["my sister killed herself a few years ago because she was a lesbian and did not want to be. and i am just having a really hard time accepting the islamic position on it"]
Shaytaan is using the death of your sister to make you doubt the Laws of your Creator. It is most likely a test from Allah, 'Azza wa Jal.. life is all about tests.
Also, if your sister did not practice homosexuality and only had these un-controlable desires then she would not be executed according to Shari'ah (as far as I know). The penalty is for doing the act and/or being public about it.
68 comments
Also, if your sister did not practice homosexuality and only had these un-controlable desires then she would not be executed according to Shari'ah (as far as I know).
Ah, so you'd have to make up some charges first before stoning her or whatever? Sounds inconvenient.
I feel bad for the person who asked that question. Unfortunately, instead of providing consolence or something, this "Abu Shawarma" guy was going on about how the sister sinned and she might be punished for it. You don't do that when someone is grieving. In fact, the question-asker may very well feel less comforted by religion now than ever.
Fuck you with a rusty spoon.
If any creator tests you by killing family members, that being is not worth worshiping.
I initially decided to turn my back on Islam when this issue of my homosexuality came up. I was made to feel that because I was homosexual (and knew in my heart that I was always homosexual and that it was something that was part of me and could not change) that it didn't matter how nice I was to others, eventually I'll be punished in hell for it while all those straight arseholes I had encountered growing up would go to heaven. That made my future seem very, very dim. Suicide was quite an attractive option back then.
I was pissed off at god and decided to become a satanist to spite him. Started to surf the internet for the first time in 1997 and, to my surprise, I discovered that satanists were just actually atheists at the core.
This is why I really support the "It Gets Better" campaign. Children need to know that, be told that from someone who has gone through it. Light at the end of the tunnel.
Mister Shwarma, like all other religious Islamic "gurus" I've come across most probably also has a problem with the grave sin of masturbation (can't relate how fucked up I was about all that; made to feel guilty about something, especially when a teen, you can't help but do).
Way to pour salt on this person's wound jackass. Why do people even put up with this kind of emotional abuse? I've heard a lot of people say that they're religious because it brings them comfort but fundamentalism doesn't even have THAT. Among the quotes from the guy who claimed that a 12 year old getting raped and pregnant was her fault , the guy that told a rape victim that she should have been going to church more and that god set up her rape , and now this douche telling the asker that god is setting up some sort of sick test by killing his/her sister I just don't get what anyone sees in fundamentalist beliefs and why they are so popular still.
"life is all about tests"
Except when it happens to heretics, then it's a punishment. It can sometimes be tricky to differentiate the two.
"Shaytaan is using the death of your sister to make you doubt the Laws of your Creator. It is most likely a test from Allah, 'Azza wa Jal.. life is all about tests."
I often feel tested when dealing with people such as yourself.
That doesn't change the fact that your religion has rotted your brain and made you a callous, uncaring jackass with no empathy at all whose only goal appears to be to push your brain-rot religion onto others at any opportunity you can find.
"Also, if your sister did not practice homosexuality and only had these un-controlable desires then she would not be executed according to Shari'ah (as far as I know)."
Oh, well then. Guess that makes it all a-ok then. However, I'm pretty sure the more extreme of your particular religion would disagree--strongly --with you on this. Possibly to the point that they'd want you executed because you're not agreeing with them about it.
"The penalty is for doing the act and/or being public about it."
And you find nothing wrong with the penalty in general? Is that what you're getting at?
Fundie Beliefs # 22 - Theodicy
"Theodicy" is the attempt to explain why a benevolent and all-powerful God lets bad things happen to people. For example, why does He allow an entire city to be destroyed by an earthquake? No problem. There’s simply no such thing as "bad". Either
Don’t forget, if it hadn’t been for Hitler, no one would have believed all that whining about the phony "holocaust" and given Israel back to the Jews. Plus what would make you love God more: winning the lottery or having Him destroy your home and kill your children with a tornado? Obviously, the latter!
Sometimes, it gets suggested that bad things happen because God is punishing sinners usually gays or girls in tight pants. Unfortunately, the great Liberal Conspiracy® is quick to find plenty of examples of God-fearing communities being wiped out while gays and other sinners are untouched in other areas. Therefore, we suggest these arguments not be used.
Abu Shawarma,
What a kind, loving god it must be who would send such tests - homosexuality, suicide, just so you can prove you love him.
Would you love your father if he inflicted all kinds of tests like this on you? I think you would at the very least get away from him and keep out of his reach.
It matters not at all whether this person's sister was a lesbian. If they loved her, and if her family loved her, they would have been supportive and done everything possible to make her life more tolerable. If, on the other hand, they tormented her over her sexuality, then they would have every reason to feel remorse and to experience guilt. I have no idea how they behaved towards her, but I hope they did not treat her in any unkind way.
Your final sentence shows the way of your thinking. Can you wonder therefore that westerners condider this interpretation of your religion to be barbaric and false? And the god whom you claim to serve cannot be good, but must be a close relative of Iblis if this is what he demands. Love is forgiving and cherishing regardless of the failings it encounters. Anything else is hate and evil.
So in other words, stay the fuck in the closet or we'll kill you. That's a real healthy attitude to have. By your own admission, you're not making homosexuality go away, you're just pushing it underground. Kind of like how the president of Iran claims there are no homosexuals there.
And I don't suppose that Abu ever thought that it's the totally negative attitude that he and his ilk have toward homosexuality that causes suicides in the first place? It probably has, but he thinks that gays who kill themselves are just saving the fundies the trouble of putting them to death. After all, it takes a lot of work to build a stone wall and knock it over onto someone.
And who the hell came up with that idea as a way to execute someone? Did Wile E. Coyote convert to fundamentalist Islam or something?
See christians? There are lots of things you and muslims can agree on. Now lets all sing Kumbayaa and plan ways to drive more evil homosexuals to suicide.
Religion. Poisons. EVERYTHING!
@nutbunny: I <3 you and I'm glad you found solace to accept (and love) who you are. The "it gets better" project is, I think, one of the most positive things to come of this century.
"Theodicy": the attempt to explain why a benevolent and all-powerful God lets bad things happen to people.
First ever entry in the Atheist Word Redefinition Dictiony
@JohnTheAtheist
They apparently agree, because later in the thread, they point out that the practice of lesbianism was punished with lashings, rather than death.
It is most likely a test from Allah
We test people to make sure they know how to drive before we give them a license. We test people in school to make sure they've learned the skills they'll need to be productive citizens. But why should Allah test people? What special skills will you need in Paradise that require passing a test before you're admitted?
Oh that wacky God, just murdering people left and right and all to test their faith.
Look, dude's omnipotent and omniscient right. So why does he have to test our faith if he knows everything already. Unless of course he's a deranged pyscho who gets his kicks from random slaughter.
Abu Shawarma's Allah: God of straining gnats and swallowing camels.
We need a "Word of Allah" poster. Indistinguishable from the "Word of Christ" poster, actually.
Fuck you with a rusty, AIDS-infested chisel wrapped in barb wire and coated with sodium tetrachloride you fatwa fucker.
Truly, a religion of peace!
Should we start taking bets on how long until quotes about the Japanese earthquake start appearing? I can't believe anyone would call that a righteous curse, or - even worse - a blessing from God. It sickens me.
*Also, if your sister did not practice homosexuality and only had these un-controlable desires then she would not be executed according to Shari'ah (as far as I know). The penalty is for doing the act and/or being public about it.
Awww, how Catholic of them.
Shaytaan is using the death of your sister to make you doubt the Laws of your Creator.
Translation: You are starting to think rationally, cut that out or we will stone your arse!
#1265781
Nothing and I mean nothing - makes me as angry as these insane mythologies...
Go fuck yourself with a barbed wire wrapped cactus dipped in hydrochloric acid and sprinkled with Capsaicin!
Please, I must object to cactus abuse!
If the desires are uncontrollable, then it's very hard not to act on them, stupid!
I read in a paper the other day about a trial for a man who had killed his own daughter for the heinous crimes of being divorced and smoking. He sat there, cold as a fish, and related calmly how he planed the murder, how he followed her around to learn where it would be easiest to kill her. All because she had disturbed his honor.
At least this man's son was human; he cried all through the proceedings, and when it came to the actual murder, he started banging his head against the table in front of him.
It makes you wonder; did this man pass or fail the test? Did he follow Allah's will and remove the cancerous shame, or couldn't he take the pressure and committed the grave sin of murder?
@His4Life re:I'd hate to be in her shoes (sandals or whatever Muslims wear) on Judgement day!
Well that's mighty racist of you. Do you ululate while prancing around in rubber gumboots?
@His4Life re:Going to hell sure is an improvement in living conditions, I bet. :)
You're just a nasty soul. If there was a hell, you'd be there.
People like you make me want to carry out spiteful extravaganzas of blasphemy just to get your panties in a twist.
Oh, it's okay. Don't worry. Allah has mercy. I mean, if she didn't act on it -- we wouldn't have killed her. We might have ostracized her to the point of suicide. But we wouldn't have killed her or anything.
Ah yes, "testing" and "trials". Those all too famous religious euphemisms for cruelty, sadism and inhumanity.
__________
...you trust him right?
@His4Life
"Nutbunny, I like the "It Gets Better" campaigns too. Going to hell sure is an improvement in living conditions, I bet. :)"
Of course, you know all about that youself don't you? ;)
Abu Shawarma means "Father of shawarma". Shawarma is a particularly nice Arab style of kebab. Try them if you're ever down Edgeware Road, they are gorgeous.
Which makes me think that he is either a troll or a more-catholic-than-the-pope convert who has not done his Arabic lessons.
"Oh my old man's a pastie, he's made from swedes and mince." And so on.
@Giardano Bruno I think I hear the sound of you winning the Internet!
Also, which city is Edgeware Road in? Anywhere else I can find this type of 'bab?
@Failure4Life
Islamic AND a lesbian. God, I'd hate to be in her shoes (sandals or whatever Muslims wear) on Judgement day!
Nutbunny, I like the "It Gets Better" campaigns too. Going to hell sure is an improvement in living conditions, I bet. :)
I know, right? Let's all dance and cheer at the thought of people getting tortured for eternity! :-D Yay, torture! Tell me, Failure4Life, do you also like to rip the wings off of butterflies and kick puppies too?
For kebab lovers, Edgeware Road is in London.It's where ordinary Arab people rather than millionares live, work, and socialise. The food is wonderful.
Abu Shawarma? Really?
my sister killed herself a few years ago because she was a lesbian and did not want to be
No, she killed herself a few years ago because she was hounded and harassed by homophobic bigots and religious fanatics.
Are you qualified to give a legal opinion, sir? I really doubt you are, though at least you're honest about not being an expert.
You're not supposed to give a goddamn opinion if you aren't a qualified scholar! That's shari'a, too!
Except fundies ignore that a lot. Independent reasoning is good, but when it puts the right to decide to stone people into the hands of a bunch of idiots who ignore the centuries of tradition and moderation between a man with conditional control over a single city and modern civilizations, it's suddenly a problem. Also, the tendency to throw in the 'not recommended' category with the 'abominated' category among modern fundies is really annoying.
And you, sir, are missing the point. A lot.
The worst part about this is that this is actually a relatively moderate position. This is a fairly common idea amongst both Christians and Muslims.
Sometimes I wish the Fundie Muslims and the Fundie Christians would concentrate all their bigotry on each other and go and leave the rest of the world alone.
Shaytaan is using the death of your sister to make you doubt the Laws of your Creator.
Or, Allah is using it to scare you away from being gay.
Or, it could be that your sister was so overcome with depression after being told how evil she was for something she could not control, and she chose to end her life. If the latter, maybe you should consider leaving your "faith."
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
To post a comment, you'll need to Sign in or Register . Making an account also allows you to claim credit for submitting quotes, and to vote on quotes and comments. You don't even need to give us your email address.
