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rATnA #fundie profile.myspace.com

[A continuation of the above post. Responding to, "I don't know what you're on, but being pro-choice is about supporting a person's right to make their own medical procedures. You wouldn't talk like this if the subject were a person's right to consent to open-heart surgery or taking insulin.]

I'm on the love that spun the original hydrogen carbon and nitrogen into place....

....and all i do is collect data like Edwin Hubble. I have no lofty opinions to impose on people. I don't babble in theories or messy opinions. All i do is gather data. Raw, accurrate, retestable, observable data is all that we need to know.

I dream of "hot air balloon" perspectives so that I can see past the walls that limit our perspectives.

There is no set 'yes or no' answer to anybody's definition of consent in any medical situation.

I like how you said that pro-choice and pro-abortion are not the same. I am advocating for a return to Mother Earth's crystallization-free natural order, although i don't "advocate" it for anybody but myself, and sometimes i like to let other people know what I'm doing if I think its relevant, and i let you know because maybe you care, maybe not, my guess is yes.......? Anyways can pro-choice be pro-life and pro-abortion at the same time? Yes. But also, pro-choice can be pro-life and anti-abortion at the same time too in perhaps another situation too.......so to say "I'm pro choice" is a crystallization that is fake because even though you are for the rights of the woman, perhaps in some distant situation that might change to include the rights of the natural order of Mother Earth to produce more children because contrary to most pro-choice peoples' world view, many people who come from bad, disadvantaged childhoods end up growing into the most successful adults of all because of the extra challenges, and also, one day I will open a huge school for "unwanted" children and I can almost garuantee you that after time in my school the original parents will want their kids back because i will teach them how to be highly successful by collecting/organizing/analyzing data instead of reading books about other peoples' data-collection adventures...............and how can something that mimics seretonin help the brain produce natural serotonin correctly? What happened to the Natural Order of Mother Earth? How can so many different drugs be "generally recognized as safe" and yet harm the mitochondria that power all cells?

David Crank #fundie unlessthelordmagazine.com

Birth Control in America. Birth control was first popularized in America by a few women's rights advocates in the early 1900s. Most prominent and influential was Margaret Sanger, founder of the "Birth Control Federation of America" which later became "Planned Parenthood" - a more pro-family sounding name which helped improve the acceptability of birth control. Of course Planned Parenthood was never about truly planning to be a parent - it was about planning how NOT to be a parent or to have as few children as possible.

Prior to this time, birth control was almost universally rejected by Christians in America. It was viewed as being sinful and interfering with God. Most Christians held to the same views as the great Protestant reformers (Luther, Calvin, etc.). These same views clearly dated back at least as far as the early church fathers.

But in Europe in the previous century, Malthus had argued the dangers of overpopulation. Others had joined him in concern that the lower classes were breeding too rapidly, damaging the genetic stock of their nations! Birth control was first advocated primarily for the poor, but it was the rich and the immoral who really saw its value. When Margaret Sanger began her association with these European free thinkers, much of the “right to choose” she was personally looking for was the right to choose infidelity and immorality without fear of resulting pregnancy. She made very full use of her new rights in spite of her marriage.

Are many "Pro-Life" Christians more "Pro-Choice" than they think? The "Pro-Choice" position is that every woman has the right to choose for herself whether or not to have a baby. The "Pro-Life" position is one of giving babies a chance for life outside the womb.

Though most Christians consider themselves "Pro-Life" and are clearly anti-abortion, many seem close to the "Pro-Choice" camp in what they believe and actually practice. Though generally denying a choice for an abortion, many will insist that every woman does have the right and the responsibility to choose for herself, if and when she will have a baby.

Most Christians today wholeheartedly endorse this right to choose, that is championed by the “Pro-Choice” groups. The difference is that most Christians believe the choice is already made, intentional or not, once conception has occurred. But the "Pro-Choice" groups maintain that the right to choose continues up to the point of birth. Focusing only on the woman’s rights, this seems a logical end for this viewpoint. If every woman has a fundamental right to choose whether she will have a child, what difference is there whether she prevents it's life from starting or if failing that she ends its life before it is born? Either way there is one less life and she has avoided the birth experience and any subsequent responsibility for the child. [Yes, in the one instance a life is destroyed - murdered. But from their point of view, what is the difference? In both instances the birth does not take place. They don’t see such a big difference between preventing the birth at the point of conception or doing so shortly thereafter.]

Though Christians are mostly opposed to abortion, some favor certain exceptions such as rape or incest. Others fail to realize the fact that certain forms of birth control are also producing early abortions. Increasingly Christians are becoming aware of how these forms of birth control actually work and avoiding them. But you can be very anti-abortion without being very pro-life. Few are pro-life in the sense of granting life in the first place, by encouraging as many children as God will provide or seeking to raise as many children for the Lord as possible.
Uncomfortable Similarity. Now I know some of this sounds really hard, comparing advocates of birth control with advocates of abortion. Of course there is a difference. With abortion an already living child is murdered. With birth control, the gift of life is mostly never given in the first place. The point is to get you to think about the uncomfortable similarity between the abortionists and many Christians who believe in birth control. Consider that the same people who finally convinced the churches to accept and even advocate birth control are those who also have championed abortion, immorality and a good many other things contrary to God's Word.

The Longhorn #fundie freeconservatives.com

Here are nine reasons why I hate the term "pro-choice":

1. The issue isn't about "choice", it's about abortion. Nobody seems to have a problem with the other choices.

2. If people want to legalize abortion, then why are they so afraid to be labeled with the a-word? Is there something wrong with abortion? If not, then why not proudly wear the name "pro-abortion"?

3. The truly "pro-choice" position is, "I know it's murder, but I still think others should have the right to make that choice." It's utterly indefensible to say that others should have the right to murder.

4. The pro-"choice" crowd has had a history of hiding the facts about abortion. After all, the facts might influënce a woman to choose another option.

5. The pro-"choice" crowd is only for "choice" when it comes to vices. This is the same crowd that opposes "choice", when a conservative option might be given equal time. (i.e., intelligent design, school vouchers).

6. The pro-"choice" crowd doesn't want doctors & nurses to choose not to participate in murder.

7. The pro-"choice" crowd doesn't want pharmaceutical retailers to choose not to sell RU-486.

8. Pro-"choice" means that a WOMAN can make whatever choice she wants. It doesn't mean that a boy can knock up his girlfriend, then threaten to leave her, if she doesn't do what HE wants.

9. "Pro-choice" leaves no choice for the baby.

mdancin4theLord #fundie christianforums.com

You had a picture of buttons with sayings on them......
One said........Pro-family, pro-children, pro-choice.

This is laughable. You can't be pro-choice and say that you are pro-children. The fact that you are a pro-abort...based on choice....says that you want abortion LEGAL SO THAT SOME WOMEN HAVE THE CHOICE TO KILL.

You are not pro-life...pro-children.....you are pro-abortion.

It is sad to know to think that you would be pro-abortion even until natural delivery. So so sad. You say no woman should be forced to go through a pregnancy that she does not want to continue....this would also mean you would condone a late term abortion. I mean playin devils adovacate here....you would not want to enslave someone who does not want to be pregnant...right? It would be hypocritical to say your pro-choice and deny any woman the right to kill......throughout the entire nine months.
How sad, especially because you say you are a Christian.

Would you mind showing me scripture and making Gods case for abortion.

Mark Crutcher #fundie rightwingwatch.org

Mark Crutcher, the Texas anti-abortion activist who inspired David Daleiden’s “baby parts” smear campaign against Planned Parenthood, discussed on his “Life Talk TV” program on Monday the issue of dangerous illegal abortions that that can be the result of laws banning abortion or restricting access.

The very day that an Indiana court heard an appeal in the case of Purvi Patel, a woman who faces decades in prison for what prosecutors claim was a self-induced abortion that caused her to show up at a hospital with severe blood loss, Crutcher and his colleague Renee Hobbs dismissed concerns that women without access to legal abortion will seek out dangerous alternatives, saying that if they do, it’s all the fault of pro-choicers.

“If abortion were outlawed today and next week a bunch of women died from coat hanger abortions, those coat hangers would have been in the hands of pro-choice people, not pro-life people,” Crutcher said.

He said that he used to present a bizarre argument when debating pro-choice people: “I’d say, I’ll tell you what, we can solve the coat hanger abortion thing right now and here’s how we’ll do it. I will get every pro-lifer in the country to sign an agreement that they will never do a coat hanger abortion if you will get every pro-abort in the country to say that they’ll never do coat hanger abortions.”

“The fact is,” he said, “if women wind up dying — every women that has ever died in an abortion, every woman that was ever was raped in an abortion clinic, was killed by a pro-abort or raped by a pro-abort. Why are we responsible for that?”

“So if you don’t like coat-hanger abortions, don’t do abortions,” he concluded.

servant222 #fundie foru.ms

One of the biggest problems with pro-abortionists is that they are in denial about the fact that life begins at conception. To try and counter this misconception, ask pro-choicers the following question:

Should parents have the right to abort a foetus based purely on its sex?

Most, especially strong feminists, will indignently say "of course not; that's outrageous!"

But, hey, pro-choice is pro-choice- you either support it or you don't- so if a mother decides to abort purely on the basis of gender, then what business is that of anyone else?

Another question to ask is:

Should parents have the right to discard their foetus a day before it is due to be born?

Again, the answer is usually an outrageous "Of course not!!".

And my answer is similar: abortion is not murder ONLY if you believe that life begins at birth (that is, not at conception). So whether a foetus is one second old or 9 months minus a day old isn't relevant if you believe in pro-choice.

The Chinese have it right: the birthday of a person is measured by when they were conceived, not by when they were born.

madameliberty #fundie madameliberty.tumblr.com

Regardless of what you think, abortion does not solve rape or poverty.

A poor woman getting an abortion doesn’t solve her poverty.

A woman who was raped getting an abortion doesn’t reverse her rape.

A woman in an abusive relationship getting an abortion doesn’t change her abuse, and in fact, it may help perpetuate it.

A woman getting an abortion because the child may be disabled doesn’t change stigma against the disabled or work towards bettering the lives of the disabled.

Abortion is not a solution to these problems, so stop pretending you care about poor women or sexually assaulted women by convincing them to get abortions. How is it “pro-choice” when a woman is financially unstable and must kill her own child? How is it “pro-choice” when a woman is raped and no one will emotionally support her? How is it “pro-choice” when a woman is abused and can’t choose to give birth to her baby? Where were her choices?

Nowhere, because abortion doesn’t solve these issues so STOP PRETENDING IT DOES. Abortion is wrong in its nature, of course; it also doesn’t even help the problems it claims to solve. So stop touting that it’s “for the poor! the underprivileged! the abused! the raped!” Because its not. If you result supported choice, you’d do everything in your power to help these women give birth to their babies instead of telling them abortion is their only choice. Because that isn’t pro-choice at all.

#abortion #politics

Nathan Sheets #fundie community.livejournal.com

Don't Want to Die from a Coat Hanger Abortion? Don't Have One!

Pro-choicers think that it is somehow a kind of threat when they declare that, should abortion be made illegal, they will all go out and kill themselves by getting coat hanger abortions. I don’t know about any of you, but this actually encourages me to continue to fight for criminalized abortion.

The pro-choicers treat the fictional 14 year-old girls who supposedly died pre-Roe as if they are wonderful women who were martyred for a noble cause. Besides being unable to provide even one documented evidence of the—what are we at now?—“hundreds of thousands” of women who died every year from coat hanger abortions, pro-choicers consistently ignore the fact that such women were trying to kill their children.

We are expected to act and react to these hypothetical women in the same way we would react should the Pope walk into the room. If they weren’t dead, we would embrace them, thank them for their great service to the world and ask them if they would like to be taken out to lunch.

Pro-lifers who dare to call such women baby killers, murderers, delusional, insane, troubled, pressured, weak or anything other than “amazing women” are quickly called—by pro-choicers and some pro-lifers alike—anti-women and insensitive. Even many pro-lifers have fallen for the coat hanger myth, because, really, who didn’t have a great aunt who died from a coat hanger abortion?

HM3 Ratigan USN 1987-1993, Once a Doc Always a DOC #fundie forum.myspace.com

The simple fact that the Pro-choice side is in support of killing innocent unborn children pretty much sums it up. My little bit will do nothing to wipe the tar from the walls of the Abortion/pro-choice movement. My simple acknowledgment of a simple mistake I made will do nothing to legitimize the pro-choice movement. The pro-choice movement was founded on lies from the very beginning. By the admission of one of it's very founding members the abortion movement has been built on a foundation of lies from their deliberate inflation of numbers of illegal abortions to the consistant bagering of the Catholic Church, to their outright lies about the so-called poles they suposedly took and sold to the press. And yes if the pro-choice movement had its way it would have simple picketting declared as a crime. The one truth that really needs to stand out is this simple one. Abortion is the killing of an innocent unborn child. That is what needs to be acknowledged! That is what the world needs to hear from the Pro-choice movement. I will not apologies for trying to save lives nor will I acknowledge anything for you. You claim you are sick of the false accusations and dedeitful language. Well I have news for you. THE ENTIRE PRO-LIFE MOVEMENT IS SICK OF THE ENTIRE ABORTION/PRO-CHOICE MOVEMENT THINKING IT IS RIGHT AND GOOD AND AMERICAN TO TAKE THE LIFE OF AN INNOCENT UNBORN CHILD. WE WILL NO LONGER COMPROMISE NOR WILL WE APOLOGIES. WE ARE PRO-LIFE AND WE ARE HERE TO STAY!

N/A #fundie abortionwiki.org


How YOU Can Help Expose the Abortion Industry
Posted on March 17, 2013

Calling all sidewalk counselors & abortion clinic protesters…

AbortionWiki exists to expose the abortion industry. We know that most of those who profit from abortion are not anxious for their involvement to be made public. So that’s exactly what we’re doing. We’re building a huge online, publicly accessible database, covering all aspects of the abortion industry and abortion lobby.

We’re raising the stakes.A large percentage of those in the industry are not involved because they are hardcore abortion supporters. It’s just a job that lets them put food on the table. These workers are the ones who are most likely to leave the industry when they realize that they are being held accountable for their involvement in the killing of preborn children.

And we’re making it less desirable for new workers to enter the abortion industry.

This is where YOU come in.

We need sidewalk counselors and abortion clinic protestors all around the World to send us information. This information will then be uploaded to the database. Here are some examples of information you can submit:

Names of abortion clinic workers
Photos of abortionists and clinic workers
Photos of businesses (i.e. medical waste, electricians) that do work for abortion clinics
Evidence of local businesses that support abortion clinics or pro-abortion groups
Information on local pro-abortion groups
Documentation of emergencies at abortion clinics

Submit information via email: info@abortionwiki.org

If you would like further information, please either email us or phone: 815-277-6244

I am Victory67 #fundie unbelief.org

Pro-life: Do not believe in choice-abortion
Pro-Choice: Believes that choice-abortion should be one of the first choices when and if the woman has a choice. That to have a baby is not the best (Planned Parenthood) choice, but should be able to abort and kill the kid, so that the family can have more money, etc.

Mike #fundie christiandiscussionforums.org

Pro-lifers will win. I'm convinced of it. As long as we hold to our values against the world’s dehumanizing trends we will counter this darkening culture with light and eventually prevail.

Here are a few reasons for my hope:

1) Pro-aborts can't call themselves what they are. They call themselves pro-choice. It's a not-so-subtle nomenclature shift meant to appeal to freedom-loving Americans. But in the end, I believe, if your rallying cry is a lie your supporters are going to figure it out after a while. They're not pro-choice. They're pro-abortion. But they can't admit to that. If you have to lie about what you're for, you're going to lose...eventually.

2) Improvements in science continues to enhance our knowledge of what's going on in the womb, putting pro-aborts on the side of being "anti-science." When Roe first became the law of the land pro-aborts argued that the baby wasn't a baby at all but just a clump of cells. Most people know that's not true anymore. People have seen 3-D Ultrasounds. People have seen the photo of the baby reaching out during an in-utero surgery. The numbers of the ignorant are dwindling and that aids our cause.

3) There are no great pro-choice speeches and there never will be any. You can't move people by speaking eloquently of the right to have consequence-less sex with someone you don't love. Think back - how many great speeches in the American pantheon have there been which include the words "rape and incest." I'm thinking it's a pretty low number. "Give me freedom or give me rape and incest" just doesn't work right. Even the great orator of our time Barack Obama could only come up with, "I don't want them punished with a baby" in support of abortion. Pro-lifers on the other hand speak about those things which move us -life, rights and God. In the end, our superior speechifying will win out.

4) We pro-lifers have more babies. It's simple. Those that don't believe in killing babies in the womb typically end up having more babies. Pro-lifers are more...prolific. Go to church some Sunday and you'll hear a chorus of babies attempting to drown out the sermon. You don't bring babies to a NARAL meeting. It's considered rude. In the end, demographics win.

I truly believe we'll win. We have to. We must. And we must never accept that some must die for convenience or that some must be selected to die for the greater good of society. And we must not accept that killing someone is a mercy to them because their life would be difficult due to illness. Until every life is legally esteemed as sacred we should never rest and never give up.

As an example of the shifting tide, ABC News (7/29) covered a heartwarming story of two unborn babies with a terrible problem. The twins were diagnosed with "Twin-to-Twin Transfusion Syndrome," a deadly complication that would likely kill both unborn children. The children were saved by a remarkable in utero surgery.

Almost as remarkable as the surgery, however, is the the fact the ABC decided to do a story which so clearly illustrates the humanity of the unborn. Add to that, this introduction by Charlie Gibson.

We have “Closer Look,” tonight, at some of the most awe-inspiring surgery that modern medicine has to offer. It is not an operation performed on a heart or a brain, as delicate as those procedures might be. This surgery is done on the tiniest, most fragile of patients imaginable. Babies yet to be born. ABC’s John McKenzie on a rare procedure done inside the womb. Not just on one fetus, but two.
Were that not enough, the piece included this exchange between John McKenzie and Dr. Kenneth Moise of the Texas Children's Hospital.

MCKENZIE: Using a kind of miniature telescope, doctors enter Kim’s amniotic sack. And there they are, the boys. Their perfectly formed feet and hands.

MOISE: You can see them moving sometimes they’ll reach up and grab the scope.

MCKENZIE: The fetus will grab the scope?

MOISE We’ve had it actually pull on the scope.
As we remember from the famous Michael Clancy photo, nothing illustrates the humanity of the unborn better than their little hands grasping just as newborns do.

TonyD95B #fundie moonbattery.com

Despite all the Liberal talk about "meaningful debate", "tolerance", "respect", etc, the "Pro Choice" crowd is fundamentally dishonest.

If you cannot respect and accept as valid the simple idea that killing an unborn human being is wrong, you have to be dishonest....or in very deep denial.....or you are hiding another agenda.

If you doubt what I'm saying, just take a look at Planned Parenthood founder Margaret Sanger.

"Pro-Choice" is a polite euphemism for Pro-Abortion, and this movement is built on a foundation of racism and eugenics.

This is not my opinion, or a "Pro-Life Right Wing Talking Point" - it is historical FACT.

Also, if you doubt the sincerity of the "Pro-Choicers", just look at Sarah Palin. Governor Palin should be a feminist poster girl, but she "ecercised her right to choose" - and comitted the unforgiveable Pseudoprogressive Neofascist Feminist sin of making the "wrong" choice.

Bottom line is, the Pro Abortion Movement and the media that enable them are at best a bunch of lying b#stards - and at worst are more evil than even most of thier rank and file supporters know.

Anonymous #fundie prochoice-or-gtfo.tumblr.com

What I don't think you understand is that non-gun-owning, non-picketing pro-lifers are afraid of pro-choice violence just as you are afraid of pro-life violence. You think I'm a cruel, violent terrorist because I want to sit down with women in crisis pregnancy and talk to them kindly about their options. I'm afraid to admit I'm pro-life around people who I know are pro-choice, because judging from the threats pro-choicers make online, I never know who might retaliate violently.

cultureshift #fundie cultureshift.tumblr.com

["Thoughts on pro choicers who become midwives/OBs? Do you think that they can do the job as well as someone who actually values the baby's life?"]

Consider this: would you want someone to babysit your toddler who had killed thousands of other toddlers and planned to kill thousands more in the years to come? For the same reason, I would never want a pro-choice OB/GYN to touch my unborn child. If you are pregnant and Pro-Life, you should never go near a pro-choice OB/GYN.

["What if the pro choice OB or midwife doesn't perform abortions? Are they still trustworthy to deliver babies?"]

Knowing that they believe that an unborn child should be killed ‘on demand and without apology’, how can you know that they would do everything possible to save an unborn child’s life if everything possible needed to be done? How do you know that they wouldn’t simply tell the mother of that child that she should abort because it’s the easier and less expensive option?

You can’t know. That’s why I would never let a pro-choice OB/GYN near my unborn child. Never.

arizonaconservativegal #fundie arizonaconservativegal.tumblr.com

how choice-splaining works

pro-life woman: when i had a high risk pregnancy that could have killed me, no one was supportive of my refusal to abort and my doctors were cold to me

pro-life woman: i got pregnant in high school, and every one treated me like a dropout even though i worked hard to graduate

pro-life woman: no one told me about where i could get access to baby supplies, only where the closest PP was

pro-life woman: my doctor pressured me to abort when my unborn child was diagnosed with DS and i had a hard time finding a supportive OB/GYN

pro-life woman: i had to fight for my Title IX rights when i had a baby and my professor wouldn't let me redo a test i missed due to labor

pro-life woman: i really think abortion has negatively affected women's welfare for these reasons

pro-choicer: ummm actually, abortion has nothing to do with those things and pro-choicers care about other stuff besides abortion too????? so shut up :)

John Coffey #fundie topix.com

I don't care what the "situation" is as you call it. Murder is murder. Plain and simple. Lets get real honest here. The term "pro-choice" is just candy coating abortion. Those that say abortion is ok are not "pro-choice" because the baby has "no-choice". Lets call it what it is. "Pro-death".

Time stands still now #fundie timestandsstillnow.tumblr.com

(However, I didn’t see anything about pro-choice harrassment in the article? If I missed it or if it’s present in another article, I’d love to see the link to it so I could read it.

While this woman, unfortunately, didn’t make the decision best for her, the option should still be open to other people. There are people that get abortions and are happy with the results, and I don’t think that should be taken away from them. People regret tattoos, piercings, etc., but those options are still, rightfully, available. There are also people who regret having children, and that option is neccessary for people to have as well.)

I read about this today. Such a tragedy. I pray that women who feel the same guilt seek help so that they may find healing and life after the death of their children.

I don’t think you understood when you asked about pro-choice harassment. It’s the pro-choice mindset that dehumanizes unborn children and convinces women that abortion is a viable option which persuades women like Jade to have abortions. When she realized what she had done, she felt an overwhelming guilt.

Tattoos and piercings are not immoral. They don’t stop beating hearts. They don’t destroy life. These are not good analogies. Abortion is simply a bad option, period, for the women it harms and the children it erases.

BenMcLean #sexist #fundie reddit.com

No, we do not hate women, but we do hate feminists.

"Nobody ever, ever, ever has any right to the use of my body without my permission."

Why?

"Because congratulations, you've just argued yourself into forced organ donation for MEN"

This seems to be assuming a radical egalitarianism which I don't think you will find is a common premise.

"Because nothing you've said actually decreases abortion rates."

Our goal isn't to decrease abortion rates. Our goal is to end the abortion holocaust.

Just as the anti-slavery movement didn't set better treatment for slaves or any temporary short term decrease in the slavery rate as one of it's goals, the anti-abortion movement does not have a temporary short term decrease in the abortion rate as one of it's goals. That sort of goal only serves to prolong the root problem.

"One out of three women in America has had an abortion--and those numbers only increase in forced-birther dominated areas."

Which areas would those be?

"A pro-choice position"

You're not pro-choice.

"Know how else I know everything you've said here is a complete logical fallacy? Because I'm in my mid-40s and was a fundamentalist Christian back in the 1980s. You're recycling arguments that forced-birthers used back then, and it was those arguments that chased me right out of the movement--and right out of the religion too! Shocking, how similar the arguments are, the ones used by both religious fanatics and forced-birthers. That's why I just sigh and shake my head when you try to bring up atheist forced-birthers. I've talked to them, and they are using the same arguments religious people use--and to the same idiotic end. They don't even realize that they're playing into the movement's agenda of re-Christianizing America."

Apparently, you need to read up on how logical fallacies work. You wouldn't have shown any logical fallacy to be occurring even if every single thing you said here was absolutely true.

"Oh, did I surprise you?"

Only with how little you understand how arguments work.

"The history of abortion in America is a sickeningly dystopian one; it's always been a dogwhistle used by religious nuts to restrict women's rights..."

I can simply respond that "women's rights" has always been a dogwhistle used by anti-religious nuts to murder babies.

"...and signal virtue--in this case against what they view as immorality."[i/]

Right because virtue signaling and decrying what you view as immorality is something you'd neeeeever do.

"You know what forced-birthers call feminism? "The curse of independence.""

You know what I call feminism? Brain cancer.

"That's why the forced-birther position concentrates not on lowering abortion rates, but upon making abortion brutally difficult to acquire.

Assuming you mean the Pro-Life movement, the reason we focus on making abortion brutally difficult to acquire is because the electoral and amendment processes have been circumvented by judicial fiat, (in Roe v. Wade) which ultimately destroys the respectability of the law. So we're going around the law. Rather than banning abortion outright, we'll levy a local abortion tax so that each one costs a trillion dollars, or drive every baby murder mill out of business with frivolous lawsuits or try any other dirty trick which has the same effect. Why should we respect pro-abortion laws when you don't respect anti-abortion laws?

"That's why they also don't worry much about the "precious babies" once they're born, and why they don't endorse social safety nets for the poor women who are plunged into worse poverty after an unwanted pregnancy."

That is untrue of the Pro-Life movement and it's supporters.

"This is my body. I own it."

No you don't. God does.

"And that, too, is something I'm not going to discuss with you. Resolve that on your own time. I'm not set up to fix that level of broken."

You can't actually address a point of view which significantly differs from yours?

If so, then shut up and get back in the kitchen, bitch.

Aaron Kaylor #fundie city-data.com

Separate entity from mother. All its chromosomes intact. Grows on its own. It is a child from conception.

There is no such thing as the "anti-choice" movement. Such a name would apply to pro-life if it didn't have anything to do with human right's. The pro-life movement is a pro-human right's movement.

Terms that can be applied. Pro-murderer. Pro-psycho. Pro-infanticide supporter. Anti-compassioners. Pro-okay with making the 'choice' to murder. Pro-deathers. Pro-sick in the head.

You and I don't have the right to murder human beings, therefore that option SHOULD be removed from the table as a "choice." Pro-choice as defined by the pro-abortion movement is an abomination to human rights.

Steven Ertelt #fundie lifenews.com

For years the "pro-choice" mantra has gone something like this: abortion should be between a woman and her doctor, we can't tell women what to do with their bodies, women have a right to choose, etc. Yet, a recent forced abortion incident in China proves so-called "pro-choice" advocates are nothing more than pro-abortion

Theodore Shulman #fundie politicsdaily.com

The FBI in New York has reportedly arrested Theodore Shulman, a radical abortion rights campaigner with a long history of threatening pro-life activists, and charged him with making interstate threats against two abortion opponents who were not identified.

The 49-year-old Shulman was arrested on Thursday and was being held without bond at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in New York City, according to pro-life activists who were alerted to Shulman's incarceration by federal investigators. An officer at the correctional center referred a calls about inmates to the public relations office, which is closed over the weekend.

"This is a huge relief to us that Ted Shulman is behind bars where he belongs," Cheryl Sullenger of Operation Rescue, a prominent anti-abortion organization, said in a story on the group's website. "He often posted threatening comments to our website and called me on my cell phone too many times to count."
[...]
"He was always brazen in his threats and openly identified himself, telling us not to bother calling the FBI because they would never do anything for us," Sullenger said. "Thankfully, he was wrong about that."
[...]
For whatever reasons, Theodore Shulman -- who goes by Ted -- seemed to fixate on the issue of abortion rights and defined his activism by fierce and often extreme verbal attacks on pro-lifers that often threatened them with a violent end. He liked to allude to himself as the "first pro-choice terrorist" and started a blog called "Operation Counterstrike."

His mission statement says: "Right-to-lifism is murder, and ALL right-to-lifers are bloody-handed accessories. Swear it, believe it, proclaim it, and act on it."
[...]
It's not clear what Shulman may have done to push his actions and rhetoric across the line to alleged criminality. In its website report about Shulman's arrest Operation Rescue includes an audio recording of a threat to Cheryl Sullenger that the group says Shulman left on the group's voicemail:

"Hi Cheryl, I'm calling you to say you need to convert to pro-choice because your Maker is going to send an angel to gather you in very soon, and if you haven't converted to pro-choice by the time you get OFFED you will go to hell and burn!" the message says. "So quick, quick, quick -- convert to pro-choice during the few months you have left on this earth. Do it now!"

"Filthy Gorgeous" #fundie mydeathspace.com

So when you have sex, babies happen and they will always happen until the end of time. So unless you want a baby, you shouldn't have sex. I've never found killing them the reasonable or responsible alternative, and you can say all day that abortion isn't killing. Pro-choicers use that to justify abortion all day long, but the fact is most pro-choicers would drop dead if they had a pregnant dog and you walked over and kicked it in the stomach, resulting in the death of its unborn puppies.

Conservapedia #fundie conservapedia.com

[Conservapedia's examples of anti-Christian/anti-American "Secularized Language", excerpts of some of the stupidest ones; supposed originals on left, "secularized" ones on the right.]

Godspeed | Be good
All Hallow's Eve | Halloween
Resurrection Sunday | Easter
Thanksgiving | Turkey Day
God bless you, Bless you | Gesundheit
Jesus! | Gee whiz!
Abomination | Mistake
Abortion | Birth control
Anti-Christian bigotry | Separation of church and state
Anti-life | Pro-choice
Founders | Dead White Men
Heathen | Multicultural
Heavenly | Beautiful
Heresy | Scientific theory
Mankind | Humankind
Possessed | Crazy
Pro-abortion | Pro-choice
Sex before marriage | Liberated
Sin | Crime
Soul | Spirit
With child | Pregnant
Christian Name | Given Name

HM3 Ratigan USN 1987-1993, Once a Doc Always a DOC #fundie forum.myspace.com

And all I ever hear from the Pro-choice zealots is WE ARE NOT FOR ABORTION!!!!! That is so untrue! When it is so obvious that one of the CHOICES!!!! is abortion. So how can you not support abortion when one of the choices is abortion? The unborn child! Keep your laws off the unborn children!!! All we here is the pro-choicers ranting about their rights! What about the Unborn Children's rights!!!

WorldGoneCrazy-NotMurderedYet #fundie disqus.com

I had the "pleasure" of witnessing a coercion for abortion today.
A young woman was discussing her options with her "man," and I waved them over to talk to me. The woman smiled and seemed relieved to have someone with other options to talk to. As she made her way towards me, two deathscorts intercepted her and blocked me with their umbrellas. Another "man" got out of a separate car, and the four disgusting pro-aborts escorted her into the abortuary, head down.
A few minutes later, she came back out to talk to her "man," whereby the four lovers of baby-killing again surrounded her and "escorted" her back in. Nobody physically forced her or put their hands on her - they just guided her in and "discouraged" her from coming over to hear her other options. For that reason, I could not call the police.
No matter what any pro-abort says, there is no such thing as a "pro-choicer." If you support abortion "rights," you necessarily support this kind of coercion, because you support the CHOICE of what the deathscorts and bro choicers did - all perfectly legal.
And THAT is just one more reason (among thousands) for the incredible depravity of pro-aborts.

catholicwifeandmom #fundie christiandiscussionforums.org

The first thing to keep in mind is that pro-lifers don’t do abortions. If abortion were outlawed today and illegal abortionists started springing up next week, every one of them would be someone who is pro-choice. In fact, every woman who was ever killed or maimed during an abortion – whether it was legal or illegal – was killed or maimed by someone who was pro-choice. In other words, when the abortion lobby says, “If abortion is made illegal, women will die,” what they’re actually saying is, “If you stop us from killing babies, we’re going to start killing women.”

[emphasis original]

inkbleedingdreams #fundie inkbleedingdreams.tumblr.com

I’m going to be totally honest. I’m pro-life, from the moment of conception, in every scenario.
1. If you’re raped, that’s terrible. However, that baby you’re carrying didn’t rape you and rape does not justify murder. Also, I think pro-choicers understand how few abortions are in rape cases.
2. If you can’t handle even carrying a baby to term and delivering it, DON’T HAVE SEX. IT’S NOT NECESSARY TO YOUR LIFE, I PROMISE.
3. I understand that even if abortion was illegal, woman would still try to have them. I understand that it’s more dangerous that way. Quite frankly, if you ruin your health or get yourself hurt or killed trying to kill your own child, I really have no sympathy for you. I don’t for any other type or murderer who dies in the process.

Like, I know this is harsh, but I am so ridiculously sick of only seeing pro-choice crap on my dash. Abortion ends a life. There can be no denying that.

Propaganda #fundie forum.myspace.com

(That site lists a man killing his pregnant girlfriend as 'pro-abortion violence.' There's nothing pro-choice about that - that's just your standard violent, controlling misogyny)

sure there is.. man decides to kill someone else.. PRO CHOICE!

woman decides to kill someone else.. PRO CHOICE!

same thing.. same cycle of abuse.. being 1 preys on weaker being 2... then, being 2 preys on weaker being 3

cyclical trauma of which abortion is a symptom... a part.. not the cause (timmeh)

rAtnA's #fundie profile.myspace.com

[I received these as private messages, so I can't link to the post. Link goes to the guy's profile.]

Its not really about pro choice or pro life because those are styles and a style is a crystallization and crystallization is a cessation of growth and prosperity.

Styles and crystallizations are anti-reality because reality is never static, not even in space.

Even your favorite book is on fire right now, its just burning at a rate that is too slow to produce visual flames, but 55 years from now the book will appear brown and singed----almost as if by flame----say cheese, you get the picture.

Many different interactive, active elements combine to form the situations around abortions, so to see the picture clearly we must remove ourselves from our limited, narrow initial perspectives and catch a hot-air balloon to the bigger picture...........otherwise you can separate, isolate, limit, control, and be a lonely skittle.

[I'm sorry, what does natural oxidation have to do with women's political rights again?]

Oxidation = natural death = Mother Earth Progression.

death = man-made fire = abortion/war = Mother Earth Regression.

Combustion is the number one source of smog, regression, abortion, unnatural death.

Sometimes people need to remind me that I live in the otherworld and sometimes people have no idea how i got where i am and in that case whatever i say makes no sense, so i apologize, and i might as well apologize again because this all probly makes no sense either but in light of my path it makes perfect sense.

*****All I'm really trying to say is that to declare oneself pro life or pro choice is a style and a crystallization and a stagnation of growth which promotes an unatural Mother Earth death like a man made fire that will take your book from you in 100 seconds instead of 100 decades. We need stories not slogans. I am from: the future but i live in the present, you see, that cannot be true, we can only live in the present, and thus we can only be pro-life or pro-choice in the immediate situation of life and death, and at no other time is it accurate to be pro choice or life.

Tear down the walls that define your perspectives and float up in a hot air balloon to my perspective where we can see immediate time exist on our blue and white planet and see time not exist in our eternal space where there is no time except the time of creation. Creation via big bang or by God or by both or by none, at most all we can have is a time of creation, and perhaps a time of end, but there are no other times that exist in space except for the time on blue and white planet. There is only one planet. The other planets are just random balls of dust and ice space matter that just happen to orbit the sun as well even though thousands of lifeless balls of space matter orbit the sun too for the simple reason that the sun creates a gravitation pathway for the other balls of dust, if there was only one planet there would be need for grouping other lifeless balls of dust/ice/spacematter ambiguously into the precise atmosphere of Earth.

Abolish Human Abortion #fundie facebook.com

image

We are not the bigots or extremists.

Our opponents, the anti-abolitionists in the pro-life movement and the pro-aborts in the pro-choice movement are the true bigots and extremists!

They are bigots because they think that the younger you are, the more disposable you are, and they are extremists in that they believe an innocent child can be punished to death for the crimes of their father.

Abolitionists are rising up all over the country crying NO MORE COMPROMISE WITH CHILD SACRIFICE!

Are you among them? Against them? Waiting to choose a side?

The Time for True Justice is Now!

Anonymous and aubscares #fundie aubscares.tumblr.com

Anonymous: you never hear of pro choicers helping any women who were forced to abort by abusive boyfriends or by family. They never offer sympathy to women who (luckily this is EXTREMELY rare) were forced to abort or else they'd die. They only gloat because "YAH WE NEED DAT FOR ABORTION RIGHTS!"

aubscares: Very VERY true. I’ve actually never even thought of that. They’re all about “choices” but many young girls are pressured into an abortion by their boyfriend/parents. But of course pro-choicers suddenly don’t care about “choice” in those situations at all.

Wilson #fundie patheos.com

[on a blog post of a pro-lifer who turned pro-choice]
Being evil is easier than being principled, so your story of courage is really the opposite. I’ll agree that birth control should be supported by people who are pro-life, but unfortunately the only people who subscribe to any morality in this country are strict Christians, some of whom mistakenly want to legislate morality. But why isn’t there a pro-choice faction that supports BC, but wants to limit abortion? Because they have taken their pro-choicisim to such a level that they are in fact anti-life. Now being pro-BC doesn’t mean you have to be pro-free-BC, that is stepping things up to pro-socialism. You think you were being “duped” before, but you still are being duped, just to an atheistic anti-human doctrine.

jrestrepo #fundie freerepublic.com

A gay man has the right to marry either a straight/gay woman any time he wants just as gay woman can marry gay/straight man anytime she wants. THAT is equal protection under the law. Being able to marry a “house cat” is a new thing, just as man/man or woman/woman marriage is a new thing. That is the argument. Additionally, if gay marriage is OK, so is plural marriages of any configuration. Legally 10 people could all be married. That is equal protection under the law. Libs providing anecdotal information about a gay couple here or there that has been together for 20 years, etc. is useless. Study after study confirms that man/man relationships are extremely transient.

The issue is that libs continually try to change language to suit their goals. Just like the whole “pro-choice” thing. It isn’t pro- or anti-choice it is pro- or anti-abortion. If you change the language then you deceive people. Marriage has been between males and females for the entire definition of the word. “Health care reform” is another example of that. In all reality, that monster was closer to “insurance reform” but “health care reform” plays better.

Words matter and so do their definitions.

Jackie Alnor #fundie scatteredsheepreport.blogspot.com

Planned Parenthood Shooter: Madman or Hero?

The recent shooting at a Planned Parenthood facility in Colorado Springs that left three people dead, including a pro-life police officer, stunned everyone - pro-choicers and pro-lifers alike. People from both sides of the political issue have labeled Robert Lewis Dear a madman or an insane maniac. But is he really?

If his motive was to put a stop to the killing of unborn babies, as the media is suggesting since he allegedly proclaimed, "no more baby parts" while being arrested, then is that not a heroic act?

If staff in a Daycare facility were hacking up toddlers, would we label anyone a "madman" for running in guns blazing to prevent another toddler from being slaughtered? Of course not! He would be a hero and be rewarded with some sort of medal of honor.

Liberals are saying the shooting was politically motivated, some blaming Republicans and conservatives. But it sounds more emotionally motivated. If a person truly believes that these dismembered fetal body parts we're all seeing photos of is of human babies - this would be a very normal response.

Thanks to social media, the secret slaughter of the innocents is coming out of the closet. Can a person with a conscience look upon bloody photos of baby parts - disembodied heads, legs, arms, torsos - and turn a blind eye to it?

The pro-life lobby rightfully argues that life begins at conception. And the pro-choice activists say that life begins at birth and as long as a fetus is killed while still in the womb, no harm done. Yet there are many reports of aborted babies coming out alive and being finished off by the attending staff.

So is it unreasonable for someone to take the defense of the unborn to its logical conclusion? Is murder going on in those buildings every day? Are the lives of unborn babies just as human as the lives of 3-year-old toddlers? Is it rational to defend the lives of innocent babies?

If the answer is 'yes,' then who's crazy now? It is sheer hypocrisy that unborn babies are just as human as you or I, if you are not willing to back that up with action.

Naomi Elizabeth Dooner #fundie naomielizabeth96.tumblr.com

(Single mother haunted by abortion hanged herself to Ed Sheeran song)

Pro-choice groups are the ones who trickd her into it, Convincing her that her baby wasn’t a ‘real person’, and that she was empowering herself. while pro-life groups were the ones presenting alternatives and offering post-abortion counseling which could’ve saved her

So, pro-choicers, this is what your movement has resulted in. Hope you’re proud of your work.

Mr. Coulter #fundie godorscience.com

[responding to a poster who claims that pro-choice people are misled]

Yeah, and an abortion is a 'simple procedure'. The difference between me and you Buck, is that I dont cuddle overt sin or sinners. Your Bible passages are used to make yourself feel vindicated for not standing up to evil. I cant resist, Paul and the vipers was an episode where Paul is suffering persecution. He wasnt turning a blind eye on evil because it has free will. Only when you are seeking approval do you babble righteousness. Give me 'the what for' in name calling, while calling me names. How is someone forced into an abortion? You are giving excuses. Which is what I called out. Pro-choice also means 'absent of consequense' and you affirm that with your foolish 'forced into it' reason.

"Not everyone who is pro-abortion/pro-choice is evil", is about the most asinine statement made by you yet. I cant think of a better measuring stick in determining evil than how one will treat the "most defenseless of us". "Mis-led?" another excuse, typical.


The castration of women offends you like the explaination of homo sex offends you. If the concern of being barefoot and pregnant is so horrific, hell, just remove your ovaries. That is how we prevent dogs from getting pregnant, and they survive just fine. That is not a complicated procedure, and both sides of the issue would be solved. Confused, we will play with your 'pretend faith' on another day.

I was reading on the AIDS in Africa. Your exposed breast culture statement seems to be the very thing exploited, thus making AIDS the epidemic it is there. It seems there is a 1 in 3 chance that a baby can contract AIDS through breast milk. So, encouraging breast feeding will only insure that babies will contract AIDS over there. The 'education' in caring for children is taught by teaching mother's proper breast feeding principles. Seeing that the breast is always exposed insures that the baby can go to the 'AIDS well' without hinderance.

MaryAnn #fundie youthdefence.ie

I am a young, independent woman. I can vote, go to college, drive a car, even run for President if I want (once I’m over 35)! I can do anything that my male colleagues can do. But there is one thing that I can become that’s denied to my male friends…a mother. Motherhood is the most amazing thing that a woman can do in this world. Just think about it: we can nurture and protect another human life. Every single person in the world had a mother; we all spent nine months in the comfort and safety of our mothers’ womb.

So you can see why I am disgusted when I hear of abortion being propagated as a’ woman’s right’. Abortion is an unnatural act; it goes against every protective instinct a mother has towards her child. Abortion is also the most horrendous violence that can ever be perpetrated on a woman. If you described the methods to a person who had never heard of abortion before – who hadn’t been fooled by all the pro-abortion propaganda and brainwashing -, they would think that abortion was some kind of primeval torture. Imagine, having your own child violently torn apart and sucked out of your womb, or feeling your child struggling and kicking as he or she is poisoned and burned and then delivering the dead, scalded little body. Imagine having your own child, while still alive, dismembered limb by limb inside your womb, your child’s spine cracked and skull crushed in order to remove them, and then a nurse putting each piece of the body back together on a counter to make sure no part of your child is left inside of you. It’s hardly surprising that all the evidence shows abortion is hurting women so badly, as well as killing their babies.
Think about it: if newborn infants were being tortured with brutal punishments such as these, there would be uproar!
But the abortion industry is a multi-million dollar one, and, right from the beginning, they had a pretty good marketing idea: to sell abortion by convincing women that they were simply making a choice, and that abortion gives them freedom. It was a good tactic…but they haven’t fooled me or millions of other women around the world.
Women will never truly have equal rights to men in a world where abortion exists. Abortion is often used to cover up cases of abuse and under-age prostitution. Live Action in the US has uncovered cases of abortion clinic workers in Planned Parenthood helping pimps to cover up the abuse of underage sex slaves. Girls as young as thirteen and fourteen years old are being exploited, and abortion clinic workers are only too happy to “rearrange” the paperwork to make it all look “legit” and help the pimp to run his business.
And let’s not forget that half of all aborted children are female. In fact, in countries such as China and India, where male children are preferred to females, this figure is much higher. This practice of sex-selection abortion is now so pervasive that it has been described as gendercide by the The Economist (which is a self proclaimed supporter of abortion), while the research of one award-winning author, Mara Hvistendahl, showed that 163 million girls are missing from the world. So much for women’s rights.
A few weeks ago Bryan Kemper, an American pro-life leader, said that “Abortion enslaves women to a world where men can dominate and control them so the men can be free.” I couldn’t agree more. Countless women have been made to think that they have no other option but abortion; that they are not capable of being good mothers. They have been coerced by cowardly, weak men, who want to avoid stepping up to their responsibilities and make women think that this “is the best choice”. Abortion is never a “choice”. It is an invasive, destructive, violent and agonising act against womanhood.
Women are designed to become mothers, the womb is meant to be a safe haven for us in the earliest stages of our life, but it is sadly becoming one of the most dangerous places in the world to live. I am a twenty-first century woman who enjoys all the rights and responsibilities that men enjoy. I am happy to say that I am equal to any man in this country, because, according to the UN, Ireland without abortion is the safest country in the world to become a mother. A woman becomes a mother the moment she conceives a child. We need to celebrate motherhood. Every child and every mother is a gift. Women who are frightened and anxious need our love and support. Every woman needs know that she is a life giver, that she can nurture and love her child, that she is doing the most important job in the world. I will continue to stand for every woman, every mother and every child. We must unite against this barbaric and archaic practice. We can eliminate the crisis, not the child.

Steve Bates #fundie books.google.com

ABORTION IS MURDER MADE LEGAL
Legalizing the killing of the innocent unborn in the womb is no less heinous a crime than if it was made legal outside the womb. Inside the womb, it is called abortion. Outside the womb, it is called murder. One is punishable. The other is excused.
GOD JUDGES BOTH MURDER.
The Bible teaches unborn life is a wonder work of God. and the unborn are accounted human, as a person named in God's census record. Earth time is for personal growth after birth. No one grows up in eternity. No one grows old. Every person is mature. There are no Pamper stations heaven.

The patriarch Job. after his trials (the destruction of his goods and the death of his children) had his possessions restored double. God gave Job double the lost animals and twofold his original wealth. Job. however, was given the same number of children. His family had doubled. Job had ten children on earth in time and ten children in heaven in eternity (Job 1:2; 42:12-13 KJV).

THE ABORTED CHILD A CITIZEN IN ETERNITY

God has named the unborn child. The plan of God for the aborted child has not been thwarted. In eternity, the mother
will meet God and she will meet her aborted child. The baby will have become a mature adult.

Every mother having undergone an abortion is even now loved and wanted by God in God's family more than the mother wanted and loved the child she aborted. God loves you and your Child. Jesus died to save both.

ADOPTION SURPASSES ABORTION

No child is an unwanted child. Pro-choice makes children perishable. Jesus alone was born to die. He was birthed. He died at the hands of men. No child should die at man's hand by abortion. Exercise you fingers, walking the Yellow Pages under adoption services, and your child can walk the pathways of life.

MURDER FOR HIRE

Abortion is a business; murder for profit . . . profiting at the expense of dying children. The death-dealing abortionist can and does command more money for killing healthy children in the womb than curing sick children to live in the world.
Abortion mills . . . America's death camps ... are a shameful blight upon the nation. They clutter every state in the country.

Politicians, preachers, and spokespersons advocating abortions are themselves beneficiaries of a right-to-life choice. Pro-abortionist can advocate abortions because their mothers were anti-abortion.

Abortion is a heathen practice, and man is never at liberty or given license by God under any condition to kill the innocent child. On April 22, 1973, the United States Supreme Court sanctioned murder. God's law is no longer the law of the land. America cannot truthfully call itself a God-fearing Nation. Politically, paganism has prevailed and America will cease to be great to the degree America ceases to be godly.

In the land of the free and the home of the brave, we are now free to bravely kill the most voiceless, innocent, and defenseless in America . . . unborn children. A death storm rages on the womb front. America's holocaust is abortion ... condemned in God's Word, the Bible ... the Book of Life.

All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made in him was life; and the life was the light of men.
-John 1:3-4 KJV

Acyutananda #fundie disqus.com

Acyutananda:
I'll reproduce here a comment I made under the recent "Science/Philosophy Distinction" post:
The funny thing is that the scientists who say life doesn't begin at conception don't disagree about science with those who say it does. If they were all to sit around a table and discuss one point in time of human development after another, they would closely agree about the processes going on at each point.
They are disagreeing about nomenclature, about words. It's a semantic debate. If they were to agree to freshly coin all the words they will need for the embryology field, they could probably easily coin some words and assign them the definitions that will be most useful for their scientific purposes, and come to an agreement. But since they persist in using existing words, and existing words, such as "life" and "human," have associations with implications (implications which those scientists understand) for perception and private behavior and public policy, the scientists' nomenclature preferences will be underlain by their different philosophies, and a faction of scientists with one philosophy will want to use different words than a faction of scientists with a different philosophy. The pro-choice side will want us to view the scientific reality (upon which there is no disagreement) through a word filter that will make the pro-choice side look good and feel good, rather than a filter that will make the pro-life side look good and feel good.
Moreover, many existing words, including "life," have multiple meanings that simply invite the unscrupulous to obfuscate. For example:
"The final quote from Robert Wyman (a neurobiologist) makes the most bizarre claim I've ever seen a pro-choice person make. Life doesn't begin at fertilization, they claim, it began billions of years ago. And that is somehow supposed to show that we can't know when an individual human life begins."
I agree that that is what Wyman was trying to show. But to some extent he evades being caught and pinned to the wall, by applying what seems to be intentional obtuseness.
It would matter not at all whether viruses were alive if we didn't reify and virtually fetishize our own categories. A failure to answer that question (are viruses alive?) wouldn't prevent us from acquiring a finely-detailed, even god-like scientific understanding of viruses, if we're otherwise capable of acquiring it.
Just as knowing whether or not an embryo is a person, or a human being, matters not at all, as long as we understand what kind of life it would have if it lives, and understand that if we kill it, we deprive it of that life. Science.

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Acyutananda:
Bessie, I don't mind your lack of interest in the issue I raised. Thanks for at least not exhibiting misunderstanding of the issue.

Boiler-Maker #fundie topix.net

If homosexuals are born that way, there must be some way of telling at the time of birth. I think that I am NOW Pro-Choice (Pro-Abortion) for gay fetuses at the time they are about to be born!

[And, in the next post...]

Do they get an erection when the doctor tries to reach in and pull them out, or when they see the doctor after they are born?(Male doctors, of course).

Samuel James #fundie patheos.com

But #DefundPlannedParenthood is about more than tax dollars. It’s about, as Krauthammer notes, turning on the lights inside the abortion industry. I’ve argued before that pro-abortion sentiment in this country thrives off ignorance. Is there a more coherent explanation as to why Planned Parenthood and its allies lobby against ultrasound and parental notification laws? By keeping the visceral reality of abortion obscure–and by drenching the debate in muddy jargon–the architects of legal abortion can fold into “pro-choice” ranks many who might otherwise stand for life.

But what about those people like the medical officials in the videos? What about people with a lifetime’s worth of experience in dismembering unborn bodies (and then haggling over a fair price)? They are not clueless. Krauthammer’s ominous words about “what abortion does to us” sound like the Old Testament prophet’s warning that those who worship idols eventually become like them. There’s a hardening of the moral sensibility that must come to those who learn to excel in the business of death.

That’s the testimony of the late Bernard Nathanson, the famous abortionist-turned-pro-life activist. Dr. Nathanson’s documentary The Silent Scream has been credited with converting many to the cause of life, merely through its grisly depiction of an actual abortion. Like many other pro-life activists, Nathanson was militant for the cause of abortion rights for a long time as a medical professional. The story of his conversion to the cause of life is in this terrific profile by Robert P. George, and I encourage you to read the entire piece.

One chilling paragraph, with a quote from Nathanson, stands out:

By his own estimate, he presided over more than 60,000 abortions as Director of the Center for Reproductive and Sexual Health, personally instructed medical students and practitioners in the performance of about 15,000 more, and performed 5,000 abortions himself. In one of those abortions, he took the life of his own son or daughter—a child conceived with a girlfriend after he had established his medical practice. Writing with deep regret in his moving autobiography The Hand of God (1996), Nathanson confessed his own heartlessness in performing that abortion: “I swear to you, I had no feelings aside from the sense of accomplishment, the pride of expertise.”

“I had no feelings.” That’s it. That’s what Krauthammer means when he says “what abortion does to us.” The numbness, the deafness, the coldness. The corrosion of the moral imagination.

The videos of Planned Parenthood depict a culture–and likely a business–defined by its emotional distance from reality. The unborn children whose parts are bargained for over a red wine are not the only victims here. Can a society with such a calcified conscience ever regain its humanity? Yes it can. Like Dr. Bernard Nathanson, abortionists can discover the beauty of birth, through the miracle of rebirth. The blood of Jesus Christ runs deeper and redder than the bloodiest surgical tool. A dead moral imagination can be raised to life again, as sure as the dead body of the Son of God was raised.

Life Dynamics Inc. #fundie klannedparenthood.com

This portion of the Death Camps tour looks at the history of holocaust. By comparing Germany's Nazi holocaust and America's abortion holocaust you'll see there is practically no difference between the mindset of holocaust then and now. As with slavery in early America, killing Jews in Nazi Germany, or killing babies in America today -- just because something is legal does not make it right. So how do you get a country to allow humans to be treated worse than animals? You use euphemisms to convince people that these actions are justifiable, or even beneficial.

Abortion advocates and America's largest Death Camp operator, Planned Parenthood, have elevated the dehumanization of holocaust victims to an art form with their 'pro-choice' rhetoric. But those who side with the pro-choice crowd may be shocked by the racial slurs and elitist ideals of Planned Parenthood's celebrated founder, Margaret Sanger. As you'll see, her words and goals bear an eerie similarity to the words and ideas of the Nazis.

Holy Roller #fundie christianforums.com

[Originally Posted by wanderingone
Do you mean why are "believers" anti choice and non believers pro choice?

Because surely you don't believe prochoice people are "pro" abortion?

What kind of "believer" do you mean? Hare Krishnas? Jews, Catholics? Lutherans? Pentecostals? Scientologists? Pagans?

I'm a Christian, I am pro-choice.]

I will now officially call into question anyone's salvation who also alleges to be pro-abortion.

Gregory of Yardale #fundie moonbattery.com

Once again giving lie to the leftist talking point that "No one is pro-abortion," Planned Parenthood is publishing abortion-themed Valentine's Day cards. Because nothing says "love" like murdering the child that results from unprotected sex.

The cards feature a large heart on a white background with the message, "I love pro-choice doctors" and a link to the pro-abortion group's web site.

The cards are designed to be sent to abortionists, to thank them for making it possible for people to have unprotected recreational sex without consequences; which is the most important progressive value.

Jon McNaughton #fundie blog.jonmcnaughton.com

Elections are about choice. There were only three choices in this election: Vote for Obama with his entitlement, big government, anti-Christian views; or vote for Romney with his less government, less regulation, stronger military and religious freedom views. The third choice was to do nothing and in effect cast your vote for Obama.

So, was God in this election? Absolutely Yes!!! You may say He offered the American people a “tender mercy.” A tender mercy is a blessing from God that we don’t deserve, but He offers it anyway. America is dying on the vine with our economy in shambles and unemployment at all time highs. We are also in a dangerous situation with our enemies and corruption is running rampant in Washington. We needed a candidate that would help America get moving in the right direction.

But Americans chose a President who is under scrutiny for his actions in Benghazi and the Fast and Furious gun running scandal. They chose a candidate that is Pro-choice at the highest level. They chose a man who ran a deceitful campaign. They chose a man who has demonstrated policies that have hurt the American economy and increased our debt twice the amount of the former President. They chose Obama anyway!

Perhaps they made their choice because Romney was a Mormon? Perhaps they saw in Obama a better chance for them getting a government handout. Perhaps they were pro-choice, pro-Gay rights, or just liked Obama’s smile? We are now a country that leans to the left 51 to 49%. We are past the tipping point.

So where is God in this? He gave America a lifeline…and they rejected it. God is forever merciful, but we ALWAYS have the freedom to choose. I believe that Romney was the tender mercy God sent to help save America.

I’m afraid to see the next chapter of this story. As the polarization widens in this country the time will come when the wicked will have to face the consequences of their actions. Continue to pray with all your might that God will preserve this nation. Our prayers are always answered, but often we don’t see God’s hand until the dust settles.

Kandy Fire N Ice #fundie disqus.com

(responding to story “Calif. Man Charged With First-Degree Murder After Allegedly Forcing Girlfriend to Ingest Abortion Pill at Gunpoint”):

I wonder if any Pro-Choice men and women will come here and defend this woman who did not want to end her pregnancy. Her choice was to continue this pregnancy. But was forced by the father to end her wanted pregnancy. The Pro-Choice men and women always says it should be the woman's choice not the mans choice. So how come these men and women are not coming to her defense?

WorldGoneCrazy #fundie disqus.com

The SCOTUS decision is playing out in a rather interesting way on our sidewalk.

Not one bit of celebration by our deathscorts.

But, lots of interesting questions by us.

"Is this decision not proof that pro-choicers are anti-woman and PRO-ABORTION?"

'Why the celebration for an abortuary's 'victory' when they are only slightly better than a rusty coat hanger - maybe?"

"Are lower standards REALLY the goal of the women's 'rights' movement?!?"

SCOTUS actually handed pro-lifers some delicious talking points. And Erin Mersino just nailed them!

There is no pretending now, pro-aborts. :-)

HM3 Ratigan USN 1987-1993, Once a Doc Always a DOC #fundie forum.myspace.com

taking an innocent life has always been wrong in the eyes of God. Note the emphasis on Innocent Life. For years now the Pro-choice community has attempted to use the bible to justify their desire and supposed right to slaughter their unborn children. They will always be wrong. no matter how often you attempt to gloss over the abortion issue abortion will always be the taking of an innocent life. You can't make killing an innocent child sound Patriotic, or american, or heroic or beautiful. Nor can you convince the pro-life world that abortion is a right guaranteed to all women. Killing is killing not matter how many times you gloss it over. Spending hours upon hours scouring the bible looking for loopholes will not convince any pro-life or God that abortion is not the killing of an innocent human being. Whether that human being be a newly concieved fetus or a 8 month 29 day old baby born a few days early it has a God given right to live. A right given to he or she by God and like or not only God can take away that right. He is the author of life. I know it is not what you pro-choice people want to hear. You don't want to hear that God has control over your lives, bodies and souls. Get over it. Behave and embrace all life and we will all be better because of it.

Williamson, TX County Council #fundie kxan.com

After Williamson County Precinct 3 Constable Bobby Gutierrez retired, commissioners had to appoint a new constable. They interviewed five candidates. And the questions they asked those candidates during the interviews raised eyebrows.

“Was I for gay marriage or against gay marriage?” former candidate Robert Lloyd said he was asked. “The next question was, what was my thoughts on abortion? Was I pro-life or pro-choice?”

“I knew the question was coming about church because in the realm of the questions that were being asked,” Lloyd continued.

Lloyd has more than 27 years of law enforcement experience. He was one of five candidates interviewed for the constable post which pays a taxpayer funded salary of $71,785 a year.

Other candidates have also confirmed to KXAN they were asked about their religion, their stance on abortion and their views on gay marriage. But the Williamson County Commissioners don't see anything wrong with it.

“In general, this is a process that is different than a normal employment interview, because it is an elected position,” said County Commissioner Valerie Covey.

Me #fundie forum.myspace.com

Pro-Life has nothing to do with religion.
Pro-lifers are pro-women, we believe
women deserve more than men. Abortion
is the idea that women need to kill and have
a surgery to gain equality to men (something
inachieveable anyways) and there's no
excuse or reason for abortion in this day and
age, you say you pro-choicers are pro-women,
yet you are killing us females everyday, how
does that make sense? How can you be a
damn commie when communists are so currupt?
Theres no avoiding it either, the commie curroption,
like the whole "theres 40 pigs and 200 ppl" scanario.
Communism doesnt work, sorry kid. Anyways, back
to the subject at hand... You say that you believe
in equal rights, but yet men cant get abortions, so
its soley a womans choice, undermining a man who,
say, would like to have his child.

PETE #fundie forum.myspace.com

And if someone is pro-choice then they are pro-slavery. It's the same thing, no doubt about it. Astral called someone else racist, well the truth is Astral must be pro-slavery so who is the racist. It is the same principle, PROPERTY, the baby and the slave. Such hypocrites we have who are pro-choice and in the same breath tries to preach equality.

O Rei do Frango Assado #fundie shenmuedojo.net

When my mother got pregnant of me, doctors said that both she and I would likely die and that she should have an abortion. Luckily, she's completely against it and she could never do such a thing. Well, despting knowing that we could both die, she carried on and delivered. And her I am, a healthy man and my mother is also still alive. God bless her!
I don't know if there's life after death, but if there is and if dead people can haunt the living (I don't actually believe in that stuff, by the way) and I happened to be an aborted person, I'd haunt my mother for the rest of her days.

When your own mother decides to kill you, that's as bad as it can get. There's no one in this world that I trust more than my mother. I'd gladly put my life in her hands, for I know that the love of my mother for me knows no bounds. The same can be said about my love for my mother. Whenever I think that there are women who have no problem in disposing of their own children, as if they were some kind of parasite, I become apalled.
Painful death is what they deserve.


You see, I've always said that I find surprising that abortion is a cause for debates. After all, we never see anyone talking about whether or not homicides should be made legal.
I think the reason for that is because it is just much easier to kill off someone who's still inside a womb. Someone that no one sees, hears and knows. As they say: out of sight, out of heart...

No matter how many problems a woman has, it is no excuse to make an abortion. It is far worse than rape, which many people seem to regard as the most terrible crime ever. When a woman is pregnant, she just has to deal with it.

And I find it funny how people who are for abortion like to call themselves "pro-choice". Women make their choices when they decide to have sex (except in the case of rape, but, in that case, they can just put the child up for adoption. Maybe even keep the child. There are many women who kept their children who were the result of rapes. After all, that doesn't change the fact that it IS their children too, not just the rapists'.
Sure, raping is a terrible crime and, if it was up to me, I'd have all rapists completely castrated, but that is no excuse to kill your own child. That'd just make the woman who did it much worse than the rapist). And no, an abortion isn't deciding what you do with your own body. It is deciding what you do with someone else's.
One could also say that it is the psychopath's choice to get an axe and cleave someone's skull.

Like I said, just as a newborn child is developing into a fully functioning adult, so is an embryo.

And by the way, many people seem to think that all who oppose abortion are religious fanatics. This has nothing to do with religion. I'm not religious myself. It is just a matter of having some good sense.

Joe K #fundie blog.wired.com

The true colors of pro-choicers: punching unborn children. Give them credit for telling the truth we knew all along.

You don't need to be Christian or moral to disagree with abortion. Just imagine a woman who haunted with her unborn child.

Pro-choicers: I hope all of you (or you're wives) abort your children so your vile lineage will be wiped from the Earth

Katie Ann Johnson #fundie facebook.com

I use to be pro-choice until I got saved and read the gospel and REALLY understood what being pro-choice meant....needless to say I’m pro-life because it’s not right to end a potential life because of someone’s negligence. In a world where condoms, birth control, and, the morning after pill are tangible easily, there’s no excuse. There is NO such thing as “accidentally pregnant”. Have safe sex or don’t have sex at all (which is my route and I must say it’s 100%)

Jonathan Van Maren #fundie lifesitenews.com

The lies you were taught about the sexual revolution…that you still don’t know were lies

“The most effective way to destroy people,” George Orwell once noted, “is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history.” In today’s culture, knowledge of history is, itself, fast becoming history.

Late-night hosts sometimes make comedic hay of this growing cultural Alzheimer’s by asking people in the street mundane questions such as “Who were our allies in World War II?” to hilariously cringe-worthy responses. But there is a distinctly unfunny side to our forgetfulness. We are very much at risk, as the old saying goes, not just of repeating history because we have forgotten it, but of repeating it without even being aware that we are repeating it.

It was this point that veteran Canadian journalist and author Ted Byfield emphasized over and over when I spoke with him some time ago. “We are swiftly abandoning many of the fundamental social and moral principles upon which our civilization is based,” he said. “That is, we’re zealously cutting off the branch we’re sitting on…very few people, whether educated or uneducated, know where those principles came from, and how we came to embrace them. We are dangerously ignorant of our own heritage and history.”

Byfield is right. When I began researching the social history of the West several years ago, I found myself consistently stunned by the simple fact that much of what I’d been taught - or at least led to believe - was untrue. While many university professors are lovely teachers and impressive academics that I count myself privileged to have met, there are also many aging hippies who abandoned their communes for a more fertile way of disseminating their ideology—academia. In lecture halls in front of thousands of students, they sell their own version of how history has unfolded, leaving most of us completely unaware of how things have actually happened.

Since I finished my own degree in history, I have often pondered this irony: that Christian parents will struggle against the influences of the culture in order to inculcate their children with traditional values and a Christian worldview, and then pony up tens of thousands of dollars to universities just to give their faculties four years to convince their children to abandon this worldview.

For example, I was taught in first year history that the Sexual Revolution hadn’t actually taken place, and that we knew this because Alfred Kinsey’s infamous 1950s Kinsey Reports had revealed definitively that Americans of all classes were engaging in every imaginable type of sexual behavior. Virtually no one was faithful to his or her spouse, homosexual relationships were common, and even bestiality was supposedly frequent. And this is still the history that is being taught without question, even though, as I’ve written before, Alfred Kinsey’s reports have been thoroughly debunked, and he has been discredited as guilty of everything from enabling horrifying acts of pedophilia to intentionally trying to disprove Christian sexual ethics. Those still lustily engaged in celebrating the aged and disease-ridden Revolution of the ‘60s, however, have much to lose in the dissemination of this disturbing set of historical facts.

So too with anthropologist Margaret Mead and her famous 1928 Coming of Age in Samoa, a book that exploded into Western consciousness by revealing that other cultures rejected traditionalist codes of sexual behavior, and were thriving as the result. The most highly circulated anthropology book every written and required reading in Western universities everywhere, it was later proven to be badly researched and even fraudulent. In fact, Mead’s sources revealed to a professor who followed up on her claims years later that their titillating tall tales had merely been a practical joke. Yet, you won’t find Mead’s work critically examined in most universities—and her work still undergirds much of our society’s attitudes towards so-called sexual liberation.

The web of deceit continued with abortion. Dr. Bernard Nathanson, a doctor who helped found the National Association for the Repeal of Abortion Laws (now known as NARAL) with prominent feminist leaders such as Betty Friedan, was a key voice in pushing for the largest abortion clinic in the world in New York state. After becoming pro-life as the result of advances in the field of foetology, he revealed in a series of memoirs that the numbers of back-alley abortions used by NARAL and the abortion movement to argue in favor of legalizing abortion were, to put it bluntly, made up. This is corroborated by the fact that no reputable historical source can provide us with any evidence of the staggering numbers of illegal abortions that the pro-choice establishment still claims happened to this day. I still meet dozens of people on university campuses who make the argument that abortion will not decrease if made illegal. And why? Because they’ve never been taught any factual history, just the fictitious narrative created for public consumption.

And these are just three staggering examples among hundreds. Our cultural elites - the media, Hollywood, academia, and even much of the political establishment - are too invested in the horrifying experiment that is the Sexual Revolution to examine the history of this revolution or its tragic outcomes honestly. And thus, we face a constant barrage of “progressive” celebrations. Documentaries and films and conferences celebrate Kinsey, Mead, and flocks of feminists who championed abortion-on-demand. Our history is not our own. The history taught in virtually all of our public institutions is, in reality, an ideology.

The Sexual Revolutionaries didn’t just throw out the book. They rewrote it, because that’s what revolutionaries always do. This struck me vividly a few months back when I was traveling in China, and our tour guide Anna was taking my friend and I from the Forbidden Palace to Tiananmen Square to Mao Tse-Tung’s Mausoleum, where the dead dictator still lies in state in a glass-covered coffin. After listening to Anna praise Mao for hours, I asked her how she could possibly believe he was good for China when, by some estimates, he presided over the deaths of nearly seventy million people. First, she was irritated, and then, agitated. After informing me that Mao was a great leader, she ended our discussion by announcing, “Denying Mao would be like denying Communist Party!” And with that, historical truth was placed firmly in the backseat to ideological obligation.

In order to understand the sex-driven lunacy and carnage that has gripped our culture on virtually every front, we have to put history back in the front seat. We have to honestly analyze and understand how we reached this point, so that we can begin to realize what we can do—not to return, but to rebuild. To equip our children and the upcoming generation with the truth of what has actually taken place, and why it is that we believe what we believe.

This is precisely what Ted Byfield, now in his eighties, told me when I asked him what young people could do to begin the process of cultural renewal. Read history, he told me urgently. People will be stunned to find out what actually happened—“they will be astonished at the things we’ve done in [the last] century that made no sense at all. What should be emphasized in your generation is to find out what happened. In other words, read history.”

And when you do, things finally start to make more sense.

shawn (L-CA) wishes to be in AZ #fundie forum.myspace.com

it wasso funny when it happened in the anti-tobacco group, Ajay came in, endorsing his pro-life group, anti-smoking rights pro-choicers got at him, very funny. "I can do what i want with my body." from "Don't you dare smoke a cirgatte." so hilarious. i can appreciate that now that i am a libertarian.

[So does this mean you're pro-choice now?]

helll bleeping no, it's rather a long explanation on how i work my pro-life values into my libertarian philosophy.

Rebecca Kiessling #fundie rebeccakiessling.com

Please understand that whenever you identify yourself as being “pro-choice,” or whenever you make that exception for rape, what that really translates into is you being able to stand before me, look me in the eye, and say to me, “I think your mother should have been able to abort you.” That’s a pretty powerful statement. I would never say anything like that to someone. I would say never to someone, “If I had my way, you’d be dead right now.” But that is the reality with which I live. I challenge anyone to describe for me how it’s not. It’s not like people say, “Oh well, I‘m pro-choice except for that little window of opportunity in 1968/69, so that you, Rebecca, could have been born.” No — this is the ruthless reality of that position, and I can tell you that it hurts and it’s mean. But I know that most people don’t put a face to this issue. For them, it’s just a concept a quick cliche, and they sweep it under the rug and forget about it. I do hope that, as a child of rape, I can help to put a face, a voice, and a story to this issue.


In law school, I’d also have classmates say things to me like, “Oh well! If you’d been aborted, you wouldn’t be here today, and you wouldn’t know the difference anyway, so what does it matter?” Believe it or not, some of the top pro-abortion philosophers use that same kind of argument: “The fetus never knows what hits him, so there’s no such fetus to miss his life.” So I guess as long as you stab someone in the back while he’s sleeping, then it’s okay, because he doesn’t know what hits him?! I’d explain to my classmates how their same logic would justify me killing you today, because you wouldn’t be here tomorrow, and you wouldn’t know the difference anyway, so what does it matter?" And they’d just stand there with their jaws dropped. It’s amazing what a little logic can do, when you really think this thing through -- like we were supposed to be doing in law school -- and consider what we’re really talking about: there are lives who are not here today because they were aborted. It’s like the old saying: “If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is around to hear it, does it make a noise?” Well, yeah! And if a baby is aborted, and no one else is around to know about it, does it matter? The answer is, YES! Their lives matter.

Thomas Yanoti #fundie examiner.com

So, for the time being, America remains a world power. But the great American experiment is taking on leaks, slowly sinking in secularist ideology and popular idolatry. And though we still have the bombs, and the boots for the ground, we have lost a lot of our moral authority. For we are weak, decadent, and the proof is in the American pudding.

Barack Obama is exhibit A. Unpatriotic and weak, he is a baby killing, drone dropping Nobel Peace Prize winner. He is a rhetorical wizard, short on authenticity. He is a class divider, strong armed socialist, anti-Christian pseudo-Christian, anti-American military, Democratic fund raising, golfer.

Exhibit B is American cafeteria Catholicism. Pro-Choice, Pro-gay 'marriage,' Pro-illegal (yes, illegal) immigration, pro-socialism, pro-entitlements, and pro-throwing mud at Church hierarchy in Rome, this group of well polished, pious, miscreants has dragged our nation into immoral muck. All in the name of Jesus.

Exhibit C is power Protestantism. With Mega-Churches, the gospel of prosperity, envy of Holy Mother Church (the Roman Catholic Church), and an all too compromising mentality toward the popular culture, the original spirit of Protestant revolt has turned into the great American sellout. But don't tell Joel Osteen that, he's turning a very big, quick buck!

Exhibit D is the continuation, to this very day, of abortion on demand, and the continuing promotion of abortion and contraception and promiscuity, under the PC banner of 'women's reproductive rights.' Exhibit D is the whoring of Mexicans, Central and South Americans, through illegal immigration, for the sole purpose of keeping Democrats in power through entitlement dollars. Exhibit D is the diminution of American exceptionalism through the wimpy foreign affairs policy of Barack the wimpy. America is no longer the light upon the hill, shining liberty, justice, and truth for the world to see. Now it is just a used care salesman mooing and belching forth a sales pitch for profit.

Third World Christianity is ready to take over. Maybe Obama's evil plan to infiltrate our Southern Border with illegal, entitlement dependent, Democratic voters will backfire. Maybe God will reopen the American vineyard to a new Judeo-Christian Spirit of faith, hope and charity.

savagesusie #fundie freerepublic.com

Isn’t it such a Wittgensteinian thing to equate “sodomy” with a civil right?

Marxists bastardize language——twist words-—Homosexual should NEVER be allowed to exist along side the word “marriage” like for centuries. It is obscene and ugly idea that is trying to be “normalized” so we can rid the world of the Bible and the true God.

All in a Marxist minute——redefinition of words—like abortion=pro-choice, etc. is to make some despicable behavior and choice appear “normal” and “natural”. There is nothing normal and natural about sodomy. It is an evil act.

Disgusting. The Blacks should be outraged. Behaviors that are destructive to humans should be outlawed like sodomy has been for hundreds of years.

Truthmonger #fundie newsbusters.org

...I saw this episode - no one blew up in the Schaivo case of course - much to the MSM's dismay - so they made a "reality" it on TV (the only way they can ever get their way anymore). Of course the evil bomber turned out to be (suprise!) an evil pro-life Christian. MJB will be back here later promoting "how everyone knows" that all pro-lifers are really avid pipe bombers hell-bent on blowing up all ("truly decent") pro-choicers...

The bigger implication of the episode was that a pro-life clergyman cleverly orchestrated the bombing with diabolical mind-manipulation methods in order to gain media exposure...when is the last time we saw a positive pro-life character or conservative Christian on a major network televison program? The answer of course is never...they are all evil or mind-numbed robots in MSM la-la land...

The main ploy here here is to make the pro-lifers look like the killers - take the focus off of the REAL pro-choice killers. This is a common lib tactic I've noticed now as we also saw in New Orleans where racist libs tried to paint conservatives as the racists...

As I watch these programs week after week I increasingly wonder about these writers...their anti-Christian propaganda and agenda is now so transparent. They are so hate-filled, guilt-ridden, and bitter about their lives. They are such fear-mongers, such bigots...what truly pathetic lives they live...

WorldGoneCrazy-NotMurderedYet #fundie disqus.com

(referring to article here: https://www.liveaction.org/news/?p=174292)

This article proves once again that those who are "pro-choice" are anti-science.

“I’m reading this as anti-abortion wedge. If an unborn child can be a beneficiary, that makes them a legal person, so how can they be killed?”

And that statement proves once again that those who are "pro-choice" are truly the modern-day equivalents of slavers and Jew gassers.

David J. Stewart #fundie jesusisprecious.org

For the longest time Trump was pro-choice, but then all of a sudden announced that was pro-life when he decided to run on the Republican presidential ticket. At one time Bill Clinton said he was “pro-life” while governor of Arkansas. Then when he ran as a Democrat for U.S. President, he said that he was pro-choice. What a fraud! These politicians have no integrity, no honor and no respectability. We live in a nation of gullible and foolish churchgoers (many are not true Christians). As a whole, the churches are a big problem in America today, because they support satanic Bible revisions, support manmade Illuminati Israel, they are woefully ignorant concerning the New World Order, and they are easily duped to support evil candidates simply because someone claims to be against abortion. What a sad testimony!

I actually heard Pastor Robert Jeffress of the First Baptist Church of Dallas, Texas, say publicly that he would vote for an atheist to become U.S. President if he was against abortion. No wonder our nation is in peril! Christians are to give their allegiance to the Lord Jesus Christ, not men. Christians are citizens of Heaven. We are pilgrims passing through here on earth, not settlers. This world is not my home, I'm just-a passing through.

~*Steph*~ is pro-life AND PRO-LOVE!!! #fundie forum.myspace.com

Ok, well this is me attacking one dumb ass pro-choicer...you are a fucking cunt ass bitch Sarah. I honestly have horrible wishes for your future. Im so glad to know that I will not be reading your nonsence anymore. Go throw your bullshit at someone else.

As for the rest of you, I will not name names because all of you disgust me, I wish you all pain and suffereing for the rest of your miserable lives. As for me, I will continue planning my wonderful wedding, HAVING beautiful babies, and having faith in GOD.

dragolb #fundie dragolb.tumblr.com

i’m gonna get bombarded with hate for this but i s2g these fucking pro-choice people make me so mad with their self righteous attitude “you don’t know what consent means” fuck you. you’re dealing with another person’s life here. and it’s your own fault for having this baby. unless your life is in danger, there is absolutely no excuse

---

follow up: this was directed toward an aggressive post in particular on my feed which was bashing pro lifers, i have honestly nothing against anyone with this opinion, please just??? don’t???? have this fucking attitude???

Noguy #fundie comments.deviantart.com


Like Nazis, the pro-choice movement dehumanizes its victims; it treats the unborn as sub-humans, like the Nazis treated the Jews. The hypocracy of the situation is that many pro-choicers oppose the death penalty for criminals, but have no problems with killing innocent unborn children.

HM3 Ratigan USN 1987-1993, Once a Doc Always a DOC #fundie forum.myspace.com

You have to understand. The Pro-choice machine has ordered him to believe that the only way a baby can be created is the only way they say it can be. To hell with basic biology. To hell what cameras inside the womb has proven. Planned Parenthood has commanded him to believe it is a blob of tissue with no human features for the first 12 weeks. Please note the Planned Parenthood Diclaimer. (Special disclaimer: Planned Parenthood reserves the right to change and alter the way the fetus developes at it's discretion. And when said orgainization deems it needed to change said fetal development it must be accepted as gospel!!)

The Pro-choice movement is built on lies and violence. It has been founded on deception and lies from it's very beginning. but since they usually shout the loudest and make sure that all of their "Experts" have lots of fancy titles after their names everything they say will hailed as gosple!!!

mother-child-life #fundie mother-child-life.tumblr.com

[ note this person also is an atheist btw ]

Iget how pro-choicers can see this and feel repulsed and angry. No-one wants to see a pregnant 9 year old, no one. Not me, not betterthanabortion, nobody. It breaks my heart that this little girl is going through this, that she was sexually assaulted, and now she is facing a pregnancy. It’s absolutely upsetting, of course, and I hope whoever did this to her is punished accordingly. The thing about being pro-life is that we view all humans completely equal to one another, even humans in the uterus. So when the baby is born and the mother is in the process of healing physically and emotionally, there will be a new little boy or girl in the world who will be able to live their life. Both children can live, nobody has to die in order to recover from a tragedy. It is very possible for this girl to recover and live her life happily and healthy. I’m sure years from now when the baby is grown she will be happy that she’s alive. See, when I view this situation, as awful as it is, I see 2 children that need to be protected. While the pro-choice side jumps to murder as the only way this girl can recover and live a happy life.

Patrick Scrivener #conspiracy reformation.org

The Cold War was the first war in history to be won exclusively by spies. After the arrest of KJB Colonel Oleg Penkovsky (the Russian Guy Fawkes), the Pentagon realized that nuclear war with the Soviet Union would indeed be suicide. Even the deadly attack on the Chernobyl nuclear power plant was the work of saboteurs and spies.

From that time onward, the Cold War became a covert war of spies, sabotage, assassinations, suicides, etc., etc. Uniquely, women as well as men played a deadly role in the decades long conflict between the superpowers.

Only the Judgment Day will reveal the names of all the behind the scenes combatants, so only the names of the main protagonists can be revealed at this time.

Patriotic Russians were at a great disadvantage in the Cold War because they were all HONEST MEN and would not use despicable spies.

They did have scouts, which are a legitimate part of any army.

The GRU was the intelligence department of the Russian Ministry of Defense.

Dmitry Ustinov was the Russian Minister of Defense. His death by poisoning in 1984 led to a coup d'état, that enabled Mikhail Gorbachov to seize the reins of power in the Soviet Union.

The main competition for the GRU came from the KGB, which was the Russian branch of the British Secret Service. Even when faced with annihilation by the madmen in the Pentagon, the Russians never used their foreign embassies as spying stations.

The KGB versus the GRU.

The KGB was the "enemy within" and the main competition for the GRU.

They were the equivalent of the British MI6 and the Pentagon's CIA.

The kGB played a pivotal role in the fall of the Soviet Union.

The main spying stations for the British Empire and the Pentagon were the British and U.S. embassies. Britannia rules the spying world because Downing Street is named after a spy.

Both embassies doubled as spying stations.

After the "Guy Fawkes" Penkowsky debacle, there was a lull in spying until the Presidency of Jimmy Carter in 1977.

Presidents Richard Nixon and Gerald Ford were HONEST MEN and they were totally opposed to spying. As a result, President Nixon was forced to resign in 1974, and President Ford was almost replaced by Nelson Rockefeller in 1975.

[...]

Concurrently with the Cold War, there was another war raging in Northern Ireland instigated by Sir Maurice Oldfield. Oldfield was a "practicing Catholic" and his ancestors burned the bones of Saint John Wycliffe.

Oldfield was largely responsible for the "Troubles" in Northern Ireland in which thousands of people were maimed and killed. In 1975, he appointed Margaret Thatcher leader of the Conservative Party, which led to her appointment as prime minister in 1979. This latter days Boudica was a veritable Russophobe.

Sir Maurice Oldfield was MI6 director from 1973 to 1981.

Oldfield chose Margaret "Iron Lady" Thatcher for the position of prime minister.

Her top assignments were to intensify spying on the Soviets and Northern Ireland, and prevent Argentina from acquiring an atomic bomb.

Oldfield was stationed in Washington City during the Cuban Missile Crisis. He convinced President Kennedy that Oleg "Guy Fawkes" Penkowsky could be relied upon to disable the Soviet Doomsday Device. As spymaster, he recruited Margaret Thatcher for the position of prime minister:

In this period Sir Maurice established what proved to be a mutually worthwhile relationship with Mrs Thatcher, then the recently elected leader of the Conservative Party. She was anxious to have some briefings on the various problems of the day touching on intelligence and security. An intermediary paved the way for such talks, which were welcomed as much by Oldfield as Mrs Thatcher. The Prime Minister, Callaghan, gave his approval and from then on the Conservative leader and Sir Maurice became firm friends. (Deacon, "C" A Biography of Sir Maurice Oldfield, p. 187).

Upon his "retirement" in 1978, Thatcher offered Oldfield the position of Coordinator of Security and Intelligence in Northern Ireland. As spymaster for Northern Ireland, he arranged the 1979 assassination of Lord Mountbatten and the Narrow Water ambush in which his IRA ambushed and killed 18 British soldiers. In that position, Oldfied made many powerful enemies and he was sent to "Saint Peter" in 1981.

Incredible as it may appear, Brazil feared a nuclear armed Argentina. From the Falkland Islands, the British monitored the progress of the Argentinean Bomb and were determined to defuse it.

In 1978, Sir Maurice Oldfield (a fluent medieval Latin speaker) chose British Secret Service agent Karol Wojtyla for Pope. This move was not unprecedented because Emperor Constantine was British.

1978 was the year of the 3 Popes.

2 Popes were given the Cup of Borgia and MI6 Karol Wojtyla was "elected" Pope.

It was the most expensive Papal election in history.

In Poland, KGB Wojciech Jaruzelski became dictator.

MI6 provided the expertise for the bugging of the conclave that "elected" Karol Wojtyla. The money for his election–the most expensive in the 1600-year history of the Papacy–came from the United States taxpayers. The Pope's top assignment was to destabilize the Warsaw Pact.

One of the main reasons why the Russians stayed in Eastern Europe was uranium. Uranium mines were located in East Germany and Czechoslovakia. Without their own nuclear weapons, the free world would have been turned into a parking lot by the Pentagon.

Aristocratic "Communist" Wojciech Jaruzelski ruled Poland from 1981 until the Fall of the Berlin Wall.

[...]

Oleg Gordievsky engineered the rise of Mikhail Gorbachev

In 1982, Oleg Gordievsky was assigned to the Soviet embassy in London as the KGB resident-designate. While working at the embassy, he spied on his own country, and even turned in Britons who were friendly towards the Soviets and afraid that Reagan would trigger Armageddon.

Oleg Gordievsky was a KGB colonel stationed in London who was instrumental in the rise of Mikhail Gorbachev

A most dangerous spy, he gave MI6 the names of Britons who feared that Thatcher and Reagan would trigger Armageddon.

Many of them were arrested and some were suicided. One of the names he gave to MI6 was Michael Bettaney, who was arrested and given a 23-year prison sentence for violating the Official Secrets Act.

Gordievsky arranged for the visit of Mikhail Gorbachev to London in December 1984. Gorbachev posed with Britain's Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher at the prime minister's official country residence at Chequers, north of London. While in London, Gorbachev visited the grave of fellow Secret Service agent Karl Marx.

KGB Gordievsky arranged for the visit of Mikhail Gorbachev to London in Dec. 1984.

The purpose of the visit was to be out of the country when defense minister Dmitry Ustinov was given the poison cup.

The KGB's timing was perfect. Just as Mikhail and Raisa are having a tête-à-tête with Thatcher, his main obstacle to the leadership of the Soviet Union died suddenly:

Sad news reached me while I was in London–Ustinov had died. I interrupted my stay and returned to Moscow. Ustinov's death was a grave loss, particularly painful in those troubled times. The leadership of the country was in a deplorable state. Problems arose even with the weekly Politburo meetings. Quite often Konstantin Ustinovich was unable to attend scheduled meetings–and I would be instructed to take the chair. (Gorbachev, Memoirs, p. 162).

Gorbachev was indeed grieving over the death of Ustinov, particularly when it opened the door to the top position in the Soviet Union. After thanking Thatcher for the timely demise of Ustinov, he raced back to Moscow. Konstantin Chernenko was also given the poison cup and he passed away on March 11, 1985.

Within 3 years, 3 Soviet leaders: Leonid Brezhnev, Yuri Andropov, and Konstantin Chernenko were given the poison cup!!

Only 3 hours after Chernenko's death, Mikhail Gorbachev was "elected" General Secretary of the Communist Party.

Fellow KGB spy and Georgian Eduard Shevardnadze became foreign minister.

Immediately, Gorbachev launched his program of glasnost (openness) and perostroika (restructuring).

The average age of his predecessors in the Politburo was 70 and Gorbachev was only 54. He traveled about the country with his wife Raisa and Russians were astonished that a Soviet leader would involve his wife in politics.

In foreign policy, he relied on Eduard Shevardnadze to coordinate the Fall of the Soviet Union with Reagan and Thatcher.

Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher visited President Reagan at the White House on July 17, 1987.

Her visit was to brief him for the upcoming Gorbachev visit.

The last British ruler of the colonies–King George III–decried the very idea of "petticoats in politics."

If general Jackson had been there he would have called Reagan a "traitor" and challenged him to a duel!!

Reagan was probably incoherent because of all the Howard Hughes radioactive dust he sniffed in Hollywood. in 1989, he had brain surgery to remove a "cancerous" tumor.

Oleg Gordievsky visited President Reagan on July 21, 1987. He was also preparing the way for the Gorbachev visit.

Gorbachev visited the White House on Dec. 8, 1987, to discuss the "peaceful" dissolution of the Soviet Union.

The Cold War was indeed and equal opportunity war as female spies also played a pivotal role in the conflict.

Femme fatale Nancy Reagan was the wife/boss of the President.

She was the U.S. counterpart to Britain's "Iron Lady."

She frequently consulted her horoscope to determine the propitious time for her husband to launch a thermonuclear attack on the Soviet Union.

Nancy persuaded her husband to postpone his brain surgery until he left the White House in January 1989.

In May 1985, Gordievsky was ordered to return to Moscow from Britain. Gordievsky suspected that the KGB knew that he was a spy, so, after a daring "escape" arranged by MI6, he arrived back in Britain in July:

Next day we caught a local plane to Oslo. There a Norwegian officer led us through back corridors at the airport to put us on a British Airways flight for London. At Heathrow, Special Branch officers slipped us off the aircraft, avoided Customs, and took us straight to the car park of a hotel, where a high-powered reception committee had gathered to greet me. Among them was the head of British intelligence's Soviet section; another was one of the directors of the security service, John Deverell, a man of exceptional intelligence and charm, who became a staunch friend and ally. Everyone was euphoric at scoring such a victory over the KGB: champagne flowed, and the atmosphere was one of celebration. (Gordievsky, Next Stop Execution, p. 346).

Victory over the British KGB....Gordievsky was a rat and a traitor to his country but he did have a twisted sense of humor.

Tony Miano #fundie carm.org

[This is from an article on how to "witness" in front of abortion clinics.]

There are two schools of thought regarding the use of signs outside abortion clinics. Some believe using graphic images of aborted babies, focusing on the death of the child, is a good visual deterrent for those who are entering abortion clinics. Others believe high quality images of living, preborn children are a more effective and less offensive visual deterrent.

Both schools of thought have merit. The decision whether or not to use signs, and what kind of signs to use, is a matter of conscience and therefore up to the individual.

A third option for those who wish to carry signs outside abortion clinics is to produce signs that have text, with no images. Appropriate pithy sayings or Bible verses can make for very effective signage.

Signs can be very effective tools in both pleading with people not to kill their unborn children and communicating truth in a limited amount of time.

[...]

In addition to citing Scripture, here are some short phrases one can quickly communicate to those walking into abortion clinics:

- "There are alternatives to killing your baby."
- "Give me your baby. Allow your baby to live and I will help you find a family to adopt your child."
- "You know this is wrong, for God has given you a conscience."
- "God hates murder. Please don't kill your baby."
- "God knows your child. He knit your child together in the womb."
- "Please do not kill your baby. He or she has been created in the image of God."
- "Please don't sin against God this way. You will stand before Him to give an account for what you are about to do."
- "You are making a choice. You are ending a life. You are killing your baby."
- "You do not stop being a mother after you kill your baby. You will always be a mother."

[...]

Most abortions are selfish acts of convenience. Abortion is an act of self-love in which mothers and fathers put the love of self before their love for God and other people -- especially their unborn children.

Christian "Answers" #fundie christiananswers.net

(From: "Is abortion justifiable in cases of rape or incest?")

Some pro-choice advocates claim that the pro-lifer lacks compassion, since the pro-lifer's position on rape and incest forces a woman to carry her baby against her will. Nothing could be further from the truth. It is the rapist who has already forced this woman to carry a child, not the pro-lifer.

Demonman #fundie arguewitheveryone.com

It's the principle of the matter that if I can't kill people, why should a woman of all people be able too? I know women get special treatment in the west, but this shit goes too far! You can regulate ciggarettes, cars, and alchahol. But suddenly any regulatory proccesses to discourage abortions is an enroachment on civil liberties? Give me a break. This is just another example of how there are no good people in the world. If there were, there wouldn't be any abortions. People would love their kids, and bomb the abortion clinics. Fuck them. Fuck what they do. If they don't believe in the right to life, don't believe in their right to life.

Randy Alcorn #fundie lifestrategies.thingseternal.com

(In a list of pro-life "responses" to pro-choice arguments)

39. "The last three decades of abortion rights have helped make our society a better place to live."

39a. Abortion has left terrible holes in our society.

39b. Abortion has made us a nation of schizophrenics about our children.

39c. Abortion is a modern holocaust we are accomplices to, and which is breeding unparalleled violence.

39d. Abortion is taking us in a direction from which we might never return.

39e. Abortion has ushered in the brave new world of human pesticides.

39f. Abortion has led us into complete moral subjectivism in which we are prone to justify as ethical whatever it is we want to do.

Anonymous #fundie aubscares.tumblr.com

You know if moms could kill their children after they're born (besides post natal abortion, I'm talking older than a few minutes here) and we gave pro choicers' mothers the chance to "abort" them, you'd bet your ass pro choicers would be backpeddling because you know damn well most of their mothers didn't want them in the first place.

Mr. Coulter #fundie godorscience.com

[Follow up to Mr. Coulter's previous incoherent rant, commenting on a study <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/5120004.stm" target="_blank">which strongly links particular biological elements of the womb</a> during pregnancy with homosexuality]

Yeah, the womb, just the womb, no other biological connection, just the womb, is the problem. What a dumbass. I suppose it is the penis' fault for rape, or for being a rapist. And the vagina's fault for luring the penis to force the unfortunate male into making his choice. That article BLATANTLY removes free-will from existance. You would think a libby sheeple would be defending free-will(certainly the main ingredient in pro-choice) to death, but hatred for being human seems to be the underlined goal.

WorldGoneCrazy #fundie disqus.com

(Story: "Pro-choice Feminist Thinks Women Having Abortions is Comparable to Men Having Sex"):

"Women end up getting botched back-alley abortions where many of them DIE."

False. Bernard Nathanson admitted later after converting to pro-life that his numbers regarding same were totally made up.

"Women have the same number of abortions, legal or illegal."

False. The law is a powerful teacher, and this has been shown to be true in both directions - where abortion was made legal and also where it was made illegal.

If your "logic" were valid, we would still have the same amount of racial slavery that we did in the 1800's. Very poor logic on your part.

"Your moral opinion of this matter is not the same as other people's moral opinion of it."

Correct. Which means one of us is correct and one is wrong. If abortion kills a human who has committed no crime, then you are wrong to the tune of the worst human rights holocaust in history. If abortion merely removes a clump of cells and does not kill a human, then I am unfairly restricting a woman's choice. Sadly, basic human biology proves that I am right and you are wrong. You have to deny science to get where you are.

"The fact remains that abortion is a decision for the woman to make."

Not any more than slavery was a decision for the plantation owner to make.

"Not the church, not other people, and certainly not the government."

Great! You just repealed Roe! Thanks for doing it for me! :-)

Dan Fisher #sexist patheos.com

“If elected, I will do everything in my power to bring this evil to an end and take executive action to ensure that all Oklahomans are equally protected, including the preborn,” the former Oklahoma state representative said in a video posted to his campaign’s YouTube page last week. “I will disregard any unjust rulings or perversions of the U.S. Constitution that claim that there is a right to murder preborn human beings in the womb.”

Fisher said in the video that anti-choice laws passed by Republican lawmakers “really only spell out the requirements for killing a preborn baby,” suggesting that they don’t go far enough. “Every one of these pro-life laws affirm abortion as legal, treat it as an acceptable choice, and seek to regulate the practice. If you think about it, these laws are basically pro-choice.”

“I am not running for governor of Oklahoma as a pro-lifer,” he said. “I am not running to regulate abortion. I am running to abolish it.”

Femitheist Divine #sexist thefemitheist.blogspot.com

Gender-based Abortion - Abort the Males

Gender-based abortion continues to exist for females all around the world. This female gendercide is based on the notion that females are innately inferior, or socially unworthy and or lacking of the potential for profitable intake.

The abortion of females based on gender all around the world, and even in America, effectively exemplifies the fact that many women are still indoctrinated, and many men are still pushing misogynistic agendas, both politically and culturally. These things must end if we are ever to achieve True Equality.

Now, the U.S. House has rejected a bill which would preclude gender-based abortion if doctors were to come across information regarding the person’s intent for the abortion. And, while I am pro-choice, I feel that the purpose of this bill was slightly misguided. It should be revised and legalized, and I will explain the reasoning for this.

The bill should be revised to include only abortions against female fetuses. Meaning, anyone who seeks an abortion because the gender of their fetus is female should be barred from having said abortion, and perhaps even criminally punished, depending on which half of the party came to this conclusion, assuming there are two present halves, for said desire. And, any doctor who performs an abortion for someone who wishes to dispose of a fetus due to the gender being female should receive criminal punishment.

On the other hand, anyone who desires to abort a fetus based on the gender because the fetus is male should be excluded from the bill entirely. This should be allowed. It is justified because women have proven to be the most profitable sex. They outperform men academically and in the workplace, and this is a trend which will continue to rise. Likewise, women are the greater minority when it comes to the committing of violent acts and crime.

[...]

Men, for many centuries, feared the education of women, and even stated that women were incapable of being educated, saying that they were “creatures of emotion without the ability to reason”. If this were the case, however, they would have at least tried to educate women to see if they had a potential for reasoning. They didn’t do this, because they feared that very potential. They knew all along that women could surpass them if they were given the opportunity, and they oppressed women for this very reason.

And, when women finally did achieve these opportunities, thanks to Patriarchal Manipulation for fear of a true awakening, women, overtime, did surpass men, are surpassing men, and will continue to surpass men until the true balance is overwhelmingly clear.

Save the females. Abort the males.

It is justified, it is necessary, and its premise is Undeniably True.

Thank you for your consideration!

redbloodedamerica #fundie redbloodedamerica.tumblr.com

[your forcing upon an unwanted child? What about failed contraception? What about accidental pregnancy? What about illnesses which are “scientifically proven” to be triggered and/or caused by pregnancy?What about the physical and mental changes the woman has to go through? May I also point out that not all women have easy pregnancies, supportive families and partners, decent income, health insurance (to where it concerns)]

• [“What about girls who are raped?”]
I’m not Catholic, but I believe they have a very sensible and ethical procedure to handle cases of rape. Rape is no excuse to kill a human. Two wrongs don’t make a right.

• [“What about women physically unable to follow through with pregnancy?”]


Women who are physically unable to follow through with pregnancy should not get pregnant to begin with. Use birth control. Get a tubectomy. Consult a doctor. Don’t rush into an abortion. There are options that pro-choicers tend to neglect to mention.

• [“What about women in abusive relationships?”]
If you’re in an abusive relationship…get out of it. This isn’t rocket science. I don’t know what an abusive relationship has to do with abortion. Are you saying that a woman isn’t capable to raise a child on their own?

• [“What about people living in poverty?”]
Poverty also has nothing to do with abortion…well, unless you’re into eugenics. The last time I checked, their are plenty of children living in poverty today. Keyword: living.

• “What about the unanswered questions your forcing upon an unwanted child?”
I’m not totally sure what you were trying to say here but there is no such thing as an “unwanted child.” That’s a terrible term thrown around by terrible people. There is always someone willing to adopt a child, even one that is disabled. For example we have people in this country that are smuggling children in from other countries:

•[ “What about failed contraception? What about accidental pregnancy?”]

An accidental pregnancy is not the child’s fault, is it? Trying to justify murder for your own mistakes is like a bank robber justifying killing a police officer because they were caught stealing.

• [“What about illnesses which are “scientifically proven” to be triggered and/or caused by pregnancy?”]

Again, see the Dr. Koop quote above. Talk to your doctor about the risks of the possible risks of pregnancy. Otherwise, use birth control or get a tubectomy. Be personally responsible for your actions. Sex is fun but it’s not a game.

• [“What about the physical and mental changes the woman has to go through?”]
No offense, but tough shit. We’re grasping at straws here.

• [“May I also point out that not all women have easy pregnancies, supportive families and partners, decent income, health insurance (to where it concerns)”]
Despite your myriad list of excuses, it all boils down to personal responsibility (other than in the small case of rape). There’s really no good justification to murder an innocent, unborn child. It’s neither logical nor moral.]

TomE #fundie defendproclaimthefaith.org

Barack Tutankhaman Obama

(King Tut)
(King Tut)
Now when he was a young man, he never thought he’d see.
(King Tut)

Himself to grow up to be the US President and rule over you and me!
(King Tut)

People stand in line to worship their boy messiah,
he want’s people to bow down to him–Iran’s next Ayatollah!
(King Tut)

Pharoah likes planned abortion; say’s he’s pro-choice,
easy thing to say cuz the unborn doesn’t have a voice!
(King Tut)

He likes to promote homo’s, put them in the military,
his goal is for personal jihad with an all pink Army!
(King Tut)

Now the man-of-sin is a sight to see, limp-wristed ruler from behind he likes to lead!
(King Tut)

Born in arrid Kenya, schooled in liberal california, lives in duh White House made of fine granite stone-uh!
(King Tut)

In His Service,
Tom

Ann Coulter #fundie dailycaller.com

[From Ann Coulter's latest book, "Demonic"]

“But more important, abortion clinic violence should not be filed under ‘Political Violence’ at all. It should be filed under ‘Things Liberals Won’t Let Americans Vote On.’…When there is no legal process for pro-lifers to pursue to outlaw abortion – unlike every policy liberals violently protest – some pro-lifers will inevitably respond to lawlessness with lawlessness,” Coulter writes. “In the first few years after [Planned Parenthood v. Casey], about six more people were killed in attacks on abortion clinics. Most of the abortionists were shot or, depending upon your point of view, had a procedure performed on them with a rifle.”

“There were no more constitutional options left to fight judicial tyranny on the little matter of mass murder,” she concludes. “Thus, abortion clinic violence is more akin to the Tiananmen Square protests in Communist China than any liberal riot in America. Want to stop violence at abortion clinics? Repeal Roe and let Americans vote.”

Julie Klose #fundie charismanews.com

The pro-choice movement coined the term "reproductive health" to promote contraception and ever-more-questionable methods to end pre-born lives worldwide. Far from empowering women, abortion has created a multifaceted marketplace that profits from killing the defenseless and using a woman's body during pregnancy.

Globally, the health and safety of women is being threatened by a corrupt industry that exploits them and devalues human life. Detailed research reveals five emerging issues that pose immediate risks to women during maternity.

1. Telemed abortions and off-label drug use leave women hospitalized

As many surgical abortion facilities close, the abortion-inducing drug RU-486 has increased the number of telemedicine abortions—known as telemed or webcam abortions.

This procedure induces a chemical abortion in an expectant mother when there is no doctor physically present. A physician consults with the mother via webcam; after explaining the abortion procedure, the drug is provided by the physician using a remotely activated drawer that opens. There is no physical examination of the mother by the physician, and drugs are administered by staff who may or may not be licensed.

The Iowa Board of Medicine banned chemical abortions without a doctor present due to the increased health risks to the mother. This ban is being challenged by Planned Parenthood of the Heartland in a recent Iowa Supreme Court case.

Abortion-inducing drugs pose numerous health risks for women, including death. These risks are increased by misuse, such as in telemed abortions. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and the drug manufacturer of RU-486 have acknowledged the risks involved, and the FDA has a specific protocol for "safe" use of the drug. Many abortion centers are ignoring this protocol and the health risks to women in order to reduce costs.

In an interview with Bound4LIFE, Stanford University Ph.D. Michael New summarized a recent study on webcam abortion health risks. "This study of more than 50,000 abortion patients confirms the finding that telemed abortions are a lot more risky than surgical abortions," said New.

"Their data shows the number of follow-up visits and emergency room visits are much higher for women having telemed abortions—the procedure has four times more risk of complications."

2. "Abortion pill smoothie" increases potential for coerced abortions

In March, a Norwegian man was sentenced to six years in prison for mixing abortion-inducing pills into a smoothie in order to terminate his girlfriend's pregnancy without her knowledge. According to news reports, the woman testified at the hearing that, "He tried several times to convince me to have an abortion, but it was not an option for me."

The man bought the abortifacients online and first gave them to her as painkillers; when the first attempt "failed" he bought a new batch of pills and mixed them into a smoothie. Her doctor confirmed that abortion-inducing drugs caused the miscarriage.

With the increased use of abortifacients in the United States, a woman's health is at risk both in accidental or coerced situations. A recent report by the pro-abortion Guttmacher Institute estimated that, while the abortion rate decreased by 13 percent overall, there has been an increase in chemical abortions. Chemical abortions now make up 22.6 percent of the total number of abortions.

"The Supreme Court has repeatedly held that states have an interest in protecting maternal health from the outset of pregnancy," write two Americans United for Life scholars. "[This] provides strong support for regulations requiring abortion providers to abide by the protocol approved by the FDA."

The Norwegian "abortion smoothie" criminal case warns women's health advocates worldwide of an emerging threat to the lives of both mothers and children.

3. Surrogacy: a new form of human trafficking

The inability to conceive a child is painful to deal with for those suffering from infertility. According to the CDC, about 12 percent of American women ages 15-44 suffer from infertility. Often it leads a couple to alternative conception measures such as in vitro fertilization (IVF) and surrogacy—the latter alternative to grow a family particularly controversial.

"Surrogacy is rife with controversy," writes adoption expert Mirah Riben. "PBS, BBC, and Newsweek are among some of the many venues that have exposed concerns about international surrogacy in particular." In the complex surrogacy process, achieved through a variety of arrangements, a surrogacy contract results in a woman carrying another couple's pre-born baby.

As an alternative to infertility struggles, how much do we understand about surrogacy as it relates to the health and well-being of women?

France has made surrogacy—or "womb prostitution" as it is referred to—illegal based on it being a form of "exploitation of poor and vulnerable women." France's Demonstration for All group is defending marriage in their country based upon the right of every child to deserve a mother and father. "One of their strongest arguments against ending marriage is it will lead to more of this womb prostitution," reports Family Research Council.

If traditional marriage is ruled against in the U.S. Supreme Court, how will this affect women? Will "womb prostitution" further devalue the beautiful, vital role of a mother? Surrogacy has massive repercussions for women. Not only does surrogacy exploit poor and vulnerable women, it degrades a woman's body as nothing more than a "host" or commodity.

The need for children outside the norms of traditional marriage has the potential to create an unregulated market and a whole new form of human trafficking. Infertility will no longer be the only reason for the surrogacy option.

4. Harvesting embryos for organs assaults the sanctity of the womb

When some scientists hail "research breakthroughs," a closer look reveals a dark underworld: An abortion industry that murders babies and sells their body parts to the highest bidder.

As reported previously by Bound4LIFE, the biotech company Ganogen Inc. in Redwood City, California, is harvesting kidneys from aborted babies. The company transplants fetal organs into lab rats where they can grow to a larger size—to be transplanted into a human patient. The process known as Xenotransplantation seeks "to grow human organs in animals, to end the human donor shortage."

Those profiting from the killing of babies are an industry of death, devaluing women and their God-given ability to grow a life inside of them. Much like surrogacy, this emerging field of embryo harvesting is treating the womb as a profit hub under the guise of medical research. The possible threats to a woman carrying a healthy, viable baby are endless when economic gain becomes involved with harvesting human body parts.

The womb is a sacred life sanctuary; a woman suffering from infertility realizes this innately. The ability to grow a life is a remarkable blessing. An ethical society cannot allow women's bodies to be used to manufacture organs for "medical research." It not only crosses moral boundaries but defies fundamental women's rights.

5. Permanent sterilization funding spurs on population control movement

According to recent reports, "The Gates Foundation gave an Oregon gynecologist $5 million in grant money last October to develop nonsurgical 'permanent contraception.'"

Dr. Jeffrey Jensen plans to use the $5 million grant from the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation to halt "unplanned, unwanted" pregnancies. In a report from the Portland Business Journal, Jensen said, "My goal is very simple: to make every pregnancy planned and highly desired."

Bill and Melinda Gates have been strong supporters of population control; millions of their Foundation funds have gone to promote contraception and abortion worldwide. Gates is even developing a "remote-control contraceptive device that would be injected into women and release contraceptive and abortifacient chemicals into her system for as long as 16 years."

Aside from concerns that population control strategies repeat the tragic eugenics history of Margaret Sanger, these permanent sterilization methods risk women's health and safety (along with ending the lives of their children) driven by the myth of overpopulation. Yet the Gates Foundation has found an ally even in Christian singer Amy Grant.

The Gates Foundation uses baseless claims that millions of women in developing countries would like to delay or stop unwanted pregnancies but don't have access to contraception. Why is the answer to this problem permanent sterilization instead of education and better health care?

Stephan Phelan of Human Life International responds to this human rights abuse: "There is no justice in manufacturing a supposed demand for poor women to be sterilized, when what these women always say they want most when asked is better basic health care, education, opportunity, and just governance."

masumi5 #fundie youtube.com

(Pro-Life is a ridiculous name. What a low blow. Pro-Choice should be upgraded to 'Pro-Humanity'. "We care about ALL of humanity, you simply care about forcing the population to grow, regardless of whether those babies will be cared for or be able to live happy lives.")

Wow, killing babies. How humane.

And you don't know whether they'll have good lives or not. There are 2 million couples waiting to adopt.

And our planet is not over-populated, if you brought everyone to Texas, they could all have 1 acre of land.

Go pro-life!

C_Mat #fundie gamefaqs.com

Let me ask you guys a question. Let's say there was a large building about to be demolished or burned down. There may or may not be 55 million innocent people inside this building. You ask the demolition crew if they've checked to see whether there are any people in this building, and they respond with "It's difficult to decide," or "I don't care much" or "I have mixed feelings on it." The logical thing to do is withhold destroying the building until you know with absolute certainty that no lives would be lost because of your actions.

The point is, only a morally bankrupt person would support the possible extermination of 55 million lives. I don't care if it's in the name of bodily autonomy or choice or whatever, nothing is more sacred and important and worthy of protecting than innocent human life. If the demolition chief even said, "I am 99% sure there is no human life in that building," even that would never be considered acceptable. Someone would be considered a fool to risk 55 million lives on a 99% chance. And not just a fool, a deranged, morally bankrupt lunatic. That's what I see when I hear people say they're pro-choice but have mixed feelings on abortion.

http://adam4d.com/slavery/

godisprolife #fundie godisprolife.livejournal.com

Abortion is wrong. It is insane. It is advocated by people who lie and tell the American people the supposed “reasons” it’s needed while not applying those reasons to any other stage of life other than life in the womb. And they simply don’t care what the reason for abortion is, just as long as it is a right throughout all nine months of pregnancy. That is what the pro-choice movement stands for. Not just choice, but unrestricted choice to slaughter children in the womb right up until birth. I don’t care that they want free childcare—they aren’t noble.

J.Matt Barber #fundie renewamerica.com

Although, our pro-abortion media will not likely give it much coverage, a similar such flashpoint of clarity occurred this past Tuesday in the Texas State House as pro-abortion activists, throughout the day, shouted "Hail Satan!" in an effort to drown out pro-life speeches and an impromptu rendering of "Amazing Grace." CNN's Josh Rubin confirmed this astonishing display by tweeting on site: "Crowd of anti-abortion activists giving speeches while a group of people chant hail Satan in the background."

I would like to take a moment to pause and personally thank our Satan-hailing friends for their brutally wicked honesty. What may have seemed, at the time, a glib bid to mock the peaceful Christians in attendance has, instead, demonstrated to the world exactly from whom (or what) derives the revolting inhumanity that is all things "pro-choice."

Dan Holman #fundie armyofgod.com

George Tiller was not your run-of-the-death-mill baby-killer. He was symbolic of the baby-killing industry. He grew in stature as he handily overcame personal obstacles and professional accusations. He made the black art of baby-killing acceptable, perhaps even noble to the public at large.

Tiller represented the baby-killing industry as their point man. He was the face that baby-killing Americans came to love, and pro-lifers love to hate. With legal impunity, wearing a shark-skin suit, Tiller killed the “big babies” with a smile.

Tiller was well connected, especially after the November Republican defeat. He did not squander his fortune, as most baby-killers do, on wine, women, and drugs; he invested wisely in politicians. Pro-choice to kill Governor Sebelius kept her protégé’ from being charged and convicted of a litany of violations of Kansas law. A rising star in Obama’s administration Sebelius would have taken Tiller along with her. Maybe even a Surgeon General.

Wichita’s perpetual beacon of hope, Troy Newman, promised Tiller’s head on a platter. But every attack on Tiller was thwarted. Hoping against hope Troy petitioned Kansas’s Medical Board to pull Tiller’s license. Poppycock! That simply would not happen. Tiller, acquitted of violating Kansas’s laws, was in no serious trouble with the medical board.

The David and Goliath routine was looking bad for David until an unknown champion appeared on the scene. God’s chosen instrument, with a single bullet to the braincase slew Goliath. Rather than take courage from this change of fortune, Troy and his camp ran the other way thinking “Boy, the Philistines are going to be pissed!”

Sweating bullets, Troy was the first to apologize to both the pro-aborts and pro-lifers. “And gee, we were so close to getting Tiller’s medical license pulled!”

Now that we have set the stage, let us examine the pre-text for why Troy and others renounce this shooters brave, unselfish act: Troy tells us that the shooter is a “coward” and a “vigilante.” We all know what a coward is but the definition of a vigilante is “any person who takes the law into his or her own hands, as by avenging a crime.”

We do not know if the shooter's motive was vengeance or if he was acting in defense of the pre-born. The definition for self-defense and defense of others is “the right for civilians acting on their own behalf to engage in violence for the sake of defending one's own life or the lives of others, including the use of deadly force.”

Self defense and the defense of others is justifiable homicide.

This defense is denied Tiller’s shooter as our laws do not recognize the humanity and worth of the pre-born. Those of us who do recognize the person of the Preborn should understand that the use of force is justifiable in protecting the pre-born children, but such is not the case.

In the posts that I have read from Troy and others they assume the shooter’s motive to be vengeance, rather than defensive action. Troy was quick to condemn Tiller’s shooter without knowing his true motive. You can stab a man’s character as surely as you shoot his person.

I proffer this fine distinction because it is important to hand-wringing soul-searching theologians sorting through the dainty innuendos, presuppositions, and new and old winds of doctrine.

But I do not believe the shooter’s motive to be important, as it amounts to defensive action no matter what his motive was.
Tiller was a serial killer. He killed the week he was killed, and like the punctual rape of every blessed day, he was scheduled to kill again. The shooter’s bullet, like David’s stone, stopped Tiller’s bloody hands cold.

But along with the death of George Tiller, is the toppling of the invincible baby-killing idol of aborticide.

Like the Munchkins in the Wizard of Oz, news of Tiller’s death was at first hard to believe. While many of us broke into a joyful song, others broke into a shameful retreat.

Ryan Hartley #fundie buffalobeast.com

Do you know what percentage of the atmosphere is actually effected by our presence on this rock? It’s like .05%! Not an opinion, fact.
We would have to shut the planet down for years just to make the slightest dent in a already tiny percentage. It’s like two fleas fighting over who owns the dog. Intelligent design is not an option either, the mathematical chances for the earth to exist like it is with us on it is impossible Trilions x trillions x tr…. Not an opinion, fact. Pro-choice should be called pro-death because you ARE KILLING A BABY not an opiion, fact. Aborting a fetus is nothing more than that. If you are OK with that than so be it.

Matt Barber #fundie christianpost.com

I'm never going to win a popularity contest. It's not my goal to be liked. I'll probably never be a "Fox News contributor" or even broadly recognized as a dutifully compliant cog within the greater, GOP-heavy "conservative" political wheel. That's because I say things like this: There is no political fix to America's death spiral. We are drowning in a turgid river of postmodern relativism. This is a spiritual problem, not a political problem. This is a worldview matter, not a partisan matter.

Hitherto it has been "progressives" alone dumping buckets of moral relativist poison into the Potomac. But, in the last decade or so, self-styled "conservatives" have likewise begun drinking the subjectivist Kool-Aid.

Libertine libertarianism has infected the conservative movement like a cancer. Situational ethics, driven by emotional, anecdotal sob stories, are used to justify every moral wrong as an absolute right. "Get off the social issues!" they demand. "Gay marriage? No problem."

These gun-toting, free-market "conservatives" (of which I'm both) grace us with beauties like this: "I'm a 'pro-choice,' 'pro-gay' conservative," or, "Yeah, I'm shacking up with my girlfriend, big deal."

Relativism blurs the fixed lines of demarcation between right and wrong, which leads to the abolition of absolute truth, which leads to pockets of moral anarchy, which leads to Barack Obama and Eric Holder deciding which laws to ignore and which laws to enforce, which leads to lawlessness, which leads to chaos.

Welcome to chaos.

Yes. The "social issues" matter.

The battle is not Republican vs. Democrat. Neither is it conservative vs. liberal. The battle precedes time itself. The battle is right vs. wrong. The battle is moral vs. immoral. The battle is truth vs. the lie.

The battle is between good and evil.

We've been playing political Ping-Pong for decades. We've been, as they say, rearranging the chairs on the Titanic while Democrats take the helm for a spell, and Republicans take the helm for a spell.

The reality is that both political parties have driven us into the iceberg, and then pranced off together, hand-in-hand, to play best-of-three racquetball at the congressional bathhouse.

While here at CPAC I met an interesting fellow by the name of Frank Mitchell. Frank founded the Memphis-based, classically conservative group: "A Shining City on a Hill." During our discussion, Frank said this: "There is no liberty without justice. Liberty without justice is only license."

Libertine libertarianism.

America cannot survive under a worldview that embraces unrestricted moral license. Such license destroys the individual. And such license destroys the nation.
"Liberty without justice is only license."

There is only one Arbiter of true justice. And justice is defined by Him, not by us. He sets the parameters. As both individuals, and as a nation, we are ill-advised to breach those parameters and well-served to maintain them.

America does not need a political fix. America needs a spiritual fix.

DoctorDefense #fundie scienceblogs.com

It's time for payback. Right-to-lifers talk about an "abortion war" but so far only the pro-choice side has sustained casualties. WAR means you shoot the enemy BUT IT ALSO MEANS THE ENEMY SHOOTS YOU.

It's time for COUNTERTERROR against right-to-lifers. Against ALL right-to-lifers.

I proclaim without apology that killing ANY AND ALL right-to-lifers will NOT be murder. It will be JUSTIFIABLE HOMICIDE provided it is done as a response to this. It will also be justifiable homicide if someone kills the CHILDREN of right-to-lifers.

Someone should have killed Paul Hill's wife (Karen) and kids (Justin, Gloria, and Joy) during the Clinton administration. AND Shelley Shannon's daughter Angelica. (SS was the FIRST right-to-lifer who shot Dr. Tiller, way back when.)

Gingi Edmonds #fundie gingiedmonds.com

George Tiller - the infamous late-term abortionist and medical director of Women's Health Care Services in Wichita, Kansas – was killed on May 31, 2009.

...The man chose his fate the moment he dismembered his first infant. I'm not embarrassed to say what the punishment for the crime is anymore than I'm embarrassed to admit that child killing is a crime.

Did I want him to be gunned down in church - even a hypocritical, Molech-worshiping fraud of a church like the one he was attending while shot? No. I would have much preferred him being tried and convicted in a court of law that is consistent with medical science and personhood as defined in our Constitution. We can prevent the atrocious acts of violence against abortionists by holding them accountable to their actions.

...Tiller was killed by a pro-choice act. Pro-lifers need make no apologies.

Jesus4mankind #fundie uk.youtube.com

People with 20/20 perception clearly see that sodomite pro-choice is a mental choice not governed by genetics such as skin color. Sodomites choose to be flavor proctologists & rug-doctors, it is a severe sickness of the mind (such as necrophilia is) that refuses to honestly look at how shameful they have sunk. Gayness is to bad taste what eating rotten meat is food poisoning.