 3:20) See also (Jer 2:32; Eze 16:32-34; Hos 1:2; Hos 9:1).

Israel’s alienation from God is likened to a divorce (Hos 2:2) Israel’s unfaithfulness led to a form of divorce between God and his people. This was sometimes identified with the exile. See also (Isa 50:1; Jer 3:6-10).

The renewal of God's marriage to Israel...

God calls his bride to return (Jer 3:12-14; Hos 3:1-3) See also (Isa 54:6-8; Hos 2:14).

The renewed relationship (Isa 62:4-5) See also (Jer 31:31-33; Eze 16:62; Hos 2:16,19-20)

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NOW WE CAN EXAMINE THE RELATIONSHIP OF JESUS CHRIST YESHUA TO THE CHURCH...

We the Church, believers, are engaged to Jesus Christ Yeshua, we must be loyal spiritual virgins...

For I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy, because I promised you in marriage to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ (2 Corinthians 11:2).

Jesus Christ’s love as a model for marriage (Eph 5:25-33).

Jesus Christ is described as a bridegroom (John 3:29). John the Baptist describes Jesus Christ as the bridegroom and himself as the best man. See also (Mt 9:15 pp Mk 2:19-20 pp Lk 5:34-35; Mt 22:2; Mt 25:1-13).

But soon when Jesus Christ Yeshua returns we spiritual Virgins who are engaged to him, will meet him in the air...

After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord (1 Thess 4:17).

In an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed (1 Cor 15:52).

And the witnesses heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Come up here." And they went up to heaven in a cloud as their enemies watched them (Rev 11:12).

Then we will Symbolicaly marry Jesus Christ Yeshua in the air and come back down to earth...

Revelation 21:2 I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Revelation 19:7 Let us rejoice and be glad and give Him the glory. For the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His bride has made herself ready.

Revelation 21:2 I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Revelation 21:9 Then one of the seven angels with the seven bowls full of the seven final plagues came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.”
10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the holy city of Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God,

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WE HAVE EXAMINED GOD'S MARRIAGE TO ISRAEL, AND JESUS CHRIST YESHUA'S ENGAGMENT, AND FUTURE MARRIAGE TO THE CHURCH, SPIRITUAL VIRGIN BELIEVERS...

We have learned that God hates disloyalty and immorality with foreign God's or the Kings of this earth, and is jealous for his son Yeshua's future bride, Virgin Believers, the Church (2 Cor 11:2).

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SO NOW WE CAN DETERMINE WHO BABYLON THE GREAT THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS IS???

We true Christians are Virgins because we are not immoral with the Kings of the Earth and do not ride the Beast!!!

But there are Christians who are Harlots, who are immoral with the Kings of the Earth, and ride the Beast, obeying the Beasts commands over God's commands
and worshiping the United Nations part of a Harlot church CHURCH AND STATE!!!

Then one of the seven angels with the seven bowls came and told me, "Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits on many waters (Revelation 17:1).

All the nations have drunk the wine of the passion of her immorality. The kings of the earth were immoral with her, (Revelation 18:3).

The kings of the earth were immoral with her, and those who dwell on the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her immorality.” (Rev 17:2).

And the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness, where I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast (UNITED NATIONS) that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns (Rev 17:3).

CONCLUSION: God hated when his own wife Israel cheated on him, and was disloyal to him, and made alliances with foreign God's or Nations.

CONCLUSION: God hates when we Christians, Believers, the Church, cheat on his son Jesus Christ Yeshua. God hates disloyalty, God does not accept CHURCH AND STATE, we are no part of Satans Kingdom his World.

CONCLUSION: We are Virgin Christians, we the Church must not be immoral with the Kings, Governments, World leaders, United Nations or the Beast.

CONCLUSION: We must not recieve the (MARK OF THE BEAST) The mark symbolizes obeying the Beasts commands over God's commands and worship of the Beast. We must not bend our knee to the Beast or be immoral with the Beast. CHURCH AND STATE is immorality. The Church, Believers, Christians must not obey the beasts commands over Gods commands or worship the United Nations this is considered riding the Beast being immoral with the Beast it is Harlotry.

.............................................................​............

SO WHO IS BABYLON THE GREAT THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS THAT RIDES THE BEAST IN THE BOOK OF REVELATION???

It is the VATICAN PAPACY and her daughters and all Churches or Christian believers that are immoral with the Kings of the earth or obey the Beasts commands over God's commands and worship the United Nations and ride the Beast.
They have the MARK OF THE BEAST!!!

.............................................................​............

IS BABYLON THE GREAT ALL RELIGIONS???

Babylon the great the mother of harlots is not all pagan religions as some christian cults teach!!!

Pagan religions were never right in God's eyes in the first place, they were never in a spiritual relationship with him or his son, so how could they become a harlot???

It is God's Church his people Christians who have apostasized and have played the harlot!!!

You can not be immoral if you are not in a spiritual relationship!!! And pagan religions have never been in a spiritual relationship with God or his son Yeshua!!!

The Church, Believers, are in a spiritual relationship with Yeshua, and if they cheat on him or are disloyal, and lose their spiritual virginity... Only then can they be called spiritually immoral a harlot!!!

THIS IS WHY GOD SAYS COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE!!!

Then I heard another voice from heaven say: “Come out of her, My people, so that you will not share in her sins or contract any of her plagues (Rev 18:4).


WE MUST LEAVE ALL HARLOT CHURCHES!!!

Tony Miano #fundie crossencountersmin.com

The phrase “allahu Akbar” is a lie. Why is it a lie? It is a lie because it is an Islamic phrase in reference to the false god of Islam. The god of Islam does not exist. That which does not exist cannot be great. It cannot be anything at all.

Like the atheist who is in denial when he shouts “God does not exist,” the Muslim is in denial when he shouts “Allahu Akbar.” Both the Atheist and the Muslim deny the God they know exists. The atheist replaces the God he knows exists with the man in the mirror. The Muslim replaces the God he knows exists with Allah. Both the atheist and the Muslim chant to a false god–a false god he wants to believe is great–greater than the one, true, and living God they know exists.

Infinite Architect & ThyWordIsTruth #fundie youtube.com

(=A comment thread in a Universalist educational video=)

Infinite Architect: You are a false teacher preaching annihilationism which is unbiblical. You will be held accountable for everyone you deceive.? [...] Did you even watch it? He is saying hell is just a temporary place where you get "refined" and you will eventually make it to heaven and the devil is going to heaven too. This is total heresy and sends a dangerous message to lost people because it makes them think they will escape eternal Hell and they can sin all they want and not have to worry. This clown thinks he has stumbled across special knowledge but he is just a fool twisting scripture and preaching some strange perverted form of Universalism. You can follow him into Hell if you want, it's your freewill to do so.?

ThyWordIsTruth: AMEN brother. Here we go again, someone trying to correct the Greek and Hebrew and using their own private interpretation. Now to the OWNER OF THIS CHANNEL, your problem is that you've either been deceived by a reprobate bible scholar or you hate what the word of God says. Revelation 14:11 KJV says: " And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name." Apparently you have more knowledge than 54 of some of the worlds greatest scholars who translated the King James Bible and you obviously believe in a "god" who cannot perfectly preserve his word for future generations. You are a fool and if you don't repent and TRULY put your faith in the Lord Jesus of the BIBLE, you will find out that the lake of fire is a place of eternal torment.

truth96130: @ Infinite Architect Just because people believe that judgment is not forever, that does not mean they will think they can sin all they like with no consequences. There are many crimes that do not have a life sentence.Does everyone think (I think I will commit all those crimes because the punishment is not forever)? Nope.?

ThyWordIsTruth: If you are gullible enough to believe this man than you have a big problem. Not only is he wrong but in denying the TRUTH of eternal hell is to deny a fundamental of the Christian faith! Also it is NOT foolish to believe that the KJV is the perfectly preserved word of God for the English speaking people. Have you heard the saying 'a little Greek is a dangerous thing?' Sometimes you have to call a spade a spade.?

truth96130: 1. "He is trying to correct the Greek and Hebrew and using their own private interpretation."-- What part of (the Greek word translated as torment, is touchstone) is a private interpretation ? Look it up before you accuse. 2. "He has either been deceived or hates what the word of God says." --Calling people deceived because they know something you did not know.
does not mean they are deceived. Try to study up on the Greek word they translated (torture) before you falsely accuse someone. 3. "Revelation 14:11" --Is the book of revelation filled with metaphors, symbols and figures of speech? Yes. Does torment have smoke? No. Does smoke rise up forever? No. Can there be a forever after forever? No because the first forever will never end. Can people never rest? Only if they have an infinite amount of energy. Do people have an infinite amount of energy? No. Apparently your taking what is not literal and trying to say it is. 4. "Apparently you have more knowledge than 54 of some of the worlds greatest scholars who translated the King James Bible." Question --If the KJV translators were so perfect in their translation, than why did they give Alternate translations to over 1000 bible verses (in the margins) and many of them had different meanings. If they got (the original one right) there is no need to put another one in the margins. 5. "You obviously believe in a "god" who cannot perfectly preserve his word for future generations." --Are you saying that God will not allow any one to make a miscopy in a bible? A) Yes. B) No. 6. "TRULY put your faith in the Lord Jesus of the BIBLE." --What name is the only one by which we must be saved??

truth96130: 1. Any one that interprets the bible differently than you do are all false teachers? When you become God, than you can assume your interpretation is perfect. 2. He is not deceiving people just because he interprets the bible differently than you do. 3. "This is total heresy." --No, what you were taught is heresy. Because it teaches God is the eternal oppressor and the opposite of the savor to the majority of mankind. 4. "He is a clown because he thinks he has special knowledge." --Personal attacks prove nothing. Back it up with scripture if you can. If you can't than you have no argument.?

Hope Remains: The KJV is just as flawed as any other English version. I have nearly 40 years experience working with scripture in the original languages, and taught Hebrew and Greek for many years. God preserved His word in the original languages. That preservation does NOT extend to any translation. The KJV translators were charged with creating a Bible that would support the teachings of the Anglican Church. As a result, they tampered with numerous verses to bring the Bible into line with church doctrine. Further, KJV, like some other versions, contains a verse the translators almost certainly knew was a fraud. 1 John 5:7, as found in KJV, et al, is called the Johannine Comma. It cannot be found in ANY ancient Greek manuscript of the New Testament, nor in any of the early Latin versions. It first appeared in late versions of the Vulgate, added by some anonymous monk copying over the text. It breaks the sense of the passage, and there is not a legitimate Bible scholar in the world who thinks John wrote it. It did not find its way into a Greek version until the 11th century, when someone scribbled it into the margin of a Greek New Testament. When Erasmus created his Greek manuscript, he revised it to agree with late versions of the Vulgate, which was a huge mistake. The translators of KJV chose to ignore all the ancient Greek texts at their disposal, and used primarily Erasmus' so-called Textus Receptus, a seriously flawed version. There is no real substitute for taking the time to learn the original languages and studying scripture as originally written. 2 Timothy 2:15.?

ThyWordIsTruth: You mean the translators of the KJV chose to ignore the manuscripts that don't agree with one another? So to have the perfect word of God we have to learn Greek and Hebrew, what rubbish. Well go on then take your Novum Testamentum Graece and preach it to people on the street.?

Hope Remains: Hmmm... perhaps you should work on your reading comprehension. There are small differences in all Greek manuscripts. No two agree completely. The KJV translators rejected all the older, more authoritative manuscripts, in favor of a flawed manuscript that was only about 100 years old. Now, if you want to put all your faith in a Bible translated (poorly) from that flawed manuscript, go for it. But don't expect God to applaud that decision. You also ignored the fact that KJV contains a verse that is a proven fraud. I guess you don't care about that either.?

ThyWordIsTruth: Well don't expect God to applaud a bible like the NIV that says the Jesus fell from heaven and not Lucifer like the NIV in Isaiah 14:12.?

Hope Remains: I am no fan of NIV. There is no fully accurate vernacular Bible. But in NIV's defense, it does NOT say Jesus fell from heaven in that verse. KJV uses the word Lucifer, which is a lousy translation of the Hebrew word Heylel, which means "Daystar." That name was given by God to the devil when he was first created as a cherub. After he fell, God reclaimed the name for Himself, and the former Heylel became known as Satan.?

truth96130: If you want to get technical, it can be a dangerous thing to know no Greek. You said--"You mean the translators of the KJV chose to ignore the manuscripts that don't agree with one another ?" --Thats wrong, in fact they did use manuscripts that did not all agree with one another. That is why they had alternate translations in the margins of the very first KJV bible. I am still waiting for an answer. Question--Is it possible for there to be a miscopy in a KJV bible? A) Yes. B) No. Rather than just accusing him of being wrong with out backing it up, tell us exactly what he said that
was (wrong) and then explain to us the correct way. If you can not do that, than you have no argument.?

drkresearch #fundie nodisinfo.com

It cannot be said that the believer is able by his position to prove the atheist wrong. That is left to the godless one alone, who has proven himself to be fully in error and will continue to do so: by his own actions and words. All that can be stated is that the believer has seen the evidence for the existence of the creator and has sensed it and therefore freely follows what he senses. Such a one knows full well that he cannot ‘prove’ that God exists with physical phenomena. He knows God exists because of the obvious, even without physical divine revelation.

Does the atheist, too, know he exists in the deepest recesses of the heart? What kind of cover, or deep darkness, must such a one apply in order to reject that existence, that is the existence of what is glaringly obvious, which is that there is a supreme Being who has absolute control over this vast universe, including the earth and all who reside on it?

The oddity is this. By rejecting him the denier of truth cannot hurt God but rather only hurts himself. Even so, God is so merciful that He gives such a one deliberate warnings, through His mercy: if those who reject Him only knew.

Commonly, atheists join the arch-enemies of Islaam, the Zionists, in riding hard against it. Why do so? Why condemn it so vehemently? It is because Islaam is the fount of truth, and the atheists despise this and so wage war against it, which is further proof the their error and corruption.

David J. Stewart #fundie jesus-is-savior.com

Jesus Died for Pedophiles, Rapists and Murderers

Romans 5:6-8, “For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.”

What a beautiful passage of Scripture! Few people would be willing to give their life, to die, for a righteous man. In some rare situations, a person might even be willing to give their life, to die, for a good man. But who in the world would be willing to sacrifice their life, to die, for a pervert, for a thug rapist or murderer? The answer is NO ONE! But wait, there is Someone who was willing to die for the vilest of society. There is Someone who was willing to die for the forgotten convicts rotting in prisons around the world. There is Someone who was willing to die for the lowest of the low of society. That noble Person's name is Jesus!

Carefully notice our text passage of Scripture, lest you feel self-righteousness and fail to realize that YOU are as guilty as that pedophile, rapist and murderer for whom Christ died. Romans 5:8, “But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” Notice that the Bible doesn't say that Christ died for the worst of the worst of sinners; but rather, CHRIST DIED FOR US! That means, you and I are as guilty as the vilest criminal in God's eyes. James 2:10, “For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.” The Law of God is like a mirror, that is, even if you gently tap it, it will shatter into hundreds of pieces! If you sin even one time, you are imperfect and cannot inherit eternal life. Consequently, you need a Savior!

My dear friend, the ONLY difference between you and the vilest pedophile, concerning Heaven, is the precious redeeming blood of Jesus Christ. In God's eyes, your lust, your hate, or the lies that you once told, are just as offensive and damning as are pedophiles to any normal person. Society hates anyone who would prey upon a helpless child. And rightfully so! But God hates your hurtful gossip just as much! God hates your HBO filth just as much! God hates your seductive tight miniskirt just as much! God equally hates your unwillingness to apologize for your past sins! God hates your stinginess and unwillingness to support Gospel missions! God hates your tolerance of the Alexandrian-based, modern, corrupt, Bible versions just as much! God hates Bob Jones University's support of the Alexandrian Bible perversions, that molests men's souls, just as much as He hates the sins of a child molester!

natsumihanaki20 #fundie deviantart.com

A reply to TheEyeOfTheLight

I blocked you because you are crazy. In this world there are two type of persons: those whose values are defined by society and do not like to think (you) , and those whose value are defined by reality and like to think (me). You are amongst those whose values is defined by society and do not like to think. I warned you lovingly that what you do is wrong, but you keep on denying reality and God to satisfy your delusions. I can see which kind of person you are, and you are the type with whom talking about reality and showing proof is a waste of time. You are a hypocrite, and delusional. You are the kind who has blindfolded themselves from the truth. You claim to respect my beliefs. Yet, you came here with the purport to change them. You claim to believe in God, and yet in the comment you said that probably God is not true. You claim to be interested in learning, but when confronted with evidence you ignore it and plunge your head into the sand. I don't hate you, but I don't see the point in repeating the truth when you have unwilling ears. It seems you have not read the Bible. If you had read it, you wouldn't say such biblical myths.

I'm not being a hypocrite. All I'm saying is what is written in the Bible and what facts support. Facts show that asexuality is as healthy as heterosexuality, that's why priest practice it. Jesus himself said that being eunuch ( not interested in sex) is okay, whilst God condemned homosexuality in the New Testament and in the Old Testament and homosexuals were listed as those who will burn in Hell. God commanded his followers to hate sin, and to love the sinner. One can love a homosexual man whilst detesting his homosexuality. One can love a murderer whilst detesting the murder he committed. One can love a man without loving his sin. And, by 'love' God means that we should do our best to help the fella turn away from sin and to help him whenever his in trouble (for example, if a sinner is starving, we should give him food).

Sin is something that one can stop doing. We are all born wicked, and with a tendency to sin. But, through God we can all overcome sin. Homosexuality is not inborn; there's no evidence to support that. Homosexuality can be changed, and there are many studies which prove it. For instance, a study performed by Robert Spitzer ( a pro-homosexual psychiatrist, who was amongst the groups of psychologist whose efforts contributed to homosexuality stopping to be considered a disorder) showed that highly motivated homosexuals can change their sexual orientation. Thus, homosexuality is a condition which can be changed as long as the gay individual is has enough desire to change. In the same way a highly motivated drug-addict can stop being so, a highly motivated homosexual can change his sexual orientation. Thus, it is not a pointless battle to fight against addicting sin, but a battle that the one who perseveres will eventually win. God did not condemn people who suffer from homosexuality to the lake of fire, for he gave them the ability to change. It's up to homosexuals to decide whether they want to keep on committing atrocities with their bodies or change. It's up to them to decide whether they want to go to Hell or Heaven. Having said this, there's no such thing as homosexuals, but rather people who suffer from homosexuality. Since homosexuality is an illness with a cure, there's no such thing as homosexual, since homosexuals are neither born gay nor condemned to remain that way.

What's the point of the study? Not too long ago, many Christians believed whites were superiors to blacks, and thought the Bible supported their beliefs, when it is written that in God everyone is equal and that we are all descendants of Adam and Eve. The fact that a majority of Christians are being brainwashed by public schools since tender ages to accept homosexuality does not mean that homosexuality is accepted in the Bible. This shouldn't surprise you but, many studies have shown that an alarming number of Christians has never read the Bible, and believe myths about it. Many Christians even believe certain sins to be okay whilst they are condemned in the Bible, and other laughable falsehoods. Homosexuality is literally condemned in the Bible, by God, Jesus, and Paul. But since most Christians do not read the Bible, it's not surprising that they practice heresy.

What I told is the opposite of what you accuse me of. I said that our duty is to forever help sinners overcome their sins, and their worldly troubles. Look, we are all sinners, and we all forever be so. But only to those who forever try to overcome their mistakes, God will reward them with Heaven. Our duty is to eternally try to overcome our sins. Our duty is persevere as we walk the thorny path to Heaven, and at the same time lovingly help those who we find lost in the way to our destination. But, those who give themselves up to evil and practice it will burn in Hell (unless they repent). God loves all of his creation. But, He is just, and his love will not pervert His justice. There's Heaven and there's Hell, and wicked people will not go to Heaven (unless they repent since repentance will cleanse a man of all his evil and make him good) Those who sin are not forever cast away from God (whilst they live), as God is always willing to forgive them and help them overcome sin. I dare say, God weeps and feels sad when any individual chooses to sin and lives a sinful live without ever repenting of his mistakes. Men who suffer from homosexuality will burn in Hell unless they repent and try to overcome their illness. Men who steal will burn in Hell, unless they repent and try their best not to steal again.

The ten commandments do not state anything in relation to homosexuality, but there are other sins not mentioned in the Ten Commandments which God will punish people from. That is why, Christian should read the whole Bible, rather than cherry-pick a few parts of it. Homosexuality is condemned anywhere where it appears in the Bible as vile degrading feelings which are an abomination unto God, and God always punished homosexuals, who did not repent, for it. Homosexuality is condemned alongside zoophilia and adultery in Leviticus. It is condemned in a particular section dedicated to sexual immorality:

Leviticus: “If a man commits adultery with the wife of his neighbor, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death. If a man lies with his father’s wife, he has uncovered his father’s nakedness; both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. If a man lies with his daughter-in-law, both of them shall surely be put to death; they have committed perversion; their blood is upon them. If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. If a man takes a woman and her mother also, it is depravity; he and they shall be burned with fire, that there may be no depravity among you. If a man lies with an animal, he shall surely be put to death, and you shall kill the animal. If a woman approaches any animal and lies with it, you shall kill the woman and the animal; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.”

In the new Testament homosexuality is condemned. Besides the many verses condemning sexual immorality (as defined in the Bible), there are a number of verses exclusively condemning homosexuality. For brevity’s sake, I will include only one. Also as there’s a controversy over its accurate translations, I will include the original text as well.

Corinthian 1: “Or don't you know that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don't be deceived. Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor male prostitutes, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor slanderers, nor extortioners, will inherit the Kingdom of God. Such were some of you, but you were washed. But you were sanctified. But you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and in the Spirit of our God”

....

(arsenokoites): homosexual, men who sleep with men
Composition:
Arsen (variant of árrhen): male
Koíte (variant of koité): marriage bed, sexual intercourse, bed, mat.

Extra: arsenokoites was first used by Paul as a reference to Leviticus. So, claims that it does not mean gays do it being used later to describe other acts are invalid (though it was still used to describe homosexuality). The word clearly means homosexual, and is a reference to Leviticus.

?a?a??? (malakos): soft, effeminate, doing things that women do, acting like a woman, feeling or doing stuff appropriate for women.
Extra: malakos comes from a myth about a king named malakos who acted like a female by dressing like a woman, and did other things considered to be womanly. But, by Paul’s time it had come to mean other things. It came to describe any sort of action considered appropriate for women, or anything associated with the female sex. It meant cross dressing, women were considered morally weak thus it also meant morally weak, emotional, homosexual, and other stuff. Taking into account that Paul and his disciples were emotional and cried in a number of times (weeping was considered feminine, and thus; men who cried were considered malakos), and taking into account Paul’s statement that spiritually men and women are equal, in this case it refers to homosexuals (men who harbored homosexual feelings were considered effeminate since those were feelings women were supposed to possess) and transgenders. It could also mean being morally weak, but considering Paul’s statements that women and men were spiritually equal, it seems unlikely he meant morally weak. Taking into account Paul’s statements condemning homosexuality (both in emotions and actions just like adultery) and transgenderism, it must mean both of them. However, considering homosexuality is condemned in the same text (see arsenokoites), it could mean solely transgenderism. I myself believe that in this case, malakos means homosexuals and transgenders due to historical reasons. Contrary to a common myth, it does not mean catamite. The belief that it means catamite stems from a passage in which malakos (malakos can also means softness of clothes, and the like) is used to describe the softness of catamite’s clothes. But, this conclusion ignores the fact that it is also used to describe the clothes of the nobility and other figures who were not catamite.

Anyway, back to the given task of preaching the truth to delusional ears, judging is not a crime. Judging is not condemned in the Bible, hypocrisy is. Judging is essential for life, as it’s something necessary for every action we take. Unless we exercise judgement in every facet of our life, from going to the grocery store and when confronted with sin. Unless we judge, we will be weak before Satan, as we will be unable to distinguish righteousness from unrighteousness. In the Bible, one must take heed to the context of every passage. In this “judge not” passage, Jesus is preaching against hypocrisy. If he was condemning judgment (as determining whether one of our brothers is doing wrong or not), he would not have said that we can help our brother take the splinter out of his eye, if we have taken the log out of ours (in other words, implying that we can judge whether our brother has a splinter in his eye or not, whether he is doing wrong or not). In other words, we can help our brothers overcome sin and judge whether they are sinning or not (so as to help them turn away from the path to Hell), but only if we are not practicing the same sin (note how both men have wood in their eyes, the same sin). It is a sin and a crime to judge someone as evil and preach against their sin when we are committing the same sin (like a man preaching against adultery when he is committing adultery). But, when we are committing a different sin, it’s okay to determine that someone else is sinning and help them overcome sin whilst we ourselves try to overcome our shortcomings, but we have to acknowledge that we are both sinners. Judgement is fine when it is educated and founded on God’s words. Thus, it is perfectly okay for us to judge or deduce that homosexuality is wrong based on reason, studies that has proven its unhealthy nature, and condemnation by God. It is okay for us to judge homosexuals as wicked, as long as we remember that we both are. It is our duty to distinguish the evil people do to help them.

Ezekiel: “ 'O wicked man, you will surely die,' and you do not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity, but his blood I will require from your hand. But if you on your part warn a wicked man to turn from his way and he does not turn from his way, he will die in his iniquity, but you have delivered your life.”

We are all wicked, but only those who strive to overcome their sins will go to Heaven. Salvation is not solely through faith, as Jesus himself confirmed. One may believe in God as one pleases. But unless we try to follow his statutes, we’ll burn in Hell.
Mathew: “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

If it’s a crime to execute or incarcerate humans who commit crimes against humanities, we should not punish murders. History has shown us that evil should be punished, as it affects all communities. Homosexuality is a depravity and a crime against humanity, thus it should be punished. However, they should only be punished for the crime of committing homosexuality if there’s any evidence against them, rather than due to a witness or mere accusation. I myself believe all sinners should be put in jail rather than executed, so that they have a chance to repent. I believe sinners should be put in jail and put to do labor. But, I understand if sometimes circumstances do not allow for such lenience.
Love as defined by God and reason is about helping your brother, not letting them walk to their death. There’s no love in allowing your brother to walk to his death by doing evil, without attempting to save them.

I hope God will help you understand what love is, and that He will free you from your delusions. Now, don’t misunderstand me and think I’ve called you crazy out of hate. I’m the kind who speaks the truth or their thoughts out loud, without meaning any form of aggression. I’ve concluded you are crazy due to your writings and denial of reality. However, a more accurate term to describe would probably be stupid. But, regardless, I’m going to pray and hope God’s frees you the demon in your heart, and that all goes well in your life. May you live a long happy life with God by you side!

Christinaa #fundie answers.yahoo.com

if you dont believe in god your going to hell, and people always say well why would god send his people to hell, god sent you hear to spend your life deciding if he was real, god spent his time making you so why would he want someone that doesnt love him like he loves you, the devil loves all these people saying tey dont believe in god,

the bible says believe in me no matter what you hear or what people say or how many challenges you go threw, believe in me,

if scientist proved he wasnt real, i still woould believe in god, im a firm believer, always will be, no matter what all these immature people have to say

every_id_i_pick_is_taken #fundie answers.yahoo.com

Atheists dont believe in God becasue there is no proof, but.........?

but one could say, "why don't you believe in this God, or that God, like zeus, and a lot of other gods through out time. well, (I do believe in God and is saved) but, I agree there is no Scientific evidence that God exists, you are right on that, but there also is evidence that shows how all those other gods are made up by man through time wile there is no evidence that shows how someone made up the one true God. so there is no evidence that disproves there is a God. so why do you choose to not believe then? or at least wonder for that mater?

HP Mageson666 #fundie ancient-forums.com

In Buddhism the only being that makes any sense is Mara. He is the god of desire and fulfilments of material existence. Buddha just states have no desire's so that the energy of the elements that forms you will dissipate so when you die the psychic aspects of the elements will fizzle out on the astral and you will cease to exist as its desire that holds them together and gives them meaning. As Buddhism preaches you have no soul, no Atman. Thus you don't actually exist as a soul consciousness. What you perceive as yourself is illusion. Your just a recycling of five elements nothing else. When you realize this deeply its suppose to cause a psychic wave that releases the power of the elements causing the dissolution of existence upon your death. This is the meaning of enlightenment in Buddhism.

Nirvana in Buddhism means literally extinction. Buddhism states EXISTANCE is suffering and that EXISTANCE has an END. That end is EXTINCTION. So if you obtain Nirvana you literally cease to exist. Lights out forever. Mara is the god of existence and life. Buddha is the god of death and annihilation. Buddhism exists to bring death, destruction, demoralization and annihilation on all life. Buddha is actually an evil character that preaches hatred for all life and the purposes of life. Buddha preached an evil doctrine that is identical to the evil doctrine the fictional Nazarene preaches on the mount. This has been noted by scholars. There is nothing spiritual about Buddhism, its annihilationist nihilism.

This is why having Buddha statues is heretical in Buddhism the form of Buddha that of Gautama is actually Mara. Because its an existing being thus the realm of Mara. MA...water....RA...fire, the two elements that generate all existence forever. The actual Buddha is literally nothing, total extinction. Theravada Buddhism is stated to be the original sect and doctrine of Buddhism. What is obvious is there is a lot of talk about Buddhism and its becoming the new trendy, trend. But no actual mention of what Buddhism is as the core of its system and meaning. Just buzz words. The Buddhist Theocrats are also purposely pushing the trendy buzz words and feel goodism. Without telling anyone what Buddhism actually is. Read on to understand why.

Its simple Buddhism states existence is suffering and suffering has an end which sums up its four noble "truths." Which sums up the whole system. Suffering is existence....what is the opposite of existence? Extinction, what does Nirvana mean in Pali: EXTINCTION. Buddhism states there is no soul nor eternal I or self. The person is a collection of only five aggravates or elemental forces of a consciousness that simply reform into each new incarnation according to what karma has ripened a restacking of the same deck. These forces are held together by a karmic glue and desire is what causes karma to continue on and solidify the aggravates together keeping one in the wheel of suffering which is existence.

The Buddhist meditation system is basically void mediation and nothing else. Its a form of introspection that allows one to trace the roots of desire and dismantle them within the psyche. So that eventually when they die. The five aggravates will dissipate and they will cease to exist and become totally extinct. This is obtainment of Nirvana which means EXTINCTION. Buddhism states the biggest illusion and desire that causes one to stay in the cycle of existence thus life. Is the belief one has a soul an eternal I that goes on. Enlightenment in Buddhism is totally accepting the ridiculous belief that there is no self and one does not exist. Ones existence as a self is maya. This belief acceptance is believed to be the switch hit that dissolves the karmic bonds totally and allows for them to reach total Extinction, Nirvana upon death.

Buddhism is a materialistic, annihilationist death cult. That preaches a strange sentimental, radical egalitarianism which is why the current Liberal West finds it so appealing. The ideology preached in the Buddhist Dhammapada is identical to the Sermon On The Mount of Christianity. Which is an enemy program. Which points to who is behind Buddhism. Who benefits from removing spiritual knowledge and replacing it with a paleo, Communistic system. Now the Buddhist system furthered laid down the following. The science of mantra and astrology was banned. And the practices of Yoga [Kundalini Yoga is Yoga] where also banned from being taught. The original eight fold path which survived in Tantra which is the esoteric knowledge of the Veda. Was replaced by the Jainist eight fold path. Which leads to nowhere spiritual. The Tantra texts uniformly agree Mantra is the number one most important tool for enlightenment which Buddhism by order removes.

Its obvious what went on here. They removed the actual spiritual knowledge needed for enlightenment which is defined in the East and West as the ascension of the serpent [Kundalini Yoga] a large part of the Magnum Opus is based on astrology which in Vedic means the science of light. And replaced it with meaningless materialistic nonsense which leaves a person trapped in the cycle of suffering and does not free them from anything. They stay in a spiritual dormant state and hope for extinction of their being from all existence. As Nirvana. With the technical or symbolic language of Buddhism its stolen from the original Vedic tradition and corrupted into the opposite meaning. They changed the wine but kept the bottle. Its well established Siddhartha never existed. He is a stolen and rewrote Sun God.

Maryann Spikes #fundie examiner.com

A common claim of many atheists is that atheism is not a belief, but a lack of one. You can see this claim being debated in the discussion of the article, Atheists: They Exist in Modesto, California! posted on Friendly Atheist.

However, a lack of belief in either a theist or atheist direction is apisticism (a lack of knowledge is agnosticism)—someone who lacks belief about god(s) believes neither that god(s) exists (theism), nor that no god(s) exists (atheism). So to claim the title ‘atheist’ is to believe there are no god(s) (positive belief) at the same time one disbelieves in the existence of god(s) (negative belief). Negative belief is belief nonetheless.

edwitness #fundie disqus.com

Alan Smithee:
I can honestly tell you I do not worship anything or anyone. Now maybe you can explain why you don’t believe me. I am being entirely civil and sincere.

edwitness:
A person's god/God is the ultimate criteria he uses to make his choices. For the Christian that criteria is Jesus. For you it is something else. Which is the sin of the world that Jesus came to deliver the world from(John16:9). The sin of not believing in Jesus. Only when one is delivered from this unbelief can they have eternal life. Because eternal life is knowing Him. John17:3.
Even so... Maranatha!!

Alan Smithee:
Excuse me, but no. Nobody has the right to tell me what I actually believe but me. I get very annoyed when people tell me that I'm purposely sending myself to hell because I have the nerve to believe something other than what they believe. The lack of logic and laziness is appalling..."Oh, well, you don't believe what I do so that must mean you worship satan and want to go to hell." Both hell and satan are parts of YOUR belief system, not mine...and you're welcome to them.

edwitness:
Excuse me, but yes. Your free will determines the choices you make in accord with the information you are given. The ultimate criteria for those choices determines the god/God you have chosen. It's really that simple.
And since it is the ultimate criteria you use in making your choices that determines who your god/God is, and since yours is admittedly not the God of the Bible, then it can only be some other. And because Jesus is the only way, truth, and life because He is the only person who has ever conquered man's death, you have disqualified yourself from His saving grace and will live for eternity with the god you have chosen.
Your God given free will has done all this. All because He loves you enough to allow you to choose your eternal destiny. So you can't blame God when you end up somewhere for all eternity that you never wanted to be.
Even so.. Maranatha!!

Alan Smithee:
Absolutely false. If you want to believe in something ridiculous like eternal hellfire, it's your problem, not mine. I don't believe in something that ludricrous and none of your religion's silly rules apply to me whatsoever.
My free will means I choose my path in this life. And that doesn't include your revenge fantasy. You don't know what happens after this life any more than anyone else does.

edwitness:
"... none of your religion's silly rules apply to me whatsoever."
Really? Then you must think you are not be subject to death as the Bible says you are, huh?
"My free will means I choose my path in this life."
Amen! That's exactly what I said.
"And that doesn't include your revenge fantasy."
What revenge fantasy? Whether you go to hell or not has nothing to do with revenge. It is your choice. The exercise of the free will that God has gifted you with. Because He does not force anyone to love Him. He loves you so much He allows you to choose for yourself.
The eternity you are so far choosing was never made for you. It was made only for the angels that rebelled.
"You don't know what happens after this life any more than anyone else does."
Oh, but I do. Because I have it on the authority of the one who knows the end from the beginning. The one who has proven this by telling of future events before they happen that come to pass exactly as He said they would. With 100% accuracy. and since He has been right about all these there is every reason to believe Him in regard to eternal life and eternal death.
Even so... Maranatha!!

Alan Smithee:
When I die, I'm going to die. I'm going to do what everyone else does. Just die.
"Whether you go to hell or not has nothing to do with revenge. It is your choice."
Only according to YOUR RULES. I don't play by your rules. They are illegitimate. When you tell me I choose hell, you're lying, because I don't believe hell exists. You can tell me that YOU think I'm going to hell. That's fine. But you're not doing that, you're telling me that I am choosing it, and since I don't believe it exists, I am not choosing it.
You Christians need to stop telling the rest of us how we think, and try asking us instead. We know our own minds far better than you do. Such unbelievable arrogance!
And no, you don't know what happens after this life. Your faith is just that...faith. It's not fact and it has not been proven.

Yukon Jack #conspiracy #crackpot #racist #wingnut centralbankinginsanity.wordpress.com

Amerika can be accurately described as a place called HELL. Is Amerika, the land of God fearing Christians, Jewish supremacists, anarchist destroyers, pagan witches, tranny dick choppers and drug snorting godless hippies the real hell? I think so and let me prove it to you. First of all much of the world says we are the Great Satan, that should be a clue for you to investigate.

Christians have failed to inform you that hell is ruled by DEVILS and these demons have a name, they are called JEWS. JEWS are the evil minions of the devil SATAN who rules over EARTH which is a PRISON PLANET called HELL. The Judeo-Christian Bible says God cast Satan to earth, and the authors of the Bible failed to tell you they are Satan’s offspring.

THE WAR ON THE AMERIKAN PEOPLE IS REALLY A JEWISH WAR ON THE GOYIM

WITH EACH DECADE PASSING, THE WAR OF TERROR ON US IS INCREASING AS THE JEWISH COMMIES GAIN POLITICAL POWER

For years now I have been calling the failed state of Amerika hell. It has become a Soviet style gulag archipelago ever since Nixon and Kissinger launched the War on Drugs which is really a WAR ON THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. The statist Amerikan government is so contemptuous of it’s own citizens it considers them the enemy, and puts them in prison in record numbers.
<…>
You see, when you are in hell, people are so deluded and insane they think God chose them, not realizing that if you are in hell then that means God did not choose you, he has already damned and sentenced you and everyone else to eternal life in hell. So in hell people spend their entire lives struggling with false ideologies and belief systems they think confers on them some advantage.

ONLY IN HELL DO SOME PEOPLE THINK GOD CHOSE THEM

KNOW THAT YOU ARE IN HELL IF THE HOLY BOOK OF YOUR PLANET WAS AUTHORED BY JEWS

The great misunderstanding is thinking you can be a good little sheeple (willing slave) and get out of hell by some belief system. Believers do not realize that their acquiescence to power was the real purpose, not salvation – which is impossible. It never dawns of the believers that the most holy city, they call Jerusalem, is the most bloody, and thus is anything but holy, but a place of great religious evil as all three Abrahamic hell religions fight over who gets to control it.

So while in hell the holy books are a ruse of the ruling class, to get you to voluntary comply to the monied Jews. Then, these Jew hellions who are the secret rulers insist you worship their hell God Yahweh which is really the devil Satan. Have you noticed that in hell people worship false gods, demons as the holy ones, then believe they are superior to you?

ONLY IN HELL ARE THE PRISONERS TOLD TO LOVE THE JEW GOD YAHWEH

IF YOU ARE ON A PLANET WITH YAHWEH WORSHIPPERS, THEN YOU MUST BE IN HELL

mickiel #fundie atheistforums.org

There are many ways to verify a god , but because god is unorthodox, the verification is as well; one has to think outside the box of the norm. atheism is a way to verify god, why has not the world been entirely atheist, since it began that way? And why has theism overshadowed atheism in human history? How did it move to the forefront and stay that way for so long?

The duality concept must be observed then, as unorthodox as it is. How could we have up without down? In without out? Good without evil? Yen without yang? theist without atheist? Natural without unnatural? Male without female? The existence of one demands the existence of the other.

atheism is right, none of mans gods exist, absolutely none of them. But there is a god outside of human invention. Both then must exist, no gods and god. That duality is evidence that no yen can be removed from the yang. We cannot remove females and claim only males exist. As long as atheism exist, then god must exist, or atheism has no reason to exist.

Anna Diehl #fundie blogs.christianpost.com

[about how to respond to a teenaged son turning away from the faith; links and bold original]

Once you have put your fears into words, the next step is to identify the beliefs behind the fears. All fears are based on certain assumptions. Let’s look at the assumptions the [following] statements are making about God.

#1: I’m afraid that my son might not really be saved after all and that he might end up in Hell.

If souls spend their entire lives refusing to submit to Jesus as their God and Savior, they will certainly end up in Hell when they die—this is a very important truth that many of us try not to think about. But whenever we find God’s truths having an oppressive effect on us, it’s an indication that other false beliefs are getting added to the mix.

If we really understood God’s priorities, we wouldn’t think there is anything sad about souls ending up in Hell for an eternity. Hell is not a bummer to God, it’s a glorious thing. God will not be mocked. He delights in justice. He delights in revenge (see Why God Loves Hell). But while God thoroughly enjoys thrashing His enemies, He is also extremely gracious, kind, patient, and merciful. Before condemning us to Hell, God gives us plenty of chances to come to Him. He educates us about who He is and what He wants. He makes sure we have the internal resources we need to meet His demands for reverential submission (see The Salvation Process: Understanding the Fairness of God). If we really saw how incredibly gracious God is towards every soul and if we were really loving God first, then we would feel furious at seeing souls continue to spit in His face for their entire lives and we would celebrate their demise. Being aligned with God means caring about HIS feelings more than we care about the comfort of created things. Being loyal to God means wanting Him to be revered and honored by every human soul.

When the idea of a loved one ending up in Hell makes us feel burdened, sad, and miserable, what we’re often trying to do is one of two things: either we’re trying to share grief that we think God is feeling, or we are mourning for ourselves because we think the loss of our loved one will permanently cripple us. Neither of these things is true. God is not mourning when souls end up in Hell, and we aren’t going to spend eternity pining for the people who didn’t make it to Heaven. We were designed to be fully satisfied by our Creators in eternity. Relating with other created beings is going to be a nice extra, but relating to our Gods will be what really makes our souls feel complete. God has designed Heaven in such a way that you will not miss anyone who isn’t there. In the worst case scenario, if you ended up in Heaven but your child did not, you would not miss him at all. You would not be sad, you would not feel incomplete, you would not be haunted by memories from earth. God has taken care of all of these issues and He promises that for those who submit to Him on earth, Heaven will be a place of eternal joy. Your peace today will come from focusing on the fact that all is well between you and God. If your son is choosing to defy God, that’s something he needs to work out with the Holy Spirit.

#2: I’m afraid that my son is heading down a path that will make his life miserable. I’m afraid I won’t be able to deal with the heartache that will cause.

This fear assumes that your happiness in this life is dependent on teen’s current circumstances. If your son is sad, you must be sad. If he’s happy, you can be happy. Well, no, you are not dependent on your son. Being a good parent doesn’t mean you have to revolve around your teen and let him control your state of mind. God is your center in life, not your child. God is your all-sufficient Provider who is with you every day and guiding all of your steps. You never need to fear future trials, nor should you anticipate them. You just want to take one day at a time and focus on the fact that God is with you.

Your son is not alone in this universe with only you to guide him. God is your son’s true Father–you’re just a temporary caretaker who God has called in to be a witness for Him in your child’s life. It is an enormous privilege to be trusted with the care of another human soul, but God doesn’t just abandon you on the job. He is right there with you–guiding your steps, and leading you in the care of HIS soul. You don’t have to have all of the answers because you know the One who does. You don’t have to see into the future or be able to anticipate problems. If God wanted your teen to only have a perfect parent, He would have never gotten you or any other human guardian involved in your teen’s life. But it pleased God to have you–an imperfect, fallen human being–to work with Him as He raises HIS son. The pressure isn’t on you in this situation, it’s on God. God is the only One who can illuminate a soul with truth and give him a desire to do what is right. You can present your child with wisdom that God gives you, but you can’t reach into your child’s mind and make him value righteousness–that’s God’s job. You don’t want to try and take on God-sized responsibilities or you’ll end up feeling like a total failure.

#3: I’m afraid my son’s rebellion indicates I’m failing as a parent in some way. I’m afraid God is angry with me for not living up to His demands.

God doesn’t expect or want perfection from you. God wants your total submission. God wants you to ask Him to have His total way in your life, and then TRUST that He will. God is not going to dump a bunch of vague guilt trips on you. If there’s something specific He wants you to do or say in this situation, He will tell you. TRUST is the key here–you need to trust that your Father is good, kind, loving, and on your side. He is not going to let you miss His cues and then rage at you for failing. He is not going to demand things from you that He knows you don’t have. Every parent makes mistakes. All parents lose their tempers, make bad judgment calls, and do things that they wish they could undo. This is where you need to remember that God is gracious and He judges you by your soul’s desire to please Him.

Okay, so how should you pray for your teen during this time? You shouldn’t. You need to pray for yourself instead, because the fact that you’re stressing over this tells you there are weak points in your own trust. God is already taking the best possible care of your son, and He will continue to do so regardless of what advice you give Him. God doesn’t want you to tell Him how to do His job. He is already the perfect Father–you want to give Him room to work and honor Him with your trust in His goodness, wisdom, and methods.

Mickiel #fundie city-data.com

What if God were not real, well France certainly would be different than it is now; 63% of its people believe in God, 26% believe it might be a God , 10% believe in an Islamic God, and 31% are Atheist who need the imaginary existence of God in order for their belief to even exist. For Atheism to even be valid, an imaginary God must exist in the minds of others, if that imaginary God didnot exist, then Atheism would be imaginary.

Sye Ten Bruggencate #fundie #dunning-kruger godorabsurdity.blogspot.com

Unbeliever: Why can't some other "god" be the necessary starting point?
Christian: Because there are no other gods.

U: How do you know that?
C: Because God tells us: "For all the gods of the nations are idols, but the Lord made the Heavens" Psalm 96:5

U: What about the gods of the other religions?
C: They don't exist.

U: But other people believe that other gods exist.
C: I would argue that they don't, as Scripture teaches us that they are "suppressing the truth in unrighteousness."

U: Could you demonstrate why Allah or Vishnu couldn't be the necessary starting point?
C: Sure, because God tells us they don't exist.

U: But their "holy" books would argue that your God doesn't exist, how would you deal with them?
Christian: Which one do you believe?

U: None of them.
C: Then there is no sense arguing about them. We could also sit here and argue whether or not the moon is made of green cheese, but since neither of us believe that it would be a waste of time.

U: Surely you have heard of positing hypotheticals to disprove a claim?
C: Yes, that would make sense in other instances but we are talking about the necessary starting point to make sense of argumentation, so it would not make sense to argue from a position that you don't believe.

U: Ah, you are just saying that because you can't refute my hypothetical that Allah is the necessary starting point.
C: Not at all. Just for kicks, I will refute your hypothetical
Premise 1: If atheism is true, no gods exist
Premise 2: Atheism is true.
Conclusion: Therefore no gods exist and you have been refuted.

U: Um, but you are not an atheist!
C: Um, but you are not a Muslim! Do you see why refuting hypotheticals when it comes to the justification for knowledge is pointless?

U: Okay fine, I have just become a Muslim, now refute my god.
C: Do you see what you must do to even begin arguing against my position, you must abandon your position.

U: What do you mean?
C: Are you saying that Atheism cannot provide the necessary foundation for knowledge?

U: Um, atheism can't provide a foundation for anything as it makes no claims it is just a lack of belief.
C: Well in atheism there is the implied claim that knowledge can be justified without God, and you have demonstrated that by abandoning atheism to make your argument.

U: Okay fine, but you will discard my deity as quickly as I discard yours.
C: Not at all. I know that you are not a Muslim, but I will demonstrate how I refute their claim as a sign of good faith. (There are only 2 worldviews, God and "notGod." I treat all the "notGod" worldviews the same way, I ask them how they know what they know). How do you know what you know?

U: Revelation from Allah in the Holy Qur'an.
C: What does the Qur'an say about the Bible?

U: It denies the Bible.
C: Then you need to read your Qur'an. The Qur'an actually says that the Bible is a previous revelation of Allah, and that it is true (Surah 6:114*) so why don't you believe what it says?

U: The Bible has been corrupted over the years.
C: Well actually we have complete copies of the Bible which predate the Qur'an (i.e. Codex Vaticanus - 4th century AD), but what does your Qur'an say about whether or not the words of Allah can be changed?

U: Um, you got me again.
C: Well the Qur'an actually says that the words of Allah cannot be changed (Surah 6:34, 6:115**), so how do you reconcile the fact that the Qur'an teaches that the Bible is the words of Allah, and that the words of Allah cannot be changed with your claim that the Bible has been changed? (The point is that if the Qur'an is true, the Bible is true, and BECAUSE the Bible is true, the Qur'an is false).

U: Okay, good point, you have deconverted me from Islam, I have just become a Pastafarian and now believe that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is my god.
C: Just to be clear, are you telling me that atheism cannot justify knowledge and that is why you are jumping from alleged deity to alleged deity.

U: Yup, I'm a Pastafarian, refute my god.
C: What do you know about this god of yours and how do you know it?

U: He revealed it to me while I was standing in my closet by reaching down with his noodly appendage and implanting this knowledge into my head.
C: Well if I wanted to debate personal arbitrary revelations, I would go to the local asylum, as that is not at all like my claim. I offer an objective revelation for anyone to examine, but if you wish to claim that as your justification for knowledge, I would ask you to please speak into the microphone and tell the world what it takes to deny the God of Scripture.

For more info see www.proofthatgodexists.org.

For more about self-refuting worldviews (which includes some information on Islam) see the article I wrote here http://www.101arguments.com/2013/01/the-argument-from-self-refuting.html.

*Surah 6:114 "...Those unto whom We gave the Scripture [the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] know that it is revealed from your Lord in truth..."
**Surah 6:34 "And none can alter the words of Allah"
Surah 6:115 "And the Word of your Lord has been fulfilled in truth and in justice. None can change His Words. And He is the All-Hearer, the All-Knower."

See also Deuteronomy 13:1-5 and 18.20 which basically make it clear that if someone comes saying they have a revelation from God that the way to test the truth of this is whether or not it agrees with what has already been revealed - if it contradicts the revealed Word of God in the Bible then that revelation is not from God.

John Simpson #fundie quora.com

The Bible makes it clear that it is not lack of evidence that keeps people from believing in God. The evidence is available for all to see but most people do not bother to investigate the evidence.

The reasons people do not believe in God are many, but they can be broken down into two basic categories: pride and ignorance.

1. Pride Keeps People From Believing In God

The sin of pride keeps people from believing in God. Humanity does not want to admit that there is something or someone greater than human beings in the universe. People want to be the master of their own fate, captain of their own salvation. The Bible speaks of the pride of man.

These six things the Lord hates, yes, seven are an abomination to him: a proud look (Proverbs 6:16,17).

Pride is the first sin mentioned in a list of things that God hates. It was the sin of pride that caused Lucifer to rebel against God and be cast out of heaven. It was pride that caused Cain to bring an offering of his own works to the Lord instead of the one God had commanded. From the beginning of time, pride has kept people from coming to God.

Jesus' Warning About Pride

James warned about the foolishness of pride:

Come now, you who say, ‘Today or tomorrow we will go to such and such a city, spend a year there, buy and sell, and make a profit;' whereas you do not know what will happen tomorrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapor that appears for a little time and then vanishes away. Instead you ought to say, if the Lord wills, we shall live and do this or that (James 4:13-15).

Though people may boast that they do not need God the fact is that they cannot exist without Him. People make plans as though they will live forever, but as James reminds us no one is guaranteed that he will be alive tomorrow.

2. Ignorance Keeps People From Believing In God

Another reason the Bible gives for lack of trust in God is ignorance. Jesus pointed out that "not knowing" is a source of error when it comes to believing in God.

You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God (Matthew 22:29).

The two things that characterize unbelief are ignorance of both the Scripture and the power of God. People do not know what the Bible says because they have not taken the time to carefully study it.

Furthermore, they do not understand the nature and greatness of God's power.

Humanity Is Deliberately Ignorant Of God

The Bible says that humanity is deliberately ignorant of God.

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of humankind, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness (Romans 1:18).

Paul wrote:

There is none righteous, no, not one; there is none who understands; there is none who seeks after God (Romans 3:10,11).

These verses teach that people are not seeking after God but are actually running away from Him. They are suppressing, or "holding down," God's truth in unrighteousness. They are ignorant of God because they want to be ignorant.

Summary

There are many reasons people do not believe in God but it is not because of lack of evidence. People do not believe because of pride or an ignorance of God's Word and His power. Those who are ignorant of God want to be ignorant. They do not want to know Him.

E. W. Jackson #fundie rightwingwatch.org

Right-wing pastor E.W. Jackson dedicated his radio program on Friday to railing against the existence of “After School Satan” clubs, which are designed to serve as an ironic counter to the evangelical Good News clubs that operate in public schools.

Jackson, of course, was deeply opposed to allowing After School Satan clubs to meet in schools because he thinks that public schools should be teaching the Bible, prayer and Christianity as part of the standard curriculum.

“You know what we need?” he asked. “We need to bring prayer back into schools and we need to bring the Bible back into schools and we need to start telling children, like we used to in school, who made you—God. And have them singing, ‘Jesus loves me, this I know, for the Bible tells me so.'”

Jackson insisted that requiring such instruction in public schools would not violate the First Amendment because he claimed that restrictions on the establishment of religion only applies to Congress. The problem, he said, is that local school districts easily cave whenever “some idiot ACLU nutcase comes along” and threatens to sue because “they hate God.”

“They hate God, they hate any mention of God, they hate any notion of God. They hate Christianity,” Jackson said. “What they want to do is completely sanitize the country of the presence, the acknowledgement, the respect for almighty God and the church and the synagogue or anything that represents the God of the Bible.”

J.D. King #fundie webcache.googleusercontent.com

4 Unexpected Reasons Why Demons Have Greater Faith Than Many Churchgoers

I was recently reflecting on a conversation that took place a few years ago. A young man approached me to receive some badly-needed words of counsel. As I listened to some of his underlying struggles, it was clear that he really didn't have an intimate relationship with Jesus.

After dialoging for a while, I was compelled to ask where he stood in terms of his faith. He anxiously shifted in his seat and mumbled something along the lines of the following: "I know about Jesus and what He did on the cross. I believe the Bible has a lot of truth in it. What more is there to say?"

Although I didn't know him all that well prior to this conversation, I had observed his struggles from a distance. It would have been hard to miss the sporadic church attendance and his continual disengagement during the times of worship. His participation in the things of God was, at best, marginal. Although claiming to be Christian, darkness was all over him.

Under the unction of the Spirit, I asked him once again whether he truly had faith in God. Although insisting that he did, I could hear the hesitation in his voice. It was clear that he was struggling. Somehow I wanted to enable him to move out of this place of difficulty and trouble, but he wasn't going to do so if he didn't see where he stood with God.

If I hoped to get somewhere with him, I knew I would have to shock him. I felt like he needed to be overwhelmed with the futility of his present position. Yet, in order to do this, I would have to take a different approach. So I felt inclined to say something I had never uttered before.

I looked him and said, "I am convinced that the demons have greater faith than you!"

As you know, that's not the kind of statement people like to hear. Just as soon as these words tumbled from my mouth, I could see the lines on his face tighten. It was obvious that he recoiled at my observation. I honestly expected as much.

To move this strategy further, I knew I was going to have to clarify my point. Though it was hard to receive, I explained that Satan and his minions are more convinced of Jesus' identity and role than many churchgoers. This is an unpleasant truth that needs to be confronted from time to time.

Come on, how dynamic is one's faith, if the faith of demons is actually greater?

1. Demons Believe Jesus Is The Son Of God

I pointed out that early in the gospels, even before the disciples were convinced of His messianic role, demons publicly declared that Jesus was the Son of God. Scripture reveals the following:

"Whenever the evil spirits saw him, they fell down before him and cried out, 'You are the Son of God'" (Mark 3:11).

While many so-called "followers" struggle with who Jesus is, evil spirits are already firmly convinced of His status and position before the Father. They have no doubt that Jesus is truly the Son of God. It concerns me when the demons might be more assured of Jesus' role than we are.

2. Demons Read And Quote The Bible

I continued with this crazy assertion; suggesting that Satan and the hordes of hell actually know the Bible. This may seem unbelievable, but the forces of darkness are thoroughly convinced that scripture is true. In one disturbing example, Satan actually quotes from Psalm 91:11-12 in an attempt to undermine Jesus.

"The devil led him to Jerusalem and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. 'If you are the Son of God,' he said, 'throw yourself down from here. For it is written:' ‘He will command his angels concerning you to guard you carefully; they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone'" (Luke 4:9-11).

While unwilling to submit to the admonition and guidance of the Bible, demons have absolutely no qualms about its truth. They understand that every word written in its pages will be brought to bear upon creation. It is only a matter of time before every "jot and tittle" is fulfilled. That is more than can be said about backslidden churchgoers. They not only struggle with reading the Bible, they are also conflicted about what it is saying. There is something wrong when "Christians" neither know, nor value what God is saying.

3. Demons Believe In The Final Judgment

I went on to explain to this young man that demons are also convinced about God's judgment and establishment of righteousness in the earth. Even prior to Jesus' death and resurrection, evil spirits were already persuaded that wickedness was on its last leg. They actually expected to be punished. A few of the demons publicly declared the following to Jesus:

“What do you want with us, Son of God?” the demons shouted. “Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?” (Matthew 8:29)

I've met churchgoers unwilling to accept the reality of the final judgment. While demons believe God will subjugate all evil, some lethargic, pew-sitters aren't so sure. They are expecting appeasement, not eradication.

4. Demons Believe And They Tremble

Finally, I explained that the evil spirits believe in God and have such an awareness of that truth that it elicits an vigorous response. Imagine, their faith in the reality of God actually causes a tangible reaction to take place. The scriptures boldly declare the following:

"You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that–and shudder" (James 2:19).

The Apostle James suggests that the demons' faith in God is so intense that it causes "physical manifestations" to erupt. They quiver and shake in the revelation of His glory. That is more than I can say about many churchgoers. Many so-called followers of Jesus claim to believe in God but there is absolutely no manifestation of that reality in their lives.

Understand, that the demons believe in God and the reality of His purposes. They know who Jesus is and exactly what He accomplished on the cross. They believe in scripture, salvation, and the final judgment. They believe in God, but are unwilling to change their allegiance or submit to His wonderful plan.

By the time I was done talking, the young man understood what I was saying. He became quiet and began to tear up. The gravity of my words began to grip him. I offered to pray for him and bring a deeper sense of the presence of God. He, of course, agreed.

Like this young man, all of us need to search our hearts and determine whether our faith is greater than the faith of demons. I know that it's easy to dismiss all of this, but if you were to lay out where you stand today, what would we find?

Is your faith truly greater?

Ask Mr. Religion #fundie puritanboard.com

Morality requires something that says we "ought" to do this or "ought not" to do that. This "oughtness" cannot be derived from something impersonal, like the impersonal machinations of the universe, for no impersonal structure can create obligation. Obligatory moral standards presuppose absolute moral standards, which in turn presuppose an absolute moral personality, that is, God Almighty.

Truly objective moral values require something personal that defines what is good and what is not good and necessarily implies an accountability to one's actions. Moral accountability, if there is no God, merely implies morality become vain, since our fate is irrelevant to moral behavior.

Now the non-believer will counter that the theist believes either something is good because God wills it or else God wills something because it is good. They will then claim that the first alternative is unacceptable, since it makes what is good or evil an arbitrary distinction, and the second alternative implies that the good is independent of God. Hence, they will claim moral values cannot depend on God, but instead something outside of God.

Actually this is a false dilemma. God wills something because He is good. God’s nature determines what is good, hence the good is not independent of God, and His nature necessarily expresses itself toward us in the form of His commandments such that they are not arbitrary.

Laurie Ditto #fundie destinyimage.com

In a vision, Jesus took me to Hell. It was like a terrible, life-changing accident. You know how when an accident happens, you keep replaying over in your mind what you could have done differently? I have replayed August 28th over and over at least 1,000 times, if not more. “Oh God, what did I do wrong? Why did this happen to me?”

Because I have looked at this “accident” so much, I know many little details that have been etched into my memory. Many of them are unimportant, but I have memorized them nonetheless. I have looked for every little decision or detail that resulted in the worst day of my entire life—and possibly the most life-giving day for myself.

It is important to note that what I share here all happened instantly. It wasn’t an orderly progression, but I’ve tried to lay it out in an orderly fashion here.

How it Began
I worked for the evangelism department at the International House of Prayer, now called the Kansas City Evangelists’ Fellowship (KCEF). That morning we were in our weekly two-hour evangelism meeting.

As the meeting began with worship, I was standing at the back of the room. Before I can enter into worship in a heart-connect way, let alone in spirit and truth (see John 4:24), I have to tell my body, You will worship God. So that day I raised my hands to God and I sung loudly to Him. I engaged my mind to worship Jesus by contemplating the beauty of His love and the magnificence of His dying on the Cross for me. I let my emotions worship Him, which allows my heart to open to Him.

The worship leader was helping us pray for our lost family members, friends, neighbors, and co-workers. To really get a sustained heart for lost people, I have found I have to make it personal. I have to truly think about what it would be like for my lost family members to not make it to Heaven. When we think about someone we love not being in Heaven, it creates a real sadness and if we think about it long enough, it creates a desperation. These thoughts allow us to identify with a real emotion for the people we love. Because it’s such a negative emotion to experience, most people don’t go there. Evangelists are willing to expose their hearts to let God’s truth and urgency shape us. We don’t like the down emotion either, but by allowing it we become more tenderized to the eternal truth for lost souls. Then, sharing about Jesus becomes essential and very personal.

As we sang an evangelistic song, I felt the presence of holiness come into the room. The song gripped me and just seemed to add to the excitement I already felt. The music was captivating and took me to what I will call a worship place. The feeling in the room was the same as other times that I had been invited to come away with the Lord to visit Heaven. I knew I was being invited to go in the spirit. The holiness had come for me. I said, “Yes."

Transported to Hell
Then, all of a sudden, the front of the room opened up. I instantly opened my eyes and saw the transformation as it happened. The Hell realm unlocked and I heard massive gates creak open and I felt extreme heat enter the room. I looked with my eyes wide open and I saw Hell through the gates. I saw it! I was shocked that it was right there. Wasn’t it supposed to be in the center of the earth or below us? To say I panicked is an understatement!

Worship and prayer continued around me. The people were oblivious that Hell was at the front of the room. I watched those ominous gates open as I watched the people worshiping. The two places, the meeting room and Hell were together.

I frantically looked to see who might help me. The others didn’t see the gates, hear that sound, or feel the heat. Instinctively, I started screaming. I felt the sound of fear coming from my own body. I knew that my spirit was being demanded to submit. As I screamed, my spirit was also making a sound that deeply hurt my heart and brain while it also panicked every blood cell in my body.

Something came flying past the gates of Hell. It was coming for me. It was like an arm without fingers that grabbed me and sucked me into Hell. The arm was very powerful. It was attached to me like a suction cup in the area of my chest and began dragging me further into Hell. As quickly as it shot out from Hell, it just as quickly moved back. I tried to pull back and break the hold it had on me but it was too powerful.

Before I could blink, I knew this—it was too late. The gates slammed shut with a terrible sound of finality. I knew there was no man on this side or that who could ever open those gates. Only Jesus could because He owns Hell.

Inside the Gates
I passed through gates that trapped the darkness inside. The first thing I knew when I got there: I was in Hell. The realization that I was in Hell was unquestionably shocking and beyond hurtful! I don’t know how to explain just how panicked I was, although you may understand a bit if you’ve ever been lost.

It was like that but more dire. I was like a child and I had no plan. I panicked like no other panic I have ever experienced in my entire life. In fact, I knew that if I could add up every panic I have ever felt, it didn’t come close to what I was experiencing.

Someone said to me, “Laurie, you are in Hell!”

“Oh my God!” I answered.

I knew many things all at once. As I break them down to explain each one individually, it gives the false appearance that it was a slow progressive onslaught. But everything was immediate. For the sake of explanation, I knew three things first—I was in Hell, eternally, for unforgiveness.

Once the understanding of the judgment arrived in my heart there were four distinct pains:

Water—Immediately, all the water left my body, creating a desperate, painful need.
Bone marrow—In an instant my bones turned black.
Breath—The first breath allowed fire to touch everything in me and be carried throughout my body.
Agreement—Agreeing with the judgement that Hell is where I belonged removed my humanity.
Before that day, I had not studied much about Hell. I believed it was real because I believe the whole Bible is true, but I didn’t think that anybody like me would ever go there. I also knew about the Bible’s stance on unforgiveness. Although I knew, it was just easier to hold on to unforgiveness. I mean, with time, unforgiveness had become part of me. I would never have thought unforgiveness could take a person to Hell. My view was swiftly changed.

A Relational Problem
In Hell, I knew and understood the Bible perfectly. Every word of God that I had ever read was now completely clear. And I knew exactly how much I had disobeyed in comparison to my biblical understanding. I was keenly aware of everything about myself and my body. Stuff like my blood moving, my eyes seeing, and how all parts of my body work. I have never been in such awe of the creation of a human body. Everything I learned in eighth grade science I recalled perfectly. But even more, a supernatural knowledge filled in the blanks that I did not already know.

My knowledge about Hell, from the Scriptures, was also at the front of my awareness. I knew that everything I had read was true. All heartbreakingly true. I knew all of the scriptures on Hell, how much information was provided to me in the Bible about it, and how those scriptures fit with the rest of the Bible. I was fully awakened to the terrible reality of this place. The panic of knowing that I was in Hell grew. I was not a visitor.

I understood that Hell is a relational issue, not a problem to solve like a math question. A person cannot get out of Hell if they acquire the right answer. Hell was created because of a relational issue. One of the most important things I knew is that Hell wasn’t created because of human sin and we don’t go to Hell because of one particular sin. We all have sinned (see Rom. 3:23). This isn’t just a sin issue. It is a relational issue. Because of the Devil and his disobedience, disrespect, and disregard of God, Hell was created.

We think someone goes to Hell because they sinned, but really it is about disobeying and disrespecting God. The Bible says, “Kiss the Son, lest He be angry, and you perish in the way” (Ps. 2:12). That kiss is about love, affection, and obedience. We think that because people mess up, God sends them to Hell. But that is not true. How can we think God is bad? People go to Hell because they refuse to be in a relationship with God. Hell is about a refusal to love God and have a relationship with Him.

Although God literally forgave me everything, I chose to refuse to forgive certain ones. I was like the unmerciful servant in one of Jesus’ parables (see Matt. 18:21-35). When the servant refused to forgive the debt and stood before the king again, he was called wicked. It wasn’t because he simply made a mistake; it was because he wouldn’t enter into the relationship of mercy and grace and obedience to the King. It wasn’t only about what a person does; it is all about who they are in their heart.

ExaltGod #fundie exaltgod.deviantart.com

Why in the world do you call yourself a Christian if:

* You think the Bible is man-made, and not inspired by God
* You think evolution is true and Genesis is just a fairy tale
* You think something is only sinful if it hurts someone, and not if it's against God's law
* You think God is totally supportive of homosexuality
* You think God is totally supportive of other religions
* You think Hell is a ridiculous myth
* You think miracles are as real as invisible pink unicorns
* You think God just wants us to accept whatever lifestyles exist, even if they are incredibly sinful
* You think God loves pride parades
* You think God wants people to be homosexual
* You think it doesn't matter what anyone believes, because everyone's going to Heaven anyway
* You think God doesn't care how you live, as long as you say "I believe in God"
* You think God hates judging
* You think God loves tolerance for sin
* You think that when God returns to Earth to rule and reign, He's going to set up a democratic government, and that everyone will have a right sin as they please
* You think only a horribly evil God would ever punish people for breaking His law
* You think Jesus supports getting drunk
* You think pornography is totally fine
* You think prostitution should be legalized
* You think getting high is totally fine
* You think the Bible is outdated and bigoted, and should be ignored, except for John 3:16, and the very first part of Matthew 7, of course
* You think God doesn't hate anyone, ever
* You think Jesus died so that you could sin even more
* You think the most important thing is to be true to yourself, and be proud of who you are
* You think self esteem is more important than the fear of the Lord
* You think Jesus hates religion


Seriously...just, stop.
Just admit you're not a Christian already, would you?
Or rather, just admit that you hate God, you hate His word, and you hate Christianity.
Just admit it, and stop lying to everyone.

Pradeep Tilak #fundie examiner.com

Christians believe the following:

-God exists
-Everyone knows that God exists
-The unbeliever suppresses that God exists because he prefers sin
-The unbeliever makes up reasons to justify his unbelief, implicitly or explicitly
-These excuses seem perfectly fine until God reveals himself to the person individually
-This revelation is present to us in the Bible

Christians cannot hate atheists. They cannot marginalize them either. Every Christian knows that he himself was a God-hater, in subtle or not-so-subtle ways, before God saved him.

The Christian is grateful to God for saving him and hopes for God to save the atheist as he hopes for God to save everyone believing in false gods.

Atheists put up reason as their strong face in opposing the Christian norm. But is atheism reasonable? The secularization of America has provided a seed-bed for a God-less world as the basis for life today.

Yet, even the atheists must borrow a Christian worldview in order to think and act rationally. Atheism has no way to ground reason. If we came about by chance, our reason and thinking is a random product of chance, with no strong foundation for thought.

Trail Life USA #fundie traillifeusa.com

(Trail Life is the fundie answer to the Boy Scouts, formed after the decision to support gay members in the Boy Scouts.)

The Statement of Faith and Values is designed to affirm the need for those in leadership to follow biblical standards. Leaders are held to a higher standard than those who are not in leadership and must agree to the tenets contained in the Statement. All adults in leadership roles—whether staff or volunteer at any level—must agree to sign and adhere to the Statement of Faith. Youth members are not required to sign this statement.

Statement of Faith

We believe there is One Triune God – God the Father; Jesus Christ, His one and only Son; and the Holy Spirit – Creator of the universe and eternally existent. We believe the Holy Scriptures (Old and New Testaments) to be the inspired and authoritative Word of God. We believe each person is created in His image for the purpose of communing with and worshiping God. We believe in the ministry of the Holy Spirit, Who enables us to live godly lives. We believe each of us is called to love the Lord our God with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength, and to love our neighbors as ourselves. We believe God calls us to lives of purity, service, stewardship and integrity.

Statement of Values

Purity // God calls us to lives of holiness, being pure of heart, mind, word and deed. We are to reserve sexual activity for the sanctity of marriage, a lifelong commitment before God between a man and a woman.

Service // God calls us to become responsible members of our community and the world through selfless acts that contribute to the welfare of others.

Stewardship // God calls us to use our God-given time, talents, and money wisely.

Integrity // God calls us to live moral lives that demonstrate an inward motivation to do what is biblically right regardless of the cost.

Fred Butler #fundie fredsbibletalk.com

I have a reason to use the word “anti-theist” rather than atheist. The person who would hold to traditional atheism as a belief system is insistent that no compelling proof exists for him to believe in God. The atheist claims to be neutral when considering the evidence for the existence of God, but his “neutrality” is disingenuous, because he absolutely has no intention of abandoning his atheism and submit himself to God if and when that undeniable proof for God is discovered. Thus, in reality, the supposed atheist is against any and all evidence that would point to God. His attitude is one that is opposed to God as an anti-theist, rather than a neutral observer waiting around to see if God shows up.

I have a personal example of this attitude when I had an atheist challenge me to take his “god detector” test. This fellow had built a small box with a free-floating needle set in the center. The needle pointed toward the left side, and on the right side the atheist had written, “I exist.” The atheist’s challenge was that if I could ask God to move the needle so as to point to the words he had written, he would then believe God existed. I rolled my eyes and laughed, and then asked the atheist, “If the needle does move, will you abandon all of your atheistic beliefs and embrace Jesus Christ as your Lord?” He thought a moment and replied, “I don’t know, it depends on if the box wasn’t rigged and if God could do it once, then you could ask him to do it again, and when I determine there is no fakery and that the moves were genuine, then maybe I would think about it.” His response demonstrates clearly the true heart of the atheist: It is one that is opposed to God, rather than one honestly looking for God. He offered a simple test, but if the criteria of his test were actually met, then he would change the criteria until it was no longer a valid test in his mind and he would have a further excuse to justify his unbelief and rebellion toward God. Such is the heart of the anti-theist.

Joseff Amador #fundie amazon.com

It is clear that God hated Esau. Paul uses this example to say that Esau was a vessel of wrath prepared for destruction. Salvation and damnation are both things that exist to glorify God. You must embrace the God of the Bible, not the God of comfortable emotions. (that's an idol) Don't view God with sticky, romantic sentimentality, or view him with our fallen emotions.

We must think rightly about God, and to do that we must believe what the Bible says about him, even if sometimes it's a bitter pill to swallow. How comfortable we are about God's attributes and actions does not determine whether or not something is true. The Bible does, regardless how we feel about it. This is why Paul tells us to renew our mind, and conform it to the word of God, rather than vice versa.

Finally, a poster above is correct. You cannot separate the sin from the sinner. It is impossible for God to love the sinner but hate the sin. Sin is not an external thing that only exists on the surface level of who is a sinner is, but it penetrates to the core and defines who the sinner is. God does not throw sin into hell, he throws sinners into hell. God does not view sin as a desperate thing from the sinner (unless that person is saved, of course).

Jonathan Edwards is 100% correct. In hell, God will abhor you. The Bible tells us that God Himself describes his wrath being poured out by saying he will crush you under his feet until your blood splatters and stains all of His clothes. (Isa 63:3) If you cannot worship this God, then you are not worshiping the One True God, the God of the bible, but an idol. A god of your own making, a god in your own image.

Don't throw away God's holiness, righteouss, and wrath and justice against sin for the sake of His love. You must embrace and accept both attributes, or else you have a half-god, a false god.

David J. Stewart #fundie jesus-is-savior.com

Clint Eastwood Needs to Get Saved

I say this kindly, Mr.. Eastwood is not a Christian and Biblically is hellbound in his sins without Christ. Certainly, we are all sinners in the hands of an angry, but forgiving God to those who believe on Christ Jesus (Romans 5:8-9). I thank God for paying for my sins. I thank God for Calvary. I thank God for the mercyseat in Heaven where Christ applied His blood for our sins (Hebrews 9:12,24). No one has to go to Hell. God created Hell for the Devil and the demons, not for humanity. Albeit, Isaiah 5:14 says, “hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.” The wicked and the arrogant, like Mr. Eastwood who challenge the Words of God, will descend into the bottomless pit the moment they perish in their sins (Hebrews 9:27; John 8:24). The Scripture cannot be broken (John 10:35). What God has said will come to pass! Revelation 20:15, “And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”

Clint Eastwood rejects the Bible as God's holy Word, and so he has no fear of what awaits his soul in eternity. 2nd Thessalonians 1:8-9 paints a gruesome picture of eternal death in the flames of Hell, being punished by the wrath of God.

From Mr. Eastwood's own testimony it is clear that he does not embrace Christianity. In fact in Eastwood's movie, HEREAFTER, the little boy who stars in the film goes to search the internet and finds a preacher who says, “If you have Christ you have nothing to fear.” The boy negatively responds by shacking (wagging) his head back-n-forth to express his disbelief in Jesus Christ. It should not come as a surprise that most Jewish people reject Jesus as the Christ.

[...]

Mr. Eastwood carefully avoids expressing any particular religious belief, speculating that perhaps in all likelihood that “NOTHING HAPPENS AFTER YOU DIE.” But what saith the Scripture? Hebrews 9:27, “And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.” The Word of God teaches that judgment follows death. The unsaved who die IN THEIR SINS (which it appears that Clint Eastwood will) are judged at The Great White Throne of Judgment (Revelation 20:11-15). They are cast into the Lake of Fire (Greek: Gehenna) for ever and ever. The saved who die IN THE LORD (Revelation 14:13) are judged at The Judgment Seat of Christ (2nd Corinthians 5:9-11).

[...]

It appears as if Mr. Eastwood wants to remain Mr. Cool, nonchalant, middle-of-the-road in his beliefs. You don't want to offend anybody in Hollywood, especially the Christ-rejecting Jewish bosses. I'm sure Eastwood and his buddies frequently have a good laugh over a beer, while downplaying God and the Bible. What's the big deal? We're all going to die. Eastwood professes to be a fatalist, that is, whatever happens happens. The problem is that God has already warned us through the Bible what will happen. No one is ignorant of the Laws of God in America. Clint Eastwood is no stranger to the battle in America over God—In God We Trust, One Nation Under God, the battle over prayer and Bibles in public schools, et cetera. Mr. Eastwood is 81 and has been around the world, living through it all; and yet he doesn't know what he believes at 81 years of age. I'm flabbergasted!

Ben Masada #fundie forums.carm.org

According to the atheistic approach above, as far as I am concerned, he cannot say for sure that he knows that God does not exist, or he will be taken as a fool. So, he has no choice but to believe that God exists. If he knew for sure that God existed, he would not have to say that he believes in God. It stands the reason then, that atheists cannot be sure about anything or they will be taken by fools. In that case, he must believe that God exists, since he is not sure He does.

many #fundie rr-bb.com

Okay, I know this may seem controversial if you've heard of the Westboro Baptist Church, but if you haven't heard of them, they're a church operating out of Topeka, Kansas. They achieved infamy by picketing the funerals of gays and U.S. soldiers with their main motto being "God Hates Fags." Now, I believe that Fred Phelps, love him and his tactics or hate him, is right in one aspect: God DOES hate fags. The Bible spells out exactly what God thinks of gays, so why the political correctness about it? I think every Christian ought to be expressing what an abomination it really is, after all, if the message is loud and shocking enough, perhaps more gays will convert, and make it to Heaven and NOT the lake of fire. I say the message of "God Hates Fags" shouldn't be demonized, what say you?
---
True, I disagree with his tactics. I don't agree that funerals should be picketed, but the controversial part is his message. That message is that homosexuality is an abomination, and those who practice it are abominations to God. I believe that gays should be placed in ex-gay camps, like drunks are placed in AA meetings. If their lifestyle persists, perhaps jailtime is in order. After all, AIDS doesn't spread itself, right?
---
Well, I'm just trying to toss out the best way possible to create a quick enough change in people. No one here wants them to go to Hell, I just think drastic measures could be taken, that's all.
---
Well how do you react knowing the state of the nation right now? YOU saw the gays invade that church, it was on the news. You know that babies are being slaughtered every day in abortion-mills. You know that militant atheists are teaching our children there is no God. This is a very grave state of affairs, and I for one am concerned.

ExaltGod #fundie exaltgod.deviantart.com

If you believe there is no God, you have faith.

No human can absolutely disprove the existence of any God.
That's because no human can be in all places at all times.

Christians believe in the one true God of the Bible.
The God of the Bible, who can be at all places at all times, tells us in His word that He is the one true God.
Any other "gods" are simply devils.

Atheists, on the other hand, don't have a witness to refer to who can be at all places and all times.
Therefore, they take it on faith that no God exists.
They can't actually prove it.

To sum up:

*If you believe there is no God, you have faith.
*If you simply say that no one can know if there is a God, you don't necessarily have faith.

2 Samuel 7:22
"Wherefore thou art great, O Lord God: for there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears."

ephraimanesti #fundie christianforums.com

Atheists have taken dishonesty to new and ludicrous heights by pretending to have sought high and low for evidence that God exists and, supposedly failing to find such evidence, have wandered off into the darkness mumbling that "there ain't no God." The problem being with this scenario, of course, is that the so-called evidence they have "examined" has been hand-selected to provide the pre-determined desired "proof" of the lack of God's existence. All evidence which WOULD prove the existence of God is, on one bogus pretext or another, disallowed. God is perfectly capable of proving His own existence--the problem is He can only work with open minds.

If atheists were REALLY interested in proof of God's existence, each one of them would look within themselves, find out what the inner need is which drives them to deny the obvious, get that need healed or met as the case may be, and start living like rational children of God. That worked well for me.

Let Us Reason #fundie letusreason.org

What does Scripture say about Polygamy?

In Matt. 19:4 we are told by Jesus that God created one “male and [one] female” and joined them in marriage. Mark 10:6-8:"But from the beginning of the creation, God 'made them male and female.' 'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, 'and the two shall become one flesh'; so then they are no longer two, but one flesh.
The two as one is the pattern on how marriage was to be conducted from the start. NOT three or four as one.

Eve was taken from Adams body and given back to him as his wife (singular) showing God’s approval of what the marriage union is to be like. God always spoke of man's “wife,” as singular, not wives. Notice it also states one father one mother.

It wasn’t until sin made man fall (Gen. 4:23) that polygamy occurs. Cain was cursed, Lamech is a descendent of Cain and the first to practice polygamy. The first time polygamous relationship is found in the Bible is with a thriving rebellious society in sin; when a murderer named “Lamech [a descendant of Cain] took for himself two wives” (Gen.4:19, 23).

The same Godly pattern of one man and one wife is lived by Noah. At the time of the Ark (Gen. 7:7), Noah took his one wife into the ark, all his son’s took one wife; God called Noah’s family righteous and pure. If polygamy were ordained of God, it would have made sense that Noah and his sons would have taken additional wives with them to repopulate the earth faster from the cataclysm.

This was to be a permanent union between man and woman that they might be helpful to one another (Genesis 2:18). Marriage represents a relationship of both spiritual and physical unity.

Hebrews 13:3-4: “Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge.”

We have examples of saints in the Old Testament going off the commandment i.e Solomon, but this is not God approved. Many of the patriarchs took more than one wife. Abraham, by recommendation of Sarah, took her maid. Jacob was tricked through Laban, into taking Leah first, and then Rachel, to whom he had been betrothed. polygamy was not wrong in ancient cultures, but was a departure from the divine institution that God ordained.

In the Bible I count 15 examples of polygamy from the time of Lamech to 931 A.D. 13 of these men had enough power that no one could call into question their practice, they were unaccountable or no one dared approach them. Lamech Genesis 4:19; Abraham Genesis 16; Esau Genesis 26:34; 28:9; Jacob Genesis 29:30; Ashur 1 Chronicles 4:5; Gideon Judges 8:30; Elkanah 1 Samuel 1:2; David 1 Samuel 25:39-44; 2 Samuel 3:2-5; 5:13; 1 Chronicles 14:3; Solomon 1 Kings 11:1-8; Rehoboam 2 Chronicles 11:18-23; Abijah 2 Chronicles 13:21; Jehoram 2 Chronicles 21:14; Joash 2 Chronicles 24:3; Ahab 2 Kings 10; Jehoiachin 2 Kings 24:15; Belshazzar Daniel 5:2; 1 Chronicles 2:8; Hosea in Hosea 3:1,2. Polygamy is mentioned in the Mosaic law and made inclusive on the basis of legislation, and continued to be practiced all down through the period of Jewish history to the Captivity, after which there is no instance of it on record (Gen.29:15-30, Jacob and his wives.)

Was Abraham, David Solomon condemned or approved for practicing polygamy? Well they certainly did not get blessed for it! The fact that every polygamist in the Bible like David and Solomon (1 Chron. 14:3) were punished. This should be evidence that this is not God’s will.

God never condoned polygamy but like divorce he allowed it to occur and did not bring an immediate punishment for this disobedience. Deut. 17:14-17: “I will set a king over me like all the nations that are around me,' “you shall surely set a king over you whom the LORD your God chooses; one from among your brethren you shall set as king over you; you may not set a foreigner over you, who is not your brother. But he shall not multiply horses for himself, nor cause the people to return to Egypt to multiply horses, for the LORD has said to you, 'You shall not return that way again.' “Neither shall he multiply wives for himself, lest his heart turn away; nor shall he greatly multiply silver and gold for himself.” This is the command of God, and he has never changed it.

1 Kings 11:3 says Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines violating the principle of monogamy that he was given through the law of Moses. Consider that Solomon at one time was the wisest man in the world. In I Kings 11:4: “For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the LORD his God, as was the heart of David his father.” Notice Solomon became a polytheist because he was influenced in polygamy. In his case many wives, became many gods. Scripture has always commanded monogamy (Ps.128:3; Prov. 5:18; 18:22; 19:14; 31:10-29; Eccl. 9:9).

The fact is that God never commanded polygamy or divorce. Scripture says (Bible) He only permitted it because of the hardness of their hearts (Deut. 24:1; Matt. 19:8). Matt. 5:31-32: “Furthermore it has been said, “Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce. But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.” God hates divorce as well as polygamy, since it destroys the family (Mal. 2:16). Whatever the patriarchs or any Christian did wrong does not change the fact the Bible condemns it.

There are some stipulations in the law that are connected to this subject. Matt. 22:24: “Teacher, Moses said that if a man dies, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife and raise up offspring for his brother.” This is based on the commandment found in Deut. 25:5-6: “If brothers dwell together, and one of them dies and has no son, the widow of the dead man shall not be married to a stranger outside the family; her husband's brother shall go in to her, take her as his wife, and perform the duty of a husband's brother to her. “And it shall be that the firstborn son which she bears will succeed to the name of his dead brother, that his name may not be blotted out of Israel. ”

Multiple wives was tolerated but never with God's approval. Jesus told the Jews, "Because of your hardness of heart, Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way" (Matthew 19:3-8). The Mosaic law aimed at mitigating, rather than removing, evils that were inseparable from the state of society in that day. Its enactments were directed to the discouragement of polygamy; to prevent the injustice frequently consequent upon the exercise of the rights of a father or a master; to bring divorce under some restriction; and to enforce purity of life during the maintenance of the matrimonial bond.

The Bible says adultery is not a choice, one does not have to acquire another wife to solve his urges. Jesus said if you look upon another woman with desire (married or not) it is adultery, a sin.

Paul insisted that a leader in the church should be “the husband of one wife,” a deacon or elder must have one wife... Titus 1:6.

The New Testament teaches that, “Each man [should] have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband” (1 Cor. 7:2). Monogamous marriage teaches us the type of the relation Christ has between himself and His bride, the church (Eph. 5:31-32). The church is called the bride, collectively as one (singular) each person is not a bride, as in plurality of wives and marriages.

How many wives did Adam have in Gen.2:24? One, God did not take two wives out from his side. Monogamy has always been God's standard for the human race. From the very beginning God set the pattern by creating a monogamous marriage relationship -one man and one woman, Adam and Eve (Gen. 1:27; 2:21-25). It cannot be interpreted he became one with “each wife”; then this would mean he would be a husband to each, committing adultery. God certainly could have made two or more wives for Adam, this would have endorse the idea of polygamy, but he made only one.

The Bible clearly and decidedly states that God does not condone or allow the practice of polygamy over and over again.

(No name given) #fundie debunkingskeptics.com

Argument # 29: Atheists don’t claim that God doesn’t exist. They lack belief in God. The burden of proof for God is on the Theist, not the Atheist.

This is a technicality that Atheists use to try to put the burden on the other side. They claim that since “A-theism” means “without a belief in God”, they are not claiming anything and therefore do not have to prove anything. Thus, they claim, the burden of proof is on the Theist, who claims that God exists.

However, this makes little difference either way because their core philosophy toward God is still the same. Deep down, they believe that there is no God, and they know it. The reason why they emphasize this is to try to put themselves in an unattackable position. It’s a semantic ploy. To try to be consistent with it, they will say “There is no evidence for God” rather than “God doesn't exist”, but sometimes they slip up.

They can’t really prove that God doesn’t exist because you can’t prove a negative. Regardless, the Atheist obviously believes deep down that there isn't a God or deity anyway, which is prevalent in their attempts to debunk and refute every single argument for the existence of God. Therefore this trivial debate about the implications of the word “Atheism” seems pointless in substance.

For some critiques of Atheist arguments, see these links:

"How to respond to a Supercilious Atheist": http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/01/how_to_respond_to_a_supercilio.html

"The Irrational Atheists", has a free ebook you can download: http://www.irrationalatheist.com

Otomon #fundie disclose.tv

Satan has been using many different devices and contraptions in order to lure the already lost closer to a Christless eternity. While some Christians agree that a few of Satan's methods are rock music, "Christian" rock, movies, and television, one of the ones that can often be forgotten is computer games. I have had some gaming experience in my life, and if you look carefully, you can pinpoint Satan's tricks of the trade quite easily. I will display some of these a little later.

Satan knows he's already been judged by the Lord Jesus and is going to Hell for eternity, so before he gets tossed into the lake of fire, he will attempt to get as many people as he can to fall in the ditch with him so they will burn up with him – FOREVER (Revelations 12:12).

In computer games (and any other medium), he knows that it is important to desensitize man to his bidding, so he's got to make them tolerate the material, then accept it, then finally imitate it. In this article, I'm trying to focus on how Satan uses these games to help increase the population of Hell.

The praise of Satan

One of the first things that I thought of when deciding to write this article were the occultic symbols that can be found in some popular games. Doom, by Id Software, is considered by many to be the greatest game of all time. Its graphics and eerie sounds and music are probably the creepiest on the market. But why are there so many satanic symbols found in the game??

In the first episode "Knee Deep in the Dead", some pentagrams can be found. Click here to see a sample. At the last level of the first episode, Phobos Anomaly, the hero of the game, a stranded space marine, must step onto a platform with the symbol of a goat behind a pentagram in order to exit the level. In the first level of the second episode "The Shores Of Hell", an inverted cross can be found right near the beginning. In the third episode, called "Inferno", more pentagrams can be found on the ground in one of the levels. Teleporters, which move the player to different areas of the level, have pentagrams on them – some are different than others, for example, one of them has a 6 on it, but they are still there, and that's what matters. Click here to see a sample screen.

When exiting the shareware version of the game, you will see a screen with more info about what is in the full registered version. Here's what a section of it says:

"… Sure, don't order DOOM. Sit back with your milk and cookies and let the universe go to Hell. Don't face the onslaught of demons and spectres that await you on The Shores of Hell. Avoid the terrifying confrontations with cacodemons and lost souls that infest Inferno.

Or, act like a man! Slap a few shells into your shotgun and let's kick some demonic butt. Order the entire DOOM trilogy now! After all, you'll probably end up in Hell eventually. Shouldn't you know your way around before you make the extended visit? …"

This is a good example of how Satan, working behind the curtains, likes to make himself subtle and put into the ranks of Santa (Satan?) Claus, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy. But if possible, Satan would rather have himself worshipped ( Isaiah 14:14 ). According to Revelation 13, the whole world will worship the dragon (Satan).

Afterlife, by Lucasarts, is another one of Satan's highest masterpieces of subtlety in the area of computer games. In the game, which is reminiscent of Simcity 2000, players develop a Heaven and Hell that is far from the Heaven and Hell of the Bible. The plotline is that you are a local deity that must take care of Heaven and Hell. Intended to be humorous, the object of the game is to zone areas for the seven virtues and sins for souls of an alien race to inhabit without going bankrupt (If you do get bankrupt, "The four Surfers of the Apocalypso" come and destroy Heaven and Hell).

The different religions in the game each consist of four letter acronyms. Depending on what the souls believe will determine where they go – if they believe in one of the religions that involves reincarnation, like RALF (Reincarnation always loops fate), they will go back to earth to return at a later time. If they only believe in Heaven (OCRA, Only Cloud Realms Await) or Hell (OPRA, Only Pit Realms Await), they will go there. Some can even believe that they go from Heaven to Hell continually (SUMA, souls undergo multiple afterlifes). This all makes me think of the "More than one way to Heaven" tactic the ecumenical movement is using right this second. One of the religions is HOHO (Heaven or Hell only). HOHOists, depending on the good vs. evil balance in a soul, determines where the soul goes. Did the designers of this game contact the Watchtower Society, the Promise Keepers, or the LDS church for help on making this game or something?

In Heaven/Hell, the souls are rewarded/punished in different buildings depending on the virtue/sin they've done, and the buildings are all meant to be humorous. Some of the buildings in Hell are "Hellrose Place", "Camp Mennihackatorso", while some of the buildings in Heaven are "Coffee shops of The Word", "Eternal Afternoon", etc.. It's all a way of trying to make Satan and Hell more subtle.

Quake, one of Id Software's more recent offerings, is much like Doom, but much more technologically advanced, with polygons instead of sprites. But don't let that fool you – there's more of the same satanic fare, only just a bit more in your face. While loading up Quake or Doom, there is a loading indicator in the top right or bottom right of the screen. In Doom, the indicator was a small picture of a disk, but in Quake, in the top right of the screen however, it is a pentagram. Click here to see a sample screen. How do these things get in here??

This is just the beginning. One of the powerups in Quake is called "The pentagram of protection", a red rotating pentagram. Click here to see a sample screen. It makes your character invincible for a brief period of time. While the powerup is in affect, your characters armor rating turns to "666" and the portrait of your character turns to a more demonic look. Click here to see a sample screen. Yet again I ask, how do these things get in here?

In order to open doors and trigger reactions to help progress through the levels, buttons need to be pushed. One of these buttons has a star that is in front of a smaller circle. Is this another pentagram?? Click here to see a sample screen. Also in the picture, you can see a box of nails (the nails are ammo for the nailgun, a rapid fire weapon in the game) has the "NIN" symbol on it. That is the symbol for the blasphemous industrial group, Nine Inch Nails, which did the CD soundtrack (no lyrics) for the game!

Trent Reznor, the lead singer of Nine Inch Nails, often blasphemes Jesus in his songs. Here's an example with the song "Terrible Lie":

"Hey God, why are you doing this to me?

Am I not living up to what I'm supposed to be?

Why am I seething with this animosity?

Hey God, I think you owe me a great big apology

Terrible lie

Terrible lie

Terrible lie

Terrible lie

Hey God, I really don't know what you mean.

Seems like salvation comes only in our dreams.

I feel my hatred grow all the more extreme.

Hey God, can this world really be as sad as it seems…"

What blasphemy! He actually thinks God owes him something, when he owes God! And like usual, he denies salvation. In another NIN song, Heresy, Reznor denies the resurrection of Jesus Christ!

"He sewed his eyes shut because he is afraid to see

He tries to tell me what i put inside of me

He's got the answers to ease my curiosity

He dreamed up a god and called it christianity

Your god is dead and no one cares

If there is a hell I will see you there…"

Trent Reznor also has an instrumental only song called "Help me i am in Hell". Seeing the path he's chosen, it might not be too long before the song title becomes a reality for him!! Hopefully he will repent and get saved before it is too late for him.

Some of the levels in Quake have joyful names like "Castle of the damned", "Hell's Atrium", "The palace of hate", and "Satan's dark delight". What I find more interesting is how there is a question and answer section in the Quake instruction manual, and there is a question that goes something like this…

Q: Are you guys Satanists?

A: No.

Yet again, they treat the whole thing as a joke. But it's not a joke at all. Satan is getting everyone prepared for his worship, and these games are a great way for him to do that. The games can be fun, but in order to play the game you must look at these symbols. And as people look at them more, they consider them usual, and it won't be long before they get interested in occult activities.

As with Doom, there is a screen that appears when you exit the shareware version of Quake that shows you how to order the registered version of the game. It is nothing more than another piece of blasphemy created by Id.

"… Yes! You only have one fourth of this incredible epic. That is because most of you have paid us nothing or at most, very little. You could steal the game from a friend. But we both know you'll be punished by God if you do. WHY RISK ETERNAL DAMNATION? Call 1-800-IDGAMES begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 1-800-IDGAMES end_of_the_skype_highlighting AND BUY NOW! Remember, we love you almost as much as he does…"

Hexen, also by Id, one of the cheat codes (hidden codes that can be typed in to cheat or change certain playing conditions in the game) is "Satan". If typed in, the "God mode" will be activated, making the player invincible to all obstacles. Makes you think of Isaiah 14:14, doesn't it?

Hexen 2, the sequel to Hexen, although I've never played it, I know that the cover of the box has a demon like creature wrapped in some sort of a snake like thing, with both of the demon's hands in the satanic salute.

In the controversial Duke Nukem 3d, created by 3D Realms, the third level in the first episode is called "Death Row". In an area near the beginning of the level (The level is a prison facility) there is a chaplain, where inside, there is a cross on the wall. Click here to see a sample screen. If Duke Nukem, the game's morally decayed hero, touches a gray portrait in front of the cross, it will invert Click here to see a sample screen. I found it interesting after I played this game, some parent and family groups were complaining to the company about the violence and sexual content in the game, yet it seemed nobody really brought up the inverted cross issue right into the open. The desensitization works!

In Warcraft 2, by Blizzard Entertainment, one of the buildings, the altar of storms, has a pentagram on it. Click here to see a sample screen. In Diablo, another game made by Blizzard, pentagrams can be found rather easily in the menus of the game.

The whole "God mode" agenda

In some games, there is an "invincibility mode", which makes the player invulnerable to enemy attacks, so the player will not die. However in recent years, it seems the industry is changing the term "Invincibility mode" to "God mode". I think that this is another way Satan wants people to think that they are gods, when they are really not (Genesis 3:5). But there is only one God (Mark 12:32).

Nowadays, more people are worshipping their friends or their favorite music stars, and are calling themselves gods and goddesses. It won't be long before they all turn their attention on the Antichrist, and later, gnash and wail their teeth (Matthew 13:42) in the lake of fire (Revelations 20:15).

This article is only scratching the surface. Each year more and more games come out, and satanic influences in computer games are gradually becoming more and more visible. But it won't be long before Satan loses the battle.

Ray Comfort #fundie facebook.com

“Hi Ray Comfort, can you please tell me how you would recommend witnessing to a close relative who is a very convinced atheist, and who is dying of cancer? Many thanks.” Delphine R. Noah

We will pray for him. Maybe he will read this:

It was early in the morning. Very early. Most people in the airport looked as though they could have done with an extra week or so in bed. I was flying back from New York to Los Angeles waiting to board a plane when a tall man asked me, “What rows did they call?” I answered, “First class… the rich folks.” He smiled and said, “Yeah. The ones who should be going on their own Learjet.” I handed him a Million Dollar Bill tract and said, “Here’s the down payment on your Learjet.” When he smiled, I passed him a Department of Annoyance tract, and said, “And here’s my card.” He turned it over and to my horror began to read out loud the gospel message on the back—despite the fact that the text was printed in reverse to give me getaway time. When I quickly added, “It’s a gospel tract,” he mumbled “I’m an atheist.”

While atheism is the ultimate intellectual suicide, I can understand why some people are tempted to believe that there’s no God. The previous night I had listened to a CNN report that scientists had discovered why human beings are more intelligent than animals. I was intrigued with their assumption, and listened to how scientists believed that 20 million years ago we developed larger brains. They predicted that the human brain will continue to grow, giving us larger heads. This will mean that future generations will see more Cesarean births. I admired the newscaster’s ability to remain straight-faced.

A few minutes later, CNN reported that after a giant tsunami in Southeast Asia killed multitudes, authorities could hardly find any animals that died in the flooding. They surmised that the animals had some sort of intelligence that caused them to move to higher ground when the tsunami-causing earthquake struck. It was human beings who stayed on the beach to take pictures of the wave as it approached.

As I stood in line at the airport, the morning newspaper showed a picture of a ten-year-old piece of grilled cheese sandwich which was said to bear the likeness of the Virgin Mary. It was sold on eBay to an “intelligent” human, who paid $28,000 for it.

It is information like this that should help anyone with any intelligence to realize that humanity isn’t as intelligent as we are led to believe. While most Christians are too smart to bite into the error of Virgin Mary toast, they profess a faith that makes no sense. While watching TV in my hotel room the night before, I saw a well-known pastor talk about his book, which has sold a phenomenal 20 million copies. He said that God’s agenda for humanity was to “make our lives better.” That was a summation of his message.

Tell that to those who were burying tens of thousands of human corpses after the tsunami hit. Tell that to the fathers who hold the dead bodies of their beloved children in their arms, or to the relatives of those who died of horrific diseases. It doesn’t take much intelligence to realize that if there is a God who created all things, He must be all-powerful. Nothing is impossible for Him. He therefore could have easily prevented unspeakable agony by simply lifting His finger off the earthquake button. But He didn’t.

Yes, there is plenty of evidence (from cheese sandwiches to tsunamis) for a thinking person to conclude that a God of love who is all-powerful and wants to better the life of humanity doesn’t exist. If He did, He would immediately get a supply of good food to the starving in Africa so that their lives may be better, or at least provide some rain to grow their crops.

During that same day the tsunami hit, 150,000 other people died around the world—about 40,000 of starvation. If He wanted to make our lives better, perhaps He could also halt the parade of killer hurricanes that line up to regularly devastate the U.S., or He could slow down the hundreds of terrifying tornadoes that take precious human lives each year. Maybe He could even whisper to us a cure for the cancers that are killing millions annually, including innocent children.

A quick look at Jeremiah 9:21-24 gives the answer to this intellectual dilemma. How could God be loving and yet allow suffering? The Bible tells us that He is in control, and that He does send judgments to this earth. God is love, but He’s also just and holy and if He gave us what we deserve, the tsunami of His holiness would sweep us all into Hell.

Imagine you have knowledge that a bridge has been washed out by a terrible storm, on a dark and moonless night. You stop all approaching cars and say, “The bridge that spans a thousand-foot chasm has been washed away! Please turn your vehicle around.” The violence of the storm itself is enough to convince any thinking driver that you are speaking the truth, and those who have the sense to believe you do turn around.

Tsunamis, terrible diseases, agonizing cancers, massive earthquakes, devastating tornadoes, killer hurricanes, awful suffering, and death itself are very real and violent storms that should be enough to convince any thinking person that our warning is true.

The message of Christianity isn’t one of God wanting to better this life for humanity. It is one of warning of a terrible fate in store for those who continue on the road of sin. We are told by God’s Word that there are two deaths on the highway to Hell. The first death is when we leave the storms of this life and pass into timeless eternity. The second death is the chasm of eternal damnation. It is the terrifying justice of a holy God.

So with the cheese sandwich insanity, and the confusion about the message of Christianity, I could sympathize with my atheist friend in the airport. When he professed atheism it gave me the opportunity to humbly cite my atheist credentials. I said, “I wrote a book called God Doesn’t Believe in Atheists: Proof the Atheist Doesn’t Exist.” Then I told him that I was a platform speaker at the American Atheists’ national convention in 2001. I offered, “It’s really easy to prove God’s existence.” He replied, “It’s not healthy for me to talk about God.” I said that I could understand that, and added, “But you are a reasonable and open-minded person, so you can listen to me for two minutes.”

He gave me the okay, so I told him how he could know for sure that God existed, that God had given him a conscience and that if he even lusted after a woman, Jesus said that he had committed adultery already with her in his heart. I also mentioned that if a criminal was given a death sentence and he said to the judge, “But I don’t believe in the electric chair,” it didn’t change reality.

He politely listened, and said, “Well, I’d better board the plane.” He reached out his hand, shook mine and said, “My name is Pat.” I told him my name, watched him board, and prayed that he would read the literature that he still held in his hand… and that he would have the intelligence to believe the words of warning.

One other thing. We know that God exists for the same reason we know when we look at a building, that a builder built it. Buildings don’t build themselves. And neither did creation (Nature) make itself. That is a scientific impossibility.

Freesu-San #fundie deviantart.com


Okay, I've said it before, and I'll say it again (this time I'll just elaborate): its only God that defines marriage; not you, not humans, not the government, not some activists, just God alone.

And before you say stuff like "Then polygamy is okay", or "But love is love!", or whatever excuse you're about to come up with, let me just get some stuff straight here, especially on some certain issues:


Polygamy
Okay, some of you may think that there are people in the Bible that practice polygamy (well, there were). But the big question is this: is polygamy acceptable? The answer is no.

Can a man love more than one wife? Certainly not.

A man cannot love more than one wife, neither should a woman love more than one husband. (1 Corinthians 7:1-2). The Scriptures tells us that "each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband." This sinful practice can be classified as a combination of fornication and adultery.

In countries such as Brazil and Netherlands that have legalized it, it has created a whole deal of chaos in those families, and the rest of the people.

Polygamous marriages, (or known to some countries as "group marriages"), can put a whole household into so much unrest and ruins, and it will have a negative impact on children living in polygamous families.

Having said that, polygamy is also classified as greed, because they will even take other men's wives, which before God is wrong. God created marriage between 1 man and 1 woman, Adam and Eve, not one man and multiple wives, not even Adam and multiple Eves.

Now I mentioned it, during Issac's time, people were seeing polygamy as a norm (which before God its not). But Issac married only one wife, and that's Rebekah. He loved her dearly, and he was loyal to her that he did not take another wife for any reason whatsoever.

Joseph, the 11th son of Jacob did not take many wives himself; he only married one woman, and had two sons with her.

Some of you reading this may think that the Bible condones polygamy. Wrong. And in case you didn't know, it's actually Islam that allows that practice, not Christianity. And with that being said, God's Word never for once approves it. The Bible also says "Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away: neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold." (Deuteronomy 17:17). Even the New Testament makes it clear that men are ought to have one wife, for example, when speaking about the role of the elders it says "A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach" (1 Timothy 3:2).
Bear in mind that phrase "the husband of one wife"; not two, not three, not four, not even 100, but one wife. That just tells you that polygamy is clearly unacceptable.

To all Christians reading this, and to all who are looking forward to be married someday, stick to one husband/wife.

Arranged marriage

Regardless of what you think, human beings are not Matchmakers. Okay? Unfortunately this thing is happening across the globe, more especially among rich people and Muslims. Some will even sell their daughters as child brides, which is totally wrong. Some will even kidnap young girls to forcefully marry them. That is why you even see human trafficking here, where they sell girls as child brides, forcing them to marry at such a young age. Its repulsive. Its wrong. Its downright immoral.

I mean, seriously, why can't they understand that God is the real Matchmaker? They just end up taking it into their own hands, and that never ends well. At all.

I mean, during Issac time, he wanted to marry but none of the ladies living there are even eligible because they all worship pagan gods. So God used Abraham's servant Eliezar, to bring the right wife for Issac.

God has His own way of bringing the right husband/wife for you, if you simply leave the matter to God's hands!

Same-sex "marriage"

A very widely debated topic, still going on today. And believe it or not, same-sex "marriage" is and will always be a sin. In fact, when it comes to homosexuality itself, the Bible does clearly forbids it. In countries such as Spain and Argentina that have allowed this practice, it has created a great deal of damage, to the point it even destroyed many families, and it is a very grave injustice to equality. Even in Netherlands, there has been a significant fall in the marriage rate since the day marriage was redefined. In France, there have been continuous large scale protests against this practice, even after the law was passed. In this century we live in, homosexuality is considered normal by many people. Whenever it is mentioned, it is not uncommon to hear someone ask "What's wrong with two people of the same gender falling in love? Isn't it normal?" The answers to these questions can be found in none other than the Bible.

In the modernized world we live in, people (especially Christians) are labelled as "homophobes" for not agreeing with homosexuality or anything related to it such as same-sex 'marriage', which is just foolish mentality.

The world considers what God clearly tells is unnatural to be natural (Romans 1:26-27). Some may argue that God's law forbidding homosexuality was only for the Old Covenant which God made between Himself and the Israelites. However, a quick search of the Scriptures will show that the New Testament has more verses condemning homosexuality than the Old Testament does.

Jesus himself gave God's definition of marriage in Mark 10:6-9, when he was speaking about marriage and grounds of divorce. He said that in the beginning 'God made them male and female.' He also said that "a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh'; so then they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate."

Plus, God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. Geez man.

Recent polls also show that children are better off with a married mother and father than same-sex couples.

The worst part about that is that some of todays churches are even accepting it as a norm. No. Its shouldn't be that way. Its not good, its not Biblical, its not Godly, its not right.

Please read the journal for more information: fcu777.deviantart.com/journal/…

Transgender "marriage"

Possibly one of the rarely debated issues, transgender 'marriage' is as worse as same-sex 'marriage'. It will affect everybody in a really drastic way. When men liberalizes sin, and when sin demands rights and acceptance, that very nation will crumble down, and will eventually lead people to Hell. This practice is not genetically based, and it is not simply a psychological disorder that "have to live with"; it is rebellion against God's plan.

God created marriage solely between one man and one woman, but in today's world, they disregard the Truth and not only promote same-sex 'marriage', but also promote laws that involves a transgender person who was born a male to marry a man, and a transgender person born a female to marry a woman.

The most basic to our understanding of sex is that God created two (and only two) genders: male and female, as He created Adam as a man, and Eve as a woman. (Genesis 1:27). There is no room for error in God's creation, and no one is born with the "wrong body." as the transsexual activists so claim.

They may think they are right all the time, but God will weigh their hearts (Proverbs 21:2). And the Scriptures clearly warned of such pride:

"For the wicked boasts of the desires of his soul, and the one greedy for gain curses and renounces the Lord. In the pride of his face the wicked does not seek him; all his thoughts are, "There is no God." ~ Psalms 10:3-4

"For the sin of their mouths, the words of their lips, let them be trapped in their pride. For the cursing and lies that they utter" ~ Psalms 59:12

"For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life—is not from the Father but is from the world." ~ 1 John 2:16

And also the Bible says that He resists the proud and give grace to the humble (Proverbs 3:34). Some people (even the LGBT activists, and so-called Christians) may argue "But what's wrong with pride?!", when pride, unfortunately is what Satan uses to lead more people to Hell. It is no wonder that many are too comfortable in sin that they are very hardened against The Word of God.

A man should stay as a man, and a woman should stay as a woman, is that too hard to ask?

See this for more information: fcu777.deviantart.com/journal/…

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What marriage is
When you hear the word marriage, its earliest use of that very English word dates back to the 13th century. However, it's more valuable than we can ever think. Having said so, there is more to marriage than just "love and romance". Unfortunately, many seem to deny that.

Who created marriage in the first place? God did. In the book of Genesis, highlights God's plan for marriage as it says:

"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. And God blessed them. And God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth." ~ Genesis 1:27-28
First of all, marriage, is not something that just happened recently in the century we live in. In fact the first marriage took place right in the beginning, when Adam and Eve are joined together as husband and wife (Genesis 3:21-24).

After he created Adam and all the animals, God said “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.” . So He put Adam to sleep, “and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.” (Genesis 2:21,22)

When a man and a woman get married they commit themselves to spending their lives in a new relationship. It is a partnership of love, made richer and deeper through sex. Like many people, Christians regard it as the best context for nurturing children. It is also seen as the best (many Christians would say the only) setting for sex.

In any marriage ceremony the bride and groom must confirm that they want to marry each other, and after the opportunity has been given publicly for anyone present to prevent the marriage if there is a legal reason, the couple join hands and make promises. They exchange rings, which are worn as a reminder of these promises for the duration of their married life.

Marriage is more than a man a woman joined together, it is a beautiful gift from God, a marital devotion solely between one man and one woman as God created it to be. And to add to it, marriage is meant to be for life, and not some cheap contract for people to use and dump. Jesus gave a solid warning concerning divorce, when He said, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her. And if a woman divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery." (Mark 10:11-12). Simple as that. Having said this, in marriage there should be room for reconciliation, else how can that marriage even stand?

"And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband: But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife." ~ 1 Corinthians 7:10-11

There are aspects that can either build or crumble down a marriage: fcu777.deviantart.com/journal/…

A spiritual aspect on marriage

Now, there is more to marriage than the earthly one itself. Having said this, if you look at the issue in a spiritual aspect, it actually reflects our relationship between us the Church, the children of God for that matter and our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ who is the head of the Church, the body of Christ to be precise. The earthly marriage has this high symbolism that most of us unfortunately are not even aware of or chose to overlook .

If you look at Isaiah 54:5 where it says "For thy Maker is thine husband; the Lord of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called." And also the Bible says that the husband is the head of the wife "even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior." And that as wives submit to their husbands, so do we as Christians submit ourselves to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and His will (Ephesians 5:23,24,32).

This is something we as Christians really need to keep in mind.

....

In Conclusion

Marriage is a very beautiful union that God has created. In fact, the government did NOT create marriage, God did. Marriage is more than just about love and romance between two people, it is a holy marital devotion between a man and a woman, the way God designed it. And before you ask, in as much as marriage is important, and it is a beautiful union defined by God as between one man and one woman, we are actually given a choice whether to marry or not. I mean 1 Corinthians 7:8-9 says "I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I. But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn." That just shows you that marriage is not by force. All in all, marriage is and always will be between one man and one woman.

Ron Rhodes #fundie mvcf.com

"I don't believe in God because there is so much evil in the world." Many atheists consider the problem of evil an airtight proof that God does not exist. They often say something like: "I know there is no God because if He existed, He never would have let Hitler murder six million Jews."

A good approach to an argument like this is to say something to this effect: "Since you brought up this issue, the burden lies on you to prove that evil actually exists in the world. So let me ask you: by what criteria do you judge some things to be evil and other things not to be evil? By what process do you distinguish evil from good?" The atheist may hedge and say: "I just know that some things are evil. It's obvious." Don't accept such an evasive answer. Insist that he tell you how he knows that some things are evil. He must be forced to face the illogical foundation of his belief system.

After he struggles with this a few moments, point out to him that it is impossible to distinguish evil from good unless one has an infinite reference point which is absolutely good. Otherwise one is like a boat at sea on a cloudy night without a compass (i.e., there would be no way to distinguish north from south without the absolute reference point of the compass needle).

The infinite reference point for distinguishing good from evil can only be found in the person of God, for God alone can exhaust the definition of "absolutely good." If God does not exist, then there are no moral absolutes by which one has the right to judge something (or someone) as being evil. More specifically, if God does not exist, there is no ultimate basis to judge the crimes of Hitler. Seen in this light, the reality of evil actually requires the existence of God, rather than disproving it.

David J Stewart #fundie #crackpot jesus-is-savior.com

Humanism is EVIL!

by David J. Stewart

“The pagan in Africa gets a piece of wood and builds him a god; the intellectual in the university gets his mind and builds himself a god.”
—Dr. Jack Hyles, from the sermon titled, How We Got Here

There is an evil under the sun lurking amongst mankind known as humanism..."An insane form of thinking that invades the human mind convincing it of it's superiority over God and His Word." I will repeat that definition of humanism again...

An insane form of thinking that invades the human mind convincing it of it's superiority over God and His Word.

Humanism is a direct enemy of Christianity and therefore Christ Himself. God hates humanism, but He surely loves the humanist. One must not confuse hatred against humanism with the love of God. As Christians, we are to love all people of all races of all nations. However, we are to hate the damnable heresies and evils that destroy the same people.

The Bible is God's Word. The King James Bible is the inerrant, infallible, preserved, eternal Word of God. Whether the heathen want to accept the Bible as God's Word or not is irrelevant...The Bible is God's Word.

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." -1st Peter 1:23

"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." -Hebrews 4:12

To those who reject God's gift of eternal life by spitting on the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Bible says...

"In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:" -2nd Thessalonians 1:8

Hell will be hot my friend. God doesn't want ANYONE to burn in hell, but the Bible is clear that ONLY those who go through Jesus Christ will make it to heaven...

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." -John 14:6

This is the major problem with HUMANISM...it does not recognize God at all. I was doing some research online about Humanism and ran across the Council for Secular Humanism website. The particular article I read was 10 Myths About Secular Humanism by Matt Cherry and Molleen Matsumura taken from Free Inquiry magazine, Volume 18, Number 1. I would like to comment on a few of their statements.

Article quote: "Yes, it's true that secular humanists don't believe in a God or an afterlife...Secular humanists plead guilty as charged to these and many other claims that show the genuine and radical differences between humanism and revealed religion. In fact, we are proud of these differences, and want to see them publicized and debated."
My response: Anyone who has faith in God should run as far away from secular humanism as they can. Frankenstein would be welcome in my home before I'd let Secular Humanism in the front door. The humanists openly admit that they DON'T believe in God, heaven, or hell. This is to their own demise. It is such atheistic godless-minded thinkers who are controlling the curriculum of the public school system in America. I am unalterably opposed to the heathen public school system. Humanism is of the devil because it denies Almighty God, the Lord Jesus Christ.
2. Article quote: "Humanists also emphasize the importance of self-determination - the right of individuals to control their own lives, so long as they do not harm others. Secular humanists, therefore, often promote causes where traditional religion obstructs the right to self-determination, for example, freedom of choice regarding sexual relationships, reproduction, and voluntary euthanasia"

My response: The above quote is clear, the Humanists are working in direct opposition to the New Testament church. Humanists openly PROMOTE a "Do-Your-Own-Thing" type mentality. Do you know that is exactly what the Church of Satan believes? They believe that you can do anything you want, just as long as no one else gets hurt. However, that is NOT what the Bible teaches. We are commanded in the Bible to OBEY GOD rather than men (Acts 5:29). How can Humanists obey God when they deny that He even exists? Without faith it is impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6).

Furthermore, abortion is murder and destroys a little babies' life. Is this not hurting someone? The Humanists and Satanists speak out of both sides of their mouth. The Homosexual community doesn't want the public to know the truth (the statistics) about their "freedom of choice" regarding Sodomy. There is a link between pedophilia and homosexuality. New York just opened the countries first exclusively homosexual high school...talk about discrimination. If someone started an ONLY white kids school, the public would go nuts. I guess being homosexual gives them special rights which allows for discrimination. The days are growing evil friend. Are you right with God in your heart? Have you accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Saviour? If not, please do so right now before it is too late. You have no guarantee of tomorrow (Proverb 27:1).

3. Article quote: "On the other hand, liberal Christianity has been deeply influenced by humanism."

My response: There is NO such animal as "liberal Christianity," just as there is no such thing as "Christian rock" music. Either it's Christian or it's heathen. It's sickening to hear professed "Christians" speak of "Theistic Evolution." The Bible teaches that God created the world as we know it in six days and then rested on the seventh. It is unbelief in God's Word to teach or believe anything else. Most people are woefully ignorant of what it means to be a Christian. Even false religions such as godless Catholicism call themselves "Christians." They are reprobates! I do not hate Catholics; on the contrary, I love them. I hate Catholicism because it is a damnable heresy totally out of line with the Bible. The Bible is God's Word, listen to the Bible NOT the dope in Rome.

4. Article quote: "But secular humanism is not a religion and humanists don't worship anything. We are far too realistic to worship humanity. While we recognize that all human beings have the potential to do good, we also realize that the potential exists for acts of great evil. Humanity's constant challenge is to understand itself and improve itself."

My response: Romans 1:25 says, "Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen." It is a very dangerous thing to re-create God in our own image. Mankind was created in God's image and we must not CHANGE that truth into a lie. When I think of the humanists, I think of a Proverb in the Bible (Proverb 19:3) which says, "The foolishness of man perverteth his way: and his heart fretteth against the LORD. Secular humanism is utter foolishness and an abomination before the Lord God. The Bible teaches that God created mankind, which means that God has the master blueprints (the instructions). The Bible is God's instruction Book to mankind teaching us how to live and to treat each other. If we neglect God's truth, then we are like an idiot headed for a waterfall without a paddle because he deliberately threw the paddles overboard. Proverb 20:24 teaches, "Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?" Apart from God's Word, there is no understanding! Proverb 28:5 declares, "Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things."

5. Article quote: "Secular humanism is a naturalistic, nonreligious worldview."

My response: I think I'll let God answer this one for Himself...

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ." -1st Corinthians s 2:14-16

Humanism is horribly evil because it DENIES God. Humanism is evil because it seeks answers WITHOUT God. Humanism is evil because it does NOT recognize the Bible as God's Word. Humanism is wicked because it promotes the acceptance of homosexuality, witchcraft, abortion, assisted suicide, and every other evil act (as long as they think no one is being hurt). I got news for you Mr. and Ms. Humanist...babies get hurt when you suck their heads off, cut them into bit sizes pieces or burn them alive in acids. Someone is definitely getting hurt. To you it's just "freedom of choice" regarding reproduction. Freedom of choice? For who? The child certainly has no choice.