Some people have wrongly assumed that Matthew and Luke (the author of Acts) are contradictory in their account of Judas’ death. Since the Bible is inerrant Judas cannot have died by hanging and died by falling and bursting open. Rather they are two different viewpoints of the same event. For example, if I saw a car hit a pedestrian, I might simply say that the pedestrian died because they were hit by the car. The coroner who came on the scene later but did not actually see the accident might give a graphic description of the injuries to the pedestrian. Both the coroner and I are describing the same event just different aspects of it.
Matthew tells us that Judas died by hanging (death is inferred from the passage). Luke, being a doctor, gives us a graphic description of what occurred following the hanging. The reason for ordering the events as such is twofold. First, if someone has fallen and their internal organs spilled out they would die and so could not subsequently die from hanging. Secondly, even when people suffer bad falls they do not usually burst open and have their internal organs spill out. The skin is very tough and even when cut in the abdominal area their internals do not usually spill out. Thus, it is unlikely that Judas could die in this manner merely from falling.
Gruesome as it is, Judas’ dead body hung in the hot sun of Jerusalem, and the bacteria inside his body would have been actively breaking down tissues and cells. A byproduct of bacterial metabolism is often gas. The pressure created by the gas forces fluid out of the cells and tissues and into the body cavities. The body becomes bloated as a result. In addition, tissue decomposition occurs compromising the integrity of the skin. Judas’ body was similar to an overinflated balloon, and as he hit the ground (due to the branch he hung on or the rope itself breaking) the skin easily broke and he burst open with his internal organs spilling out.
There is no contradiction surrounding Judas’ death; rather, merely two descriptions given by two different authors of the same event.
66 comments
Ah, apologetics. Never underestimate the fruits of the combined labour of 2000+ years worth of wasted clergy brain cells.
(So, according to Acts, Judas bought a field with his silver pieces, where he fell headlong and splattered. According to Matthew, he cast his reward in the temple and then went off to hang himself. So we are to conclude that Judas bought the field from the temple with the explicit aim to hang himself in the middle of it, before falling headlong (however that orientation could be achieved falling from a noose) and splattering. That makes a LOT more sense than just having two conflicting accounts of a legendary bad guy's death. Yuh-hup.)
And in the Mind Olympics, the gold medal for Mental Gymnastics goes to...
Also, that surely means Luke hung around for a couple of weeks just watching Judas decompose. That's... that's all kinds of messed up.
But did he die from the hanging or from the fall?
In the case of you and the coroner, the reason for dying would be the same, car hitting person = death.
But in the case of The Babble, falling and bursting open =/= death. Even an idiot would understand that the cause of death would be the hanging, not the falling, if one happened after the other and both stories weren't just made up.
Well,
one would assume that a doctor would also write something concerning the probable causes of his death, which, as you say, isn´t falling headlong and splitting open ;)
And it wouldn´t solve the contradictions concerning the money he got for betraying Jesus. In one version he gives the whole money back to the priests (because it too much reminds him of his betrayal) in the other version he buys the field with this money (before falling headlong on this field and brusting asunder)
So he died from hanging and then his rotting corpse somehow fell headlong despite being attached (upright) at the neck and burst open upon hitting the ground.All this after he either gave the money back or spent it on the field he supposedly splattered in!
Was that before or after gravity was changed?
So, why did Judas get so mistreated? Can you answer that one?
In your book, Judas was a good guy, doing exactly what god and jesus wanted him to do, what he needed to do. If Judas had not "betrayed" jesus, then the whole crucifixion thing couldn't happen. Judas was carrying out divine will doing what he did.
Seems that Judas here has been maligned for doing exactly what god wanted. Either he didn't know what he was doing, and god caused him to act this way, or jesus told Judas what was up, and Judas knew the crap he'd get for doing it.
Either way, if he ever existed, Judas has had a bad reputation he didn't earn.
Seen this excuse before. Some have even tried to explain the money by claiming Judas left the money in the temple and the priests bought the field he hung himself in.
Oh, no, That's not reaching or adding or rewritting, they say. Sorry sheep. Those are two DIFFERENT reports
I used to think we trekkies wove tortuous explanations to cover inconsistencies in the show, until I started reading Fundamentalist nonsense like this. We were amateurs.
So why the two genealogies of Joseph? And since Joseph isn't supposed to be Jesus' father why should we care?
"Since the Bible is inerrant"
That's where I stopped reading. The babble has enough internal contradictions to render that statement laughable.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
And the two different versions of genesis's creation?
And the differen genealogies of Jesus?
And the flaming row between Paul and Peter over their separate understandings of Jesus and what he represented?
And those three are only for starters.
There are none so stupid as those who turn their faces away from the clear and the obvious in favour of some dogma that must be supported regardless of the twists of logic and denial of truth.
Some doctor! Doctor in what?
He keeps fit with those mental gymnastics doesn't he?
If he fell and burst open as a rotting corpse then he wouldn't have DIED from falling. He would have DIED by hanging and any doctor worth his salt would have checked the hyoid bone or, the very least the neck to look for signs of rope marks. Perhaps the broken branch with the attached noose on him/near him would have completed the puzzle.
OK so why did Luke just happen to omit the hanging part? If you read it verbatim, it just says that he fell down and his stomach burst open. If he was corroborating the Matthew story, you'd think he wouldn't have left out an important detail like that. It would be like recounting Lincoln's assassination without mentioning the gunshot.
Since the Bible is inerrant Judas cannot have died by hanging and died by falling and bursting open.
Or conversely, Since Judas died by hanging and by falling and bursting open, the Bible cannot be inerrant.
There is no contradiction surrounding Judas’ death; rather, merely two descriptions given by two different authors of the same event.
Ad hoc hypothesis: the addition of extraneous hypotheses to a theory to save it from being falsified, such as the old "he hanged himself and the body rotted and fell off and burst"
The "body rotted" hypothesis is ridiculous. Bloating takes at least four days. The Jews would never have left a dead body hanging for four days. Their tradition has great respect for the dead and a requirement to bury as soon as practical.
What the good doctor is engaged here is known as "polishing a turd". It may be shiny but it is still a turd. The story is fiction culled from two different writers, neither Matthew nor Luke, and later combined into the Bible with poor editing, leaving the disparity.
A good editor, say God, would have done a better job of having all the contradictions removed.
Proof of the Bible's human, not divine, origins but you can't tell that to a brain-dead god-bot apologist.
" A cart passes through the muddy road through a village.
A baby cries. People wrestle in the mud. A woman beats a cat.
The cart-master chants wearily as they trudge along:
Bring out your dead!
Bring out your dead!
Bring out your dead! etc. while beating occasionally on a large
triangle with a wooden spoon.
As each person comes forward with his or her dead relative, they throw them on
the cart. He holds out his hand and they pay.
Bring out your dead!
A man comes out with a dead-looking old man in a nightshirst slung over his
shoulder. He starts to put the old man on the cart.
Man: Here's one-
Cart-master: Ninepence.
Old Man: (feebly) I'm not dead!
Cart-master: (suprised) What?
Man: Nothing! Here's your ninepence....
Old Man: I'm not dead!
Cart-master: 'Ere! 'E says 'e's not dead!
Man: Yes he is.
Old Man: I'm not!
Cart-master: 'E isn't?
Man: Well... he will be soon-- he's very ill...
Old Man: I'm getting better!
Man: No you're not, you'll be stone dead in a moment.
Cart-master: I can't take 'im like that! It's against regulations!
Old Man: I don't want to go on the cart....
Man: Oh, don't be such a baby.
Cart-master: I can't take 'im....
Old Man: I feel fine!
Man: Well, do us a favor...
Cart-master: I can't!
Man: Can you hang around a couple of minutes? He won't be long...
Cart-master: No, gotta get to Robinson's, they lost nine today.
Man: Well, when's your next round?
Cart-master: Thursday.
Old Man: I think I'll go for a walk....
Man: You're not fooling anyone, you know--
(to Cart-master) Look, isn't there something you can do...?
(they both look around)
Old Man: I feel happy! I feel happy!
(the Cart-master deals the old man a swift blow to the head with his wooden
spoon. The old man goes limp.)
Man: (throwing the old man onto the cart) Ah. thanks very much.
Cart-master: Not at all. See you on Thursday!
Man: Right! All right...."
Hanging and falling look very different; the current theory is that there were two different Judases. And going by your idea about the hot sun and all, bloating only occurs when the person is dead and has been for a while, so Judas died from hanging. Even a person living at the time would be able to tell the different between a recently dead body and one that was bloated and dead for a while (bloating is often accompanied by discolouration of the skin and, if there'd been any flies buzzing around, much of his face would have been eaten away by maggots. This is the kind of stuff you learn when you go beyond learning about forensics from TV.)
And the coroner will say that the person died of blunt force trauma and probably internal hemorraging caused by getting hit by a car.
Actually, all of these so-called inconsistencies can be explained by the fact that Judas had a time machine. He kept going back to "fix" the event that made him so reviled. Since it was Gawd's will, no change he made could significantly alter the event, but the outcome was slightly and insignificantly different each time. According to one of the apocryphal versions by Mark's retarded brother Smeguel, Judas died by slicing himself in half when he deliberately slid down the edge of the Great Pyramid.
If you're going to make up bullshit, at least try to be imaginative.
Ok, the day you wear a blouse which is black and white at the same time, let us know. Or when you eat a steak which is cold and warm at the same time, depending on your point of view.
Georgia is obviously a stupid douchebag.
I love how these fundies have these intense, detailed discussions as if it were like science when there is no evidence at all for their positions. Cracks me up.
Pio Jesu Domine, dona eis requiem *THWACK*
But srsly, the ghostwriters who contributed to the NT never checked their stories.
Because a doctor wouldn't be able to recognize the rope burns on the neck or the snap in the neck...or the rope.
Other than that all I got is "The Bible is the inerrant word of God, it is just incomplete".
So wait, those two accounts contradict each other, but since the bible is non-contradictory, it doesn't contradict? These aren't mental gymnastics anymore, these are the mental fuckin' olympics.
If Judas had been hanging until he rotted and became bloated, why did they call his field the "field of blood"? There wouldn't have been any blood shed from his body by the time it had bloated and fell. It would have settled in his legs and coagulated in the capillaries. "Field of Blood" implies that he was alive when he burst open.
Hey Doc, when a body becomes bloated from gasses of decomposition, that means they guy is dead.
Also, in a car accident, the coronor's report would determine cause of death, not your account of it.
Except, that is not what the accounts say. One account makes it "clear" that hanging killed him. The other account makes it "clear" that his guts spilling out (presumably after he fell/tripped) killed him. Neither account indicates one is simply a further explanation of the other. Furthermore, "Matthew" and "Luke" were likely not written by anyone with those names and they were not written by anyone that witnessed the alleged events. These names were assigned in the 4th or 6th century. ..... Gotta love that fundy logic.
I got an apologetic explanation for you, and it's a simple one.
The early Christian writers despised Judas just so much, that they just had to kill him in the most grisly manner possible....
TWICE!
They've got all sorts of laughable "explanations" for all the contradictions in the bible. You know, if half the effort people put into trying to prove the bible was inerrant was put into something useful for the world, we'd probably be on the verge of having those flying cars.
So the events of the Bible can not be relied upon to have actually happened as they are portrayed in the scriptures unless there are two different people, at the least, giving their differing viewpoints. So when there is only one viewpoint, we can infer that much detail is being omitted or events are being inaccurately reported. So the overall conclusion we can draw is that Bible is highly inaccurate and must be taken with a pinch of salt.
He's technically right, with the decomp theory. I mean, I could see this happening, you know?
But still... who gives a shit, it's a book of myths!
So he was hanging long enough for his skin to begin decomposing and to bloat but not long enough to die from hanging? If Luke is correct that he died from the fall then he would have to have been up there long enough for these things to happen. However, the decomposition and bloating could not have happened unless he was dead. Soooooo....
To tell the truth, this is actually kind of likely. More likely then the same man being killed twice.
Though isn't it possible the books are referring to the deaths of the apostles Judas AND Thomas (Whose first name was Judas as well).
So, God told one person to write one account-which is inerrant, while telling the other person to write a completely different account, which is also inerrant.
Do I have this right?
Nice piece of sophistry, "Dr. Georgia Purdom". Should you need more material, you may sharpen your skills at more than 450 other contradictions in the bible:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_name.html
Good luck. I'd be really interested in your explanation whether humans were created before animals (Genesis 2:18-19) or after the animals (Genesis 1:25-27). But as the bible is inerrant (*cough*), I'm sure you will find an explanation.
"Since the Bible is inerrant"...
Aahhh, that wonderful rock, to which the most stubbornly deluded cling to.
Apparently the Koran is inerrant too. And it's different from the Bible.
The only books I can trust to be inerrant are my own personal diaries. And even then sometimes I can't really be 100% sure...
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
To post a comment, you'll need to Sign in or Register . Making an account also allows you to claim credit for submitting quotes, and to vote on quotes and comments. You don't even need to give us your email address.