jdhowes #fundie

jdhowes #fundie livescience.com

Has anyone noted how open Creationist / "Creation" Scientists are to open debates in public forums, in scientific circles and schools? Whereas, Evolutionists / "Evolutionary" Scientists seem to avoid these forums whenever possible? Instead of being champions of "Free Thought" like Creationist demonstrate over and over... Evolutionists resort to insulting, marginalizing, undermining and restricting "Free Thought" that oppose them - Why? If they are right about this topic, why don't they seize each & every opportunity to prove it?

[NOTE: It is equally wrong for any religion to "force" or "shame" a belief system (i.e. like Creationism) on anyone. It violates an individual's God-given right to "Self-determination" and "Choice."]

And if Creationists are so wrong... then why are they so willing to talk out in the open; invite debate & discussion on such a foolish belief? People on the losing end of ANY debate (i.e. lacking facts, evidence, commonsense, stats...etc) AVOID open debates... seek to control what others believe... belittle non-conformists ...and... ahhh... hmmm... these sounds of 'retreat' sound more like strategy used by the all knowing Evolutionists... -interesting.

-You decide...

67 comments

old comment by David B.

"Instead of being champions of "Free Thought" like Creationist demonstrate over and over... Evolutionists resort to insulting, marginalizing, undermining and restricting "Free Thought" that oppose them - Why?"

Public debates are not "free thought" but "free speech", as such creationists are at liberty to lie, distort and dissemble, engage in every kind of fallacy, and play to the gallery with oratory, polemic and rhetoric.

None of this is conducive to arriving at the right answer, discovering the truth or proving a position. Which is exactly why creationists are so eager to use this forum, and so loathe to submit their "science" to peer review, where none of their tactics of evading close scrutiny of their arguments would be effective.

Reality is not decided by a popular vote, however much creationists wish it to be.

old comment by Eden

I remember at least one biologist who repeatedly talk to a creationist (AFAIK the creationist was even Kent Hovind, not sure about this, though).
The Biologist (lets call him B.) would go into the lectures of the Creationist (lets call him C. :D ) and would ask C. questions. After a short debate, C. usually would admit that he was wrong on several points in his lecture and wouold admit that B. was right.
Nevertheless in further lectures C. always repeated the points in which he was disproven as if the debates with B. never had been taken place.
(B. and C. also had contact over eMail, in which they also debated about these issues, with B. repeatedly doisproving points C. made).
After this went on for a few years B. recognized that talking to C. was like talking to a mountain. No matter how often C. agreed that some of his points/beliefs were false, he would always continue to teach (and probably also believe) them. So B. finally quit the contact to C.
I assume such is the behavior you find in many creationists ;)

old comment by breakerslion

"Has anyone noted how open Creationist / "Creation" Scientists are to open debates in public forums, in scientific circles and schools?"

Spouting your nonsense like a broken record is not a debate.

"Whereas, Evolutionists / "Evolutionary" Scientists seem to avoid these forums whenever possible?"

They don't spend their time in a loony bin debating ethics with psychopaths, either. To give you guys a platform is to add an air of legitimacy to what is otherwise known to be bastard science.

"Instead of being champions of "Free Thought" like Creationist demonstrate over and over..."

Oh, so now your Bible-based philosophy is "Free Thought"? That's right up there with claiming that one better believe that 2+2=5 or else, is "free thought".

"Evolutionists resort to insulting, marginalizing, undermining and restricting "Free Thought" that oppose them - Why?"

If you don't want people to make fun of your beliefs, try not believing such ridiculous shit. Asked and answered. Move on.

[NOTE: It is equally wrong for any religion to "force" or "shame" a belief system (i.e. like Creationism) on anyone. It violates an individual's God-given right to "Self-determination" and "Choice."]

Self-evident truth does not equal "God given." Stop trying to give your imaginary friend credit for things that are the purview of human thought and reasoning. Thought you could just slip that in there, didn't you?

"And if Creationists are so wrong... then why are they so willing to talk out in the open; invite debate & discussion on such a foolish belief?"

Because the self-interested and the gullible give them money to do so. Crime pays.

"People on the losing end of ANY debate (i.e. lacking facts, evidence, commonsense, stats...etc) AVOID open debates... seek to control what others believe... belittle non-conformists ...and... ahhh... hmmm... these sounds of 'retreat' sound more like strategy used by the all knowing Evolutionists... -interesting."

Except, your side does not have a pot to piss in when it comes to supporting evidence, so you would rather trot your tent show around and set up straw men to knock down. Much more dramatic and profitable... ah.... Hmmm....

old comment by Panz

"Has anyone noted how open Creationist / "Creation" Scientists are to open debates in public forums, in scientific circles and schools? Whereas, Evolutionists / "Evolutionary" Scientists seem to avoid these forums whenever possible? Instead of being champions of "Free Thought" like Creationist demonstrate over and over... Evolutionists resort to insulting, marginalizing, undermining and restricting "Free Thought" that oppose them - Why? If they are right about this topic, why don't they seize each & every opportunity to prove it? "
Because when they do you shake you head and yell "no no no wrong!" and the thread drops down into creationists tossing up red herrings and insults

"And if Creationists are so wrong... then why are they so willing to talk out in the open; invite debate & discussion on such a foolish belief? People on the losing end of ANY debate (i.e. lacking facts, evidence, commonsense, stats...etc) AVOID open debates... seek to control what others believe... belittle non-conformists ...and... ahhh... hmmm... these sounds of 'retreat' sound more like strategy used by the all knowing Evolutionists... -interesting. "
Because you guys have been proven wrong, thousands of times over and you keep reciting bible quotes, insults and herrings without showing any of those mountains of evidence you claim to have

free thought my ass, we already know what you think, and what you think everyone else should think. There's no debating a fundtard that won't observe facts and logic

old comment by El Guapo

I wouldn't beat up a little kid just because I was invited to, either. Have you ever seen one of these "debates"...the metaphor that comes to mind is "shooting a sparrow with a cannon". The creationists always get their ass kicked if what occurs is truly a debate. I would argue that the most successful fundy debater is that crackpot Kent Hovind, simply because his arguments are so draw-droppingly stupid, his opponents find themselves speechless. That's the best that creationists can do...say something that is so bat-shit insane that rational thought is reduced to shock and awe.

The easiest way to win an argument is to choose the right side.

old comment by

Since when is today opposite day? Either you're extremely fucking deluded, or you've never heard of how 'peer review' works. If you submit fucking stupid shit, it's going to be ripped apart.

WAAAAAA! Scientists don't want to debate me, call a fucking WAAAAAAMBULANCE. Seriously, scientists don't bother debating creationists any more because frankly, your arguments are always the same, stale, made up bullshit. You deliberately misunderstand the facts, and fuck up even basic math. It's been done, people like Kent Hovind have been debated, and they've always failed miserably. The worst part is, the one Hovind debate I saw he somehow filled the audience with his brainless followers. I'm sure the cheering and nodding would look like a win to you, but it was sadly telling of how little people seem to care about actual knowledge...

old comment by Canadiest

It's notable of course that you people won't debate the contradictions or plain wrong things in the Bible.

As to the fact some that have debated (Like Dawkins) have decided it's sending a message of legitimacy of creationism. Giving you people a belief you have actual points and evidence that back your beliefs up when in fact you have nothing but lies and the Bible.

Some have offered point by point debates to creationists on the internet and the creationists always refuse.

They want the five minute runs of as many points they can cram in so theres no way to answer even half of the nonsense. Hitchens still creams them by picking one or two points and thoughouly destroying them.

old comment by Swede

No, we have not noticed any willingness by cretinists to debate openly about science. We have noticed them spouting nonsense and buzzwords, pushing their religion onto others, refusing to provide any evidence.

Evolution has the evidence, the peer-review, the theory. Creationism needs to have all this before it's any use starting the debate, dearie.
Science is not a popularity contest. Either there is evidence, or there isn't.

People who HAVE debated (or rather tried to debate) with cretinists in the past are unwilling to do so again. The cretinists are like pigeons playing chess; they knock the pieces over, crap all over the board and declare themselves the winners.

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jdhowes #fundie livescience.com

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