Question from an atheist:
What a depressing belief system you subscribe to. Humankind is intrinsically evil? I don't buy it. Are we capable of evil? Sure. But we're also capable of good. For instance, while taking a walk one time, I saw a hummingbird on the road. I picked it up to get it out of danger, and I warmed it up (it was a cold day) in my hand. Eventually, it recovered from whatever shock it was in and it flew off. If I was intrinsically evil, then I would have smashed it, or I would have simply left it lying on the street. Your assertions make absolutely no sense.
Response:
So, how will you justify yourself on Judgment Day, when every secret sin comes out as evidence of your guilt, including your thought-life and the deeds you have done in darkness? Your sins are heinous in the sight of a holy God. The Bible says that they stir His just wrath (see John 3:36). What will you say? What would you think of a man who said, “Judge, I raped and murdered that woman, but I picked up a sick bird and didn’t kill it. You should therefore let me go”? In doing so, he somehow thinks he balances the scales of justice. He offers kindness to a sick bird as payment for raping and murdering a woman. What sort of twisted individual would he be to say that?
58 comments
Actually, some fundies tend to say they can do whatever the fuck they want, and as long as they still have faith and repent, they'll be fine.
"So, how will you justify yourself on Judgment Day, when every secret sin comes out as evidence of your guilt, including your thought-life and the deeds you have done in darkness?"
If anything is depressing, it's this kind of thinking. These people that still think they are intrinsically evil are fooling themselves. You may be so frightened that you think you deserve a horrible eternity of torment for being what you can't help to be. I assure you, you don't! How in the world could God be described as 'loving', if he wants to punish you so greatly! Is "love" treating people harshly and finding fault with the kindest person, and "hate" treating people tenderly and caring for them like a parent cares for their children?? I have more contempt for the people who have enslaved your mind than you.
How do you even get rape and murder out of helping a hummingbird?
@ Illuminatalie
Well considering that that's how they treat their children, thinking that's how god will treat them isn't much of a stretch.
Atheist: "Humans aren't all bad"
Christian: "Sinner! Oh, the destruction will be upon us quickly! Then who will be laughing! WHO!?"
And...did he just accuse this guy of being a murderer and a rapist?
"He offers kindness to a sick bird as payment for raping and murdering a woman. What sort of twisted individual would he be to say that?"
What is sick here is that you take it that a person trying to express a gentle and giving side to human nature is obviously trying to hide something, and your mind leaps to assume that it must be rape or murder. Seriously, I would call your insistence to bring such atrocious acts into that discussion more Freudian than anything else.
Ray Cumfart is another fucktard in the long list of fundie fucktards. He may look and seem like a regular, "normal" guy, but the reality is that he is a waste of space, his ignorance and delusion are a blight on all those unfortunate enough to be influenced by his insane ravings.
"How will I justify myself on Judgement Day?"
Maybe something like: "Well, geez, Yah, it seemed pretty unlikey that the ultra-complex, gargantuan universe you put us in just happened to be run by a "Nemesis" figure that existed solely to enact posthumous vengeance on behalf of GED-possessing, blue-collar Calvinist workers whose egos were bruised by people who believed differently."
Or maybe I'll just try to get him to say his name backwards, which will banish him to the 5th dimension.
It's more like "I, who have brought suffering and unhappiness into the world, slaughtered the innocents and mocked the wretched, judge you worthy of eternal suffering because you have masturbated! Mwa, ha ha, ha!
Therefore, your god is an arsehole, and I wouldn't worship him even if he did exist.
Well that makes sense.
Consider, however, how few people actually rape and murder women.
And consider your response makes no sense.
"So, how will you justify yourself on Judgment Day..."
IF there is a Judgement Day I would let Jehovah the Blood Bringer know in no uncertain terms that I have no intention of justifying myself to Him. In fact I strongly believe that Jehovah needs to justify Himself to ME for the century after century after century of unrelenting bloodshed either commanded by Him or perpetrated in His name.
The only person I need to justify myself to is myself. Anyone else who receives justifications from me does so purely because I CHOOSE to justify myself to them.
Of course! Atheists are all murderers and rapists!
Hey, Mr. Frog, can you keep it down? I'm trying to rape someone over here and you're distracting me from business.
Ray Cumfart Hadron, you bastard! I almost choked to death on my toke. I did, however, cough up a lung.
Ray Comfort:
"So, how will you justify yourself on Judgment Day, when every secret sin comes out as evidence of your guilt, including your thought-life and the deeds you have done in darkness? Your sins are heinous in the sight of a holy God. The Bible says that they stir His just wrath (see John 3:36)"
Louis Tully:
"Gozer the Traveler. He will come in one of the pre-chosen forms. During the rectification of the Vuldrini, the traveler came as a large and moving Torg! Then, during the third reconciliation of the last of the McKetrick supplicants, they chose a new form for him: that of a giant Slor! Many Shuvs and Zuuls knew what it was to be roasted in the depths of the Slor that day, I can tell you!"
Ray's ideas have all the crazy of Ghostbusters with almost none of the entertainment value.
Ray, how will you explain yourself on judgement day?
How will you follow the real savior and not this false prophet "Jesus"?
You are bound for the fire ray unless you renounce jesus.
The whole "good deeds don't make up for bad deeds" argument has been done to death already. Most court systems in civilized nations don't work that way. In the absence of mandatory sentencing laws, judges (at least in the USA) take both mitigating and aggravating factors into account when sentencing criminal defendants.
Apparently, your god does not. He just damns everyone for all eternity based purely on something as arbitrary as a belief.
Much as I am loathe to defend Ray Comfort, I think you guys who are asking if he accused the guy who asked the original question of "raping and murdering a woman" missed an imporant phrase in Ray's answer:
"What would you think of a man who said , “Judge, I raped and murdered that woman, but I picked up a sick bird and didn’t kill it. You should therefore let me go”? "
He was referring to a hypothetical defendant in a hypothetical courtroom.
His crazy, however, does not change because of that. :P
Ray, seriously, just because you rape and kill women doesn't mean everyuone else does. It's not a 'given'. For instance, I've never done that and seriously doubt I ever will (particularly since I'm gay). To assume that people are intrinsically evil speaks largely of your world view. Either that you feel overwhelmingly guilty or that you feel that nobody else could possibly be as innocent as you are. Both sentiments are disturbingly naive not to mention dystopian. People are mostly good. Science, or a bit of observation if you prefer, prove it. If people were mostly evil then society would collapse. More often than not people would do things to harm other people. Because society has not collapsed and acts of harm between fellow human beings, while frequent, are far below the majority of people acting evil you can see that people are good in general.
I know you don't care because you willingly believe against all available evidence that bananas are god's Coke cans, but there's plenty of evidence there if you'd only let go of your depressing and dystopian outlook on life that religion has set upon you and look at humanity without blood colored glasses.
@ Dark_Lord_Prime:
It's an implied accusation. There is no need for a "hypothetical" situation in which crimes that heinous were held against caring for a sick bird; Ray Comfort is implying that whatever the atheist's sins are, they are equal to rape and murder.
Either that, or that all sins are equal to rape and murder, and since he's accusing the atheist of being a sinner, he's accusing the atheist of being guilty of the equivalent of rape and murder.
Ray, haven't you considered that those who rape and kill usually don't care what happens to hummingbirds, or anything else, for that matter?. Because there is something called motivation and empathy, something about which Jesus spoke extensively in Matthew. You don't even know your own Bible.
So, how will you justify yourself on Judgment Day, when every secret sin comes out as evidence of your guilt, including your thought-life and the deeds you have done in darkness?
So I'm fucked no matter what. I can go to church to praise God, but as he has not seen fit to show his presence to me, it's all a sham. I can deny my homosexuality, but he knows that i really love men. I can accept Jesus, but he knows that I just see that as a convenient get out of jail free card. So...why should I bother?
This is what I love about fundies. It jumps to Judgement Day and being on trial for the rape and murder of a woman.
Christians are quite capable of murder. The bible in fact condones spousal rape. But because you pretend to be rightous souls you get saved.
It's simply a case of "I'm better than you are"....
That... is the most stupid, retarded, and offensive reply I've ever seen from a fundamentalist. Basically:
Atheist: I believe people are capable of good, and are not intrinsically bad. Let me provide you an example of something I did that disproves your point.
Ray Comfail: You're a rapist and Jesus will throw you into hell.
.......
Where does it say that he raped an killed a woman? And Judgement Day is Ray's fantasy, not the atheist's. How is Ray going to defend himself? "I was snotty and came with false witness towards one of your creation, but I did it in your name."
To answer your hipotethic question, Ray... How about this: "God, I'm sorry. I tried to be good and to never intentionally hurt people. Do what you will, 'cause there's no way in Hell anybody could stop your omnipotent hand."
You see? It has everything: apology, submissivnes, ass-licking... Everything.
Ray Comfort is a HUGE tool.
Ray, you honestly believe that there is an invisible man that lives in the sky that knows everything you ever do and everything you ever think?
How fucking stupid can you be?
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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