What I meant was Jesus did not make women SPIRITUALLY equal to men, he did however give them rights they did not have before. He treated them with dignity.
Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
Jesus did not violate this curse nor did he free us from it. We still hurt in childbirth, men still have to provide for us and we still need to be in subjections to our husbands.
43 comments
Weird.
I just had a debate on another forum with someone making the argument that Christianity "lifted up" women by making them spiritually equal with men.
I guess that makes you wrong, eh?
I guess Jesus loves me best then, because all four of my bilogical childrens' births were very comfortable and far from sorrowful or painful (and all were completely natural, w/out any anesthesia). I felt pressure and some unimpressive discomfort, that's about it. Hell, my mom didn't even know she was in labor with my oldest sister til she was about ready to push!
I actually find it rather offensive for them to imply that childbirth and pregnancy are a "curse".
Oh also, I'll be subject to my husband and helpless (i.e., need to be provided for) when friggin pigs fly. I guess this is the kind of crap you have to force yourself to believe when you're a brainless idiot who takes the Bible literally.
Funny how theres no mention of Jesus ever saying men should rule over women, only Paul saying it. Jesus did make men and women spirtual equals, Paul tried to make women inferior.
But thats taking the Bible in context so I doubt a fundie would realize that.
"We still hurt in childbirth, men still have to provide for us and we still need to be in subjections to our husbands."
1. Epidurals. 2. Jobs. 3. No.
Isn't it great that any human being would be rendered automatically subordinate to another human being because of a single chromosome? Oh, the character of the individual has nothing to do with it at all.
Face it, fundies. There are men who would rather be followers, and there are women who would rather be leaders - gender has almost nothing to do with personal merit. And if your God makes women somehow innately below men, I wouldn't worship him anyway, even if I did believe he exists.
And we have pains in childbirth because we walk upright. Our pelvic bones had to reorient themselves to support the weight of our bodies, and so our birth canals narrowed over time. That's why until the modern era, childbirth was so dang dangerous. It's not a curse, it's (gasp) EVOLUTION!
Did you ever stop to consider that childbirth hurts because you are squeezing a ten-pound baby out of a hole in your body that normally is the size of a half-dollar?
If someone thinks he rules over you by virtue of having a penis, he is not treating you with dignity.
No man provides for me. Oh no! Also, I choose to read that verse meaning that women will be horny and men will decide to pout and not sleep with their wives... strange how so many have that opposite.
"We still hurt in childbirth,"
So do other animals, did dogs eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil too?
No. A. Most persons, men and women, are capable of providing for themselves, and B. Unless I choose to, I don't have to provide for anyone.
No, you may choose to be in subjection, but you don't NEED to be.
Sorry girl, Esther, Deborah, Mary Magdalene, and Jesus disagree. Why do fundies always put Paul's words and thoughts in Jesus mouth? You'd think that they never read the damn Bible.
Just as its part of the curse that we have to hurt in childbirth, it is also part of the curse that our men rule over us.
So anesthesia is against the will of God?
Thats odd, from my understanding jesus considered women equal with men, didn't say everyone are children of god?
i hate fundies sometimes.. gotta mix paul up with jesus, and they still don't understand either
@ Flipper:
Don't forget Jael, Judith, Miriam, and Zipporah, and there was a woman named Phoebe that Paul, of all people, spoke approvingly of in one of his letters (she was an early church leader).
It's very funny, because I'm sure your husband is not a peasant but a tie-n-collar worker. At least, if you're going to quote a Biblical passage, quote them with all the consequences. Moreover, childbirth is just that, childbirth. It's like saying that men are inferior because they can suffer hemophilia or prostatic cancer. Or because they can die from a kick on the bollocks. And check again the NT, if women were not spiritually equal to men, the whole business would have knocked down long ago.
So, if you're not spiritually equal to your husband, for no good reason, the notion of sin is invalid. Besides, if your husband is working in a tie-n-collar job, he's also violating, apparently, one of God's words. Shouldn't be working the land and sweating?, be consistent.
Until men everywhere quit their jobs and start working in the fields (with Bronze Age tools, no less) like they're supposed to (according to Adam's curse), you fundies can shut the heck up about the "curse of childbirth."
The whole thing is a complete bullshit. First of all, the pain in childbirth is due to biological reasons, so, please, stop saying nonsense. Second, if they´re not equal spiritually wise to men, why are they accounted for the same sins ON THEIR OWN?, in other words, why isn´t the husband accounted too?, if she commits a sin, why does she do it herself only?
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
To post a comment, you'll need to Sign in or Register . Making an account also allows you to claim credit for submitting quotes, and to vote on quotes and comments. You don't even need to give us your email address.
