[Cavalier, a hypothetical. If a couple choses not to have another child because they won't be able to provide for that child, are they somehow being selfish?}
Yeah, because this is really a huge problem in the developed world.
Here's a more likely hypothetical. A live-in couple decide that the woman should get an abortion so they'll be able to buy a big screen plasma and make the payments for a luxury car. Is anything wrong with this?
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Ok, so they can´t provide the kids with a worth environment, so that they will have a miserable life which will lead them to be marginalised, has it anything to do with a plasma tv?, can´t you see that the money they spend on the operation is going to eat the income so that that plama tv can´t be bought?
I see Cavalier is so sheltered, that he has no idea there are actual poor people in the US (nevermind the rest of the world).
I know the first hypothetical actually occurs all over the place, but the second is just stretching the realm of plausibility.
Is there a reason why these idiots always pick abortion whenever the topic of not having any more children comes around?
Haven't they ever heard of birth control?
When my wife and I chose to stop at two kids, I had a vasectomy. We haven't looked back since.
I guess I'm going to hell for giving all those sperm a dead-end life!
I am amazed at how backwards these people are. A huge problem in the developed world (hell, the entire world) is bringing more people into it, otherwise known as overpopulation.
And "pro-choice" doesn't have anything to do with choosing between a plasma TV and a baby. That makes it sound like "Let's Make a Deal." "Do you want the baby you've already won or will you trade it for what's behind door number one!"
No, actually, there isn't. I'd mu ch rather have a nice car and a big TV than a kid, and really, what I want is what matters when it comes to my body.
So let's see...
Yes, not being able to provide for a child is a problem even in much of the developed world, especially in countries like the US which have marginal or nonexistent safety nets.
As for your second example, yes, it's unbelievably selfish, but it's not the doctor's place to judge.
Here's a hint for Cavalier - there is life outside of Beverly Hills!
And I disagree, Brian, that it's "unbelievably selfish." People have different priorities. Raising a child requires an enormous investment of not only money, but time and energy. What I do think is unbelievably selfish is self-righteous fucks who attempt to ram their beliefs on the moral superiority of childbearing down my child-free throat, especially given the issues with overpopulation and neglected children we already have.
Rahab:
Whoa, whoa, whoa. If I'm reading you correctly you're getting principle (i.e. a child-free lifestyle) confused with expediency (car and TV). It was not explicitly stated in the problem that the couple had chosen to be child-free, only that they chose to terminate the pregnancy because they'd be able to afford a car and a TV without the child care bills. If you don't want to raise kids, that's your choice, and there's no point or reason to condemn someone for that. It's giving up a pregnancy for strictly material (and rather superficial) reasons that's selfish.
And in any case, even if they do have strictly selfish motivations for terminating the pregnancy, it still isn't anyone's business but theirs. One might condemn it, but the couple in question is under no obligation to explain their motives to begin with.
If you don't want to raise kids, that's your choice, and there's no point or reason to condemn someone for that. It's giving up a pregnancy for strictly material (and rather superficial) reasons that's selfish.
I think you're failing to realize to see that a reason a person might not want to have kids is because they want to save cash to buy 'material goods'. I see nothing wrong with that. Materialism is where it's at, baby!
The cost of a VERY high-end plasma TV is about the cost of supporting a child for three months.
Unless they want to buy 72 plasma TVs (yeah, that's a more likey hypothetical right there, isn't it?) the two don't compare.
I was a child not too long ago and we were so impoverished, once I got an onion for dinner. I'm not joking.
Edit: come to think of it, that was under Thatcher, though...
We repeat. An abortion, and many side-costs of the operation, are not particularly affordable for many couples. I would say that it´s cheaper to have a baby, a plasma TV and a car rather than carry out an abortion. Besides, how many people who have had abortions have luxury cars and plasma TV?, I think it belongs, rather, to some of the fringe of the pro-life movement, but that´s because of something called INCOME.
"Here's a more likely hypothetical. A live-in couple decide that the woman should get an abortion so they'll be able to buy a big screen plasma and make the payments for a luxury car. Is anything wrong with this?"
No.
If they want to have a comfortable life while enjoying each others company instead of having a child they dont want, good for them. i would rather that every child is wanted, or at least loved by their parents, not resented.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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