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persiana #fundie canadaka.net

Go back and check Hardy's stats. Most women are raped by people they know... so there goes your "first impressions" theory. Besides which... rape isn't about sex, it's about power. Men don't rape the women they're attracted to.

I'm not forgetting at all. The point I am trying to make is the very same one you're getting at.

PEOPLE PREY UPON THOSE THEY PERCEIVE TO BE WEAK.

Who are these people? Well, the elderly are one, yes. But aging isn't a choice. Clothing on the other hand IS. Dressing like a skank comes across as having low self-esteem & little self-respect. Its easy enough to make a victim of someone who is already one by their own choice of lifestyle. A woman who is a whore & entertains many men nightly, is far less likely to be believed when she cries rape, than one who doesn't give herself out at every turn. Get it yet?


Just like you said, most women are raped by people they know. And many of these girls are either known to have low self-esteem, known to be defenseless, or known to be sluts. Get it yet?


WHY then, are these women who demand equality, at the same time crying helpless when something does happen to them? ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR OWN LIFE.
...
I'm JUST trying to say that women who get treated in a manner according to their own actions and behavior, really need to realize that there ARE things that they can do as preventative measures. And yes, I do feel that if a woman walks unescorted to her car, in a dimly lit underground parking lot, and she's parked on the far side, that IF she DOES get attacked, then yes she is partially responsible. She did have options available to her, to prevent such a thing from occuring, the major one being requesting an escort. As I said previously, we do not live in an age of ignorance.

Persiana #fundie canadaka.net

Sexual harassment in SOME cases isn't about women inviting comments. In many cases, I agree 100%. I do however, think that there are also SOME women out there, who DO invite comments. You can't dress like a hooker, and expect to be treated like a lady.

Wow, you could be an Australian Cleric. Some girls who dress slutty are experimenting, some don't want to be talked to by like a lady, and some might wear the t-shirt "Just because I'm a slut doesn't mean I'll sleep with you" ouch.

If only the gay boys took to such reasoning. He was wearing a tank top, I could just tell he wanted it. Nope, not going to fly. Want to have sex? get consent. A bikini does not signify consent.

Your reasoning might work except your examples are lacking.

If girls who are wearing t-shirts and self-proclaiming themselves sluts, they have little respect for themselves and can hardly cry unfair when they get treated like a slut.

I never said bikini's signified consent. However, if you're 14 years old with breasts just popping out of your chest and you're running around in hooker boots and booty shorts where half your ass hangs out (No, not just short shorts, I mean booty shorts where half your ass really IS hanging out) and a bikini top or some other fragile excuse for clothing, and you get spoken to with disrespect, and you get treated with disrespect, then my point is that they can't really place the entire blame on the other party. The disrespect began with themselves.

Yes, some girls are just experimenting and some quickly learn that isn't the way they want to be seen. I see 12/13/14 year olds walking around here, wearing stiletto boots, miniskirts (and I mean *MINI*) and crop tops with their bellies hanging out & these miniskirts aren't even like the 80's miniskirts, these are mini on the leg & mini on the hips. I quite literally have underwear which covers more than these skirts do.

Am I saying "all the blame rests with the victims" no, not by a long shot. However, like I said before, common sense should prevail. If a woman makes herself an easy target for lewd remarks and sexual harassment, common sense should speak to reason, and she should realize that if she dressed less slutty, she'd get treated with more respect. We don't live in the age of ignorance. If a woman is working late & its dark outside & her car is parked on the far side of a dimly lit underground parking lot, is she to blame if she gets attacked? No, but YES there are preventative methods available in most of these instances, to keep stuff like this from happening. Ie, have a security guard escort you to your car.

Basically you reap what you sow.

If you disrespect yourself, and show it through your own method of dress, you cannot expect respect from others.

If you ignore common sense for dangerous situations, then yes you ARE partially at fault for the fact that it even happened and YES there WERE ways that you could've prevented it from happening, in many instances.

Women want "equal status" except they want to hang onto their "vulnerable" female helpless status at the same time? I don't think so. Physically we are no match for most men, that is fact. Mentally we could be equal if we'd stop placing ALL the blame elsewhere & started using our brains and common

Persiana #fundie canadaka.net

I never said bikini's signified consent. However, if you're 14 years old with breasts just popping out of your chest and you're running around in hooker boots and booty shorts where half your ass hangs out (No, not just short shorts, I mean booty shorts where half your ass really IS hanging out) and a bikini top or some other fragile excuse for clothing, and you get spoken to with disrespect, and you get treated with disrespect, then my point is that they can't really place the entire blame on the other party. The disrespect began with themselves.

Again sorry, this does not signify disrepect on the part of the girls or the apropriatness of a fifty year old man to offer his services.


I suppose it depends on the individual, really. There's the girls who are simply too young & ignorant, and rather unfortunately have parents who simply don't care... they usually grow into young adults who also don't care, it has a rather snowball effect. There's also the 'rebels' ...the girls who do come from perfectly good homes, who rebel against their parents morals and do so by being as scantily clad as they can without getting arrested for public indecency. Women and girls who dress "nicely" are fine. Women and girls who dress "slutty" and "Skanky" are not so fine. I do not look at them & think "Wow, they look fine!" although you as a male perhaps are doing so without even realizing how shockingly low these girls self-esteem truly is. Healthy sexuality does not mean that they have to sleep with everybody who pays them a compliment, nor does "slut" equal healthy sexuality. A girl who wears a "slut" t-shirt and takes a 50 year old guy up on his offers, isn't healthy. I rather prefer the girls who can actually realize the inappropriateness of the fifty year old man offering his services that you mentioned, than the ones who don't. Both types of girls exist but when they dress the same way, how is the 50 year old guy supposed to be able to tell them apart? Get it yet? Its a learning curve. 50 year old guy has probably learned that he has better luck with skanks than classy women, so those are the ones he offers his services to.

Persiana #sexist canadaka.net

I am trying to point out that women need to accept blame for their own actions.

If a woman walks to her car in a dimly lit underground parking lot, UNESCORTED then yes she has KNOWINGLY PUT HERSELF IN THAT POSITION.

I'm not saying this excuses her rapist, nor am I saying that its her fault the rapist raped her.

I AM saying that it is her fault that she put herself into a vulnerable position.

I AM saying that women have choices and preventative methods that they can take.

I AM saying that women who choose NOT to take these steps, are knowingly putting themselves in a position where they could get raped.

But no doubt "because they're female" they're what... too stupid to accept control of their own lives? They should be able to walk around, female, and unescorted, and make poor decisions, and not have consequences?

Damn.... if I could live life without consequence... what a life THAT would be.


You're right. I didn't realize how wrong it was to walk to my car all by myself. :(

Whatever was I thinking?


Clearly, you weren't thinking.

That's my point. We don't live in an age of ignorance. Like USCAdad pointed out, this IS our reality.

Obviously you would choose to be a victim, just to uphold your "I can be everything a man can be" ideals.... you would walk to your car by yourself. You would knowingly put yourself in a vulnerable position....

Good grief, I actually had some respect for you until now.

Persiana #fundie canadaka.net


[ You appear to be advocating conformity. ]


Like I said in my previous post, which you seem to have missed. There's a LOT that you miss, isn't there Lily?

One does not have to dress a certain way to be a rebel or a free thinker.

Again, you are the one with the "majority" perspective in this particular debate. I would definitely represent the minority, in voicing my opinion that women need to take far more control of their destinies instead of placing the blame on their circumstance everywhere but themselves. FAR too few women look at their lives, and look at how they could have prevented things from happening. Its far too easier to tout the weak female fanfare & put the blame with the man.

Nevermind that the woman was dressed like a slut. Nevermind that she walked unescorted to her car. Nevermind that her ass was hanging out of her skirt. Nevermind that she completely ignored the reality that we live in. No, she has no control, no responsiblity over her own destiny, she couldn't possibly have presented a more positive image of herself in public, she couldn't possibly have asked a security guard to escort her to her car, she couldn't possibly have locked her doors & windows while at home alone. No, she's the helpless female... that on weekends, goes out to demand equal rights.

I say bullshit. If women want equal rights they need to stop falling back on the "weak female" crap whenever it suits them, and accept responsibility for their own life, for their own destiny, for their own situations.

Typical weak female that you are Lily, you keep putting all the blame on the man. NOWHERE have I said that none of the blame lies with them.

[ You seem to be forgetting - it's not only the "slutty girls" getting raped/assaulted. Grannies in nursing homes and other regular women probably get attacked with greater frequency. ]


I'm not forgetting at all. The point I am trying to make is the very same one you're getting at.

PEOPLE PREY UPON THOSE THEY PERCEIVE TO BE WEAK.

Who are these people? Well, the elderly are one, yes. But aging isn't a choice. Clothing on the other hand IS. Dressing like a skank comes across as having low self-esteem & little self-respect. Its easy enough to make a victim of someone who is already one by their own choice of lifestyle. A woman who is a whore & entertains many men nightly, is far less likely to be believed when she cries rape, than one who doesn't give herself out at every turn. Get it yet?

Just like you said, most women are raped by people they know. And many of these girls are either known to have low self-esteem, known to be defenseless, or known to be sluts. Get it yet?

You're right, rape is about power. Power over the powerless. This is what I"ve been trying to drill into your thick skull all evening. Women are NOT powerless! Women DO have the choice to control their own destiny. Women DO have the choice to put forth a much more positive image, one that shows that they are empowered, and comfortable in their skin, and not afraid to draw attention if attacked. Women DO have the choice to ask security guards to escort them to their cars at night, women DO have the choice to lock their doors and windows.

WHY then, are these women who demand equality, at the same time crying helpless when something does happen to them? ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR OWN LIFE.

Get it yet?

I'm JUST trying to say that women who get treated in a manner according to their own actions and behavior, really need to realize that there ARE things that they can do as preventative measures. And yes, I do feel that if a woman walks unescorted to her car, in a dimly lit underground parking lot, and she's parked on the far side, that IF she DOES get attacked, then yes she is partially responsible. She did have options available to her, to prevent such a thing from occuring, the major one being requesting an escort. As I said previously, we do not live in an age of ignorance.

Persiana #fundie canadaka.net

[ I thought you were somewhere in your 20s. It's fairly typical of the younger generations (and I include myself there, as most "feminists" are older than I am) to feel the job's been done, without realizing what all they did for us. And no, there's still more to be done. Wages might not matter to you, and it's great that you're in a position where your work is values, but that's not the case for everyone.

I just reread your last line... sexual harassment isn't about women inviting comments. I thought we were long past the time when we blamed the victim. ]


Lily in feeling as if the job is done, I'm not simply disregarding what has been accomplished. I'm not unaware of what all they did for us at all, I'm very aware of it. Yes there is probably stuff that can still be done, but I disagree that it needs to be dealt with in an extremist manner, by extremists. If on individual levels women are unhappy with their work, we have the voice & we have the power now to do something about it. Sitting & bitching isn't doing anything. Change jobs, or report the issue to the higher powers, and if necessary, report the issue to people outside of the company. Crying "woe is me" and doing nothing, doesn't fix the problem either.

Sexual harassment in SOME cases isn't about women inviting comments. In many cases, I agree 100%. I do however, think that there are also SOME women out there, who DO invite comments. You can't dress like a hooker, and expect to be treated like a lady.

[ Wow, you could be an Australian Cleric. Some girls who dress slutty are experimenting, some don't want to be talked to by like a lady, and some might wear the t-shirt "Just because I'm a slut doesn't mean I'll sleep with you" ouch.

If only the gay boys took to such reasoning. He was wearing a tank top, I could just tell he wanted it. Nope, not going to fly. Want to have sex? get consent. A bikini does not signify consent. ]


Your reasoning might work except your examples are lacking.

If girls who are wearing t-shirts and self-proclaiming themselves sluts, they have little respect for themselves and can hardly cry unfair when they get treated like a slut.

I never said bikini's signified consent. However, if you're 14 years old with breasts just popping out of your chest and you're running around in hooker boots and booty shorts where half your ass hangs out (No, not just short shorts, I mean booty shorts where half your ass really IS hanging out) and a bikini top or some other fragile excuse for clothing, and you get spoken to with disrespect, and you get treated with disrespect, then my point is that they can't really place the entire blame on the other party. The disrespect began with themselves.

[ Again sorry, this does not signify disrepect on the part of the girls or the apropriatness of a fifty year old man to offer his services ]

I suppose it depends on the individual, really. There's the girls who are simply too young & ignorant, and rather unfortunately have parents who simply don't care... they usually grow into young adults who also don't care, it has a rather snowball effect. There's also the 'rebels' ...the girls who do come from perfectly good homes, who rebel against their parents morals and do so by being as scantily clad as they can without getting arrested for public indecency. Women and girls who dress "nicely" are fine. Women and girls who dress "slutty" and "Skanky" are not so fine. I do not look at them & think "Wow, they look fine!" although you as a male perhaps are doing so without even realizing how shockingly low these girls self-esteem truly is. Healthy sexuality does not mean that they have to sleep with everybody who pays them a compliment, nor does "slut" equal healthy sexuality. A girl who wears a "slut" t-shirt and takes a 50 year old guy up on his offers, isn't healthy. I rather prefer the girls who can actually realize the inappropriateness of the fifty year old man offering his services that you mentioned, than the ones who don't. Both types of girls exist but when they dress the same way, how is the 50 year old guy supposed to be able to tell them apart? Get it yet? Its a learning curve. 50 year old guy has probably learned that he has better luck with skanks than classy women, so those are the ones he offers his services to.


Yes, some girls are just experimenting and some quickly learn that isn't the way they want to be seen. I see 12/13/14 year olds walking around here, wearing stiletto boots, miniskirts (and I mean *MINI*) and crop tops with their bellies hanging out & these miniskirts aren't even like the 80's miniskirts, these are mini on the leg & mini on the hips. I quite literally have underwear which covers more than these skirts do.

Am I saying "all the blame rests with the victims" no, not by a long shot. However, like I said before, common sense should prevail. If a woman makes herself an easy target for lewd remarks and sexual harassment, common sense should speak to reason, and she should realize that if she dressed less slutty, she'd get treated with more respect. We don't live in the age of ignorance. If a woman is working late & its dark outside & her car is parked on the far side of a dimly lit underground parking lot, is she to blame if she gets attacked? No, but YES there are preventative methods available in most of these instances, to keep stuff like this from happening. Ie, have a security guard escort you to your car.


Basically you reap what you sow.

If you disrespect yourself, and show it through your own method of dress, you cannot expect respect from others.

If you ignore common sense for dangerous situations, then yes you ARE partially at fault for the fact that it even happened and YES there WERE ways that you could've prevented it from happening, in many instances.

Women want "equal status" except they want to hang onto their "vulnerable" female helpless status at the same time? I don't think so. Physically we are no match for most men, that is fact. Mentally we could be equal if we'd stop placing ALL the blame elsewhere & started using our brains and common sense.


[ Well, I couldn't dissagree with you more. I have a great deal of respect for women with healthy sexualities and the strength to be themselves... that is respect. That doesn't mean that they want to be abused or that every lad is in their market. Raping a slut doesn't mean that you're man enough to deserve her. ]

I too have a great deal of respect for women who have healthy sexualities and the strength to be themselves. There IS a difference, however, between a woman with a healthy sexuality, and a woman who is insecure & needy for attention, and dresses herself in a manner that ensures she gets the attention whether its positive or negative. I don't know what kind of world you might live in, but where I live "slut" is not a complimentary term.