I do believe that the current ideological starting point of positivism, the scientific method and traditionally male ways of knowing, are harmful to society and prevent us from moving towards a more loving, inclusive, sustainable global community. Increasingly, we live in an intra-connected, technologically advanced global world, with an increase in human movement and migration. By continuing the myth of the scientific method, we close our heads and our hearts to other ways of knowing that are as equally as valid. We deny ourselves the opportunity to share, to learn, to grow.
[...]
We have relied on numbers and quantifiable solutions for too long, and clearly, they are not working. A radical value realignment that recognizes the inherent worth in other ways of knowing has the potential to transform a society that currently marginalizes so many. Imagine if in schools, instead of the primary focus being on aptitude testing and national standards, there were empathy and ethical standards? Imagine if we raised children to trust their embodied responses, before language can logically construct a thought, if we created a culture where feeling was as important as thinking? Imagine if we began by teaching our children about how other cultures know and learn and we allowed our children to dictate which knowledge base they felt was best for them at that time? Imagine if we spent more time on nurturing love and compassion for self, instead of spelling bees and route learned times tables? Would the dynamic of our communities begin to shift? Imagine a life, without bell curves, and ranks and standards based on numbers. Imagine a world where everyone was valued, equally, all knowledge bases were legitimate. Wouldn’t it be better, for everyone?
39 comments
Numbers aren't working? How do you think engineering works? How aircraft get airborne, how astronauts got to the moon, how they got back ? This post disturbs me in that it clearly distrusts science, but tries to cover it up in a veneer of positive emotional language. It's also extremely vague, and in the vagueness are some rather sinister implications. What exactly are you steering towards when you say 'all knowledge bases were legitimate'? Sorry, no. There are facts that do not rely on how you feel about them to be valid. 2 + 2 = 4 no matter how you 'feel' about mathematics. Also, traditionally 'male' ways of knowing? You do know there are women scientists, mathematicians, engineers, etc?
same old ultra-feminist claptrap, reusing the same old sexist, male-centric clichés (women are oh so emotional, therefore maths is hard) it claims to reject. Tell me how you can value women when you deny them the ability to understand "numbers".
> we live in an intra-connected, technologically advanced global world, with an increase in human movement and migration
Thanks to the scientific method.
> A radical value realignment that recognizes the inherent worth in other ways of knowing has the potential to transform a society that currently marginalizes so many.
Sounds like the Dialectical approach to intercultural communication; fuzzy-emotional approaches are great for a fuzzy-emotional field, but the sharp-physical world demands a sharp approach. That's how we got so interconnected in the first place!
close our heads and our hearts to other ways of knowing that are as equally as valid.
This is pseudoscience speak for "They won't listen to our wacko ideas!"
We have relied on numbers and quantifiable solutions for too long, and clearly, they are not working.
We've been to the moon and back, and we have instant global communication which you just used to share this idea. I think it is working.
Imagine if we raised children to trust their embodied responses, before language can logically construct a thought, if we created a culture where feeling was as important as thinking?
Why not teach them this at home? Why is it that people think it's the school's place to teach their children their ideas? I'm all for schools teaching children empathy but an education is based mainly on facts, not how good they feel about something.
Imagine a world where ... all knowledge bases were legitimate. Wouldn’t it be better, for everyone?
No, because wacko ideas are still wacko ideas. The only way science and society works is to discard ideas which don't work and keep the ones that do.
Posted on the internet, using a computer powered by electricity delivered by refined copper wires and fiber-optic cables.
The irony is strong with this one.
image
Erm. Well, it's not a radical idea to teach children about empathy, emotional well being, other cultures, and ethics. All children should be valued, sure, and their individual needs should be met. Not sure how that equates to abolishing all standardized tests, math, science etc. in schooling. They are not "male ways of thinking." You can't exactly "feel" how to build a computer or perform open heart surgery or file a tax return.
Also not a fan of the whole "un-schooling" thing or whatever. Give kids some structure and real education.
"[...]
We have relied on numbers and quantifiable solutions for too long, and clearly, they are not working."
Citation needed for them not working. You may not understand them but that does not mean they aren't working
> You say you have a problem with the scientific method but you only offer options with regard to education. You do know that these two are not synonyms, right?
Presumably, this quote was taken from a conversation about education. If so, it makes sense that the writer is mainly addressing that topic.
I disagree strongly with her "all ways of knowing are equally valid" thesis, and to view science and logic as "male ways of knowing" is an insult both to female scientists and to women in general. But unless "fundie" now means "anything I disagree with and find offensive," this quote does not belong on fstdt.
"we live in an intra-connected, technologically advanced global world"
"By continuing the myth of the scientific method"
-Oh sorry. Did someone tell you that all that technology came down from the heavens on the backs of angels in golden chariots?
"we close our heads and our hearts to other ways of knowing that are as equally as valid"
- AKA Believing in imaginary bullshit. Go back to 1963, hippie.
"Would the dynamic of our communities begin to shift?"
-Yes, toward the Dark Ages.
Increasingly, we live in an intra-connected, technologically advanced global world
Yep... and it's all down to numbers, science and quantifiable solutions...
We have relied on numbers and quantifiable solutions for too long, and clearly, they are not working.
*sigh* Get off the fucking internet then, it's obviously not working...
> You say you have a problem with the scientific method but you only offer options with regard to education. You do know that these two are not synonyms, right?
Presumably, this quote was taken from a conversation about education. If so, it makes sense that the writer is mainly addressing that topic.
I disagree strongly with her "all ways of knowing are equally valid" thesis, and to view science and logic as "male ways of knowing" is an insult both to female scientists and to women in general. But unless "fundie" now means "anything I disagree with and find offensive," this quote does not belong on fstdt.
meh. alan watts once said that some people are prickles and some are goo. i'm extremely prickly and Taeha Condon is extremely gooey. so my instinct is to pounce all over this, but if i look closely, it's really the language around her specific points that i'm reacting against. her actual points, i actually agree with completely. well, maybe not completely, but pretty close.
If the last hundred years have taught us anything it's that our current way of doing things just isn't working. Just look at the state of the world: medicine that was unthinkable at any other point in our history, wider recognition of basic human rights for a broader range of people, a deeper understanding of the universe on the macro and micro scales than we've ever before possessed, growing efficiency in the use of fuel and other resources, exploration of other worlds...
Clearly we went wrong somewhere along the way. What we REALLY need is to rediscover the art of saying "fuck the facts-- I'd prefer it things worked like this so that's the way they work". It worked well for tribal societies, right? I mean sure: it's one of the things that HAS to go in order to advance beyond tribalism, but still.
"Feminists" who spread the lie that somehow logic and reason are the dominion of males and that being logical and rational is somehow an oppression of women are really doing women everywhere a massive disservice. It's hard to imagine a more demeaning infantalizing claim than to say that an entire class of people is unable to participate in any activity requiring rational logic. I can't think of a better way to ensure there continues to be a massive skew in the ratio of men to women in the science and technical fields than to claim that science is somehow a "male way of knowing".
I'd like to introduce Taeha to a group of female scientists, and then sit back and watch her get what she deserves.
"We have relied on numbers and quantifiable solutions for too long, and clearly, they are not working."
Yeah, what have numbers and quantifiable solutions ever given us? Except for calculus. And engineering. And Chemistry, Metallurgy. Electronics, Aviation. An industrial revolution. Public health policies. Epidemiology. Interstate commerce. Computers. The internet...
You are obviously ignorant of what the words that you are throwing around actually mean, like "positivism" and the "scientific method". By equating them, you show that you are unaware of how positivism has been rejected during the 20th century because it disagreed with scientific evidence.
Science WORKS! It is that simple. You are using the Internet. Do you imagine that it was invented by scientifically ignorant clods? You drive in cars, fly on aircraft, etc. No such things could possibly exist without scientific knowledge. That is what makes Science special.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
To post a comment, you'll need to Sign in or Register . Making an account also allows you to claim credit for submitting quotes, and to vote on quotes and comments. You don't even need to give us your email address.