www.godandscience.org

Rich Deem #fundie godandscience.org

I recently went to a Promise Keepers "Turn the Tide" convention in Anaheim, California. One of the Speakers was Matthew Barnett, the "Senior" Pastor at the Dream Center (an inner city church in South-Central Los Angeles). He was relating some encounters he experienced as he was building his church in a neighborhood that was characterized by gangs, prostitutes, and pimps. One prostitute (who is now a Christian) related the story of her heartache in the big city. She came to Hollywood to become a movie star, but fell into drugs and prostitution. When she became pregnant, she was told to get an abortion, but chose to keep the baby. When her baby was nine months old, the mother's pimp came to find out why she wasn't making as much money as she had been. When he saw the baby, he blamed his reduced income on the baby, pulled out a gun, and shot the baby in the head while being held in her mother's arms. When I heard the story, I totally lost it. How could anybody be so evil? The only rational explanation for such kinds of evil is that there are powerful evil forces working in the lives of those who have completely rejected any absolute basis for morality.

On September 11, 2001, the United States was attacked by terrorists, killing thousands of innocent people. The attack on the United States was about human greed, desire for power, hatred and sinfulness. The idea that "people are basically good" is a humanistic fallacy of monumental proportions. Yes, religion is the surest way to hell. Relationship with God through Jesus Christ is the only answer to manmade religion that preaches hatred and violence.

Rich Deem #fundie godandscience.org

I recently went to a Promise Keepers "Turn the Tide" convention in Anaheim, California. One of the Speakers was Matthew Barnett, the "Senior" Pastor at the Dream Center (an inner city church in South-Central Los Angeles). He was relating some encounters he experienced as he was building his church in a neighborhood that was characterized by gangs, prostitutes, and pimps. One prostitute (who is now a Christian) related the story of her heartache in the big city. She came to Hollywood to become a movie star, but fell into drugs and prostitution. When she became pregnant, she was told to get an abortion, but chose to keep the baby. When her baby was nine months old, the mother's pimp came to find out why she wasn't making as much money as she had been. When he saw the baby, he blamed his reduced income on the baby, pulled out a gun, and shot the baby in the head while being held in her mother's arms. When I heard the story, I totally lost it. How could anybody be so evil? The only rational explanation for such kinds of evil is that there are powerful evil forces working in the lives of those who have completely rejected any absolute basis for morality.

On September 11, 2001, the United States was attacked by terrorists, killing thousands of innocent people. The attack on the United States was about human greed, desire for power, hatred and sinfulness. The idea that "people are basically good" is a humanistic fallacy of monumental proportions. Yes, religion is the surest way to hell. Relationship with God through Jesus Christ is the only answer to manmade religion that preaches hatred and violence.

Rich Deem #fundie godandscience.org

As of this writing, it appears that ~4,000 people lost their lives in the attack on the World Trade Center. While this sounds like a large number of people (and it is the largest loss of life due to single terrorist attack), it represents only a small percentage of the people who could have died in those towers. A total of 50,000 people worked in the World Trade Center towers at the time of the attack. In addition, it was reported that 100,000 people visited the towers every day. This means that at least 90% of everybody in the towers at the time of the attack escaped alive! This sounds like a miracle to me. There are some other remarkable facts to consider. The first tower that was hit stood standing 45 minutes longer than the second tower, allowing more time for those who had no warning to escape. After the attack on the first tower, people in the second tower immediately began to leave, despite the announcement by management that everything was safe and under control. People interviewed later reported that they "felt" that they should leave. Did God communicate to tens of thousands of people to warn them to escape? It seems likely, since people usually listen to and follow the advice of authorities. In watching the crash of the second airliner into the second tower, it seems remarkable that the tower did not collapse immediately. There was a huge explosion that engulfed several floors of the tower at once. Did God miraculously sustain the tower for an additional 30 minutes to allow people to escape? Given these circumstances, it seems likely that God miraculously intervened to limit the death toll in the attack on the World Trade Center towers.

Rich Deem #fundie godandscience.org

Where was God During the World Trade Center Attack?
The goodness of the work of God in this atrocity

Where was God during the terrorist attack on the World Trade Center towers on September 11, 2001? The Christian God is supposed to be both loving and all-powerful. Despite these characteristics, God seems to be unable or unwilling to have prevented this and other evil acts that have been committed in the world. The atheist concludes that either God is not loving or not all-powerful or that God does not exist, because if He did exist, He could stop all the suffering. Although God obviously did not prevent this atrocity, who is to say that He has not prevented others. Believe it or not, there are worse things that terrorists could have done, including exploding a nuclear device in Manhattan. In addition, atheists have not considered all the things God might have done to prevent an even greater loss of life than what occurred during the attack on the World Trade Center. This page will examine some of the more obvious ways that God was working during and following the attacks.

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The third airliner crashed into the Pentagon. However, the side of the building hit was under renovation, limiting the loss of life. If the terrorists had crashed directly into the Pentagon from the original direction of flight (the plane had passed the Pentagon and made a 270 degree turn prior to impact), the loss of life would have been ten times greater. Was God involved in this?

The fourth airliner did not even reach its intended destination (probably the Capitol Building in Washington D.C.). Although God did not bring down this airliner directly, His people were involved in thwarting the attempt at mass destruction. Todd Beamer, a graduate of Wheaton College, a dedicated Christian who taught Sunday School, led a charge against the hijackers who had commandeered flight 93, resulting in the plane crashing into an unpopulated field outside of Pittsburgh. As it turned out, the plane crashed just 2 miles from an elementary school. Was God involved in steering the airliner away from the school?

Has God been involved with the events subsequent to September 11? The attack has turned people from their selfishness to seek God and get involved in helping the victims of the families. The following Sunday, we had standing room only attendance at Sierra Madre Congregational Church, as did nearly every church in the nation. People lined up for hours to donate blood at the Red Cross. The Red Cross had been requesting for more donors for months before this with no success. People, organizations, movie stars, and even websites have banded together to raise funds for relief agencies and the families of the victims. God has been working in the hearts of people to get more involved with each other and helping those who are less fortunate. The shock of this evil atrocity has made people realize that their own petty problems are minor in comparison to the plight of others, and helped people to see how really fortunate they are.

A member of our church choir related a minor miracle that resulted from this attack. Heather and her family were living temporarily in an apartment complex, which, being in Southern California, consisted of many different races and ethnic backgrounds. After the attack, all the Middle eastern children stopped playing outside, and their parents were nowhere to be seen. The Saturday after the attack, Heather and her children knocked on all the doors of the complex and invited the people to a time of prayer near the swimming pool. Many dozens of people showed up, including families with Middle Eastern background. They admitted that they were afraid of reprisals and were staying out of site. They all prayed and shared together - something that would have never happened if the attack had never taken place. The people of that apartment complex are now acting as a family of God, united to help and care about each other.

Where was God in the attack on the World Trade Center? He was there all along!

You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives. (Genesis 50:20)

Rich Deem #fundie godandscience.org

In some instances, God ordered the killing of entire populations, presumably including the killing of babies and children. Isn't God unrighteous in killing these innocent little ones? First of all, the Bible indicates that all people are sinners, including babies, and worthy of judgment. However, the Bible also indicates that children are incapable of making moral choices, so that they are automatically rewarded with heaven. So, in having babies killed, God is actually doing them a favor, since, if they had grown up opposed to God, they would have gone to hell.

Rich Deem #fundie godandscience.org

God has no need to have been created, since He exists either outside time (where cause and effect do not operate) or within multiple dimensions of time (such that there is no beginning of a plane of time). Hence God is eternal, having never been created. Although it is possible that the universe itself is eternal, eliminating the need for its creation, observational evidence contradicts this hypothesis, since the universe began to exist a finite ~13.7 billion years ago. The only possible escape for the atheist is the invention of a kind of super universe, which can never be confirmed experimentally (hence it is metaphysical in nature, and not scientific).

paws #fundie godandscience.org

... scientists see that the Universe appears to be designed, but rather than face the possibility of 'supernatural intervention' as one reasonable explanation, they will spend time and energy thinking up other possibilities specifically so that they can deny the supernatural model. Occam's razor needs to be applied perhaps.

christiansoldier #fundie godandscience.org

Although all athiests think differently and have different morals they all acknowledge the same thing.. that God doesnt exist. So like different donominations of christianity or another religion who may differ on some views they all have the same major doctorines in which they believe or agree upon just as all athiests hold that God does not exsist. So athiesm is a religion it is the great negavtive religion.