Some of you people are morons. Well then again if I call you that I've insulted the other morons. What [the Abu Ghraib guards] did was NOT torture. Torture is having your head cut off with a sword. Torture is being beaten until your bones break & then after they have healed having them broken again. Torture is having your nails removed with pliers or having your knuckles broken. What happened to those people was a minor inconvience,not torture.
62 comments
Come here, I'd like to inconvenience you. Since you're such a big, tough hombre, I'm sure you won't mind.
To prove your point, why don't you let someone "faceslap", "wall", "collar", dangle (chain your arms above your head awkwardly for days), or "waterboard" you.
Notice especially how people can only withstand some of these for seconds, not minutes. Also note the Chicago radio host who experienced waterboarding for a grand total of 6 seconds, declared it torture, and said it was worse than drowning.
Finally, the use of quotation marks in my first paragraph was slightly excessive. Those are words I pulled from the legal memos justifying these terrible actions.
I rest my case. Proven you wrong, and I didn't even pass the bar.
I don't get it. Where's the religion/fundamentalist here?
(Yes, I know our friends the RRers have similar beliefs to this dude, but now you're just generalizing.)
@ Painful
You don't need religion to be a fundie, from the FAQ description of a "fundie":
It should be noted that one can be religious--even a fundamentalist--but not actually attain the vaunted status of "fundie," which needs that special touch only people fitting stereotypical caricatures can provide. Additionally, religion is technically not even a pre-requisite for this, although blind adherence to its ideologies (and those of politics) is perhaps the #1 source of fundies in the universe. Rigid, arrogant, "know-it-all-and-confidently-force-it-on-everyone-else" authoritarian strains of both amplify the propensity to fundyism, while more moderate, "this-seems-like-a-good-idea-but-might-be-wrong, so-let's-not-be-total-jackasses-about-it" varieties can keep it in check or even undermine it.
(timjamiller)
Well, if she looks hot enough in high heels and latex... *lascivious grin*
Oh, but I digress. *ahem* Carry on, then.
Fine, let's strip you naked and have a dog viciously nipping at your jewels.
And while your still naked let's contort you and about 10 other men in a human tetris game.
Let's tie you down to a table, and pour water on your face.
Let's assault your ears with loud noise 24 hours a day.
Then come back and tell us that was a "minor inconvenience".
Torture doesn't have to cause physical injury or death. Psychological torture can be worse than physical torture.
Asshole.
So when people died during these' minor inconveniences", could we say it was torture then?
Why is it when I read or hear comments from people like OU maniac I think they neither understand what really went on at Abu Ghraib (and Bagram and Gitmo) and wouldn't last 5 seconds if they were "inconvenienced"?
Well then OUmaniac, where do you live?
No it's ok, we here at FSTDT will just come over and waterboard you and other things to you that you don't believe is torture but just a minor inconvience.
Well, where do you live OUmaniac the internet tough guy?
Then why did the Bush administration approve these "minor inconveniences" to be carried out on foreign soil and often in secret? Hell, they could have made them sit in a traffic jam or pay taxes instead.
Oh, and by the way, having your head cut off with a sword is not torture, though it might end the torture of having to listen to morons such as you.
Let's assume, for the sake of discussion, that the actions of the Abu Ghraib guards wasn't torture. (A premise I personally disagree with, but that's not relevant for the purposes of making my point.)
Even as not torture, what they did was cruel and heartless. They exploited weakness and used it for their own gain. Even absent a definition of torture, their actions are not to be praised or emulated.
Part of the nature of war, to the occupying nation, is to win the hearts and minds of the residents of the occupied nation. It helps further your own goals and does not breed resentment.
The actions of the Abu Ghraib guards, therefore, failed us as a nation. It didn't have to be torture to be wrong.
Deny it all you want, but causing someone prolonged pain is still torture.
"Some of you people are morons."
... and then...
"AOL News"
Well that just speaks for itself.
"What happened to those people was a minor inconvience,not torture."
Come over here and let me "inconvenience" you and we'll see just how "minor" it is.
Abu Ghraib abuse practices:
An Abu Ghraib testimony: 'Do you pray to Allah?' one asked. I said yes. They said, '[Expletive] you. And [expletive] him.' One of them said, 'You are not getting out of here health[y], you are getting out of here handicapped. And he said to me, 'Are you married?' I said, 'Yes.' They said, 'If your wife saw you like this, she will be disappointed.' One of them said, 'But if I saw her now she would not be disappointed now because I would rape her.' " [...] "They ordered me to thank Jesus that I'm alive." [...] "I said to him, 'I believe in Allah.' So he said, 'But I believe in torture and I will torture you.'
Yep, sure sounds like just minor inconvience, certainly not torture. [/sarc]
Then I'm sure you won't mind enduring sleep deprivation, watching your Bible being flushed down the toilet, being forced into naked man pyramids, and being water boarded.
Well, if you think so I am sure that you don´t mind having to experience waterboarding for yourself.
There are lots of people who initially thought waterboarding is just an inconvenience, but rapidly changed their mind after trying it out for themselves ;)
You're right. What happened at Abu Ghraib was not torture. Torture is far too mild a word to describe that. Words like "atrocity" and "crimes against humanity" come a little closer.
I try to keep my cool on here, but OUmaniac, you are a fucking asshole. You have no soul and no regard for human life, dignity or decency. If I believed in God, I would pray for you. As I don't, I don't know what to do.
Torture is the use of extreme violence to force a "confession".
Putting a noose around someones neck and pulling on it chocking on them, is torture.
And torture doesn't always cause broken bones or even bleeding. Tieing someone down to a table and pouring gallons of waters on their head is just as bad as holding someone's head down in a tub.
Minor inconviences. Unless it happens to you right? Shit at least Mancow allowed himself to be. 6 seconds sure, but he did it. And said it was. Then add in the other actions taken. Had they done it, you'd be crying torture. Let us not be hypocrites so they can use these things as recruiting tools but call it what it is and END it
"Torture is having your head cut off with a sword."
No, that's called "execution".
"What happened to those people was a minor inconvience, not torture."
"Minor inconvenience" my ass. How on Earth could you write it off as such? You must be in deep denial.
Alright, so it's cool if I waterboard you? I mean, it'd prove your point, and if it's just a minor inconvenience surely you can spare an hour or two...
Torture is having your head cut off with a sword.
What happened to those people was a minor inconvience,not torture.
@katie5000
If OUmaniac gets any deeper into denial, he'd be in Australia by now!
image
The primary excuse given for torture is to extract information. Not that I believe it actually gets anything accurate. After all, people were tortured in the witch persecutions, and they confessed to breast-feeding snakes.
Now, it would be quite impressive if you managed to question someone whose head you had cut off with a sword, but most of us are not necromancers.
It may not be permanantly disfiguring, but it's a total mindfuck. And things like stress positions *do* cause permanant damage. Also, it's totally ineffective for getting good information. Whether you call it torture or not (which is is), it only exists to be neocon fap material. In no way does it make us safer. In fact, it makes us less safe, because extremist groups will use it as recruitment material to get people to join them, who would otherwise have nothing to do with them.
I wish people, left and right, would stop talking about waterboarding and move onto the stuff that went on at Abu Gharib that you can't talk about on the evening news.
Like the several suspects beaten to death, anal rape, sexual abuse of children and insertion of a goddamn flashlight into some poor bastards ass.
That would end the torture 'debate' right there.
Your first example is not torture: it's execution. And there is such a thing as psychological torture, to say nothing of torture meant to cause physical pain without necessarily resulting in major injury. Would you classify putting someone on the rack as torture if major damage was never caused to any of their limbs during the process?
Beheading actually sounds like the least torturous of the three. Shows what kind of moral latitude we're working with: NONE. Torture is vile in any form, and just because you don't get why it's so horrible doesn't mean something isn't torture. You haven't been through it, have you?
Why don't you put your money where your mouth is then and submit to waterboarding?
All the loudmouths who did that ate their words.
Or perhaps you'd prefer to strip naked and have a flashlight jammed up your ass? Maybe whilst some crazy guard dogs are trying to tear you apart. It's just an inconvenience after all.
What is it with fundys? They really have a harsh, cruel attitude and a disregard ans insensitivity towards the suffering of others. I have heard fundys talking about bringing back the lash. There ia some outfit that sells lengths of plastic water supply hoses to be used to
I suffer from panic disorder, water boarding terrifies me because it has to bring in
What kind of monster are you.
suffering
Calling you a moron would insult all other morons.
Torture is water-boarding, fake drowning, be separated from your spouse and children for long periods, be deprived of food, water and day-light.
Having your head cut off kind of ends the torture, that would be murder. Having to watch your son's head cut off with a sword is torture, though.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
To post a comment, you'll need to Sign in or Register . Making an account also allows you to claim credit for submitting quotes, and to vote on quotes and comments. You don't even need to give us your email address.
