["You're not aiding anyone at all, you're only making it miserable for everyone else. If your child had been raped and had become pregnant, you lot would think far differently. If you didn't give her the abortion you're all selfish, brainwashed monsters."]
If my child were raped and became pregnant I would think no differently. She would still be carrying a human being. It would not be selfish of me to prevent her from getting an abortion. She probably wouldn’t think of having one in the first place because she’ll respect human life. My grandchild would not deserve to die because of how they were conceived. She’d have all the help and love she would need in recovering and in raising the child. Abortion is permanent if she one day realized she would’ve like to have kept the baby there would be nothing she could do about it. I would never want my daughter to go through a thing like that. To feel the pain of that kind of regret.
I’m sorry you felt the need to be so hateful to people who want to save lives. Maybe you just don’t understand the base of our position.
37 comments
Meh...
This is sound and respectable even if I disagree with it. He's not saying that rape is unimportant or impossible like some idiots. He's just saying that since he considers a fetus to have a right to life it being a product of rape doesn't change that. That is a logically consistent position unlike the false-face compromise put forward by most pro-life politicians who make an exception for that, often for that and "incest" even if the incest was consensual this appeals to the fear of birth defects yet these people don't usually call for a general right to abort due to increased risk of birth defects.
I respect this man's position. But I firmly believe that as it is the woman's body the fetus requires permission to be there.
As abortion like everything has effects there is more to consider than just whether it fits in with ideals of rights, so under certain circumstances I could support a ban on abortion such as if we needed it in order to avoid a population catastrophe or mandatory abortions if necessary but only under the most dire of circumstances, so other options should be mostly exhausted. In a non-societal catastrophe situation it should be her right to choose.
I would never force my child to carry a rapists chhild. I would never want my daughter to go through a thing like that. To feel the pain of that kind of regret.
I’m sorry you felt the need to be so hateful to people who want to save lives. Maybe you just don’t understand the base of our position.
It would not be selfish of me to prevent her from getting an abortion
Yes it would, you want to take away her right to choose because you value the "life" of an embryo above hers.
Google "The only moral abortion is my abortion", o-s-p-l, and you'll see why we think you'll think differently if you (or your daughter) were the one who was pregnant.
That grandchild of yours would also be the grandchild of the rapist's parents. Would you feel this much love towards them?
We want to save lives too, ya know, the lives of the people who are actually alive now. Maybe you just don't understand the base of our position.
How you feel is irrelevant. Should your daughter become pregnant by any means (rape, incest, she wanted to see what sex was like), she has the RIGHT to make her own decision about what to do. She wants to run off and abort a clump of cells, that's her right. She wants to raise the baby? Her right.
Yes, abortion is permanent, but you making her life hellish with ranting about your "right to life" ideology will just mean you lose your daughter.
I remember something a teenage girl said to me when the subject of teen pregnancy and abortion came up.
"I would rather get an abortion and live my life a pariah; spat on, hated, shunned, and denied a fair chance at anything for as long as people knew about it than I would keep the child and watch it starve because we'd both still be treated like monsters."
How about putting your ideals where your mouth is and making the world a better place to raise a child in rather than a sadistic choice between several different kinds of suffering and scorn?
"My grandchild would not deserve to die because of how they were conceived."
That's the kind of reasoning you get from anyone who *truly* believes that abortion is "murdering babies."
As opposed to those who *say* that's what they believe, but actually they want abortion to be prohibited for women who got pregnant from CONSENSUAL sex; they mustn't be allowed any opportunity to "evade the consequences" of their "whorishness."
But women who got pregnant through any form of *rape* can still be allowed abortions, since they got the sex that resulted in the conception *forced* upon them, so they're "still good girls!"
"My grandchild would not deserve to die because of how they were conceived."
And there is the underlying psycological flaw that really governs this obsession.
"My grandchild!" "My grandchild!"
It's all about the fear that some descendant will cut off their bloodline, and some grand genetic contribution that exists solely in their head will be lost to the world.
"Well, that's the news from Lake Wobegon, where all the women are strong, all the men are good looking, and all the children are above average." - Garrison Keillor
I'm very pro-babies rights, but to be honest I'm not sure how I would feel about having a rapist's grandchild. Having two kids already I know perfectly well how much they can take after their parents, and how evident that is as they grow up. It would (I imagine) be difficult to see the rapist in the child's face and actions. On the other hand, I'd love to be a grandfather, and for all i know the child would grow up to be the best thing that happened to the family.
Happily however the really difficult decision would be up to my daughter, and in fact if she did keep it my personal issues and difficulties would pale into utter insignificance next to hers. My job would be to support her, not selfishly whiiiine about how it affects me and my beliefs like I'm the important one.
Why don't you folks save the lives of actual human beings, you know, those embryos which grew into people? Feeding the hungry, housing the homeless, health-care for all, that sort of thing. Come on, Snappies, you can do that, huh?
"You just don't understand the base of our position"
Yes we do. It's based on the fact that you think like toddlers who believe their stuffed animals have thoughts and feelings. An embryo/fetus is not a baby. Your daughter would only feel that pain if you've brainwashed her to believe otherwise.
I'm sorry you would feel the need to do that to your daughter if she were in that unfortunate situation.
I suspect there are many positions that you don't understand, pro-choice being among them.
The decision is up to your daughter. It's not for you to decide.
To feel the pain of that kind of regret.
How does that compare to the pain of rape?
Maybe you just don’t understand the base of our position.
I do understand. Very well. Sex outside marriage or for purposes other than procreation is wrong and must have painful consequences.
Translation: Vulvas are icky. They are vile sin-magnets that suck in innocent penises from off the streets and out of the alleys, and whoever goes out in public while having one must be punished with rape, pregnancy, painful childbirth, and lifelong stigma.
I find the lack of reference to adoption to be very telling, here. This person doesn't just think that his or her daughter should be put through a physically and mentally traumatizing pregnancy from rape, but that if she is raped and impregnated, she is branded a mother for life, with absolutely no say in the matter. The rapist is the one who decides her entire life for her, along with her parents. She merely serves as an incubator, and later a slave.
You think you are saving lives this way?
Your position is completely indefensible.
I'm a child of rape to, back then, a teen mom. Her family pitched in EVERYTHING to make sure I got a decent upbringing while she finished high school and then college.
Am I grateful to be alive? Absolutely. But if she decided to abort back then, I can't judge because 1.) I wouldn't exist to form said opinion and 2.) it will always be the pregnant woman's choice.
Also, are you willing to make the sacrifices my family (who are pro-choice) did to ensure a good future for both your daughter and grandkid? Or as I suspect, force her to stay home and care for it?
Is that someone saying that they'd prevent their daughter from getting an abortion if she's raped? I'm out.
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If she wants to keep it, let her. If she doesn't, let her.
If a parent denies their underage daughter an abortion when she wants one that's pretty evil. If she has a baby she doesn't want and regrets having it there's nothing she can do about it, either, dumb ass.
Maybe a minor who was raped wouldn't want to get an abortion and I'm sure heavy doses of brainwashing and guilt-tripping would go a long way to prevent her from choosing one. But there would always be the chance she would not want to carry a pregnancy to term. Then her options are to run away and get an abortion, try to self abort, or seek out an illegal abortion. And none of those are safe or good options.
Apparently this asshat also expects the daughter to raise a rapists's baby. Parents are not owed grandchildren, sorry.
@ TheReasonator: There is nothing respectable about this dickwad's position. They can't fathom why a woman would consider an abortion and believe it's only a negative thing while carrying a pregnancy to term is always a positive. They're throwing their own hypothetical child under the bus. And without even considering that if the situation were real they may think differently. Not even going to touch on your gross theorizing on illegal/forced abortions. Though, if we wish to decrease the population we can always start with vasectomizing the males.
@ Deep Search
Why do you assume they can't fathom why a woman would want an abortion?
I can fathom why someone might want to kill their teenager, that doesn't mean I have to support making it legal to do so.
Pro-life people think that the right of a fetus to be alive should outweigh the right of the woman to control her body. I disagree, but our disagreement has nothing to do with any inability to fathom.
Based on what they say: "I would never want my daughter to go through a thing like that. To feel the pain of that kind of regret." In their mind getting an abortion is only a negative, traumatic thing. They assume that a woman will have pain and regret and that the abortion will be a bad choice while having a baby will be the only good choice. They say they are being selfless if they "protect" a pregnancy by preventing a minor from getting an abortion. If they comprehend why women choose abortion and are happy with their choice they don't give any indicators.
And I am well aware that the anti-abortion crowd places the potential life of an embryo/fetus over the bodily autonomy and the lives of women. And all the while crowing about how they are the true life savers and protectors of humanity.
@ Deep Search
Emotional reactions vary. A woman may have an abortion and feel like it was the best decision she ever made. Another woman may regret it for the rest of her life. Some women may even feel so guilty they choose to end their lives.
So it's not entirely wrong that she may regret it. Still should be her choice though.
I am with TheReasonater. I don't agree with what the poster is saying, but its not crazy enough to warrant a WTF?
I will say though that the poster seems excessively certain that his daughter shares his point of view. If she does find herself facing an unwanted pregnancy (a situation I would not wish on anyone), she would not be able to tell her parents that she was contemplating an abortion. That sounds like an agonizing position to be in.
But hey, that's a small price to pay to preserve your self-righteousness, isn't it oh-snap?
I am well aware of these things. But this clod, like so man anti-choicers, spouts that a woman will undoubtedly regret having an abortion. They give no indication that they comprehend that a woman choosing an abortion will be happy with her decision because it is the best choice for her.
Every woman's experience is unique and she can feel any number of emotions about her abortion. But the vast majority of women do not regret or experience trauma as a result. The "pro-life" crowd goes the extra mile to make women feel guilt ridden, shameful, and horrible for choosing abortion, though.
@TheReasonator:
Pro-lifers also tend to think the life of the unborn fetus is more important than the life of the currently-living woman carrying it.
After all, they never consider - or even acknowledge - the very real possibility of medical complications like ectopic pregnancy, which often endanger the mother's health and/or life (and generally, that of the fetus as well). Of those that do, a disturbing number of them seem to think that it's an "acceptable risk."
Such selfishness. I'm the child of a woman who never wanted me, and she ruined my life in revenge for ruining hers by being born. Don't give me this load of sanctimonious shit. The life you're "saving" will be miserable (and probably short) but you don't give a fuck, as long as you can feel warm and fuzzy about yourself!
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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