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Quote# 129981

All sexualities deserve compassion and a proper hearing in the press, but a paederast is an adult male who loves an adolescent boy, whereas a paedophile is attracted to prepubescent children.

Paederasty is the dominant historical form acquired by male love, a mutually felt yet partially separate equality of need between an adult male and an adolescent boy. If in turn enthused by his beauty and daring excitement upon the cusp of sexual, emotional and intellectual ripeness, the elder provides for formative ground under the feet of his beloved as he conducts himself toward adulthood.

It is inseparable from the greatest flourishing of Western culture, by which I mean especially Classical Athens and the Italian Renaissance.
Don’t be taken in by the propaganda: the vast majority of cases of ‘child abuse’ are beneficial to both participants, but ‘victims’ are forced to testify or else have their minds warped, and most historical accusations are just made up for money. Yes, in such relationships the boy is the centre, often amounting to really a kind of worship, and no boylover, by definition, could possibly harm a boy. They just love them too much!

Luckily, there is a book called “Alexander’s Choice”, reviewed positively by the Daily Mail and the London Review of Books. Set at Eton, it goes into some detail, clearly well-researched, concerning, in the author’s words, “the inner dynamics” of such relationships.

Casimir, OxfordStudent 6 Comments [7/31/2017 1:11:33 PM]
Fundie Index: 5

Quote# 129980

The author is beginning to experience an awakening, but will not see the light until he sees that the problem is not so called pedophiles but those who fear them. The greatest constituency for pedophilia is children who love adults at the same rate that other adults love adults. Denying children their sexual rights is the real child abuse.

A truly civilized society should know how to fulfill the needs of all its citizens. But the adults who now unfortunately run the store so fear children that they must perform a curious pirouette and blame that adults.

Those adults who commit genuine acts of rape do so because in the absence of sane peaceful structures mechanisms, feel that rape is the only way to express their need. Change the laws and these horrible crimes will dwindle to the extent possible for our dysfunctional species.

Anonymous, OxfordStudent 11 Comments [7/31/2017 1:11:26 PM]
Fundie Index: 4

Quote# 129976

Do you understand now what is judgment and what is truth? If you now understand, then I exhort you to submit to judgment, otherwise you shall never have the opportunity to be commended by God or to be taken by God into His kingdom. Those who only accept judgment but can never be purified, that is, those who flee in the midst of the work of judgment, shall forever be detested and rejected by God. Their sins are much more, and more grievous, than those of the Pharisees, for they have betrayed God and are rebels against God.

Such men who are not worthy even to do service shall receive more severe, everlasting punishment. God shall not spare any traitor who once claimed loyalty with words yet then betrayed Him. Such men shall see retribution through punishment of the spirit, soul, and body. Does this not reveal the righteous disposition of God? Is this not exactly the purpose of God’s judgment and revelation of man? God shall place all those who perform all kinds of wicked deeds during the time of judgment in the place where evil spirits live for their fleshly bodies to be destroyed at the will of the spirits. Their bodies shall give off the odor of a corpse, and such is their fitting retribution.

God writes down in their record books each and every one of the sins of those disloyal false believers, false apostles, and false workers, then when the time is right, He casts them amidst the unclean spirits so their entire bodies may be defiled by the spirits at will and, as a result, they will never be reincarnated and shall never again see the light. Those hypocrites who did service at one time but are unable to remain loyal to the end shall be numbered by God among the wicked so that they walk in the counsel of the wicked, becoming part of the disorderly multitude. In the end, God shall destroy them. God casts aside and takes no notice of those who have never been loyal to Christ or dedicated any effort, and shall destroy them all in the change of ages.

They shall no longer exist on earth, much less gain passage into the kingdom of God. Those who have never been true to God but are forced into dealing with God shall be numbered among those who do service for His people. Only a small number of such men can survive, while the majority shall perish along with those who are not qualified even to do service. Finally, God shall bring into His kingdom all those who are of the same mind as God, the people and sons of God as well as those predestined by God to be priests.

Such is the fruit begotten by God through His work. As for those who can belong to none of the categories set by God, they shall be numbered among the unbelievers. And you can surely imagine what their outcome shall be. I have already said to you all that I should say; the road that you choose shall be your decision to make. What you should understand is this: The work of God never waits for any that cannot keep pace with God, and the righteous disposition of God shows no mercy to any man.

Church of Almighty God, Church of Almighty God 5 Comments [7/31/2017 12:20:48 PM]
Fundie Index: 3
Submitted By: Katie

Quote# 129966

House Republicans were planning to pass a spending bill stacked with his campaign promises, including money to build his border wall with Mexico.

But an internal House Republican fight over transgender troops was threatening to blow up the bill. And House GOP insiders feared they might not have the votes to pass the legislation because defense hawks wanted a ban on Pentagon-funded sex reassignment operations — something GOP leaders wouldn’t give them.

They turned to Trump, who didn’t hesitate. In the flash of a tweet, he announced that transgender troops would be banned altogether.

Trump and House GOP, Politico 15 Comments [7/31/2017 12:19:37 PM]
Fundie Index: 2

Quote# 129962

If someone goes into battle you bet your ass I'm gonna pay for them to get a hard on when they come home. They earned it. But that's IF THEY NEED IT BECAUSE IF ERECTILE DYSFUNCTION. No one chooses to have erectile dysfunction. People choose to transition between genders all the time. As a choice that means It is an unnecessary procedure therefore the US government shouldn't be wasting money on it.

Brent Bauer, Facebook 12 Comments [7/31/2017 12:18:54 PM]
Fundie Index: 3
Submitted By: Demon Duck of Doom

Quote# 129960

Default Re: Are furries so bad?
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck, it must be a . . .

I live in Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh hosts the annual "Anthrocon". I can tell you first hand, it is disgusting and it IS all about the sex. This from an "entertainment worker":

"My city Pittsburgh has hosted the Anthrocon conventions for the past nine years due to the big profits for the city itself, and this year the furry fan-dom group has donated tens of thousands of dollars to the Pittsburgh Aviary.

Wonderful, BUT I ask myself...is Pittsburgh being duped into believing this group is something other than what it is?

Having worked in the adult industry for decades, and having owned adult websites back in the mid-nineties, I'm fairly well-versed on adult fetish categories.

I'm not going to bore you with descriptions or lengthy explanations, you can Google it and find all the information on the subject matter yourself, but I will get straight to the point with this:

Gross link removedAn adult X-rated video of a plush furry fetish sexual deviant in action. (Warning! Obscenity. This is a simulation of bestiality.)

My professional opinion is that Anthrocon is a CON, and this is not just simply a group of thousands of grown adults who love furry animals----think about that for a minute!

My concern is for the children, and that's why I am writing this piece. I stumbled on a chat forum where a parent was inquiring whether it was safe for their 14-year-old son to participate in the furry culture.

When you read some of the answers that are given, it will send chills down your spine----most notably the answer about how only a very SMALL percentage of them are into bestiality.

Even more disturbing to me as a parent is that our local news media personalities have not taken the time to investigate this for what it really is, and thus, when the Anthrocon convention rolls into Pittsburgh, they giggle and promote it as a children's fantasy.

"There is no city that welcomes us in the way Pittsburgh does," said Samuel "Uncle Kage" Conway, chairman and CEO of Anthrocon told the local newspaper. "People here have embraced walking foxes as part of the scene."

This sense of acceptance is important for attendees, who come to Anthrocon to join a community of like-minded anthropomorphics devotees hailing from 25 countries and every state except North Dakota, Mr. Conway said. More than 1,100 attendees dressed in full-body fursuits will walk in a parade Saturday afternoon inside the convention center.

Take my word for it; it is not in any way, shape or form a child's play fantasy game.

It is an x-rated adult fetish group with a fur fetish, similar to diaper, rubber, and other strange materials and objects used as sexual stimulation fetish tools."
Link not give due to improper links within article. Go ahead and google it if you care.

Those who "believe" (probably sincerely) that this is a only a small part of the culture are naïve.

Deacon Jeff

Tuitio Fidei et Obsequium Pauperum

Deacon Jeff, Catholic.com 13 Comments [7/31/2017 12:18:32 PM]
Fundie Index: 4
Submitted By: DiarrheaMan

Quote# 129977

You can devote your heart and body and all your true love to God, place them before God, be completely obedient toward Him, and be absolutely considerate to His will. Not for the flesh, not for family, and not for your personal desires, but for the interests of God’s household.

In everything you can take God’s word as the principle, as the foundation. That way, your intentions, your perspectives will all be in the right place, and you will be someone commended by God before Him. God likes people who are absolute toward Him, people who are loyal to Him and none other.

Church of Almighty God, Church of Almighty God 13 Comments [7/31/2017 11:29:04 AM]
Fundie Index: 3
Submitted By: Katie

Quote# 129968

George Tiller was not your run-of-the-death-mill baby-killer. He was symbolic of the baby-killing industry. He grew in stature as he handily overcame personal obstacles and professional accusations. He made the black art of baby-killing acceptable, perhaps even noble to the public at large.

Tiller represented the baby-killing industry as their point man. He was the face that baby-killing Americans came to love, and pro-lifers love to hate. With legal impunity, wearing a shark-skin suit, Tiller killed the “big babies” with a smile.

Tiller was well connected, especially after the November Republican defeat. He did not squander his fortune, as most baby-killers do, on wine, women, and drugs; he invested wisely in politicians. Pro-choice to kill Governor Sebelius kept her protégé’ from being charged and convicted of a litany of violations of Kansas law. A rising star in Obama’s administration Sebelius would have taken Tiller along with her. Maybe even a Surgeon General.

Wichita’s perpetual beacon of hope, Troy Newman, promised Tiller’s head on a platter. But every attack on Tiller was thwarted. Hoping against hope Troy petitioned Kansas’s Medical Board to pull Tiller’s license. Poppycock! That simply would not happen. Tiller, acquitted of violating Kansas’s laws, was in no serious trouble with the medical board.

The David and Goliath routine was looking bad for David until an unknown champion appeared on the scene. God’s chosen instrument, with a single bullet to the braincase slew Goliath. Rather than take courage from this change of fortune, Troy and his camp ran the other way thinking “Boy, the Philistines are going to be pissed!”

Sweating bullets, Troy was the first to apologize to both the pro-aborts and pro-lifers. “And gee, we were so close to getting Tiller’s medical license pulled!”

Now that we have set the stage, let us examine the pre-text for why Troy and others renounce this shooters brave, unselfish act: Troy tells us that the shooter is a “coward” and a “vigilante.” We all know what a coward is but the definition of a vigilante is “any person who takes the law into his or her own hands, as by avenging a crime.”

We do not know if the shooter's motive was vengeance or if he was acting in defense of the pre-born. The definition for self-defense and defense of others is “the right for civilians acting on their own behalf to engage in violence for the sake of defending one's own life or the lives of others, including the use of deadly force.”

Self defense and the defense of others is justifiable homicide.

This defense is denied Tiller’s shooter as our laws do not recognize the humanity and worth of the pre-born. Those of us who do recognize the person of the Preborn should understand that the use of force is justifiable in protecting the pre-born children, but such is not the case.

In the posts that I have read from Troy and others they assume the shooter’s motive to be vengeance, rather than defensive action. Troy was quick to condemn Tiller’s shooter without knowing his true motive. You can stab a man’s character as surely as you shoot his person.

I proffer this fine distinction because it is important to hand-wringing soul-searching theologians sorting through the dainty innuendos, presuppositions, and new and old winds of doctrine.

But I do not believe the shooter’s motive to be important, as it amounts to defensive action no matter what his motive was.
Tiller was a serial killer. He killed the week he was killed, and like the punctual rape of every blessed day, he was scheduled to kill again. The shooter’s bullet, like David’s stone, stopped Tiller’s bloody hands cold.

But along with the death of George Tiller, is the toppling of the invincible baby-killing idol of aborticide.

Like the Munchkins in the Wizard of Oz, news of Tiller’s death was at first hard to believe. While many of us broke into a joyful song, others broke into a shameful retreat.

Dan Holman, Army of God 17 Comments [7/31/2017 6:06:54 AM]
Fundie Index: 5
Submitted By: Katie

Quote# 129967

I was asked after Tiller’s death “What good did it do to kill Tiller, when someone else would fill Tiller’s shoes?” They were referring to abortionist Leroy Carhart. Carhart could not fill Tiller's bloody shoes. He has his own baby-killing practice. He cannot waltz into Tillers building, and order Tiller’s staff to help him kill babies. He cannot do the administrative work, nor does he have the friends or political contacts; he probably does not have the skill to kill the big babies without harming the mother.

If anybody could do what Tiller did his practice would not be so unique. Paul Seamars was an abortionist in Milwaukee. He left town after he and his wife went through a divorce. His wife hired a hit-man from New Jersey to do the abortions. That arrangement did not prove profitable and the death camp folded. Mark Crutcher of Life Dynamics likens the abortionist to a ball bearing factory in Nazi Germany. When America entered WW2 we were faced with bombing hundreds of factories producing war machines, or bomb just one ball bearing factory for which all of these machines depended.

We bombed the snot out of the ball bearing factory and German production of war materials came to a halt. Tiller’s baby-killing operation is closed because there is no George Tiller to run it. We might thank Tiller’s shooter for that. Troy Newman has tried every legal maneuver to get Tiller thrown in jail or to get his death camp closed. We applaud his efforts, but they have failed to stop Tiller’s bloody hands. I believe that God called Troy Newman and Tiller’s shooter to do what they did. Troy to exhaust all practical and legal means, and Tiller’s shooter to stop him sure.

Troy condemns the shooter for taking Tiller’s life. Troy tells us that Tiller’s medical license was going to be pulled in just two short months! Anyone who has been following this story knows that Tiller was in no danger of losing his practice. Tiller was acquitted of violating Kansas law. Why would the Kansas Medical Board pull his license?

Even if Troy was right, how many babies would Tiller kill in two months? That is how many babies the shooter saved by aborting Tiller.I do not advocate vigilante justice; I believe we need to pursue due process of law whenever possible. But due process of law is not forthcoming, vigilante justice is all the babies have, and vigilante justice is better than no justice at all. It was announced this 9th day of June, 2009, that Tiller’s practice is permanently closed.

Yes, Virginia, sometimes the end does justify the means.

Dan Holman, Army of God 5 Comments [7/31/2017 6:06:39 AM]
Fundie Index: 4
Submitted By: Katie

Quote# 129965

[Commenting under "Mother sentenced to 8-10 years for withholding cancer meds from son"]

@Bill Otis:
The forthcoming torrent of defense-type excuses for this one ought to be a real doozy.

Bill: I strongly morally condemn what she did. Under 123D, she would likely go home, with some acts of atonement enforced by the court.

Safety is the first and last job of government. How does her going to prison make us safer? It makes us poorer, but not likely safer. I do not see how withholding treatment is assault and battery, and attempted murder. Is there a duty to rescue for this class of victim?

One thing about this autistic child, and why the law has come down so hard. Had he survived, he would have generated $millions in cost to the taxpayer, with zero return. So, her biggest sin? Not protecting future government jobs.

Supremacy Claus, Sentencing Law and Policy 17 Comments [7/31/2017 3:41:15 AM]
Fundie Index: 7
Submitted By: JeanP

Quote# 129959

FRANKLINTON, N.C. — A sign in a Granville County yard urging people to "kill liberals" is the latest in a string of fiery political messages posted by the homeowner, according to people in the area, who say they mostly ignore the rhetoric and the man behind it.

The sign, at the corner of Bruce Garner Road and Pocomoke Drive 2 in the southeast corner of the county reads "Civil War 'Now' Kill Liberals." The man who posted it wasn't home Wednesday when a WRAL News crew stopped by.

"This is quite offensive, and before the election, he had other offensive signs, too," said Ravinder Bindra, who runs a country store about a quarter-mile away on Bruce Garner Road. "I don’t pay, most of the time, any attention."

Bindra said the sign's owner stops by his store almost daily, but the Sikh immigrant from India said the man never bothers him.

"He has not been any trouble to me so far," he said. "I don’t know what his name is. See, nobody cares about him."

Bindra said the signs don't signal local sentiment.

"(If it) was of a majority of the people, then I’d be worried, but a single person like him, I’m not worried about any mishappening or anything," he said.

Unknown Granville County man, WRAL 10 Comments [7/30/2017 8:38:34 PM]
Fundie Index: 7
Submitted By: Citizen Justin

Quote# 129958

In a recent discussion on Twitter, Chelsea Manning (formerly Bradley Manning), pardoned by President Obama after being convicted of espionage, argued that transgender “treatment” is necessary for the health of trans individuals, “because,” Chelsea stated, “not getting medical attention for trans people is fatal.”

Manning’s argument is anything but an isolated one. When seventeen-year-old Leelah Alcorn committed suicide in 2014, LGBT activists immediately jumped to blame his parents and society at large for causing the tragedy. Zack Ford of ThinkProgress wrote:

Leelah Alcorn’s death was a preventable tragedy. Here was a 17-year-old girl with full access to all of the information available in the 21st century about transgender identities, including many safe and effective ways to transition. But as she wrote in her own suicide note before jumping in front of a tractor trailer this week, there was no hope attached to those possibilities?—?no trust that it could, in fact, get better. She had given up on crying for help.

This, despite the young man’s parents support of his gender identity. He killed himself because his parents asked him to wait until he was eighteen to begin transitioning. They wouldn’t agree to pay for it earlier.

The argument can be summarized as follows. Without medical treatment (expensive surgery and lifelong hormone therapy), social acceptance, correct pronoun use, and open bathroom access, trans people will never be comfortable in their bodies or in society. Consequently, they are at a high risk for suicide, and it’s an injustice not to make these “treatments” available; the crime of killing trans people can even be laid at the feet of those who do not take these steps.

This argument, made by Manning, Ford, and so many others, is supposed to halt any criticism—or even querying—of gender theory, but it raises more questions than it answers.

The various liberal resources are shockingly equivocal as to what gender identity actually is. Gender identity is an “innermost knowing,” an issue of hormone imbalance, the result of a male brain in a female body, or a ‘transsexual’ brain, maybe an inherited characteristic, and many other possibilities, depending on whom you ask. According to some, gender is an inborn and permanent state; for others, a fluid awareness that might change by the day. How is it possible that a condition so insusceptible of consistent definition could be universally declared fatal without medical treatment?

Further, if transgenderism requires medical treatment, how can it form the basis of anyone’s identity? Trans people and their allies have, of course, insisted with great indignation that their condition is not an illness, but it is hard to see how this conclusion is to be avoided, if it’s insisted that it must be treated or else will be fatal.

Illnesses that require treatment do not constitute anyone’s identity. Being HIV-positive requires medical treatment. I do not identify as HIV-positive as though it made me an entirely new kind of person. It is a condition I need to treat in order to live and be healthy. How is being trans any different?

Aiming at Sex-Gender Alignment

The goal of most transgender individuals is to live as the opposite sex. If this were not true, there would be no concern about “access to health care” or medical necessity. If one could simply enjoy whatever gender identity felt the most appropriate at any given time, medical intervention would be merely cosmetic. So if we agree that people who identify as transgender desire to be the opposite sex to the best of their ability—arguing that internally they already are—then we must accept that the ideal state for all individuals is cisgender, where gender and sex align naturally.

In my experience, this assertion is viewed as hateful and intolerant. To suggest that people who identify as transgender desire to be “like everyone else,” “normal,” or—dare I say—“healthy” by aligning their gender and sex is to suggest a transgender identity is itself a state of error. But again, this seems to be what is presupposed by the argument that medical intervention is so vital that, without it, a person may commit suicide.

In order to achieve a healthy and mentally stable state, a trans person must have their gender and sex as closely aligned as possible. Why, though, does this require the physical sex to change in order to align to the perceived gender? Why shouldn’t the perceived gender be what changes?

It seems far more reasonable—and medically ethical and sound—to achieve this homeostasis by changing gender to match to the already established sex. A woman taking testosterone must continue taking testosterone, or else her desired masculine secondary sex characteristics will fade away (though if she has removed her ovaries, her body will not be able to produce estrogen and bring her female sex characteristics back). As many trans men prefer to keep their reproductive organs and become pregnant, this risk is even higher. The body’s aggressive and persistent attempt to return to a state, despite medical interventions to override that state, indicates that the state is “natural.” The body is being medically forced to adapt to conditions it is unsuited to experience.

If the ideal state is one of homeostasis, in which gender and sex are the same, then why would trans people dedicate their entire lives to forcing their bodies to adapt to conditions they cannot maintain on their own? It seems far more reasonable to recognize that the physical sex at birth is the standard by which internal perception should be aligned. Logically, wouldn’t a transgender person who suffers due to misalignment of gender and sex be equally as happy aligning his gender to his sex if the end result is that gender and sex are the same? Why is the only acceptable option to force, through dramatic physical deformity, the body to adapt to the mind instead?

We Need a Real Cure

Some trans advocates would presumably reply that sex should change rather than gender because sex can change, whereas attempts to change one’s gender usually end badly, but this response is unnecessarily pessimistic.

I have personally experienced gender dysphoria, and I explored transition in my early twenties. I am aware of the emotional struggle, and I am sympathetic to the sense of frustration and hopelessness. But I am also aware of the empowering realization that I alone control how I perceive the world. Even if I would prefer to be female, I understand that my body is male, and therefore the most effective and healthiest plan of action is to align my sense of gender to that unchangeable state. I have largely been successful, as I feel fully integrated today and am not only comfortable in my male body but find myself enjoying the pursuit of masculine physical progress.

An uncomfortable truth is that many surveys, including a 2011 Swedish study, indicate that suicide rates remain high after sex-reassignment surgery (the Swedish study reports that people who have had sex-reassignment surgery are 19 times more likely to die by suicide than is the general population); and the National Center for Transgender Equality reported in 2015 that 40% of people who identify as transgender have attempted suicide. The LGBT community actively fights such studies and suppresses the voices of people who, like myself, have chosen natural alignment or who regret transitioning. The medical community is currently uninterested in recognizing the inherent dangers and long-term impact of transition therapy and is equally unwilling to pursue study that may result in finding a cure or a resolution to the underlying issue. To suggest this is a medical issue needing to be cured is to be accused of proposing genocide.

But medical issues do need to be cured. If gender dysphoria is indeed naturally fatal without treatment, the only ethical solution is to find a cure that exposes the body to the least amount of risk. Obviously, this would be to correct the biological problem and/or address the psychological distress behind the dysphoria itself.

The LGBT movement has built a civilization around the validation of being “who you are” despite all efforts of judgment or persecution. Trans individuals often tell me they are now their “true gender.” Advocates like Zack Ford and others routinely demand that extreme social bigotry prevents the trans individual from living a full and happy life. But in the center of this storm of indignation and boasting of perseverance is the steady and quiet realization that these people are extremely insecure.

We cannot forget the real tragedy in all of this. People suffering from genuine mental anguish are being promised that with enough surgery, camouflage, social acceptance, legal protection, educational campaigns, and so on, they will finally feel whole as a person. Worse, they are told that the only reason they continue to suffer is due to the intolerance and hatred of those around them. The current method of addressing this concern is only making matters worse. Treatment needs to address the core problem.

Chad Greene, The Public Discourse 7 Comments [7/30/2017 8:37:43 PM]
Fundie Index: 7

Quote# 129955

I struggled for a long time with homosexual desires — 47 years from the time my attractions first started – at various levels of involvement. For the first 18 years, it was really just envy, coveting, and curiosity, although I allowed a guy to seduce me when I was in my late teens.

My homosexual feelings really started at age 13 when a physical exam discovered that my testicles had not yet descended. In those days sex was rarely a topic of discussion and I didn’t even know what testicles were, but I knew that I was somehow different from the other boys in a way that mattered: I was a freak and I could never let anyone else know of my secret. The physical defect corrected itself within two years, but the newly created psychological defect became ever present, even throughout my adult life.

I started to envy other boys and idealize them to the point of making them idols that were to be worshipped. This worship of other boys or men turned to sexual lust. At the same time it caused me to withdraw from many of the usual interactions with males and thus prevented the normal male bonding that needed to take place for me to develop heterosexually. In short, there was a huge hole in the developmental years of my life.


I tried everything I could think of to make it go away, but nothing seemed to work. I went through periods of intense prayer, scripture reading, fasting, service to others, etc., but this didn’t remove the desire, even though I benefited in other ways. Feelings of hopelessness often led to letdowns in my previous resolve to do better.

Only with the men I met for sex did I feel I could find any comfort from my confusion and anger with myself. At one point, I even decided that the gay activists were right – that I was born that way and couldn’t change. That salved my conscience for awhile.

About this time, my wife and I learned, ironically, that our daughter struggled with homosexual desires. In searching for a support group to try to understand and help her, we found Evergreen. As we met with that group, there were a few couples who would attend where the man had been struggling with homosexuality. For the first time, I began meeting men who had overcome their homosexual desires and found peace.


In talking to them, I realized what I had missed doing during all my attempts to overcome all of this: I was trying to do it all myself! I literally thought that when the Lord said, “Be ye therefore perfect,” he meant that I had to perfect myself, including overcoming my homosexual struggles by myself. These men told me that it was only when they humbled themselves before the Lord and asked him to do all that they couldn’t do and to take their lust from them, that healing began and they found themselves free of their constant turmoil and lustful desires and behaviors.

I immediately began asking the Lord to make up for my great weakness and to take these things from me. As I would plead with him, I pictured myself kneeling at an altar with him standing on the other side in all of his glory, and I meekly asked him to take my sins and lustful desires and behaviors from me, and then I literally placed them on the altar. I expected that this was going to be a long, arduous struggle, but I was determined to see it through.

Then he did it! Within a couple of months, I woke up one morning with the sweetest feeling of peace and no raging battles or turmoil within me! As I knelt to pray, that peace increased and left me in tears as I recognized his power had healed me from lustful desires and behaviors. That was over three years ago, and hardly a day has gone past that I haven’t thanked him for his great mercy and grace in taking those things from me.


I am even more grateful that he healed me and took those inappropriate things from me. I am left with a great attraction and appreciation for other men and their various attributes, including looks. My wife and I can now even admire the same men in a humorous kind of way! I know that any of my inappropriate desires or behaviors can come back if I am not doing my part in prayer, study, remaining submissive to his will, etc.

I now feel that I know my Savior and his power through the atonement to be my strength, to help me through my trials as long as I really acknowledge him as my Savior and Redeemer. This I do and hope to do all the days of whatever life I have left. I love him with all of my heart and want nothing more than to do what he wants me to do.

Bob, Brothers on a Road Less Traveled 11 Comments [7/30/2017 1:05:05 PM]
Fundie Index: 7
Submitted By: Katie

Quote# 129954

Seventeen years ago, my life came to a crossroad. In my mind, I could either commit suicide or give God one more chance to change my life and bring it meaning. Prior to coming to this crossroad, I had struggled with my sexual identity as well as depression and anxiety.

My earliest recollections of being attracted to men is when I was six years old. I remember fantasizing about growing up to be a woman and marrying a man. Specific males came to my mind as I considered the kind of man I would marry. They were all muscular, handsome and confident.

Later in life, I learned that these same-sex attractions were manifestations from unresolved emotional and spiritual issues in my life. The decision I came to, at the crossroad, was that I would commit my life to Christ and follow Him. I had grown up in the Church but only at the age of twenty did I really understand that Christ died for my sins and that only through His sacrifice could I receive eternal life. In addition, I began to understand the sanctification process, whereby sins could dissipate and weaknesses could be transformed into strengths.

However, when it came to my sexuality, I had no idea how this was going to change. In fact, I didn't really think there was a possibility of changing my sexual desires. I made a commitment to celibacy, choosing to live with these same-sex desires the rest of my life. I was not connected with ministries helping individuals transition out of homosexuality, and going to counseling was a scary prospect. So I focused my energies on growing in my relationship with Christ. God had specific plans for me. He brought men into my life that loved me and modeled for me what it meant to be both godly and intimate, without any hint of homosexuality. Through my close relationships with these men over a period of ten years, God brought up the unresolved issues in me that needed to be addressed.

Although there was no ministry around at that time to aid me in my journey, God did the same work in my life through relationships, a process analogous to many ex-gay ministries today. The Body of Christ became the instrument for healing in my life. The result was a complete change in my sexual desires from homosexuality to heterosexuality. Today I am married and have two sons.

For the Church to make a decision to bless same-sex unions or ordain practicing homosexuals is to communicate to me, and individuals like me, that the transformation in my life did not happen and that I am obviously in an unhealthy state of denial. As I mentioned above, I did not even know that it would be possible to change my sexual orientation, but God transformed even this area of my life!

To allow for same-sex unions and ordination of practicing homosexuals in the Church is to prevent the opportunity for individuals to even consider that a change is possible. I was an outcast once because I had homosexual desires. If the church changes its standards, I would return to being an outcast in the Church again because my experience would be invalidated. We need to turn to the truth of Scripture and believe that "With God, all things are possible" (Matthew 19:26). Let us keep our hope in God alone and remain faithful to what He has made clear in Scripture in regards to sexuality.

Brad Grammer, Oneby1 3 Comments [7/30/2017 1:04:56 PM]
Fundie Index: 6
Submitted By: Katie

Quote# 129953

I have struggled with homosexual temptation most of my life. By the grace of God I have always been celibate but the struggle for me has been intense. Sadly, the battle was also with my own denomination. In my 22 years as a pastor in the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America I spoke at church conventions for the Biblical standard of celibacy for those with same-sex attraction. Sadly, in 2009 the ELCA adopted a more liberal view and began ordaining practicing homosexuals. I have left the ELCA but I continue in my television ministry to uphold the truth that homosexual behavior is sin, and the fact that I struggle with this temptation does not give me license to practice the behavior.

This summer I testified before a hearing at the convention of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) as they debated whether to change the definition of marriage to include homosexual couples. I explained that I am a person who struggles with same-sex attraction but the last thing I want to see is the Church endorse a behavior that hurts people in this life and which excludes them from the Kingdom in the next (I Corinthian 6:9-11).

I stated: "Is it not arrogant to think that we are somehow more enlightened than all the Christians who came before us?" I believe it is safest to interpret Scripture the way Christians have understood it for 2,000 years and the solid testimony of church history is against homosexual behavior. The Biblical interpretation that has led some denominations astray – notably the ELCA, Presbyterian Church USA, the Episcopal Church in America, and the United Church of Christ – maintains that the Bible does not condemn homosexual behavior per se, but only promiscuous homosexual behavior. As much as part of me – my flesh – would like to believe I can legitimately engage in homosexual behavior, the Bible remains a permanent obstacle. An objective reading of Leviticus 18:22, 20:13, Deuteronomy 22:5, Romans 1:26-27, I Corinthians 6:9-11, I Timothy 1:8-10, Jude 6,7 makes clear that the Bible's condemnation of homosexual behavior is a blanket one. There is never the added caveat: But it is okay if you love each other.

At the Presbyterian convention, one pastor testified that the denomination should allow her to marry lesbians in her congregation because "If I don't I will hurt them." I responded, "No, to encourage them to engage in a behavior which will rob them of salvation, that is what will hurt them."

I was interviewed on Minneapolis radio about my struggle and the interviewer asked, "Pastor Brock, why don't you just go with this orientation as who you are." I responded, "I'm glad I didn't. I'd be dead. Many men my age who went into this lifestyle are dead." Some liberal Lutheran bishops I know believe they are being loving by affirming homosexual behavior. The truth is they are hurting people. As one old Lutheran pastor said, "They are nicing people right into hell." I can't tell you how grievous it was for me with my struggle to hear bishops endorse something that I knew was evil.

So what does one do if one suffers from same-sex attraction? I believe the answer is: fight. Nowhere are we told the Christian life will be easy. I once heard someone say "But God would never ask you to deny something so central to your make-up as homosexuality." I thought, "Why not?" If we believe in the doctrine of original sin – that we are all born sinners because of Adam's fall (Romans 5) – then indeed every Christian is called to battle the sin that is so central to our make-up. One often hears "But I didn't choose this." I can relate. I never consciously asked to have these temptations. But most alcoholics do not wake up one morning and say "I think I'll have a drinking problem." Kleptomaniacs do not say "I think I'll have a problem with shoplifting." We may not choose our temptations in life, but we do choose what we do with our temptations. To be tempted is not sin. Jesus was tempted in Matthew 4. What we do with temptation shows whether we are endeavoring to follow Christ. And, praise God, even if we do fall under temptation, there is forgiveness when we repent and turn to Christ.

What will help people who struggle with same-sex attraction? Of course, regular prayer, Bible reading and being in a good church, a church that has not compromised on this issue. But for most people struggling with same-sex attraction, the crucial key is accountability. I have been part of a Christian support group for those who struggle with same-sex attraction. If you Google "Exodus International" you will most likely find a group in your area where you can join other Christians who have this struggle. Also very important for me are the weekly phone calls I make to my accountability partner who helps keep me on the straight and narrow.

Lastly, where does homosexuality come from? Is it nature (in the genes) or nurture (in one's upbringing)? I lean toward the latter but ultimately it does not matter. Wherever it comes from, we are called upon to follow Christ and say "no" to it. As our Lord Himself stated: "If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me" (Luke 9:23).

Tom Brock, Oneby1 2 Comments [7/30/2017 1:04:47 PM]
Fundie Index: 3
Submitted By: Katie

Quote# 129952

I began to discover and finally deal with the root causes of my same-sex attraction (SSA) – the developmental issues like abuse and bullying and other things that had inadvertently and unconsciously caused me to develop same-sex desires.

After years of trying to pray the attractions away, wish them away, trying willpower and more and more religious zeal, at last I discovered reparative therapy and books and other resources that showed me a way out. I began uncovering and healing the underlying wounds and emotional pain, and as I did, my sexual desire for men began to dissipate, then disappear.

It was a miracle – but not the overnight miracle I had prayed for all those years. It was a hard-work miracle, where God led me to new resources and support and knowledge and people. He led me through the difficult, painful work of healing that I needed to do.

Before, I was powerfully attracted to men sexually, but I didn’t like them as people. I craved their bodies and their attention, but I didn’t like men in a fraternal, platonic way. I didn’t want to be around them. I didn’t feel like one of them.

In therapy, I uncovered abuse issues and dealt with the lingering impact of peer abuse and bullying in my past, as well as my disaffection from my father and other men. I discovered how those things had put me on a track of isolation and alienation from other males and from my own masculinity that I had been unconsciously trying to heal through homosexual lust, without ever realizing that’s what was driving those feelings. I had this lust-hate relationship with men where I wanted them sexually but I had vengeful feelings for them at the same time.


I discovered I have a natural interest in women that feels good and right and pleasurable.
Before, I couldn’t feel attraction to women because I had this intense, almost compulsive desire for men that was blocking me. With that out of the way, I discovered I have a natural interest in women that feels good and right and pleasurable. I’ve been dating women for the past year or two, and I find it’s far more satisfying than my sexual desires for men ever were.

I’ll admit it’s not as intense – and to me, that’s a good thing. My homosexual desires were obsessive, lustful and overpowering. They were more about dominating other men, having power over men. There was almost a sense of revenge.

In contrast, my heterosexual desires are more peaceful, more joyful. They feel more about giving, where my homosexual desires had been more about taking. In being with a woman, I feel like I am coming from a place of wholeness. Before, when I craved men, it felt like I was coming from a wounded place, a place of emptiness. It’s very different. And so much more right for me.

Rob, Brothers on a Road Less Traveled 6 Comments [7/30/2017 1:04:33 PM]
Fundie Index: 3
Submitted By: Katie

Quote# 129951

Dean Bailey, 50, is not afraid to tell anyone he is living proof that ‘sexual orientation’ can in fact be changed. But he prefers to use the word ‘restored’ rather than ‘changed.’

Bailey remembers how from an early age he felt different from other boys. He felt he did not fit in and thought of himself as awkward, out of place. He remembers never feeling treasured or affirmed by his dad who was an alcoholic and who consumed pornography. Bailey believes this began a pattern of turning to other males to find the affirmation he never received from his dad.

When a new outgoing boy began to attend school when Bailey was in grade three, he remembers trying hard to become the boy’s friend. It was during a sleepover at the boy’s house that Bailey was introduced to sexual play, including streaking and oral copulation. The experience not only robbed him of his childhood innocence, but awakened in him a sense of sexual curiosity.

From here, Bailey became preoccupied with images of male nudity and with taking more daring sexual risks with different boys. As he grew older, the sexual acts Bailey performed with other boys became as a source of comfort to him, making him believe he was being loved and accepted.

But while such acts would make him feel good for a while, he says they were never able to help him overcome the constant theme of emptiness and brokenness he felt inside. The sexual activities quickly became addictive.

When a schoolgirl refused to go on a date with him that seemed to signal to the now-teenage Bailey that he was not a normal guy. Then, a few years later, a sexually awkward one-night stand with a woman seemed to confirm to him that he did not have what it took to be a man.

Bailey was now a young man in the military. Although in the meantime he had gotten married, he continued to crave male intimacy and experience gripping same-sex attractions. An intimate but non-sexual encounter with a military male friend whom he greatly admired eventually led to explicit homosexual behaviors.

The encounter severely damaged the relationship Bailey had previously enjoyed with his wife as she felt she could no longer trust the man she had married.

Having experienced homosexual acts, Bailey now struggled inwardly with intense homosexual desires that could only be allayed through carnal gratification, or so it seemed to him. Feelings of insecurity only intensified these inclinations.

His previous homosexual experiences drove him to seek answers to his insecurities through further homosexual encounters. A downwards spiral ensued as Bailey attempted to satisfy his desires, but only saw them grow in intensity the more he indulged them. Looking back, Bailey now realizes how homosexual acts had become an addiction for him.

Bailey credits God for acting powerfully in his life to save him from himself, change his life for the good, and ultimately bring about his deliverance from homosexual attractions. God led him on a journey of trust that ultimately led to the heart of Jesus Christ. Here Bailey experienced the love, acceptance, and affirmation he had always craved.

To put it simply, says Bailey, he fell in love with the person of Jesus. He experienced Him through prayer and through reading the Bible. All Bailey wanted now was to become more like Jesus, more Christ-like. As he began acting more and more on this desire, Bailey noticed a transformation begin to take place in his sexual desires. The homosexual desires began to decrease. For the first time in his life, Bailey began to see himself differently, this time through the eyes of a Savior who — he now realized — loved him unconditionally.

Looking back on his past, Bailey says he now sees that he has been brought out of what he calls the “sexual confusion of homosexual behaviors” to a sexual clarity in mind and heart. He has left behind what he calls the “self-defeating environment of my own, very negative self-image” and moved into an unshakable understanding of his value and self worth as a beloved child of God.

Bailey wrote about his entire journey in his 2011 book titled “Beyond the Shades of Gray.” Most of the book is available online at his website. He speaks publicly about his struggle with homosexuality, telling audiences that homosexuality is a “sexual addiction and dependency,” not a condition to be socially accepted and celebrated. “It is merely one of the many evidences of the broken, spiritual condition of our human race,” he tells people.

In an interview with LifeSiteNews from Texas where he lives with his wife Della and his two college-aged daughters, Amber and Amanda, Bailey spoke about what he has gained by leaving behind the homosexual identity, the role of God in bringing about sexual healing, about his views on the Christian understanding of homosexuality, and about why stories like his are shunned by the mainstream.

Dean Bailey, LifeSiteNews 4 Comments [7/30/2017 1:04:17 PM]
Fundie Index: 5
Submitted By: Katie

Quote# 129947

No Zampogna I kicked hid left winged radical butt for suggesting that I was a fag and then insisting when it was clear that I was not that I was and was not aware of it. I have not, am not, nor ever will be a homosexual and I have been quite aware of this for my whole life. This jerk was at the forefront of this brainwashing and propaganda that the queer lobby, NEA, and Left winged nut cases who are destroying what is left of the country have been using to distort and confuse the sexuality issue and gender. The whole thing is bogus but there are to many bullies in those movements that have been able to scare adults and keep good parents from fighting to keep this garbage out. He deserved what he got and any so called doctor who uses Psychiatry as a tool to lie and make this perversion normal should all be banned from medicine and licensing because there is no and never has been any evidence that it is natural no a born in condition but intact there is proof and evidence that it is what it always has been an issue of choice and personal preference. I knew this nut case was using psycho-babble to try to make me question my sexuality which was a huge mistake i am very well aware of my sexuality and preferences I also understood his annoying tactics and was not going to allow this circular thinking and reverse psychology methods to mess me up I don't play that crap.

James Southern, Christian News Network 9 Comments [7/30/2017 1:03:18 PM]
Fundie Index: 7

Quote# 129946

Fossils prove the flood in Genesis:

Fossils were formed when minerals (silica, especially) penetrated the tissues of plants and animals - under extreme pressure - turning them to stone; the result of being buried in mud under miles of water for a year.

Reptiles never stop growing as long as they live and the lifespan of some animals can be determined by the size of their fangs, horns, tusks or antlers. Trees and some grasses also never stop growing until they die.

Fish rot, or get eaten when they die, they don't turn into fossils. But fish fossils are found at high altitudes all over the world.

The only reason why fossils exist is because of the flood; 5000 years ago everything lived about ten times longer because the atmosphere was like a hyperbaric chamber (we know this from air samples extracted from fossilized sap). Science validates The Bible.

All Hail Jesus!, Y! answers 12 Comments [7/30/2017 1:03:08 PM]
Fundie Index: 8

Quote# 129939

The Left rejects the New Atheists because it was never truly atheist or secular. It is merely anti-Christian and anti-Western. The Left embraces Islam because it presently serves as a more effective anti-Christian weapon than the atheism or secular humanism upon which it previously relied.

The heart of the Left is Neo-Babelism, which is inherently globalist and Satanic in nature. All of its various ideologies, from communism to feminism to neo-liberalism to progressivism, are nothing more than the skinsuits it wears in its endless war against God. But unlike the New Atheists, the Neo-Babelists are not warring against the idea of God, much less questioning His existence. They are actually at war with the Almighty Himself, and His son, Jesus Christ.

Vox Day, Vox Popoli 18 Comments [7/30/2017 1:03:03 PM]
Fundie Index: 9

Quote# 129938

(Responding to her own story "Man sentenced for stabbing date 119 times after learning his date was a man pretending to be a woman"):

NOTE: This was posted on Lady Checkmate's NEWS channel "News Network" and not her "Christian" channel:

"We must NOT ignore the fact that Mr. Hickerson was raped and deceived into an act of abomination by another man, Mr. Whigham, who falsely presented himself as a woman, knowingly and intentionally lied to Mr. Hickerson to deceive him and trick him into unnatural sex with him, i.e., rape. Both were victims of Mr. Whigham's con and deception.

There should be laws against deception and con artists tricking straight people into homosexual sex. If there was such a law in place, then Mr. Whigham's deception could've been addressed formally and NOT just some game that the sexually immoral (they to) play on straight people.

Prayers for ALL involved."

Lady Checkmate, Disqus - News Network 13 Comments [7/30/2017 1:02:57 PM]
Fundie Index: 3
Submitted By: Jocasta

Quote# 129936

My daughter practiced Falun Dafa at the age of three. Before the onset of the persecution in 1999, I took her with me when I talked to people about this cultivation practice, to group practice, and to group Fa-study.

When she was not feeling well, she told herself that she was fine because Master was protecting her. As she became a teenager, she began to struggle with her sexual identity. I asked Master to give me courage and compassion, so that I could help my daughter, and she ultimately returned to cultivate in Dafa.

My daughter turned into a withdrawn teenager and no longer wanted to share her thoughts with me. I thought that this was just a phase, but gradually she became even quieter.

When I read her diary one day, I found out that she was struggling with her sexual identity. This was shocking news and I almost collapsed.

I knew that only Dafa could save her, but she refused to read Master’s teachings with me.

“I know Dafa is good,” she said, “but the requirements are too high for me. You go ahead and cultivate, and I will do what I’m fond of.”

Our friends said that they knew many young people who were lesbians or homosexuals, but we could not accept the fact that our daughter was a lesbian.

To help her resolve her identity crisis, I took her to psychologists and tried a number of different methods, but nothing worked. Ultimately, I no longer could discuss the subject with her. She even signed an agreement to end the father-daughter relationship with my husband. We felt desperate.

We could only hope that she would change after entering college, but that did not happen either. She actually dated another girl.

I cried every time I thought about her. Since we could not face each other, I began to write to her. While watching her sound asleep one night, I typed a very long letter to her with tears in my eyes.

“Dear daughter,” I said, “you’re my only child. This world is a pit filled with poisons, but you should not fall like so many others have done.”

While we were in despair, I heard a voice in my mind that said, “Falun Buddha Fa, the mighty Buddha powers are boundless.” The world brightened and brought happiness to my mind.

Master said,

“I can tell you, we're cultivators, so you need to treat all of the sentient beings around you as compassionately as you can.”

“I think that you absolutely shouldn't be discouraged or apathetic. Do this compassionately no matter who it is, and with a compassion that can melt steel you'll be able to do it well.” (“Explaining the Fa During the 2003 Lantern Festival at the U.S. West Fa Conference”)

With hope rising in my mind, I pleaded, “Master, please help my daughter return to Dafa.”

As I was feeling hopeful, my daughter and husband had another fight. She was so upset that she left home and stayed overnight in an airport. Fortunately, she called me and after some discussion agreed to stay at her friend’s place.

After she came home a week later, I made her favorite food, and treated her just like before. I treated her with unconditional compassion.

I began to read Dafa books in her room after she returned, and also shared with her my cultivation experience and the beauty of Dafa. I noticed that she did not turn away, so I suggested, “Shall we read Dafa books together again?” She replied, “Mom, I’ll read Zhuan Falun with you tomorrow.” I could hardly believe my ears. Thanking Master from the bottom of my heart, I said, “My daughter is back!”

We finished watching Master’s nine-day lecture DVDs during the following two days, and also read Zhuan Falun repeatedly. At night, my husband watched the Nine Commentaries of the Communist Party DVDs with us. When it was showing practitioners being tortured, my daughter said with tears in her eyes, “Mom, if the evil people are not punished, there is no heaven’s law.”

She also enjoys the NTD television programs very much, and asked her father to watch them with her.

“I’ve read hundreds of books since grade school,” she said to her father, “but only Zhuan Falun has changed me.”

Witnessing the extraordinary change in our daughter, my husband changed his attitude toward Dafa. He now reads Zhuan Falun with us.

It is Falun Dafa that brought good fortune to my family and the return to a harmonious life.

Unknown author, Minghui 3 Comments [7/30/2017 1:02:44 PM]
Fundie Index: 2
Submitted By: Katie

Quote# 129922

[Commenting under "Moneyball Sentencing"]


One is punishing for past crimes, not trying to predict the future. One is preventing recidivism in the most reliable way, by death. Start the count at the real age of adulthood, 14. No violent repeat offender makes it to 18, and the start of their busy period of crime. Any deterrence is incidental and an added benefit.

Because each conviction has to stand in for an average of 10 other crimes, by the time one gets to 3, one knows the defendant is a bad guy. His innocence of the third crime is not a problem, because ha has committed many hundreds of crimes.

Supremacy Claus, Sentencing Law and Policy 3 Comments [7/30/2017 1:02:14 PM]
Fundie Index: 6
Submitted By: JeanP

Quote# 129945

After reading some articles about letting go of lust, I would like to share my experience. Some practitioners around me have been interfered with due to lust, and I am among them.

Some practitioners who appear to cultivate diligently also have these problems. They include some older practitioners, some couples who are both practitioners, and some who had let go of lust a long time ago. I was enlightened because it is the last stage of Fa-rectification, and those attachments will surface. We should identify them, pay attention to these problems, and let go of them.

Below is what I saw when I sent forth righteous thoughts in the group. This is a personal sharing, and I hope fellow practitioners can judge it based on the Fa.

I saw all Dafa disciples in different corners of the world kneeling down, facing Master. Master stood on a gigantic lotus flower, surrounded by peaceful clouds. Master's appearance changed constantly, sometimes appearing as a Buddha, sometimes as a Dao, and sometimes as a divine being. The disciples all called out to Master, “Master, it is time to return. Please bring us back home!”

Master quietly pointed toward a sea, where tides rose and fell and the bank was crowded with boats. There were a man and a woman there who looked like the old forces. The woman had a pink lotus flower in one hand and a gourd with medicine in the other. She poured the liquid in the gourd onto the roots of the lotus. At the microscopic level, it consisted of tiny worms called Gu, a legendary venomous insect. The man did the same but with a black lotus flower; tiny worms called Huo could be seen at the microscopic level. They put the lotus flowers into the sea, and those black worms and pink worms tangled together. The water instantly turned smooth and psychedelic, with pink bubbles. The sea was called the “sea of ending relationships,” also known as the sea of suffering and the sea of desire (corresponding to the demon of sentimentality and the demon of lust).

The sea of suffering is boundless but does have a shore. The sea of lust seems endless, but it does have a bank.

On the other side of the sea was Tiananmen Square, above which were layers upon layers of heavenly beings waiting for the final judgment. They all looked on seriously and were awaiting the final order. (Jiang Zemin was also there, appearing as the eye of a dead fish. A hook from heaven was waiting for him.)

An elder with the appearance of a Dao was holding a knife. A black flood would come from heaven to immerse the earth.

All Dafa disciples, including those who had passed away, would board the ferryboats at the sea and sail to the other side. After the final judgment, they would ascend to heaven in broad daylight (bairi feisheng) from Tiananmen Square. Every Dafa disciple who can ride over the sea must be pure. Anyone who has even a tiny bit of hidden lust or sentimental desire would be ruined by the sea and buried there along with their boats, never to reincarnate. The million and billions of years of waiting, along with Master's merciful salvation, would be in vain.

We are the hope of sentient beings, and we shoulder the enormous responsibility of assisting Master to rectify the Fa. Our friends and relatives around us are all here for the Fa and rely on us to return. We cannot be buried in the sea of suffering because of our own desires.

Unknown author, Minghui 0 Comments [7/30/2017 9:22:20 AM]
Fundie Index: 3
Submitted By: Katie

Quote# 129944

My spiritual journey started off as one on a path of darkness and deception to a path of light and truth. The Lord has not only delivered from the demonic bondage of an occult past and heretical theology, but has also allowed me to experience Him in life-changing beautiful ways I never imagined were possible.

I remember first learning about God when I was in Kindergarten when I had asked my mother where the world came from and was told that many people believe that God created the world. I pondered on that thought for an entire day and felt confident that seemed logical. I was curious about where God came from, what God was like, and why He seemed so silent, but the theological answers to those questions were beyond the capacity of a child.

I was somewhat intrigued about God for a brief time, but what started as a positive spiritual course quickly went far into the completely opposite direction. I don’t remember how it all started, but I quickly came under a very dark influence and was completely intrigued by the idea of Satan being my father. Indeed, I became a child-Satanist. I truly believed and so verbally confessed that Satan was my true father and that I was a son of Satan. I would, in fact, often pray to demons to enter me to give me power. I was obsessed with the idea of having power, being feared, and controlling others, and believed I could obtain that by from demons.

I asked the demons in, and they came in. I became filled with terrible profanity and developed sexual and demonic obsessions. I spent large portions of my time daydreaming about perverse sexual fantasies (such that you would never imagine a child could have) and also constant fantasies regarding all the power of Satan awaiting me. At times, the demons in me would manifest. During those moments, they would fill me a demonic hatred for a person which would sometimes result in a burst of violence. For instance, in the third grade when I got mad at another child, I grabbed him by the throat and completely lifted him off the ground – his feet were dangling as I choked him with a single hand and his classmates beat on me to let him go. This is not possible in the natural for a child to have such strength to lift another child off of the ground completely with one hand. Just before it happened, I felt the surge of a demon giving me demonic strength and filling me with incredible hatred.

In addition to demonic strength, Satan gave me two other occult abilities. There was a particular instance at a restaurant where I conjured up a flame. My brothers kept teasing me when I explained what I was doing, but after several minutes of internal focus that flame shot up in the air. This was at a large family gathering – everyone saw it and was completely shocked. To this day, this event has been brought up again and again by my family members who saw it.

The other occult ability was the ability to speak in a demonic tongue. Almost every day, usually for 20 minutes, I would pace back and forth as I prayed in a demonic tongue. Absolutely no one had told me what “tongues” were – I had never heard the concept in any religion. I didn’t even fully understand it myself, but the ability to do so was given to me, and I was strangely compelled to pray in this demonic tongue daily. The words of this language sounded dark and twisted, and as I prayed in this demonic tongue, it filled me with a dark spiritual energy.

I never showed them to anybody, but I often drew pictures of evil demons and of people being tormented in Hell in terribly morbid ways. Rarely, I would also receive dreams from a demon. These were no ordinary dreams, nor any self-imagined nightmare, for they had a very strong unholy spiritual presence to them. In the same way people can receive dreams from God, the devil can give people dreams as well. These dreams would try to pull me deeper into the occult by planting some sort of dark desire inside of me. Usually these dreams were about the choice between being a vampire or a shapeshifter, but also a strong pull to commit a particular sin. (This may be very hard to believe for those ignorant of the occult realm, but real Satanists when they reach a certain rank, choose between becoming a vampire or a shapeshifter. These “fictional” concepts in the movies actually take their inspiration from the occult. While these are not entirely like their portrayal in the movies, high-ranking Satanists do have the extreme demonic power to become those things. Just as angels and demons can take on different forms, so too, when can they so possess a person’s body can use those same demonic powers to change the occultist’s body. Satan often pressed upon me which choice I would make if I kept on the path of Satanism.)

As a Satanist, I didn’t hate God, I simply rarely thought about Him – He seemed like a very distant figure. When I did think about God, I was filled with strong jealousy. Yes, sadly, I very jealously wanted to be God. I didn’t understand the Trinitarian view of Christ’s Deity, and so when I imagined Jesus, I imagined him as a weak man without real power and wanted nothing to do with Him.

I did not share this with anyone for a long time, but I had also developed homosexual attractions at this young age and actually engaged in homosexual practices. But since I was still incredibly lustful towards women, “bisexual” would be the correct term for my sexual orientation. I was not delivered of these gay tendencies until much later on, which I will get to later.


The next pinnacle spiritual event in my life that took place was a very unpleasant, yet completely necessary, event to deliver me from my dark past. As I explained earlier in my testimony, I was once a Satanist that invited many demons into my soul, to the point of having demonic abilities. But where had all of those demons gone? Due to my old Baptist background, I was always under the impression that Christians could not have demons. In fact, I feel embarrassed when I look back on the moments when I once assured other Christians that it’s impossible for believers to have demons. I know that may sound logical, but it’s actually not true. There are no Scriptures at all that state this, but since the Bible is not explicitly clear on the issue, many have just assumed it is not possible – an erroneous assumption indeed. The reasoning is that ‘light and darkness can’t mix, therefore the Holy Spirit and demons couldn’t possibly both live in the same body’. Despite this reasoning, the Bible doesn’t actually say that, and I was soon about to experientially discover this assumption was false.

I had come to realize that the many demons I invited in my soul had never really left me. It was not as though they just magically disappeared when I first received Christ in my heart. The reason I never felt them leave was because they never had left. Scripturally, demons have never left a person without being cast out. I wished it were not true, but I could absolutely feel evil spirits inside of me. They were basically in hiding for a long time, but at different times in the strong presence of God is when I could feel them surface because God’s presence had made them uncomfortable, squirmy, and/or angry. What I once wanted inside of me for power, I now desperately wanted out. In short, my pastor met with me regularly over a period of several weeks to lead me into renunciation prayers regarding my occult and sinful past, followed by commanding any demons associated with those things to leave.

Being something completely outside my control, demons would manifest as they came out. This experience was very unpleasant, to say the least. When the demons were commanded to come out, they would often manifest and fight for control for a brief moment. I was helplessly unable to stop them from manifesting – they would make me fall to the ground and shake my body, and they came out in very loud eerie screams and shrieks, sometimes deep growling as well. Although unpleasant and even a scary, I could feel the force of evil leaving me. The light of Christ was freeing me from my dark past.

Each deliverance session was different. (Among evangelical Christians, the word “deliverance” is used instead of “exorcism” to distinguish it from Catholic methods for casting out demons.) Many demons were easy to cast out, but some of them were stubborn. To be honest, I was very scared during some of these sessions. The experience of feeling demons inside you, manifesting your body without your control, and feeling them fight to stay inside of you is a very terrible experience, to say the least. It was common that afterwards I would feel extremely exhausted. This was probably the hardest thing I had went through in my Christian walk at that time. I had invited so many demons into me several years ago, and one by one they were now coming out.

Many people have asked me what I felt like afterwards. It’s difficult to describe, but it was basically like a spiritual “heaviness” that was always there now being permanently removed. Each demon that came out was like taking off a jacket I had worn for such a long time unknowingly. I felt “light”, free, cleansed, and spiritually rejuvenated. Additionally, many things I had dealt with all these years left me because they were caused by those demons. I used to have strange perverse dreams, random very difficult struggles with hate, and various health problems that all left after I was delivered from the demons. I didn’t realize just how much of my strange health problems were actually caused by demons. For example, I used to have strange experiences of feeling some sort of incredibly heavy weight of tiredness and brain fog pressed upon me that was very mentally oppressive – it was sort of like having the worst imaginable jet lag in the world. That went away of course when the demon that would cause it was rebuked.

Demons do in fact cause people to struggle with strong sinful drives and health problems until they are cast out. I thought these things were normal struggles of mine, but realized they were actually due to the demons all along. Although a terrible thing to go through, it was necessary, and consequently I experienced a freedom I never knew was possible. When all was said and done, I continued my spiritual journey in the Lord.

Christopher Jethro, GodRevelations 7 Comments [7/30/2017 9:22:05 AM]
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Submitted By: Katie
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