Kenthovindiscool #fundie

Kenthovindiscool #fundie thewaythetruth.com

I will now prove the existence of God. When you think about how the universe got here, you find that there are only 3 possibilities
1) It always existed
2) it created it self from nothing
3) God created it
The first choice is stupid because that would mean time always existed and if time always existed, that would mean the universe would have to go through an infinite amount of time to get to this period in time, and that is simply not possible. The second choice is stupid because it goes against the first law of thermodynamics. This leaves us with only one feasible choice, God created the heavens and the earth, and you had better figure who he is and what he wants.

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old comment by Doctor Whom

I will now prove the existence of both God and Ur-God. When you think about how God got here, you find that there are only 3 possibilities
1) He always existed
2) He created Himself from nothing
3) Ur-God created Him
The first choice is stupid because that would mean time always existed and if time always existed, that would mean God would have to go through an infinite amount of time to get to this period in time, and that is simply not possible. The second choice is stupid because it goes against the first law of thermodynamics. This leaves us with only one feasible choice, Ur-God created God, and you had better figure who Ur-God is and what he wants.

All hail Ur-God!

Is that a fair summary of your beliefs? What do you mean, no?

old comment by Øyvind

I will now prove the existence of God.

Even if you did prove God created the universe, you're jumping to conclusion if you think this proves He still exists. I can show you a couple of things in Bergen built by people hundreds of years ago, but that doesn't mean they still exist, does it?

When you think about how the universe got here, you find that there are only 3 possibilities

[...]
3) God created it

Really, now, out of all the world's deities and supernatural forces and spirits, Yahweh is the only possible answer? Can you say 'arrogant'?

The first choice is stupid because that would mean time always existed and if time always existed, that would mean the universe would have to go through an infinite amount of time to get to this period in time, and that is simply not possible.

They just don't think, do they? If God always existed, that means He must have gone through an infinite amount of time, too, wouldn't it? So didn't you just render Biblical Creation Taken Literally impossible, at least if we were to follow your 'logic'? And don't give me a pseudo-answer like 'He created time, which didn't exist before Him'. Time is a human construct used to measure the distance chronological between events. It's a measuring tool, and asking who invented it is like asking who invented length and velocity.

old comment by John

When you think about how the universe got here, you find that there are only 3 possibilities:

1) It always existed
2) it created it self from nothing
3) The Flying Spaghetti Monster created it with a touch of His Noodly Appendage.

... and continue with the same proof.

It's called the "cosmological argument". You learn about it in Philosophy 101. Plato, Aristotle and Aquinas had a version. Even if you accept that the universe had a first cause, the first cause doesn't have to be anything remotely like the God of the Bible, so the proof is useless.

I have to admit, at least Kenthovindiscool has managed to state the argument without going on and on like Troy's silly "4-step proof" version.

old comment by Nameless

"1) It always existed"
I would like to point out that if time is merely a feature of the universe (only exists inside it) and the universe itself is outside time, then "always" becomes a tricky concept to apply. The universe simply is.

You could say the universe has always existed, because there has not been a time when it did not exist. The universe was never created or anything like that, because nothing happens without time. It just sits there and doesn't change.

This does not explain why the universe exists, but the religious people haven't been able to produce any solid reasons why a god would exist either and don't even have any evidence it does.

old comment by arcturus

"The first choice is stupid because that would mean time always existed and if time always existed, that would mean the universe would have to go through an infinite amount of time to get to this period in time"

Sounds feasible. Prove the contrary.

"and that is simply not possible."

oh ok.

"The second choice is stupid because it goes against the first law of thermodynamics."

No it doesn't. Although I think you're referring to the 3rd. It doesn't go against that either.

"This leaves us with only one feasible choice, God created the heavens and the earth, and you had better figure who he is and what he wants."

I have a fourth. It was created by a number of pixies. I have a fifth. It was created by a tortoise. I have about a million others.

old comment by David B.

99. At some point in the future we invent time machines, travel back to the beginning of time and - on finding nothing there - use our advanced future science to create the universe we will eventually evolve in.

100. The universe won't expand for ever, but eventually all matter will be sucked into black holes, which will eventually absorb each other until there is just one massive black hole containing all space and time. This will eventually explode creating another 'big bang'.

101. As above, but the final destabilisation of the black hole creates the same big bang (i.e. the sequence is circular).

102. The universe is actually a 4 dimensional 'brane' trapped in a calabi-yau manifold in the 11 dimensional 'bulk'. This brane moves around the manifold in a predictable pattern, occasionally ending up at one of several 'fingers' in the hyperdimensional shape where it is constrained to be very hot and dense. Fortunately, due to its non-zero angular momentum, the universe can't completely collapse into this fateful dead-end and instead rebounds, going through a period of sudden expansion that we would recognise as a 'big bang'.

103. This is all a dream.

104. This is all a computer simulation.

105. ...

old comment by Frank

A universe full of "nothing" actually has a staggering amount of order to it - only one possible state of being (that of nothing at all locations). Since order has an associated energy to it, and energy can be transformed into other kinds of energy (including matter, as E = MC^2), it is entirely possible for an empty universe to become less orderly by creating matter to fill up some of the space.

You can actually watch that happen in real time right now. If you make a sufficiently hard vacuum it will gradually create electrons and even larger particles to fill itself up with very low density disordered crap. Nature abhors a vacuum a whole lot, to the extent that it is capable of creating actual matter to stop having one.

So since we can see little bang events just by creating an empty volume, it really doesn't seem unreasonable that we might have big bang events in the advent of an empty universe. Not only does this not contradict thermodynamics, it is required by thermodynamics.

---

Of course you can now go about your day arguing about the origins of nothing all you want. It is unfortunately an unanswerable question since a universe with nothing in it has nothing in it and thus it is literally impossible for there to be anything observable left over from before even a moment of that empty state. The universe may have been empty for a Planck Time or a trillion years. There's literally no way to know.

old comment by Mister Spak

I will now prove the existence of God's God. When you think about how the God got here, you find that there are only 3 possibilities
1) He always existed
2) He created Him self from nothing
3) God' God created Him
The first choice is stupid because that would mean time always existed and if time always existed, that would mean the universe would have to go through an infinite amount of time to get to this period in time, and that is simply not possible. The second choice is stupid because it goes against the first law of thermodynamics. This leaves us with only one feasible choice, God's God created God and you had better figure who he is and what he wants.

Fixed.

old comment by mindfollower

Or to complete the thought
I) if god created the universe, what created god?
1) he has been there all the time
2) he created out of nothing
3) he had been created by a higher beeing that see I)

same problem with god and the universe, so what's your point? 1) why did he wait so long?, 2) impossible according to your argumentation, 3) if god was created who created the creator?

II) If its highly unplausible that something as complex as our universe and mankind created itself out of nothing. How plausible is it, that a beeing, capable of creating such a complex thing, popped out of nothing?
If it's unlikely that mankind evolved from nothing, it's even more unlikely that god did it the same way.

Thinking a thought to it's end helps avoid ridiculous comments...

old comment by Canadiest

The straight out ignoring of the one true constant: Change. Darwins first clue, everything changes over time.

"1) It always existed"

Yes, but not in this form, it's material has always existed.

"2) it created it self from nothing"

No one in science has ever said that. It was compressed, possibly to a very small space, possibly split dimensionally but never nothing.

"3) God created it"

Which one? Yours is a very recent invention of man, borrowed from older beliefs and therefore the least likely at best.

"you had better figure who he is and what he wants."

Good luck with that one Hovindite, you've never even studied your own and its a certainty you do not live by the Biblical edicts, no one does. And no matter how many times Hovind Inc tells you the laws of thermodynamics violate Earths life and development and that our Sun means nothing, they're still wrong, it's a straight out lie, look them up. This alone proves Hovinds beliefs are bullshit wrapped in stupidity and served with theological soup and word salad.

old comment by

I will now prove Kent Hovind is a fucking idiot. When you think about it, you find that there are only 3 possibilities
1) His stupidity always existed
2) His stupidity created it self from nothing
3) A supernatural magical sky-pixie created his stupidity

The first choice is stupid because that would mean Kent Hovind's immense stupidity always existed and if time always existed, that would mean Kent Hovind would have to go through an infinite amount of time to get to this level of stupidity, and that is simply not possible. The second choice is stupid because it goes against the first law of intelligence. This leaves us with only one feasible choice, a supernatural sky-pixie created this extreme level of idiocy in his own image, and you had better figure who he is and what he wants.

Fixed.

Kenthovindiscool #fundie thewaythetruth.com

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