[I once knew a 27 year-old man who married a woman he hardly knew just so he could have sex.]
Why is that a problem? I think it is great that such people choose marriage rather than sex without marriage. I think society would be much better off if it was more common and if the laws against adultery and fornication were enforced.
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What laws against adultery and fornication??? These things are legal, just not moral. You shouldn't cheat on your partner, and the legal system should not have to tell you that, dipshit.
You say this, and then say that gay marriage weakens heterosexual marriage?
What's really worse here, a couple of people having a quick one-night stand just to experience sex, or a couple of people who aren't really in love & have no emotional attachment rush into a marriage just so they can have sex without guilt? If they're lucky, they won't have any kids to put through the inevitable divorce.
Yeah, what's the big deal? This is exactly what Paul said to do, and for the exact reason, isn't it?
The sanctity of marriage isn't about love to these people, and it never was. Read the Bible. Marriage is about keeping the penis undefiled, by owning a virgin woman as property and having sole dominion over them. And it's only proper that she worship him and bear him sons.
Of course, back in the OT, God was okay with having multiple wives and concubines. Or commanding his followers to keep the young girls alive after slaughtering their village and raping them.
That's what was clearly defined as marriage in that book they worship as the inerrant word of God. So it's no surprise that GrayDuck doesn't blink at this. This is why two men or two women getting hitched undermines what they call "marriage". They find it unacceptable because there's no domination involved, as there should be in "traditional" marriage.
Sad, isn't it?
...dude, it's a problem because he barely knows her . And, he's seemingly only getting married for the sex. There's more to a good marriage than that.
Seriously, they could've just had a one-night-stand or something. Happens all the time, whether you like it or not.
Ten bucks says they'll end up getting divorced shortly.
...Here I thought you were worried about the sanctity of marriage. Has it ever occurred to you that the high divorce rate might be attributable to the number of people marrying specifically for sex without making sure they know what they're doing first?
Gays aren't a threat to marriage. Christian sexual attitudes are.
hanibi has it right. The sanctity of marriage is about owning a virgin as property, and that the only worth a woman has is her virginity until she starts popping out babies, but there's other factors too.
In a matriarchal society, there is no question who the mother of a child is, and no trouble following the bloodline because of it. In a patriarchal society however, the only way to prove who the father of a child is, and thus prove the bloodline is to be sure that a woman only ever sleeps with one man her entire life, making sure that any children she has will be his. It follows the virginity issue just as well, since the only way to be completely sure who is the father of a woman's child is to be completely sure that she's only slept with one man by ensuring her virginity at the time of ownership. It's also why it wasn't a big deal for a man to have many wives and concubines, since any children they had would clearly be his vs. a woman having many men, there's the question of who is the father of the children she would bear.
[Why is that a problem?]
*Sigh*. Where to begin...
[I think it is great that such people choose marriage rather than sex without marriage.]
So...you're in favor of gay marriage, then?
[I think society would be much better off if it was more common and if the laws against adultery and fornication were enforced.]
Uh...what laws would these be?
How do you propose they be enforced?
Can you imagine the sex police coming around to your house at 2 in the morning to make sure that the one you're in bed with is your lawfully wedded spouse? And if you couldn't produce a marriage license they either cite you or haul you off to jail.
When I was a police dispatcher I actually got a call from a man whose wife was in our town shacked up with another man. He wanted me to send the police down there and have them enforce the adultery laws. I laughed and told him it wasn't going to happen.
The Colonel wrote:
"What laws against adultery and fornication??? These things are legal, just not moral."
In some U.S. states, it's still illegal to have sex with someone you're not married to.
Including Virginia.
Which kinda makes you wonder about the state's tourism slogan, "Virginia is for lovers."
Oh yes, just imagine how different society would be! You could go into a house where an old man presents several hot women to you. You choose one, marry her on the spot, have sex with her, then divorce her. No premarital sex, it's a good, christian marriage. A short one, but who cares. And it's so practical - the house owner would have marriage and divorce certificates ready, you'd just have to pay a small fee for his troubles. Hell, he could even provide you with extra divorce and marriage certificates if you're already married to someone else! And the best thing is: there wouldn't be any more need for those filthy prostitues! Of course, there wouldn't be any more STDs either, because we all know that sex inside marriage is the best way to protect yourself from AIDS and stuff.
Wow. People in Saudi Arabia must be so happy with their lives.
Reiterating what tracer said, in my state (Georgia) there are at least two paragraphs relating to such "sexual offenses", Fornication (16-6-18) and Adultery (16-6-19). Look it up on the Web (Georgia Code; LexisNexis would be a good place to research) if you really want to. Good thing is these laws are almost never enforced, at least not that I've ever heard of.
P.S. there is also an interesting paragraph, Masturbation for Hire (16-6-16). Sometimes reading these laws makes you wonder...
P.P.S. C.H. (#1015196), I've heard that in some countries in the Middle East with strict Islamic laws (Iran maybe?) this is exactly how prostitution works. In other words, people will find loopholes one way or another.
EDIT: Sorry, googling a little more showed that Georgia fornication laws have been struck several years ago. My bad.
@tracer
In some U.S. states, it's still illegal to have sex with someone you're not married to.
Including Virginia.
Which kinda makes you wonder about the state's tourism slogan, "Virginia is for lovers."
The Virginia fornication law has been ruled unconstitutional. Our state supreme court has finally joined this universe.
"I think society would be much better off if... the laws against adultery and fornication were enforced."
Totalitarians for Jesus. It's none of your damn business what consenting adults do in their own homes, you nosy prick. If that's the kind of society you want to live in, piss off to Saudi Arabia and get the hell out of the civilized world. (And you're factually incorrect, too. We have no such laws anywhere in this country.)
Other than that, if you want to have a really immature and bizarre philosophy about sex, that's your problem, not mine.
[You knew a desperate and profoundly stupid 27 year old.]
It's a problem because for whatever reason, this 27 year old was so fixated on sex... yet unable to find a way to pursue this without the complication of marriage.
This is a sad tragedy for two people.
There are no laws against adultery, and/or "fornication" (sex)
[Why is that a problem? I think it is great that such people choose marriage rather than sex without marriage. ]
Sorry, marriage is about commitment, not sex. If you're going to marry that person just to fuck them, then don't bother getting married.
[I think society would be much better off if it was more common and if the laws against adultery and fornication were enforced.]
So, you thank it's okay to force people into marriages they don't like?
And how will you enforce these adultery and fornication laws? You gonna put hidden cameras in people's bedrooms?
Well, for starters it's a marriage lacking respect, love and commitment. Without those things, can it really be called a marriage?
She's a vagina to him, not the woman he loves. You people really never did get love. Did you? You speak of it, it's importance and that it's your Gods feelings and wish for us, but you don't know what it means between two people.
hmmmmmmm....... from what I understand from my married buddies, This guy said it just like it is.
"choose marriage rather than sex without marriage".
Let's read that again slowly..."choose marriage (no mention of sex) rather than sex without marriage (not being married as a precurser of getting sex)". I dunno....just what some of my married buddies have told me.....
Sorry, I couldnt resist the humourous jab...........
@ Doctor Whom : Glad to hear it. Did this decision come before, after, or as a result of, the "Virginia is for Lovers" advertising campaign?
Hmm, in the military, you can indeed get in trouble for sodomy (I know a guy that got kicked out on over 200 counts of sodomy. Moral of that story: don't take sex tapes with you in them to work.)
You can also get in trouble for fornication and adultery. But unless they're detrimental to morale, they're usually ignored.
With that logic, you know where divorce rates are headed, right?
Give you a hint, it's not off the charts in the negative direction...
They've done it, folks. They've finally admitted what I'm sure some have suspected for so long: That it's not about being sure you're having sex with someone who genuinely cares for you, is disease-free, whatever. It's all about lifting that geas, that mandate against nookie outside marriage because the Big Boss Man would fry you in an instant. Hands up everyone who thinks GrayDuck would truly just LOVE to answer a "casual encounters" ad, or put one up online, despite his words.
What is this fuckery? Good shit, these people just get more and more insane. "Let's get married, essentially anonymous person, just so we can have sex" is NOT a good idea. Divorce rates are already high enough.
Oh, not this douche. His ability to hate those who don't act in the way he thinks is moral is unbelievable. He fills up the RHRC forum with his illogical and patronising crap, and he seems to have something against the entire human race in general. It's horrible and evil if you have sex while unattached, but if you pay a little lip service and sign a piece of paper beforehand it's suddenly wonderful and marvellous? Does. Not. Compute.
Marriage is not a matter of Tab A into Slot B NOR is it a matter of love!
Marriage, as first developed, is a LEGAL CONTRACT!!
Arranged marriages! Biblical references! Simple logistics!
Marriage for love is very recent and not very well thought out!
Remember sociology class? ANYONE?!?
Bottom line, Marriages were to set up advantageous family and love, if it developed at all, was a **BONUS**.
Sex isn't even related to marriage originally, they just mangled the meaning.
So when someone says they have a civil union, congratulate them on their MARRIAGE as that's what they have!
You're missing the point here, GrayDuck.
The man got married solely so that he could have sex. That he wedded someone he barely knew compounds the issue, as adultery/fornication are committed under these same conditions. So, technically, this man might as well be having sex outside of marriage as his intentions were no different from those of a promiscuous person.
Marriages built on just sex more often than not fail rather fantastically. Success of a marriage depends on a combination of many factors, such as economic situation, personality match-up, commitment, loyalty, love, etc., etc. As not doubt, everyone here knows, the man you speak of will eventually get a divorce from the woman, as he did not marry for the right reasons. And that is what the problem is.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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