Court: Christian school can expel lesbian students
RIVERSIDE, Calif. – A California appeals court has ruled that a Christian high school can expel students because of an alleged lesbian relationship.
The 4th District Court of Appeal in Riverside on Monday upheld California Lutheran High School's right as a private, religious organization to exclude students based on sexual orientation.
Two girls sued claiming they were discriminated against after they were expelled from the Wildomar school in 2005. A lower court said the school isn't bound by the same anti-discrimination laws as a business establishment.
John McKay, attorney for California Lutheran, says the school's goal is to educate based on Christian principles.
The attorney for the girls could not be immediately reached Tuesday.
61 comments
Even though I'm bisexual, it is their school, and as a religious organization, they have a right to enforce those rules, even though we may disagree with them, and think they are bigots.
I agree with necrofest: Their school, play by their rules.
Really the school is within it's rights here, it is a private christian school. I wouldn't want to see the courts force them to accept students they feel don't meet thier qualifications.
It is sad and somewhat bigoted, but that is still the world we live in. Perhaps someday this kind of action will not be required or seen as other than what it is, stupid.
Hey, I see both sides to the story. The rules are stupid and don't really have any valid justification. But, it is a private school, their rules. As "Christian principles", I do however see those rules to be rather backward and discriminatory.
You know what girls, you're probably better off. Good luck to you, whatever happens.
This would be disturbing if it were a public school, but as a private school, this is entirely within their rights.
and I say this as a lesbian.
"right as a private, religious organization"
Yep. The US guarantees the right to private douchebaggetry. We're cool like that.
Horrible, but they're within their rights.
Why would you want to go there and give them your business? Tell them to go to hell.
Funnyguts - Somehow I doubt that the two students chose to be in this school.
I agree.
I attended religious and public schools, and as far as education goes, the public schools were better - which is saying a lot, considering I'm from DC. I say tell them to kiss your ass, collect what little losses you may have, and move on and try to lead productive lives. :) I'm sure Jesus is proud of that school for understanding, acceptance, and love.
Ok, I don't think anyone is apologizing for this school here. We're just acknowledging that this isn't all that "fundy" per se. It just seems like typical religious stupidity. The kids weren't bad students. They were lesbians. So because they kissed girl lips to girl lips they get expelled. It's stupid. It's backwards. It's a view that belongs in the early bronze age with the writings of the Bible. That said, this is what a christian school is for. I'm glad they're allowed to do this. It lets me know who the quacks are.
We're just acknowledging that this isn't all that "fundy" per se... It's stupid. It's backwards. It's a view that belongs in the early bronze age with the writings of the Bible.
Um, Joe-Bob... that sounds pretty "fundy" to me...
@938646
My definition of a fundy is someone agitating for what they shouldn't/can't be allowed to do. Someone saying homosexuals should be criminals is fundy. Someone blathering on about how they're taking their atheist kid to psychiatrists because of the child's atheism--that's fundy.
Generally being stupid doesn't quite cut it for me. At least not on a website for fundies saying the darndest things. This is more standard, generic, run of the mill fundy.
There's a certain amount of stupid you have to tolerate in society. This doesn't cross the line.
Super crappy, but if a religious private school wasn't allowed to expel the girls, Christians would feel REALLY under attack, and that whole "forcing their sexuality on us" would get more traction.
Hell, they probably got kicked out for the same reason they were sent there.
So... essentially what everyone else has said.
I went to all-boys catholic schools during my formative years and I came out a mess. Fortunately, university education and hot coeds saved me.
There is hope for these two girls.
Play by their rules, my ass.
Where I live, discrimination is not allowed anywhere. If a school is in my country it is bound by the legislation of my country. Discrimination based on sexual preferences is illegal, therefore it's obviously illegal in the schools as well.
Anything else would be to accept discrimination.
That's the thing, though; from my limited understanding of the story, the girls were expelled for a *perceived* lesbian relationship.
The school may have been within their rights legally, but they were way out of line ethically and morally. Unfortunately, the only thing that can be done at the moment is attempt to educate people and hope that within a generation this bullshit will have (mostly) died out.
John McKay, attorney for California Lutheran, says the school's goal is to educate based on Christian principles
And refusing to have dealings with anyone who's from a minority is just what Jesus would have done.
Although this is fundie, it's within their legal rights. Or do you believe that the new Milk school in San Francisco should allow gay bashers?
Who knows, maybe they just did it to get the hell out of the school.
To those complaining about the policy, I have to ask if you would force others to associate with those that they don't agree with.
In our system we have public schools. Public education is a right, up to a point. One cannot be arbitrarily expelled from a public school. A private institution (like this christian school) has state oversight in that it must conform to certain minimum curriculum standards and the like, but it is an essentially private institution. The people who run it can choose to associate, or not associate, with whomever they wish. There is no right to attend a private school.
Would you really force a private institution to enforce a policy with which they don't agree? I too agree their policy is pathetic and stupid, but they have the right to be idiots. Better to let the idiots self-select.
"The price of freedom is the acceptance of stupidity"
I'm so going to have to quote that someday. :D
I have nothing to say that no one else has said already.
Would you really force a private institution to enforce a policy with which they don't agree?
Yep, I would. In fact, it has happened already, even in the US. And so it should. Unless you'd like to allow shops and restuarants to refuse to serve black people again?
@Psittacosis
The difference is that private schools are always alternatives to what most people do. You can't buy your groceries from the government, so you depend on private institutions.
Also, think about it in terms of overall effect. These two girls stay, they're resented by large swathes of faculty and students, tensions rise, the girls do worse in school because of their growing insecurity, and meanwhile the school becomes resentful of everyone else involved. It may not be completely fair, but these girls going to public school is worlds better than them staying there.
"The difference is that private schools are always alternatives to what most people do. You can't buy your groceries from the government, so you depend on private institutions."
Rated 5.
That legally they are allowed to be this fundie is a poor reflection on the courts, not a free pass for the school.
Yeah, i know, its their school, their rules.
So, just a question..can they discriminate on race as well? They can obviously discriminate on first amendment rules.
LOLWUT, when it's perpetuated by a private organization, yes, discrimination is legal as long as it's not in the form of housing, lending practices, or employment.
A few years back, the Boy Scouts were sued by a scout master who was stripped of his scouting titles because he is gay. The US Supreme Court ruled that the Boy Scouts have the right to do that. (They've also done the same thing to atheists and others who simply refuse to pledge to a higher, supernatural power...)
In response to this, the City of Philadelphia (PA) revoked a gentlemen's agreement they had with the Scouts, where they had been using city-owned offices at a ridiculously low rent. The city basically said that the Scouts should either pay fair market value for the use of the office space, or revoke their policy of discrimination against gays and atheists.
The scouts refused and moved out of the offices. They got no sympathy from me of that, as I don't consider either of the City's options to be all THAT unreasonable.
In the aftermath, I've started calling the Boy Scouts, like the Salvation Army, a hate group.
So, wait...if there was a Klu Klux Klan school, they could refuse to let black kids in?
Legal or not, neither of those cases seem right.
If it is a private school, they're within their rights to expel whoever they want for whatever reason they want. It's douchebaggy, but they do have the right to do so.
As for whether this should still be legal, that's a whole separate discussion.
Are there are any laws against discrimination based upon sexual preferences in California? If so, it should not matter that it is a private school, it still will have to obey the laws of the state.
Why is this a problem at all? Because of a horrible legal system and crappy laws! So people would be cool if the school demanded each student to be branded with a cross at he start of the school year too? Would it be Ok to kick someone out for being black?
This country is a fucking third world society!
People, in essence, suck.
Also, maybe someone can explain:
While I believe in freedom of expressive association, it's fundy that they would choose to exercise it in this manner. Also, I can imagine the howls of outrage from fundies if the shoe were on the other foot.
A school that doesn't take public funds can admit or not admit anyone they want. Christians schools don't have to admit gay students.
And that one huge school in Hawaii doesn't have to take anyone who isn't at least 1/8 Hawaiian.
While I understand the reasoning behind it, I'd be curious to see the reaction of Christians if someone started a school for gay atheists that refused to admit straight Christians.
Besides which, given the company that the gospels describe Jesus as having kept, I highly doubt that expulsion is what Jesus would have done.
If the school had, say, refused to admit a kid because they were black (and cited religious reasons as though that were reason enough), this would be rated an outright five.
In any case, while the school is within their right to do this, I don't see why it's rated so low. Discrimination on basis of sexual orientation for biblical reasons is definitively fundy.
[John McKay, attorney for California Lutheran, says the school's goal is to educate based on Christian principles. ]
Christian principles my fat ass.
Not fundie, just following their religious beliefs. You go to the PRIVATE school, you follow the PRIVATE school's rules. The girls should have been expelled for their behavior... and I'm a gay man saying this.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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