[Parents who still send their children to statist indoctrination camps when home- and private schooling are still legal options have no excuse.]
Agreed, yet so many Christian parents think God's call to be salt and light means to toss our tender children out into government schools to be salt and light to their teachers and peers. When we turn them over to Caesar, they are more often than not conformed to the world's ways, and not God's ways.
I've seen many parents who see something sweet, self-assured, thoughtful, inquisitive, and polite in homeschooled children, including my own, and question if homeschooling might be something they should consider. But I've NEVER seen homeschooling parents look at the fruits of government schooled children and say, "Yes, that's the way I should be raising and educating my kids!"
39 comments
My sister-in-law sends her kids to a Christian school. Her son was struggling with 8th grade math that my daughter learned in fourth grade at public school and had to tutor him because the teacher sucked. So not only was the curriculum four years behind, the teaching staff didn't even teach it.
@Matante, I have to take a slight exception to your comment. The boy mentioned above is an asshole (yes, I know he's my nephew), and even excepting for my parental bias, my public school attending child is far more polite and considerate. That is not to say that public school kids aren't often rude, but home/Christian school kids can be just as rude.
She has a point; properly sociabilised children are somewhat more rude than sheltered ones. Not that they're worse, but seeing how the world works encourages one to challenge authority.
Would that be because you only know homeschooling parents who want to brainwash their kids 24-7? I think so.
Seriously, while there's nothing wrong with homeschooling as long as there are standards, too many of these people want to educate their own kids for all the wrong reasons.
" When we turn them over to Caesar, they are more often than not conformed to the world's ways, and not God's ways. "
I've seen many parents with sweet, self-assured, thoughtful, inquisitive, and polite children taught in public school. And I've seen the children of fundies who've had to get away from their home towns to escape the infantilizing grip of narrow-minded indoctrination.
@UHM
That's what dominionism is all about; replacing stable democracy with theocracy is the whole point.
I still occasionally take teaching work in emergencies. A year or so ago, the Super of a nearby Christian School asked if I was interested in a temporary stint at his school on an emergency basis.
It turned out that due to an absolutely crappy canned curriculum they got from some place in California, they hadn't covered stuff like the metric system (godless and invented by the French Revolution), any biology later than 1700, world history and any math beyond 8th Grade. As a result, they were days away from loosing their state accreditation.
For the sake of the kids, I agreed to do a quicky four-week/1.5 hour a day/10 students per class course on the metric system and algebra. First class, I was dumbfounded to learn most of the kids thought our numerical system was base ten because God wanted it that way! They really freaked when I told them, no, it's because humans have ten fingers!
As far as I know, that school passed their accreditation review, and I learned one thing: anyone who sends their children to a Christian School is guilty of child neglect.
Perhaps my experience was odd, but I had a fantastic educational experience in Catholic school. My favorite English teacher was an ancient Irish Nun, while the biology teacher I strove to impress was a Muslim woman. As well, my circle of friends was a batch of filthy-minded delinquents, and my best friend was a D&D-playing Pagan.
But of course, Cathlics aren't Christian, so even with once a week of required church attendance, it doesn't count, right?
"But I've NEVER seen homeschooling parents look at the fruits of government schooled children and say, "Yes, that's the way I should be raising and educating my kids!"
Which is why theirs - who went to actual schools, and not 'Kitchen High' - are in front of the counter, as opposed to those saying 'Would you like fries with that?' behind such
...still, McDonald's, Burger King, KFC, Pizza Hut, Taco Bell et al are always needing monkeys to pay peanuts to, whilst those non -'Hoemskuled' people deign to bring their custom to such places, they being the charitable sort , I guess. [/Doug Piranha-levels of sarcasm. And Patronisation ]
A British state education, which encourages & promotes Thinking For Yourself above all else. Hasn't done me any harm whatsoever.
@Gabriel LaVedier
So true: to most of the Christian School types, Catholics are not Christians ("they've got idols, and they pray to the Saints and they think the Pope is like God").
On the other hand, Catholic Schools are pretty good by secular school standards, especially when taught be civilians. Priest and nun teachers? Heard too many really bad stories.
I see two kinds of homeschool kids come through my classes. One kind is homeschooled because the local schools are inadequate or failing and the high-performing parents want more for their children. The other kind are homeschooled because the parents are religious zealots and object to actual science, literature, and history curriculums.
The first type are typically high achieving, self motivated learner a functioning several grades in advance of their peers. The latter generally require massive remedial work in even the most basic subjects to even be considered at grade level.
You tell me which is working.
Public school has issues, for sure. They don't do a good job of making subjects (especially math and science) interesting, they teach some information that's way out of date, and they don't do enough to deter bullying. That said, I'll take public education over "Godly" homechooling any day. For one, I think kids need the socialization. For another, I'd rather they learn outdated information than complete bullshit.
"But I've NEVER seen homeschooling parents look at the fruits of government schooled children and say, 'Yes, that's the way I should be raising and educating my kids!'"
No, the ones you know probably say, "Junior, yew keep away from them fruits! They want to take yer Bible and yer gun away. Lesson 1: Mah truck, sure, mah wife, maybe, mah gun, NEVER! Now git me a light for this here Marlboro and some salt for mah tequila. Here. Read this here cigarette pack while yer walkin'. School's not out yet."
@Old Viking
LOL! Of course not, but after arguing with ten religious teenagers for about an hour about God and the metric system, I wasn't going to blow another hour explaining why the thumb is not a finger. "It says in the Bible we got ten fingers, which God gave us. This thumb stuff, that's just Satan talking!"
I think half the misinformation students get from teachers is due to exasperation: "OK, the Germans won World War II! Can we move on now?!?!" I actually had a kid in literacy class who insisted Switzerland had been invaded andoccupied by the Germans in World War II. Claimed he learned it in primary school.
"I've seen many parents who see something sweet, self-assured, thoughtful, inquisitive, and polite in homeschooled children, including my own"
that's because you're an idiot, your kids are idiots, and the parents that see something sweet in your idiot kids are also idiots.
not that a homeschooled kid is necessarily an idiot, just your homeschooled kid.
@Sangfroid: What. the.FUCKING.Hell?? Jesus Christ, no wonder that school almost lost its accreditation! That malarkey wouldn't fly where I work, and I work in a Catholic school where there are some very devout people. Whatever the flaws, we insist that our students learn actual history and science, the latter in spite of not having a proper lab room.
@Sangfroid: Well, there were plans for Operation Tannenbaum, which would have been a swift occupation and annexation of Switzerland. On the other hand, seeing how well Barbarossa and Seelöwe went, the Germans might well have fouled that one up as well. =D
@Sangfroid
Maybe I got lucky. Sister Nora was a real peach of a teacher. Tough and unrelenting when it came to assignments but that's just was a screwup little snarker like me needed. She actually picked up a little gift for my mother when she took a trip to Ireland, and she genuinely enjoyed the aforementioned Pagan D&D player, because he was clever and had a good sense of humor.
@ Sangfroid : You wrote:
"First class, I was dumbfounded to learn most of the kids thought our numerical system was base ten because God wanted it that way! They really freaked when I told them, no, it's because humans have ten fingers!" Wait'll they learn that the Gumatj of Northern Australia count in base five , and the ancient Babylonians counted in base sixty!
No, wait, scratch that. If they ever find out, they'll avoid base 5 and base 60 as "satanic" numeral systems.
And you actually think that home and private schools are not indoctrination camps? At least in public schools you are introduced to a variety of ideas and people.
Take it from someone who attended private school for 8 years as a child, they definitely attempt to make you conform to their ideals.
As for home schooling, it can be great. It can be great if the parents do not try to force their beliefs and ideals on the child and instead allow them to figure things out on their own. If they do not leave out major parts of science because it offends their ideology then it can be great. A private tutor that teaches a classical education would be ideal.
My fundie aunt home schooled her children and sheltered them throughout their childhoods. Now one of them is 19 and has gone absolutely wild. The other adult is completely lost in the real world and the youngest is heading in the same direction.
A lot of Christian private schools (and even moreso homeschools when taught by people like you) are fundie indoctrination camps. Take it from someone who went to small Christian private schools (no doubt the ones you'd find godly) all his life--if I hadn't always been wanting to learn things, I'd be a good ol' Young Earth Creationist Republican just like your type wants, not an evilutionist leftist atheist.
Didn't God create the world? The world's ways should be the God's way too, surely.
Sure, there might be something sweet, self-assured, thoughtful, inquisitive and polite in some homeschooled children, but I doubt that your own show much of that. Inquisitive means to be curious, to question and doubt everything you hear, which is seldom encouraged in homeschool or private indoctrination camps.
"be salt and light". I'm surprise that the literalists haven't started carrying around salt-encrusted light bulbs.
Home-schooled kids are "thoughtful" and "inquisitive". Just not TOO thoughtful and inquisitive, eh?
I think the American anti-government tradition is admirable, but don't they understand that church government, ecclesiastical government, rule by religious authorities, or even by a traditional paterfamilias, is a kind of government?
Look, there's a right way and a wrong way to homeschool a child. The right way is to actually study how to teach and get a good curriculum that will teach the subjects that a student will need to learn in order to move on to college, as well as giving them the skills that they will require to succeed in life.
The wrong way is to pump your kids full of Christian and right-wing propaganda and claim that it's an education, which I have a sinking feeling is how GTHSBB Momma is "homeschooling" her children.
"I've NEVER seen homeschooling parents look at the fruits of government schooled children and say, "Yes, that's the way I should be raising and educating my kids!"
That's because you've all convinced yourself you're doing the lords work and protecting your children from the world. It's not because those educated in the public system are behaving worse then your sects kids, it's that you think they're forever tainted by the "worldly" influence. It's a prejudice some preachers planted in your head.
When one of your home-schooled lot goes bad you drop them from your mindset as an abiration,falling into a bad (secular)crowd or the ultimate stupidity of a demon possessing them.
When a public educated kid down the block goes bad you use them as an example of all others, you never notice the good kids, the industrious, productive."self-assured, thoughtful, inquisitive, and polite" kids that'll be your kids bosses.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
To post a comment, you'll need to Sign in or Register . Making an account also allows you to claim credit for submitting quotes, and to vote on quotes and comments. You don't even need to give us your email address.
