(This person started a poll thread on torture asking if you would torture terrorist's family members to stop a bombing. When another member objected to torture under any circumstances, this was their response.)
We are way past justification, I don't care about your ideology, your morals or lack of them. Your putting terrorists rights over the rights of the many. Although I would not derive pleasure from it I say torture the 5yo child of terrorists, bomb their villages. When you know who did a suicide bomb and they are from a village or city that supports terror then bomb it. Your way is a limp dick way of doing nothing. Your in a mud fight if you like to admit it or not and you want to fight by not getting mud on yourself. Its not very bright way of fighting and will end up killing more people. By doing nothing blood will be on your hands like it or not.
36 comments
"Although I would not derive pleasure from it I say torture the 5yo child of terrorists, bomb their villages"
That's what Nazis did. Iranians do it too. And communists.
"Your putting terrorists rights over the rights of the many."
One, we're actually putting the rights of complete innocents over absolutely nothing. Two, wrong "Your" dumbass.
If you torture five-year-olds, then you're a terrorist, and your five-year-old will be tortured next.
Should we torture Dear Jr's family, and the family of McVeigh, and the village where he grew up/lived?
It was Dubbya's war in Iraq that helped create the Daesh, and they'd love it if the US launched a new war on that area, as more people would be radicalized and join them. Treating innocent people with respect usually make them inclined to help you. Treating innocent people like terrorists usually make them inclined to join the terrorists.
Britain banned the use of torture during WW 2, for two very good reasons:
1, We'd lose the moral high ground. We're far to good to descend to the level of the Nazi's, and
2. It was considered ineffective as a means of gathering intelligence. A tortured person will either hold out, or more likely say whatever the prisoner thinks that the torturer wants to hear. Torture is the least effective method of gathering reliable intelligence according to all the experts
Google the name Marcus McDilda. He was a US pilot, captured by the Japanese, and tortured. They were trying to find out how many more A-bombs the US had. He told them 100, and that Tokyo and Kyoto were next. This is believed to have played a large role in their decision to surrender when they did. The thing is, McDilda had no fucking clue what he was talking about. He just told them what he thought would end the torture.
Torture is ineffective at best, and counter-productive at worse. And that's completely ignoring the moral implications of it. ISIS tortures and murders people. We are civilized, and better than them, or at least we should be.
The thing is, I don't think a child actually has any vital information. So there is literally no logical reason to torture them. And even then, I doubt it would actually get any concrete information, since torture is extremely ineffective.
Please remember, terrorists are made, not born. Your way of doing it will (1) create far more terrorists by their outrage than we could stop by torture, and (2) create a far greater justification in their minds for killing us, as we will, rightly, be considered to be sub-human animals.
If the terrorist is willing to bomb civilians, then torturing their family isn't going to make them cough up any information. All they would have to do is remain silent or feed their interrogator false information and their mission would succeed.
And in the process the idiot torturers would be creating easy propaganda for the terrorists and their sympathisers. "These evil people will even stoop to torturing innocent children!"
So let's say we do it your way, and torture, murder, and rape our way through the entire civilian population in countries we dislike: At which point do we go back to being humane?
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People like vicar-chan are legitimately scary to Ibuki. She can never tell whether they actually believe the reasons they give, or they just want an excuse to be able to hurt people without repercussions.
Considering that they are advocating the use of torture on small children, Ibuki's guessing that this guy in particular's probably just a sadist who wants to torment someone smaller and weaker than he is.
@Creedence Leonore Gielgud,
Or they can just look at a more modern example, John McCain.
Firstly, torturing children of terrorists is not torturing terrorists. It's a great way to make terrorists though.
Second, children? Fucking children?
Heres another lovely gem from him Vicarejoe: "Splitting hairs, I think your trying to make it palatable. Torture is not or should not be used for enjoyment, it should be done to yield information.I don't need to know most of what I want to know before I would use torture . Do you want to hear something that is bad that is disgusting? listen to the children crying after the bombing, and the child sitting next to his dead mother"
http://www.city-data.com/forum/politics-other-controversies/2552760-would-you-torture-terrorist-if-you-17.html#ixzz44DWWbxsB
A dumb question. If you know a terrorist is going to bomb something, torturing isn't necessary - you just go after the terrorist. If you're killing or bombing bystanders just because they're in the same town, that puts you in the "shoot some random black man because you were mugged by a black man" category.
"We are way past justification, I don't care about your ideology, your morals or lack of them."
"Your" right. You are way past justification, headed the wrong way. Of course you don't care about another person's ideology or morals. They're not you, right?
So if you killed that "5yo child" while torturing it, would you then eat it, or let it go to waste? /sarcasm
You're a monster.
@Kanna.
It could be far worse than you suggest, as it runs the risk of creating terrorists (or at least revolutionaries) out of non-Muslim American citizens.
Does Vicarjoe really expect every (well armed) American citizen to stand by as their democratic government carries out atrocities in their name?
For fuck's sake, Vicarjoe, you gibbering idiot: Part of the reason more and more people are readying for war, and willingly, is because terrorists are attacking civilian targets.
Torturing children for the crimes of their parents is a step beyond even that. Not only is it morally reprehensible, but it would also fail if your goal is to stop terrorists. NO. Such actions would create more terrorists, destroy morale among the public at home and abroad, and put the lie to any claim that Western ideals are at all superior to even the most backward and barbaric interpretation of Shari'a in existence.
If we, with our great claims to progress, are permitted to degenerate into howling sadism, then the war is already over and we lost - and when historians look back to determine just how this kind of war destroyed us, they will all be able to point squarely at this specific time when we jettisoned all our beliefs and began, as a matter of policy, to act even more cruel and stupid than the people we're fighting.
If our governments do that, and we learn of it and permit it to continue, we not only deserve to lose; we deserve to die.
This depends here--do we know if torturing a terrorist's family will either certainly or almost certainly stop a bombing? If that's the case, then it would be morally wrong not to torture said family members to save many more people.
Unfortunately, I don't think that's exactly what you had in mind. Torture Gitmo style is scientifically proven to be highly inefficient in yielding information.
But either way, there probably aren't too many situations where you'd actually stop a terrorist attack by torturing random family members of terrorists. Therefore this remains strictly hypothetical.
@Dizzy Dream
Why yes, he is.
"I say torture the 5yo child of terrorists, bomb their villages. When you know who did a suicide bomb and they are from a village or city that supports terror then bomb it."
Why?
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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