billpuntonsghost #fundie

billpuntonsghost #fundie iron-bru.co.uk

If there is no God,then there can be no objective standards of right and wrong .
Without God, moral values are either,
1)Expressions of personal taste,or
2)The by-products of socio-biological evolution and conditioning .
In a world without God,who is to say which values and right and which are wrong??
Who is to judge that the values of Adolf Hitler are inferior to those of a Saint?
The concept of morality loses all meaning in a universe without God——..
“To say that something is wrong because—it is forbidden by God(is)—. Perfectly understandable to anyone who believes in a law-giving God.But to say something is wrong —even though no God exists to forbid it,is not understandable—.
The concept of moral obligation is unintelligible apart from the idea of God.The words remain but their meaning is gone.In a world without God,there can Brno objective right and wrong,only our culturally and personally relative,subjective judgements.This means it is impossible to condemn war,oppression,or crime as evil.Nor can one praise brotherhood,equality and love as good.Without God,good and evil do not exist-there is only the bare valueless fact of existence,and there is no one to say you are right or I am wrong.

23 comments

old comment by Senomaros

If there is no God,then there can be no objective standards of right and wrong

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Without God, moral values are either,
1)Expressions of personal taste,or
2)The by-products of socio-biological evolution and conditioning .

Hint: the answer is option 2 (well, that's part of it, anyway).

Too bad you completely ignored that option and that everything following this is you assuming the answer is option 1. Seriously, why even say "moral values could be X" and then not even address X at all? Other than intellectual dishonesty, of course.

But to say something is wrong even though no God exists to forbid it,is not understandable

It's perfectly understandable to any adult who isn't developmentally retarded. But thank you for showing us that you're an immoral person, who behaves well solely to avoid getting punished by an authority figure. That's how small children look at morality. Truly moral people behave well and do good deeds for their own sake. Like #2000363 said, you must be sorely deficient in empathy to be unable to understand this.

Without God,good and evil do not exist

Again, you say that like that's a bad thing. One aspect of religion that I've always hated is its promotion of thinking in absolutes, with black and white morality. It's infantile in it's absurd simplicity, and discourages nuanced and critical thinking, which is critical to properly evaluate the complex and intricate world that we live in.

Thank you for supporting my belief that religion has a tendency to retard moral development.

old comment by RiJayden

The answer is #2, with some things added in (like scientific discoveries), and I'll give an example:

Hundreds of years ago, grown men were not only allowed to sleep with young children(male and female in some areas), they were also allowed, actually encouraged, to marry young girls, and even impregnate them. This was not shunned at all.

Today however, at least in the West, that kind of sex has a new name. Pedophilia, and it's older siblings, ephebephilia and hebephilia, are heavily frowned upon, and heavily charged, because we know children cannot give informed consent to sex, and that sex with adults is physically unhealthy for children's bodies, as well as mentally unhealthy. No god was needed for that, and in fact, most people that did (and still do in some countries) adult/child sex did it per the instructions of their gods and holy books. So science actually improved morals in that case, not religion.

old comment by

If there is no God,then there can be no objective standards of right and wrong

Actually, no. God is not necessary for there to be an objective right and wrong, unless you are using a very diffuse and essentially meaningless definition of 'God'. As it happens, there does not seem to be such a thing as a truly objective right or wrong, but this has nothing to do with the existence of God, or lack thereof.

Without God, moral values are either,
1)Expressions of personal taste,or
2)The by-products of socio-biological evolution and conditioning

Got it almost right on the second try. As an example, most people in the modern west view pederasty as a particularly heinous crime, and morally wrong, worthy of punishment, perhaps to an extreme degree. 2500 years ago, in Greece, though, it was an accepted, and even celebrated, part of life.

In a world without God,who is to say which values and right and which are wrong??
Who is to judge that the values of Adolf Hitler are inferior to those of a Saint?

One of the most concerning and frightening things about Adolph Hitler and the Nazi regime is that they were NOT evil people maliciously consigning the Jews, et al, to the gas chambers just to watch them die. Instead, they were convinced they were doing the right thing by ridding the world of the scourge of the Jewish threat. They put out all the propaganda about the Jews because that's what they believed the Jews were really like (even if the evidence apparantly showed different), and the oppression and killing was just the price that needed to be paid to carry out the great work they'd undertaken. To the Nazis and their supporters, at the time, Hitler was something akin to a saint. Hell, there are some neo-Nazi groups still around now that have the same view.